New Member - Crystal & Cooper

Crystal & Cooper

Crystal & Cooper

Member
Hi my name is Crystal and Cooper is my kitty. Wow I'm not sure where to start but I will try to give the cliff note version. Cooper started losing weight and drinking and urinating alot so we took him to the vet. They diagnosed him with diabetes around August of this last year. The vet initially recommended a new drug Senvelgo and said he was a good candidate. We went through a full bottle and things seemed to be going okay. As we started the 2nd bottle he started throwing up more frequent which I now know is DKA. So he was given fluids and since he was still eating he was sent home and placed on Vetsulin. The vet did a ton of tests and never seemed to regulate him. We had the second DKA episode the week right after new years. This one much more serious which resulted in him staying at the emergency vet for 2 days. Not to mention a fortune, but he's my baby. Anyways, he was placed on Prozinc by the emergency vet and our main vet has us doing Freestyle Libre because he gets stressed out and isn't the easiest patient. He isn't a huge fan of the shots but my husband and I have managed to be consistent with 12hr apart shots. We haven't tried testing his glucose through his ear yet because as I mentioned before not a good patient. He's such a sweet boy but I think at this point over getting poked and I really don't want to add the stress. Hoping this forum can bring some insight and recommendations to this super stressed cat mom.
 
Hello and welcome. Sounds like you and Cooper have been through a lot. :bighug:. We've unfortunately heard a few people start their cats on the drug and get ketones or DKA and had to switch to insulin. Prozinc is a good insulin for cats. We also have a number of people using the Libre, which can be a good tool. Eventually you'll want to learn how to to the blood test as the Libre isn't always reliable in lower blood glucose (BG) numbers, but it's a good way to start.

What food specifically is Cooper eating now?

There are things we can help you with, what are your main concerns?
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome. Sounds like you and Cooper have been through a lot. :bighug:. We've unfortunately heard a few people start their cats on the drug and get ketones or DKA and had to switch to insulin. Prozinc is a good insulin for cats. We also have a number of people using the Libre, which can be a good tool. Eventually you'll want to learn how to to the blood test as the Libre isn't always reliable in lower blood glucose (BG) numbers, but it's a good way to start.

What food specifically is Cooper eating now?

There are things we can help you with, what are your main concerns?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the warm welcome. He's currently on half a can of Blue Buffalo Tastefuls Pate every 12hrs before his shot (he probably eats more then half because his brother leaves part of his wet food).We do have some dry food out as well but he's mainly interested in the wet food. I wanted to change his diet since all the tests done at the emergency vet said the only thing they saw was inflamed intestines. My primary vet said not to change his diet right now as we try to regulate him. He's currently only only 2 units right now of Prozinc and for the last seven days pretty much had high reading on the Libre with hardly any dips. They had us up the dose after 1 day of the Libre bringing it to the 2 units. I think tomorrow will be day 7. Just wanted to see how often we should be adjusting his dose if no change in readings. Also, wanted to see if there is recommendations on test strips for urine testing (I've read alot of bad reviews). I know the best thing to do would be to test with a monitor but trying to not overly stress him out since doing shots twice a day can be challenging already. Either that or we still haven't mastered giving him shots without him noticing.
 
Crystal & Cooper said:
Just wanted to see how often we should be adjusting his dose if no change in readings
Click to expand...
It depends on the dosing you want to follow, each one will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed Here is the link so you can decide which one you want to follow and then add it to your signature
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Here is the link so you can read all the yellow stickys for Prozinc
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

We adjust the doses by 0. 25 units at a time
Do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markings?
Would you like to set up our spreadsheet where we track our cats BG numbers . I will give you the link

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

How to use the spreadsheet
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/
 
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If you can let us take a look at the blood sugar results you are seeing, we'll be able to help you with the dosing questions. Most of us keep our blood sugar data in spreadsheets, details on how to do that in this link:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

We make changes to insulin doses typically by 0.25 units at a time. We use syringes with 1/2 unit markings and eye ball the difference.

I used Ketostix for urine testing, Neko wasn't shy in the litter box and pretty predictable when she went so we just followed her into the room with the litter box. For some strange reason, she liked to pee when we came home from our morning workout. :p
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
It depends on the dosing you want to follow, each one will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed Here is the link so you can decide which one you want to follow and then add it to your signature
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Here is the link so you can read all the yellow stickys for Prozinc
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

We adjust the doses by 0. 25 units at a time
Do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markings?
Would you like to set up our spreadsheet where we track our cats BG numbers . I will give you the link

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

How to use the spreadsheet
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the information. We are currently following the vets advice. I did go through the article about dosing, sorry some of it still seem greek to me. They talk about dosing in 3-6 cycles. Is that days, weeks? We are using the U-40 syringes - they are numbered 1-12 with the half marking.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you can let us take a look at the blood sugar results you are seeing, we'll be able to help you with the dosing questions. Most of us keep our blood sugar data in spreadsheets, details on how to do that in this link:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

We make changes to insulin doses typically by 0.25 units at a time. We use syringes with 1/2 unit markings and eye ball the difference.

