Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
Sounds like a good plan!
NEW MEMBER Cap Needs Your Help / Help with Blood Testing Numbers
- Thread starter Charity & Cap
- Start date
Charity & Cap
Member
What do I do if he doesn't eat anything?
It's already 40 minutes past his regular shot time and he's not hungry / felt nauseated and is hiding under the bed with no desire to eat. I assume no shot for today and one as usual tonight.
The last time he was on a 2.0 dose he started going off his food / not eating / acting sick and that's why we (the vet and I) reduced back to 1.5. So far in the week of this dose he's been sick several times. This morning he actually growled at me.
If we assume he'll never go into remission, would 1.5 be a "safe" dose in general forever?
It's already 40 minutes past his regular shot time and he's not hungry / felt nauseated and is hiding under the bed with no desire to eat. I assume no shot for today and one as usual tonight.
The last time he was on a 2.0 dose he started going off his food / not eating / acting sick and that's why we (the vet and I) reduced back to 1.5. So far in the week of this dose he's been sick several times. This morning he actually growled at me.
If we assume he'll never go into remission, would 1.5 be a "safe" dose in general forever?
Last edited:
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
I do not think it is the insulin. It’s not healthy for him to be in these pink numbers that he’s already on now. He needs to go to the vet and have a full senior bloodwork and urinalysis done. When was his last set of labs done (a complete CBC and chemistry panel with a T4.)
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
When did he start this behavior? Just this morning?
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
You actually shot insulin the last two days without getting a preshot test? (The preshot cells are blank for Saturday and Sunday.). That’s not safe. And I don’t see any tests during his cycles for the last five days.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
How do you know he feels nauseated? I expect he does, but signs of nausea include:
1. Sniffing food and walking away
2. Sniffing at food and licking lips and then not eating / walking away
3. Licking the surface of the food (like licking gravy off the top) and walking away
4. Teeth grinding/chattering sounds.
Personally, I have seen a lot of lip licking and the teeth chattering/grinding sounds. But in those cases, I knew what the cause was (chronic kidney disease, inflammatory bowel disease and small cell lymphoma.) So I am just saying that there must be a cause, and I am not buying the theory that it’s his dose of insulin — especially when he’s in the 300s this morning. Cats who are not used to normal BG will sometimes hide when they get into normal BG numbers— but that is temporary until their bodies become accustomed to them again. He’s definitely high this morning so that’s not it.
And finally, I am really sorry to hear that he isn’t feeling well this morning. It makes me sad for the poor boy. It’s always upsetting when our cats won’t eat. I’ve been having that problem in two of my cats recently (as if one wasn’t enough now a second cat has been acting ill and not wanting to eat. I’m taking her tomorrow for full bloodwork. She’s 11 and so a senior. She did have bloodwork done in March that was fine, but a lot can change in a senior kitty over six months and it os recommended to get senior bloodwork done every six months anyway. I don’t always have the luxury of doing that because of the cost — I am always taking someone to the vet these days because I have a lot of senior cats. But this time I am switching out an appointment I had scheduled for tomorrow for a different cat — the latest kitty to not eat.
But let me know if Cap perks up later. I do hope so. If you think he’s nauseated then I would recommend giving him some Cerenia if the vet has given you an Rx for this and you have it on hand. Or, better yet, Zofran (also Rx) is extremely good at controlling nausea.
A natural remedy that can really help with nausea (as well as both diarrhea and constipation) is Slippery Elm Bark. Are you familiar with it?
Speaking of Constipation…. Is he having regular bowel movements? Or is he having diarrhea? Constipation can really take away a cat’s appetite. I’m just trying to think of the many possibilities. When did he last eat? Last night? What was it? Dr. Elsey’s dry? Will he eat any of the dry this morning?
1. Sniffing food and walking away
2. Sniffing at food and licking lips and then not eating / walking away
3. Licking the surface of the food (like licking gravy off the top) and walking away
4. Teeth grinding/chattering sounds.
Personally, I have seen a lot of lip licking and the teeth chattering/grinding sounds. But in those cases, I knew what the cause was (chronic kidney disease, inflammatory bowel disease and small cell lymphoma.) So I am just saying that there must be a cause, and I am not buying the theory that it’s his dose of insulin — especially when he’s in the 300s this morning. Cats who are not used to normal BG will sometimes hide when they get into normal BG numbers— but that is temporary until their bodies become accustomed to them again. He’s definitely high this morning so that’s not it.
