New member - BG sheet now up

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BaileyUK

Member Since 2013
Hi

We joined the forum a couple of days ago and have made our intros on the main Health page.

We uploaded our cat Bailey's BG readings this morning - it's a mixed bag and we don't seem to be testing anywhere near as much as other owners on here. It's been a turbulent ride but starting to see results now that we're on Lantus - please see my other posts for more info on Bailey and his current condition.

Just wanted to post on here so that other owners can see the results and comment. Great forum and receiving lots of support thank you to all of you!

Bailey and Barnes
 
Good Morning and Welcome to Our little corner of the world we call Relaxed Lantus. :-)

I'm going to run over to Health and catch up on Bailey's story real quick and then come back to discuss just want to make sure you haven't already answered a few things that I have questions about there. But did want to welcome you real quick first.

Bailey is one hansom fellow and looks like he could be a twin to my Lord Maxwell so I'm biased lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn and The Fur Gang
 
Sorry Barnes I had planned on getting back to you sooner but my furkids seem to have different ideas this morning...seems that since I scrubbed all the floors yesterday today is the day to hack up hairballs.

Glad I popped over to Health because you have a weath of information there. :-)

First off what if anything is your vet doing to treat the pancreatitis? Fortunately it is something I've only dealth with briefly in a foster kitty. Have they given him anything for pain? As it is an extremely painful condition and pain raises BGs. I know here in the States it is normally treated with subq fluids, pain meds and anti-nausea med, but as my ex-husband was a Brummie I do know things are a little different across the pond. (spent a good deal of time in Wales but please God don't ask me to spell the village's name...lol) Thus the kitties Myrrdin and Duvessa as well as Lady Jane Grey in my signature. ;-)

Anyhow as others on Health pointed out you were started on a hefty dose of Lantus which maybe in part that British vets don't have a good grasp of how to use Lantus. Very few cats need that much insulin regardless of weight which seems to be how many vet's dose.

Now I know Bailey has lost weight but do you have an idea what his ideal weight is? Because I'm a little concerned about that high dose until you get testing down to an art form especially since he has hypoed on you already. And it is always easier to work up to the ideal dose than down and safer as well because you can always add more if not enough but once shot you can't get it out of the cat.

Too high kills slowly over time too low can kill quickly.

I also notice a lot of missing preshots..The four most important times to test with Lantus are both preshots, a midcycle normally around +6 ish and lights out before you head off to bed.

Now as you are aware there are two Lantus pages here Relaxed and Tight here in Relaxed we don't test nearly as much as the Tight because for the most part we have either lives or cats that don't fit well with the Tight protocol. You are certainly welcome to follow either protocol on either pages we just need to know which one.

On Relaxed we are Start Low Go Slow protocol and well Tight is just that Tight. Here because we don't test as much we hold doses longer and don't raise as fast. We are also a much smaller group so a lot of the time there aren't a lot of eyes if you need a quick answer.but we are also less formal in our posting style.

Basically all I ask here is you update your condo heading during the day with your test numbers give me a date and cat's name so if I'm flying by I can quickly see whose where. When it comes to testing all I really stress are preshots daily, spot checks when you can and a curve every week or two when you have a free day to test every two hours. I do highly encourage a lights out test but unless Bailey is running very low I'm not going to ask you to test overnight and if I do I'm throwing on a pot of coffee and staying up with you.

So if you think this is the right protocol for you and Bailey then we will do every thing in our power to help out just wanted to make sure you are making an informed choice on where to get the best help. Now I will say my Maxwell went into remissionon this protocol and he will celebrate 3 years insulin free on November 1st

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn and The Fur Gang
 
Thanks Mel

The Pancreatitis we have only just found out this morning is still there; I strongly believe that this has been something he has had for a long while and is what brought on the Diabetes but we cannot know for sure it's just a hunch knowing Bailey - I rescued him around 10 years ago and he has had a v sensitive stomach from day 1 frequent runs and vomiting but much less so since he was diagnosed with FD - strangely.

When we first identified the Pancreatitis he was on pain injections and a month's course of anti-biotics - the pain meds didn't seem to have any effect and (touch wood) he doesn't appear to be in that much pain he is relaxed and chirpy the move onto Lantus seemed to brighten him up almost instantly. Again this might not be Pancreatitis it could possibly be a growth on the pancreas which is effecting his insulin production we really don't know what we're dealing with here and hence have booked him for an ultra-sound in a couple of weeks time to hopefully find out what is going on in there. He certainly doesn't exhibit the classic signs of Pancreatitis but his Lipase is raised and getting higher so this is what our vet has concluded.

Correct - in terms of the Lantus starting dose we were flying blind and we only got him on it through our own determination and constant pestering. He was on a very high dose of Canninsulin prior to this 8 units no less and so we started him high on Lantus but agree it was lucky we didn't see another hypo.

He is currently just under 5Kg - ideal weight I am not sure but he is certainly not overweight and eats well.

Testing is a real issue as it takes two of us to do it and Bailey lives at my mums whilst I live down the road it is literally a case of me having to go over there between work / when I can in order to test him. Our vet is telling us to test his nadir (+6) every other day but we do feel we should be testing more and looking at this forum we can see that it's not uncommon to test 7 -8 - 9 times a day which for us won't be do'able so it's RELAXED all the way I'm afraid.

