New member asking...

[NicoleC]

Hi everyone!
From reading through posts you all seem super helpful! My Misty was diagnosed with diabetes and renal disease late last August. We do SQ fluids twice a week and she was started on Lantus. She quickly dropped her sugars and came off insulin for almost two months. Unfortunately she went back on insulin late December and while Lantus originally worked for us, it’s not working anymore. We switched her food from renal food to diabetic food and kept increasing the Lantus. So now the vet switched to ProZinc. I’m a little nervous to start it in the morning. Has anyone had luck switching from Lantus to ProZinc and seen blood sugars better regulated? Thank you!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Lantus is usually a great insulin for cats, but ECID (Every Cat is Different) and the best insulin is the one that works in your cat!

One thing strikes out at me....the "diabetic" food is actually not really a good choice for a diabetic! Most of them are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat and the ingredients are pretty lousy too. Most of us feed our own cats Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates or 9-Lives ground. They're under 10% carbs, easy to find and affordable.

When Misty was on insulin, did you do any home testing?

What dose of Lantus is she on?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Nicole and welcome to you and Misty.
I would say that keeping her on the renal diet contributed to falling out of remission. Renal food is high in carbs.
What are you feeding now?
Is it low carb wet/canned food? Or dry food?
When you say it is not working any more, what do you mean?
When a cat drops out of remission it is usually harder to get them back into better numbers as quickly as it was the first time around..
Are you able to set up a spreadsheet and put in some of your BG data for us to see. We are very data driven here and work off the Ss all the time. Here is a link. If Yu have any trouble setting it up just ask for help....no problem
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Also if you can get your signature set up which will appear at the bottom of all your posts in small writing and will tell us about Misty so we don't have to keep asking you about her. The signature is in the top right of this page under your user name. Whenyou have finished just save. Your SS will also go with your signature under all posts.

Here is another link to useful info for new members and in it it has what to put in the signature
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Lantus is usually a great insulin for cats. We have many more members here that use Lantus than Prozinc.
Personally I would stay with Lantus a bit longer and see if we can help you with it. What dose is she on and how did you increase it? In 1 unit increments or less than that?
But ECID ...every cat is different
Bron
.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Since your kitty has CKD as well as diabetes, Fancy Feast and Friskies are not good options. They are too high in phosphorus. Which diabetic food were you feeding?

We see people switch from Prozinc to Lantus, not as often the other way around. What was her Lantus dose?

 

[JanetNJ]

The prescription food is not an ideal choice, esp if it’s the dry. Try something like weruva. You are looking for low carb and low phosphorous. My cat is both ckd and diabetic. don’t go by my cats diabetes Numbers in my as because she’s a high dose acro cat, but she’s on prozinc and doing well. We never tried lantus.
This is what she's eating now
Weruva slide and serve pate foods Family Food (.97 phosphorus and 0 carb). Also Jeopurrdy Chicken (0.97 P 6.1 carb)

Weruva Steak Frites (0.57 phosphorus 7.5 carb although I take out any big pieces of potatoes to try to limit the carbs just a bit)

weruva Fowl Ball chicken and turkey (0.89 phosphorus 0 carb).

Weruva LA isla Bonita - phosphorus 0.77 carb 4.5

Weruva paw lickin chicken 3.3 carb

and Press Your Lunch (5.9 carb 0.82 phosphorus)

 

[NicoleC]

Lantus is usually a great insulin for cats, but ECID (Every Cat is Different) and the best insulin is the one that works in your cat!

One thing strikes out at me....the "diabetic" food is actually not really a good choice for a diabetic! Most of them are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat and the ingredients are pretty lousy too. Most of us feed our own cats Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates or 9-Lives ground. They're under 10% carbs, easy to find and affordable.

When Misty was on insulin, did you do any home testing?

What dose of Lantus is she on?

Thanks for the reply. She was on prescription renal food-wet only. We just recently changed her to glycobalance (also prescription)..it’s higher in protein and lower in carbs. We can’t do FF or friskier bc of her renal disease. No dry food. She was up to four units of Lantus and her sugars were still in the 500’s we raised her very slowly but she didn’t respond to any of the increases.

