New Member- Bug initial dx 3/2021, remission 1/2022, relapsed 12/2022

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HeathSesh

Member Since 2023
Hello,

My name is Heather and my diabetic kitties name is Bug. He was initially diagnosed with diabetes in March 2021 and was well regulated on 2u BID Glargine with blood glucose numbers consistently around 100. I test regularly with an AlphaTRAK and in January 2021 he went into remission. Bug is 15 years old with renal failure so tends to use the potty and drink water quite often. I give him subq fluids at home and he’s on a low carb, high protein, low phosphorus wet food.

I tested every month while in remission to make sure his numbers stayed in the normal range which they did until early December 2022. He tested at 474 and was showing poor clinical signs- excessive thirst and ruination, unsteady gate, glossy eyes, lethargy. We moved states and thus changed vets during the time he was in remission so we scheduled a visit with the new vet to confirm his diabetes had returned and to get a new rx for glargine. They recommended we start him on 2u since he did so well with that dosage previously. They did blood work to check kidney values and his BUN (blood urea nitrogen) was quite high so I’ve increased subq fluids to 150mL daily.

Insulin therapy was started on 12/13/2022 but Bug’s numbers have consistently been in the 400-500 range with the exception of a couple pre-shot numbers in the high 300s. I’ve increased his dosage about every 3 days (or 6 cycles) with no decrease in blood glucose thus far. He is now on 4.5u BID. Ive tested his urine for ketones a couple of times which have been negative. I realize his kidney failure is most likely not helping with diabetes regulation, but shouldn’t I be seeing his numbers decrease as I increase his dosage?

I plan to create a spreadsheet soon (laptop died and new one is on the way) to show what his curves have looked like and to give you more information, but to give you an idea here are the results of his last two curves.

12/20/22
Preshot- 336
+2hr- 456
+4hr- 464
+6hr- 406
+8hr- 505
+10hr- 500

12/31/22
Preshot- 369
+3hr- 436
+6hr- 534
+9hr- 521

I’m looking for advice with how I should proceed. Do I continue to increase dosage until I see numbers start to drop? At what point do we consider insulin resistance due to another potentially underlying health issue (besides the renal failure)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Please also let me know if I need to clarify anything. Thank you! I’m very appreciative of the vast amount of information I’ve received from the website and forums so far!
 
Welcome
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
 
Hello,

My name is Heather and my diabetic kitties name is Bug. He was initially diagnosed with diabetes in March 2021 and was well regulated on 2u BID Glargine with blood glucose numbers consistently around 100. I test regularly with an AlphaTRAK and in January 2021 he went into remission. Bug is 15 years old with renal failure so tends to use the potty and drink water quite often. I give him subq fluids at home and he’s on a low carb, high protein, low phosphorus wet food.

I tested every month while in remission to make sure his numbers stayed in the normal range which they did until early December 2022. He tested at 474 and was showing poor clinical signs- excessive thirst and ruination, unsteady gate, glossy eyes, lethargy. We moved states and thus changed vets during the time he was in remission so we scheduled a visit with the new vet to confirm his diabetes had returned and to get a new rx for glargine. They recommended we start him on 2u since he did so well with that dosage previously. They did blood work to check kidney values and his BUN (blood urea nitrogen) was quite high so I’ve increased subq fluids to 150mL daily.

Insulin therapy was started on 12/13/2022 but Bug’s numbers have consistently been in the 400-500 range with the exception of a couple pre-shot numbers in the high 300s. I’ve increased his dosage about every 3 days (or 6 cycles) with no decrease in blood glucose thus far. He is now on 4.5u BID. Ive tested his urine for ketones a couple of times which have been negative. I realize his kidney failure is most likely not helping with diabetes regulation, but shouldn’t I be seeing his numbers decrease as I increase his dosage?

I plan to create a spreadsheet soon (laptop died and new one is on the way) to show what his curves have looked like and to give you more information, but to give you an idea here are the results of his last two curves.

12/20/22
Preshot- 336
+2hr- 456
+4hr- 464
+6hr- 406
+8hr- 505
+10hr- 500

12/31/22
Preshot- 369
+3hr- 436
+6hr- 534
+9hr- 521

I’m looking for advice with how I should proceed. Do I continue to increase dosage until I see numbers start to drop? At what point do we consider insulin resistance due to another potentially underlying health issue (besides the renal failure)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Please also let me know if I need to clarify anything. Thank you! I’m very appreciative of the vast amount of information I’ve received from the website and forums so far!
Tagging

@Wendy&Neko

@tiffmaxee

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Suzanne & Darcy
 
Hi and welcome to the forum Heather and Bug. I’m sorry your kitty has fallen out of remission. That happened to me so I know the disappointment!
Did the vet give Bug a good check over and check his teeth and urine for a UTI? They are two things that often cause cats to fall out of remission.
If you could get your SS and signature set up asap and add some BG data we will be able to help you a lot more.
Are you testing before each shot and then around +4to +7 during the cycles? it is possible Bug is bouncing on the days you are doing the curves and dropping lower on other days. Seeing the bigger picture will be much more helpful.
Are you feeding during the cycles as well as the Preshot meals?
Bron
 
From the yellow stickie, The Basics
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
Thank you for your help! I just completed my signature and will have a spreadsheet made in the next few days.