I used Ketostix for urine testing, Neko wasn't shy in the litter box and pretty predictable when she went so we just followed her into the room with the litter box. For some strange reason, she liked to pee when we came home from our morning workout. :p
Click to expand...
Yes, I will upload his information once I figure out how. It's giving me error message. Thanks for the recommendation on the urine stick. Did you just try to get it when he was urinating? Or have the special litter you can get the sample from. Just trying to figure out what to do. Sorry for any stupid questions.
 
Crystal & Cooper said:
Thanks for all the information. We are currently following the vets advice. I did go through the article about dosing, sorry some of it still seem greek to me. They talk about dosing in 3-6 cycles. Is that days, weeks? We are using the U-40 syringes - they are numbered 1-12 with the half marking.
Click to expand...
3-6 cycles 6 cycles means 3 days. 3 cycles means one full day AM and PM then the next day AM only this means 3 cycles
About the U-40 syringes with half unit markings these are the ones you should be using . Give me a minute
UltiCare VetRX U-40 Pet Insulin syringes





https://www.chewy.com/ulticare-vetrx-insulin-syringes-u-40/dp/206319?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=13246986432&utm_content=126424336207&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAy8K8BhCZARIsAKJ8sfQsUdB6O9cvfwdZashc3DId_zXzBDPl8SpFu3pEkpY2EHhGmam-MgAaArYTEALw_w


Or Amazon , they will show you the picture of the box
https://a.co/d/hpt5EKz



 
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Neko had arthritis, so didn't squat all the way down. I just stuck a urine stick in her stream. Some people use a long handled spoon and stick it under. Here is a video on it:
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
3-6 cycles 6 cycles means 3 days. 3 cycles means one full day AM and PM then the next day AM only this means 3 cycles
About the U-40 syringes with half unit markings these are the ones you should be using . Give me a minute
UltiCare VetRX U-40 Pet Insulin syringes





https://www.chewy.com/ulticare-vetrx-insulin-syringes-u-40/dp/206319?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=13246986432&utm_content=126424336207&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAy8K8BhCZARIsAKJ8sfQsUdB6O9cvfwdZashc3DId_zXzBDPl8SpFu3pEkpY2EHhGmam-MgAaArYTEALw_w


Or Amazon , they will show you the picture of the box
https://a.co/d/hpt5EKz
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification. So if the vet is going with the Slow and Low method after 7 days with the Libre they should in theory have enough information to adjust his insulin again? My biggest fear is him DKA again. Maybe I'm being impatient with the vet but have not had the best experience so far. I just want to make sure I'm doing the best for my baby. It is a struggle sometimes to even give him his insulin so I don't know if he will tolerate getting his ear poked. I know that's what everyone recommends. Hoping the urine testing will be sufficient for now.
 
Crystal & Cooper said:
Thanks for the clarification. So if the vet is going with the Slow and Low method after 7 days with the Libre they should in theory have enough information to adjust his insulin again? My biggest fear is him DKA again. Maybe I'm being impatient with the vet but have not had the best experience so far. I just want to make sure I'm doing the best for my baby. It is a struggle sometimes to even give him his insulin so I don't know if he will tolerate getting his ear poked. I know that's what everyone recommends. Hoping the urine testing will be sufficient for now.
Click to expand...

Tagging some experienced members for you
Crystal is referring to the SLGS method.
Cooper had 2 DKA episodes which she noted in her signature
@Wendy&Neko
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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Crystal & Cooper said:
Yes, I will upload his information once I figure out how. It's giving me error message. Thanks for the recommendation on the urine stick. Did you just try to get it when he was urinating? Or have the special litter you can get the sample from. Just trying to figure out what to do. Sorry for any stupid questions.
Click to expand...