 

[Deb & Wink]

we raised her very slowly but she didn’t respond to any of the increases.

Define slowly. 0.25u increments? 0.5U increments? 1 U increments?
How long were the doses held before they were increased?
What was the basis for the increases? Tests at the vet clinic? Curves? Home testing?

Were the Subq fluids and the insulin shot given as far apart in the cats body as possible?
Lantus forms a "depot" or storage area. Giving the subq fluids too close to the insulin injection site can interfere with the absorption of the insulin.

BG (blood glucose) levels taken at the vet can be artificially inflated due to "vet stress". A documented phenomenon.

Cats can have high dose conditions. Such as IAA (insulin resistant antibodies) or acromegaly. 4U of lantus is not high dose yet. 6u or more per cycle would be time for testing for those conditions.

What are the signs and symptoms of diabetes that Misty is exhibiting?
What caused her to lose remission? Pancreatitis, dental issues, infection/inflammation are some of the more common reasons.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Glycobalance (the wet food) is still 14% carbs. Diabetic cats should be fed under 10% carbs. The Weruva are a better choice, and their are other options.

One in four diabetic cats has acromegaly - not all of them have high doses, but we suggest at 6 units to get tested because we have seen cats on low carb wet or raw get up to 5.5 units, then turn it around. I prefer calling IAA and acromegaly secondary endocrine conditions. Although my Neko had both conditions and at one point got up over 8 units, the majority of her diabetic life she was 3 units or less, got down to 0.25 units at one point.

If a cat was home tested and didn't get below 500 at home up to 4 units of Lantus, switching to Prozinc may not help. If you could give us more details about the blood sugar testing that Deb asked, we'll be better able to answer the question.

 

[Vtambo & Rex]

I had good luck with Whole Earth Farms duck pate and WEF chicken pate, also Organix turkey pate and Organix chicken pate and wellness natural choice turkey.

 

[Vtambo & Rex]

Also young again dry. Mostly for treats in our case.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Can't recommend the Dr Elseys dry food, not since member Patty & Teal'c ditched even the little bit of that food she was feeding her cat. No more dry and cat is now eating Friskies and is seeing much better BG numbers.

 

[NicoleC]

Hi everyone. I’m trying to attach her sugar log. See below. I do home testing-when she goes to the vet her numbers are obviously higher. She has CKD along with the diabetes. We changed her to glycobalance on 2/15. It actually has less carbs than the Hills kd she was on before. We give her SQ fluids twice a week (yes spread apart from her insulin). I’m a nurse so I’m familiar with that part of the care. We started Prozinc 2/29, and her sugars have been even worse. She does have a uti so is now on abx. She gets 4 units Prozinc twice a day. She was on 4 units Lantus prior to that with no drop in sugars.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Ok. I could not read all the writing on your hand written notes.

We have a color coded spreadsheet we use here. There is a template you copy and setup a spreadsheet for your own cat. The directions include detailed setup steps for pc, tablet, smartphone.

It doesn't take long at all to set up. You do need a google email account first.
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

What it all means is here.
Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

Think of this as being like an electronic version of the notes you keep. Sort of like a "chart" for a human patient.

What testing are you doing in the middle of the 12 hour insulin cycle? To see what the nadir or lowest point in the cycle is? Do you have any data like that to share with us? All our dosing protocols are based on knowing how far down a particular insulin dose takes the BG (blood glucose) levels for YOUR cat. ECID. Every Cat is Different.

Also, some information in your user profile signature would be extremely helpful to us. Then, it's there at a glance for us to see, and we don't have to spend hours looking back through posts to find data.

Your first name, cats name, age, sex; DX date (diagnosis date); insulin used, meter used for testing, type of food fed, any concurrent medical conditions we should be aware of.

To add that information, go the the upper right corner of the screen. Click on your user name, a drop down list appears, select "Signature" from the list. Start typing in the text box that appears and be sure to click on "Save Changes" at the end. Then, magically, that information is attached to the end of all your posts, by software in the background. It takes about 60 seconds to enter that data in your "Signature."

Would you do that for us please?