Welcome
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
 
Thank you for your reply! Bug had a teeth cleaning and extraction about 6 months so his teeth were thoroughly examined then and the vet did do a quick check (as much as Bug would allow) at his appointment in December. They did not check for a UTI though. I have a urine sample kit at home so I’ll talk to them about getting that done.
I just created my signature and will have a spreadsheet created within the next few days.
I haven’t been testing before each shot. It’s usually a few times a week rather than daily but I will start being more consistent with testing to better understand the big picture and whether or not he may be bouncing.
I feed twice a day preshot every 12 hours. He usually eats the bulk of his meal at those two times but may have a little left over that he’ll eat within an hour or two of feeding. Would it be better to feed small meals throughout the cycle rather than two main meals before shots?


Hi and welcome to the forum Heather and Bug. I’m sorry your kitty has fallen out of remission. That happened to me so I know the disappointment!
Did the vet give Bug a good check over and check his teeth and urine for a UTI? They are two things that often cause cats to fall out of remission.
If you could get your SS and signature set up asap and add some BG data we will be able to help you a lot more.
Are you testing before each shot and then around +4to +7 during the cycles? it is possible Bug is bouncing on the days you are doing the curves and dropping lower on other days. Seeing the bigger picture will be much more helpful.
Are you feeding during the cycles as well as the Preshot meals?
Bron
 
Yes I would feed the two Preshot meals and a couple of snacks in the first half of all cycles if I were you.
Getting more consistent tests will give you a much better idea of what is going on than random tests and curves.
That is good to know his teeth are ok.
I’m looking forward to seeing the SS. If you have any trouble setting it up let me know and we can help you easily.

Have you seen Weruva’s latest low phosphorus low carb wet foods ?
 
Ok thank you. Yes we love Weruva and feed our cats almost exclusively their low carb, low phos wet food!

So I’m in need of some guidance. I’m testing Bug today and his numbers have finally come down! Preshot was 262 and +4 was 81. I’m happy to see them much lower but now am worried about going too low. How would you suggest I proceed? I’m planning on testing again in an hour. At what number do I worry about hypoglycemia? I have Karo syrup and high carb food ready on hand. If he stays low the rest of the cycle, do I give him his next insulin dose as usual?


Yes I would feed the two Preshot meals and a couple of snacks in the first half of all cycles if I were you.
Getting more consistent tests will give you a much better idea of what is going on than random tests and curves.
That is good to know his teeth are ok.
I’m looking forward to seeing the SS. If you have any trouble setting it up let me know and we can help you easily.

Have you seen Weruva’s latest low phosphorus low carb wet foods ?
 
Hi Heather,
How is the SS set up going. Any progress there yet?
As you are doing SLGS and with the +4 of 81, Bug has earned himself a reduction in dose. So if he is on 4.5 units, he needs to reduce the dose to 4.25 units.
Here are the two DOSING METHODS for you to read.
Depending on your circumstances,p and how much you are testing, you might like to try TR.
 
I tried creating the spreadsheet from a tablet but ran into issues so it’s on hold for now. My laptop died a couple weeks ago and the new one I ordered won’t be here until early next week.. I know it’ll make this all easier for myself and you wonderful helpers when I have a SS set up!

Ok great! I read through the SLGS method again and came to the same conclusion of lowering his dosage this evening. I tested at +8 and it was 119. I’ll of course do a PMPS before I feed to see where he’s at.

Thank you again for your prompt responses and guidance thus far!


Hi Heather,
How is the SS set up going. Any progress there yet?
As you are doing SLGS and with the +4 of 81, Bug has earned himself a reduction in dose. So if he is on 4.5 units, he needs to reduce the dose to 4.25 units.
Here are the two DOSING METHODS for you to read.
Depending on your circumstances,p and how much you are testing, you might like to try TR.
 
I tried creating the spreadsheet from a tablet but ran into issues so it’s on hold for now. My laptop died a couple weeks ago and the new one I ordered won’t be here until early next week.. I know it’ll make this all easier for myself and you wonderful helpers when I have a SS set up!
I’ll tag @Bandit's Mom to help you with the SS. She is great with them and an set them up in 5 minutes! She will send you a message.
Hello Heather & Bug! Welcome to FDMB! :-)
I can help set up your spreadsheet. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.
 
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