Welcome to FDF Crystal is beautiful, and no question is a stupid question and no concern is a small one we are here to help you in your journey to get Crystal regulated, it is overwhelming at first, no doubt, but before you know it you will be a pro at it, if you are feeding too much of the kibble or dry food it will be difficult for Crystals Bg's to go down, diabetic cats need to consume a diet of wet can foods between 0-10% carbs, dry food (kibbles) contain between 18-up to 30 % carbs, it is good you have the Libre for now, but like expressed above they are not very reliable, the sensor tends to stop working before the 14 days, and expensive they fall off, when reading high BGs they only reach up to 365 if lucky, then you will only get a HI reading if lucky and the low BG reading are not accurate if you read 69 it can very sure be in the high 70s so it will be good as Crystal has the Libre you can both get used to the human monitor, and when the Libre stops working, as a back up; most of the members use the ReliOn Premier human monitor and strips, they can be purchased at Walmart, the monitor is $19.99 and the strips ae $9.00 for 50 strips and $17.88 for 100. you do not need much blood on the strip as well,
an easy way to get Crystal interested is to give a treat after testing to relate, you can practice as the libre is still on. My Corky uses ProZinc, don't worry if you do not get the blood right away it takes a bit of tests for the capillaries to swell, and it will much easier, cats are curious, so place all your tool for testing in front of her to investigate,
Is good to feed several meals during the day, 2 Main meals after dosing and 2-3 small meals or snacks in between
you can see how the Spreadsheet work by clicking below on Corky's Spreadsheet and see his feeding schedule by scrolling to the right under remarks, to get an idea; for ProZinc the procedure is: Test, Feed, Shoot, do not give dose on an empty stomach, you do not want to dose without knowing Crystal BG first to avoid HYPO. We are here for you, I will tell you my first lesson; take a step back, breath in, breath out, cats are very sensitive to stress, we stress, they stress and that raises their BG readings
:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
I'm not sure Diane was clear. A cycle is the period between shots. There are 2 cycles per day -- an AM and a PM cycle. So, 6 cycles = 3 days. We base the amount of time a cat is on a particular dose of insulin on the length of time the cat is on a dose and whether the dose is getting your cat's blood glucose numbers into a desirable range.

It will be very helpful if you can get your spreadsheet pulled together. We need to see what Cooper's numbers look like in order to offer any suggestions. We tend to be very numbers driven! Please let us know if you need help getting your spreadsheet set up. I'm tagging Bhooma in case you need help. @Bandit's Mom
 
Would you want to see his Libre numbers since we are not currently testing BG with a monitor. Also, I keep getting an error when I try to upload anything. Unless there is another place to upload the information?
 
CORKY said:
Welcome to FDF Crystal is beautiful, and no question is a stupid question and no concern is a small one we are here to help you in your journey to get Crystal regulated, it is overwhelming at first, no doubt, but before you know it you will be a pro at it, if you are feeding too much of the kibble or dry food it will be difficult for Crystals Bg's to go down, diabetic cats need to consume a diet of wet can foods between 0-10% carbs, dry food (kibbles) contain between 18-up to 30 % carbs, it is good you have the Libre for now, but like expressed above they are not very reliable, the sensor tends to stop working before the 14 days, and expensive they fall off, when reading high BGs they only reach up to 365 if lucky, then you will only get a HI reading if lucky and the low BG reading are not accurate if you read 69 it can very sure be in the high 70s so it will be good as Crystal has the Libre you can both get used to the human monitor, and when the Libre stops working, as a back up; most of the members use the ReliOn Premier human monitor and strips, they can be purchased at Walmart, the monitor is $19.99 and the strips ae $9.00 for 50 strips and $17.88 for 100. you do not need much blood on the strip as well,
an easy way to get Crystal interested is to give a treat after testing to relate, you can practice as the libre is still on. My Corky uses ProZinc, don't worry if you do not get the blood right away it takes a bit of tests for the capillaries to swell, and it will much easier, cats are curious, so place all your tool for testing in front of her to investigate,
Is good to feed several meals during the day, 2 Main meals after dosing and 2-3 small meals or snacks in between
you can see how the Spreadsheet work by clicking below on Corky's Spreadsheet and see his feeding schedule by scrolling to the right under remarks, to get an idea; for ProZinc the procedure is: Test, Feed, Shoot, do not give dose on an empty stomach, you do not want to dose without knowing Crystal BG first to avoid HYPO. We are here for you, I will tell you my first lesson; take a step back, breath in, breath out, cats are very sensitive to stress, we stress, they stress and that raises their BG readings
:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the information. If I'm not home during the day, what would you recommend as a snack for him if not leaving out a little bit of dry food? I know they have automated feeders out there, so not sure if that's how people manage it. But not sure what would be good snacks for diabetics. Any recommendations? Obviously on weekends no problem giving snacks, it's just hard during the week.
 
Yes, use a programmable timed feeder. You can just put the low carb canned food into it.

Air dried raw food can also be given as a crunchy snack. Some cats may not like it or even recognize it as food, though. Ziwi Peak is one brand and it's pretty expensive for a small bag.
 
squeem3 said:
Yes, use a programmable timed feeder. You can just put the low carb canned food into it.