And finally, I am really sorry to hear that he isn’t feeling well this morning. It makes me sad for the poor boy. It’s always upsetting when our cats won’t eat. I’ve been having that problem in two of my cats recently (as if one wasn’t enough now a second cat has been acting ill and not wanting to eat. I’m taking her tomorrow for full bloodwork. She’s 11 and so a senior. She did have bloodwork done in March that was fine, but a lot can change in a senior kitty over six months and it os recommended to get senior bloodwork done every six months anyway. I don’t always have the luxury of doing that because of the cost — I am always taking someone to the vet these days because I have a lot of senior cats. But this time I am switching out an appointment I had scheduled for tomorrow for a different cat — the latest kitty to not eat.
But let me know if Cap perks up later. I do hope so. If you think he’s nauseated then I would recommend giving him some Cerenia if the vet has given you an Rx for this and you have it on hand. Or, better yet, Zofran (also Rx) is extremely good at controlling nausea.
A natural remedy that can really help with nausea (as well as both diarrhea and constipation) is Slippery Elm Bark. Are you familiar with it?
Speaking of Constipation…. Is he having regular bowel movements? Or is he having diarrhea? Constipation can really take away a cat’s appetite. I’m just trying to think of the many possibilities. When did he last eat? Last night? What was it? Dr. Elsey’s dry? Will he eat any of the dry this morning?
Charity & Cap
Member
Today:
He’s just not going to eat this morning, I guess. I’ve offered him five different kinds of soft food, roast beef, cooked salmon, shredded turkey, shredded chicken… and he’s just walked away from all of them and hidden under the bed.
Last night / yesterday he was normal, ate a normal breakfast, had baked salmon at 5pm, and a snack of baked roast beef around 8pm.
This morning he refused all food, growled at me when I checked his blood sugar levels, then puked up stomach acid.
No Tests:
That is correct. It’s getting harder and harder to get blood from his ear, and I don’t know why, but I am having to poke more times and harder and this greatly upsets him. Two mornings in a row, his ear gave me nothing and I had to release him, because he was upset.
I don’t see why it’s dangerous when we both know he’s going to be in 300+ ranges, so there’s no way he’s going to be too low at nadir.
Blood Work:
He had a full blood panel done in Feb/March which was when they diagnosed him as diabetic.
Yes, it is costly and it’s also hell to take him to the vet. I live in the middle of nowhere on dirt roads, it takes an hour, and he always has a traumatic experience. So besides the several hundred bucks per visit, he pukes himself on the way there, then usually has anxiety poop, and it causes stress for us both. The vet refuses to do home visits or testing.
Pooping:
Normal poops. Had loose stool a couple of days ago, along with a bout of vomiting, then the next morning, he hawked up a huge hairball. So he’s been not feeling great off and on for a few days.
Ending:
I just… don’t know how much more of this I can take. It upsets him to be messed with, tested, given shots, etc. It upsets me to upset him and then deal with him feeling like crap. The more I mess with him, the less he wants to eat when he should. He has started running away and hiding at meal times, becaue he knows he's going to get messed with and poked. This is why I didn't test for six months. I would try, he would then hide and/or feel anxious about what I was going to "do" to him, and half the time, he wouldn't eat as usual.
Would another insulin work better? Should I talk to the vet about that? I know Lantis (?) is more expensive but maybe this one just isn't working.
He’s just not going to eat this morning, I guess. I’ve offered him five different kinds of soft food, roast beef, cooked salmon, shredded turkey, shredded chicken… and he’s just walked away from all of them and hidden under the bed.
Last night / yesterday he was normal, ate a normal breakfast, had baked salmon at 5pm, and a snack of baked roast beef around 8pm.
This morning he refused all food, growled at me when I checked his blood sugar levels, then puked up stomach acid.
No Tests:
That is correct. It’s getting harder and harder to get blood from his ear, and I don’t know why, but I am having to poke more times and harder and this greatly upsets him. Two mornings in a row, his ear gave me nothing and I had to release him, because he was upset.
I don’t see why it’s dangerous when we both know he’s going to be in 300+ ranges, so there’s no way he’s going to be too low at nadir.
Blood Work:
He had a full blood panel done in Feb/March which was when they diagnosed him as diabetic.
Yes, it is costly and it’s also hell to take him to the vet. I live in the middle of nowhere on dirt roads, it takes an hour, and he always has a traumatic experience. So besides the several hundred bucks per visit, he pukes himself on the way there, then usually has anxiety poop, and it causes stress for us both. The vet refuses to do home visits or testing.
Pooping:
Normal poops. Had loose stool a couple of days ago, along with a bout of vomiting, then the next morning, he hawked up a huge hairball. So he’s been not feeling great off and on for a few days.