If we were battling with the just the Diabetes then I am sure this would be a lot easier but we have this underlying question mark which we need to establish exactly what is going on - worst case it could be a tumour but his clinical signs are currently really good and I think we would have seen a marked deterioration (not an improvement) over the last 6 months and since he has had his balloon belly (supposedly from the Pancreatitis).

We are starting him on a steroid (Budesonide) next week to treat his pancreatitis as well as another course of A-B's to hopefully bring the Pancreatitis into check but if we don't see any improvement then we'll just have to bite the bullet and go thru with the ultra-sound / aspiration of the fluid / biopsy of the pancreas whatever is needed dependant on what the scan shows up - he will have to have a general and we are of course not so happy about this but if it's got to be done...

That is great news about Maxwell - is he a Maine Coon also?

We will try and make the preshot tests and the nadir so 3 tests a day as much as we can and appreciate your advice and support. It's been a rollercoaster for all 3 of us and it continues that way sadly - even with the Diabetes stable at the moment we are so v worried about this unknown so only time will tell on that front. The ray of light that I keep my mind set on is Bailey doesn't seem to be in any pain and he is relaxed and alert and doing his thing - although a lot slower than he used to owing to the rough ride he has had the last 9 months and also the considerable muscle loss.

We're not giving up and we will do everything we can for him that much is certain.

Thank you again for all the advice we really appreciate it.

B&B
 
Hi Barnes,

When I saw you were in UK, I worried that you were stuck on Caninsulin because I know of a couple others who have had a horrible time convincing their vet to let them use Lantus. What a relief.

So, I have not read any of the post postings, so I'll just go with what I see and may repeat others.

Lantus likes consistency so you need to stick to one dose and when you make a change, give the change a good 5 or 6 shots to settle and see if it's working or not...

For testing, I see only half the story on the ss; there are no numbers from tests after the pm shot, so you don't know what's going on at night which makes it tough to understand what you see during the day. There are 3 tests that are the most important every day... the test before the am shot, before the pm shot, and before bedtime. You really don't need to run over every day to test at +6 because you are not sure what it's telling you.
You would be better to test 3 times a day, and then on a weekend day or someday you are free, to test the cat every 2 hours between two shots. Doing a curve will tell you a great deal.
One of my cats had nadir at +5 and the other was around +10 or later, so see if you can get another test here and there, at diff times.

Pancreatitis can be fatal. My cat is currently in the hospital with an extreme bout, with his fPLI test result of 50 and many other health levels affected at the same time.

The usual approach is to give pain meds, Buprenorphine is the best, plus something for upset stomach like Pepcid AC or something like famotidine, and then the 3rd need is to be giving subQ fluids. The fluids are very important, for flushing the system, and pain meds need to be given because it's terribly painful and that's per humans who have suffered from ptitis.
Cats are very clever and hide their pain, so be very sure that your cat IS very well hydrated and eating; if you allow less eating with ptitis, you have to watch for hepatic lipidosis.

What is your concern of a tumor? Are you suspecting acromegaly? If you are, there is a test for it; I think the value positive for you is greater than 1000. Here in North America the test for IGF-1 states 12-92 is negative and over 92 positive.

I hope the others have already addressed the food issue..... feeding any dry food usually results in cats needing much more insulin and when they switch to a low carb wet food, usually a pate type, the need for insulin lowers.

If you can confirm the diet is a wet food, that's good. If not, you will need to test a bit more and switch foods,dropping the dose to go with the lower numbers.

Again, nadir is NOT always at +6; and nadir does not always fall at the same place/time. That's why a curve is the way to go to locate the nadir region.

If anyone is pushing you to test 7+ times a day, ignore them. Maybe if you were at home with the cat, all day, every day, and had nothing to do except test the cat, well OK, but who is in that position? Not many people!
People can usually get the am test and then are away during the day, test before the pm shot, and then maybe 1 or 2 tests in the evening. Then, on the weekend or a day off, they can give the am shot and then test every couple hours during that day until the pm shot, and that gives you lots of data.

Please post where you feel most comfortable and don't let people be too demanding ,,,, do what you can.

Can you explain the need for the steroid for pancreatitis? You would do better to be giving the cat B12 shots weekly at home which will deal with the pancreas inflammation.... it helped both of my cats, and one had pancreatitis flares often before the B12 shots.
Are you giving fluids at home? If not, have the vet show you and you can give them at home. Also, why do you need a biopsy?
Sure you can get an Xray done, and also the ultrasound to confirm the pancreatitis andlook for a tumor, but why the biopsy ... sounds like a money grabbing overkill action which isn't justified. Anytime they go into the body, there is risk, so I'd want to know why before saying OK.

Ask lots more questions.... why the steroids, why the biopsy - on what and also what tumor, what about Xray, what about B12, quiz them and get explanations.

Gayle
 
Well Lord Maxwell's lineage is a bit of a mystery to me as I adopted him from this very board as a diabeticwhen his previous owner went into a nursing home and her family dropped him off at a vet to be euthanized simply because he was diabetic. He has lots of the physical characteristic of a Maine Coon although I'm sure he is more than likely an All American Mutt. lol

But this is our hansom man

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn and The Fur Gang
 

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Hi Mel

He really is a lot like Bailey what a beautiful cat!

Such a shame that people either don't have the money or the patience to treat FD.

I think Bailey has a similar story, bit of maine coon in there but not a thoroughbred - a very special animal all the same!

Thanks again!
 
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