Air dried raw food can also be given as a crunchy snack. Some cats may not like it or even recognize it as food, though. Ziwi Peak is one brand and it's pretty expensive for a small bag.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to a good wet feeder , there were a couple of new members that purchased them and they were happy with them:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/wet-feeder.293692/
 
some info on auto feeders always add a little water to the wet food. You can set it to open at what times you want to feed Cooper
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
some info on auto feeders always add a little water to the wet food. You can set it to open at what times you want to feed Cooper
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1
Click to expand...
Great job in giving info, I lov you guys, what woul we do withouvyou:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
Crystal & Cooper said:
Would you want to see his Libre numbers since we are not currently testing BG with a monitor. Also, I keep getting an error when I try to upload anything. Unless there is another place to upload the information?
Click to expand...
Yes I'm sure the members here would
Here is the link on how to set up our spreadsheet
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

How to use it
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

In case Bhooma isn't around
 
CORKY said:
Great job in giving info, I lov you guys, what woul we do withouvyou:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
Click to expand...
Any recommendations on wet food? We are currently giving him Blue Buffalo Tastefuls Pate. We split a 5.5oz can between Cooper and another kitty twice a day. I know you mentioned about carbs but I don't see any info on the package or can about carbs. I did get him Nulo freeze dried raw chicken & salmon and he seems to like that as a treat or a little with his wet food.
 
Crystal & Cooper said:
Any idea on how to upload a file? I'm trying to use the upload a file button but it says I don't have permission to view this page or perform this action.
Click to expand...

The upload a file is not working, the only way is to copy paste. here's a new Drs. Food list, the third column contains the Carb %s, there are many brands to use from, most of us members enjoy the Fancy Feast Pates:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
NEW FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
 
Crystal & Cooper said:
Any idea on how to upload a file? I'm trying to use the upload a file button but it says I don't have permission to view this page or perform this action.
Click to expand...


See this thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/uploading-files.241806/

You basically just drag the file wherever it is on your computer right into your FDMB post.

I personally don't add extra water or ice packs when using the timed feeder. Some people like to freeze food into portion sizes and put the frozen chunks into the feeder to slowly defrost.

The Catinfo.org food chart is what many people use to find low carb canned foods. Freeze dried and air dried raw food are also good low carb choices :) The shorter the ingredient list is, the better IMO. If you feed freeze dried raw as meal, you'll need to rehydrate it in water before serving.
 
If Cooper ate his breakfast but threw it up right after. Should we skip his insulin shot?

Update: He ended up coming back and ate again and we were able to give him his shot. Hopefully he just ate to fast the first time. I know the emergency vet said he had inflamed bowels and we did another test and they didn't find anything. They did recommend we give him folic acid.
 
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Crystal & Cooper said:
If Cooper ate his breakfast but threw it up right after. Should we skip his insulin shot?
Click to expand...

Depends on the cat and how he responds to insulin.This is why testing and keeping track of the numbers and random notes like a vomit episode or diarrhea is important :)

Lantus takes a bit of time to work so generally it's ok to give insulin as long as the cat will eat something within the next few hours.

Update: He ended up coming back and ate again and we were able to give him his shot. Hopefully he just ate to fast the first time. I know the emergency vet said he had inflamed bowels and we did another test and they didn't find anything. They did recommend we give him folic acid.
Click to expand...

IBD is common in cats. Here are two web sites with info:

https://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/
https://www.ibdkitties.net/

A biopsy of the intestines is what the vet uses to diagnose IBD. Sometimes an ultrasound is enough to make the diagnosis.

Did the vet say what dosage of folic acid? My cat is on 400 mcg once a day but I can only find 800 mcg tablets at the stores so I just cut a tablet more or less in half. I use store generic brand folic acid. If you buy folic acid online, you may be able to find 200 mcg or 400 mcg tablets if your cat needs a lower dose.
 
Yes, this is what they recommended -
Please give Folate (folic acid) 400mcg (OTC): Give 1/2 tablet (200mcg) by mouth every 24 hours for 4 weeks. We recommend using Nature Made product. Please recheck folate with your family veterinarian in 4 weeks.
My primary vet looked at the test results and said that it was within range and said I didn't need to give to him but said it wouldnt hurt to give him. How do you give the folic acid? Trying to get anything in his mouth is a struggle. Not sure if I crushed it up in his if he would eat it or not.
 
My cat eats anything that fits in his mouth :p The pill cutter I have isn't the best so it mostly crushes the pill instead. I sprinkle the powder into my cat's food, saving any large piece for the next day. A large piece gets hidden into one of the raw nuggets my civvie eats. Folic acid is water soluble so any excess just gets peed out by the cat.

There are pill doughs / masks you can buy. Pill Pockets is one brand but I don't think any of the current varieties are diabetic-friendly. Some people coat pills with butter or hide the pill in soft cheese. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/pilling-your-cat.286477/
 
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