Ending:
I just… don’t know how much more of this I can take. It upsets him to be messed with, tested, given shots, etc. It upsets me to upset him and then deal with him feeling like crap. The more I mess with him, the less he wants to eat when he should. He has started running away and hiding at meal times, becaue he knows he's going to get messed with and poked. This is why I didn't test for six months. I would try, he would then hide and/or feel anxious about what I was going to "do" to him, and half the time, he wouldn't eat as usual.
Would another insulin work better? Should I talk to the vet about that? I know Lantis (?) is more expensive but maybe this one just isn't working.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
How is Cap feeling? Did he ever eat for you? Even if you switched to a different type of insulin, you would still need to be able to know what his nadirs are. I think he would be a good candidate for a Libre sensor that you could apply yourself without going to the vet. We have quite a few members who are doing that. @Marje and Gracie can you provide any perspective or ideas for this situation, in light of what Charity has said about her kitty Cap in the last few posts?
I think the Libre is a great idea as long as Charity can afford having to change it every couple of weeks. At least it might give him a break.
Insofar as him not eating, are you checking ketones, Charity? It’s really important to check ketones every day when he’s above 150. Is he drinking any water? I would be concerned about his ketones. It doesn’t take much to cause DKA:
Not enough food + not enough water + not enough insulin + infection
It’s sometimes hard to figure out if any infection is going on.
Have you read the Testing and Shooting Tips to be sure you are poking correctly with a smaller gauge lancet and in the correct area? Warming the ear?
Charity & Cap
Member
He eventually felt well enough to eat around noon, and had his usual amount of food at night. This morning I babied him / left him alone and he ate enough for his shot. I'm going to be super chill for a few days / not rush him into anything and see if I can get him less anxious around mealtimes.
No keytones. He's been drinking/pooping/peeing normally.
Might have to brush up on the ear poking technique, since I seem to be doing it wrong.
I'll consider the Libre.
No keytones. He's been drinking/pooping/peeing normally.
Might have to brush up on the ear poking technique, since I seem to be doing it wrong.
I'll consider the Libre.
When ear-poking correctly, it is less uncomfortable for the kitty and many will go to testing spots. Rewards in the form of low carb treats really help. And the more time you can spend with him rubbing his ears gently but not poking but just trying to bond with him, the better. My kitty could sleep through her tests because her ears learned to bleed so just a light tap with a small gauge lancet (31g) git enough blood for a test.
You can also buy a meter which requires a very small sample. I haven’t kept up with which ones that includes but you can ask on Main Health for meter recommendations as, even if you get a Libre, you will need to spot check the lows with a handheld.
The main thing is just staying calm and making it calm and peaceful for him. You can even try offering him a small amount of his favorite food while you poke.
Charity & Cap
Member
@Suzanne & Darcy
Okay, I've gotten him (and me) less anxious by leaving him mostly alone for a week, but he's still trending into the mid-to-high 300s at the end of the 12 hours. I understand this means he's not regulated yet.
How long is it safe to leave him on the current dose before his body gets too used to it?
Do you want me to do Nadir checks for a week or +4/+6 for a few days or do a curve? Which would be more useful?
He's had smaller meals more often, which seems to help during the day, but I can't do it overnight as well.
His random spikes frustrate me, since he can eat mostly the same thing two days in a row and have different numbers.
He has been acting mostly normal. No Ketones in his urine. Drinking less except when his numbers get high (I can always tell pre-shot if he's chugging water or constantly pestering me for food). Peeing less. Affectionate, playful, shiny coat.
Okay, I've gotten him (and me) less anxious by leaving him mostly alone for a week, but he's still trending into the mid-to-high 300s at the end of the 12 hours. I understand this means he's not regulated yet.
How long is it safe to leave him on the current dose before his body gets too used to it?
Do you want me to do Nadir checks for a week or +4/+6 for a few days or do a curve? Which would be more useful?
He's had smaller meals more often, which seems to help during the day, but I can't do it overnight as well.
His random spikes frustrate me, since he can eat mostly the same thing two days in a row and have different numbers.
He has been acting mostly normal. No Ketones in his urine. Drinking less except when his numbers get high (I can always tell pre-shot if he's chugging water or constantly pestering me for food). Peeing less. Affectionate, playful, shiny coat.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
I think this would be useful.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
I don’t see a lot of spikes at preshot times. He is typically in the same ballpark most of the time. Don’t get too hung up on each individual number. We are looking at trends.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
It’s good to hear from you. I looked at his spreadsheet a couple of times this week.