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Stephanie and Korey

Stephanie and Korey

Member Since 2023
Hi. This is my first time posting. Korey was diagnosed about six weeks ago. He was hospitalized for two days so he could have had DKA. The vet did not say. He started at two units of prozinc. Vet recommended dry Hill's food. I went back two weeks and he was raised by two units. Went back in another two weeks and raised another two units to six. Next vet curve is Thursday.

I've read a lot and I am learning. I bought a BS monitor and I have checked his sugar a couple times. I'm not getting the timing right since I am learning. I am also transitioning to Friskies pate. I'm still giving the dry food since I can't check on him while I'm at work. I'm off Saturday and Sunday and I would like to stop the dry food.

Should I continue with the six units on Saturday? When should I test? Saturday I'll be on the look out for hypoglycemia. Should I do a curve on Sunday?

I hope I'm using all the terminology correctly!

Thanks for any help.
 
Welcome Stephanie and Korey, for some reason your spreadsheet doesn't come up when I tap on it, something isn't right
I'm going to tag a few members for you one about the possible DKA
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
And Suzanne she's familiar with prozinc
@Suzanne & Darcy
If you can go back to your title and put NEW MEMBER NEEED ADVICE
To do this look to the right , and tap on Thread Tools , then tap on Edit Title and add that first.
I was just headed out but here is the link for prozinc , please red all the yellow stickys. One thing your vet looks like he doesn't know too much about diabetes
You never raise the dose by 2 units , 6 units sounds crazy
We increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time
Do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markings? They make it easier when you need to reduce or increase by 0.25 units
My sister is waiting g for me to pick her up and I'm running late
Hopefully the members I tagged will reply back
 
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Hi Stephanie.

It's a little concerning when we read about a newly diagnosed kitty at such a high dose to start. While he may very well need 6 units, we go about getting to that amount quite a bit differently than your vet did.

First things first, as Diane mentioned, looks like the settings for your spreadsheet still need to be changed, I haven't been able to access either link you posted & I'm anxious to see what kind of readings you have so far.

Next thing, until you have the home testing down pat, I wouldn't change his diet at all. We really need to see what's going on with his BG before making ANY changes. What was Korey eating before switching to the Hill's dry food & what Hill's line is it?
 
I just updated the share setting on my spreadsheet so hopefully it works now.

He was eating a combination of dry food - purina and the gravy wet foods which I learned are very loaded with carbs. Vet put him on multibenefit w/d.
 
I can see your spreadsheet now - thanks!

It looks like he was eating high carb before and the new Hill's looks just as high carb - from the Hill's website they list the dry matter carbs in Multibenefit w/d at 36.8%.

I'd be really careful about transitioning to low carb food just yet. We really need to see more data before you make any changes.

Can you start getting a pre-shot test every time before you give insulin and a mid-cycle test as often as you can manage?
 
Hi there! Welcome to FDMB! It is very concerning to me that your vet has increased Korey’s insulin so rapidly. It’s good that you have started a spreadsheet and home testing. I look forward to seeing some numbers filled in on the spreadsheet so we can see what’s going on. Do you happen to have any of the numbers that the vet collected when doing curves? That might be helpful. I would also echo the caution about switching diet at this time — yes, it will be better for Korey to eventually transition to a low carb wet food diet, but to do that now without knowing how low his current dose is taking him could drive his BG down too low. So we need data. I am very proud of you for taking this on! When he is slowly transitioned to a low carb diet, he will need less insulin.
 
Stephanie Rausch said:
Hi. This is my first time posting. Korey was diagnosed about six weeks ago. He was hospitalized for two days so he could have had DKA. The vet did not say. He started at two units of prozinc. Vet recommended dry Hill's food. I went back two weeks and he was raised by two units. Went back in another two weeks and raised another two units to six. Next vet curve is Thursday.

I've read a lot and I am learning. I bought a BS monitor and I have checked his sugar a couple times. I'm not getting the timing right since I am learning. I am also transitioning to Friskies pate. I'm still giving the dry food since I can't check on him while I'm at work. I'm off Saturday and Sunday and I would like to stop the dry food.

Should I continue with the six units on Saturday? When should I test? Saturday I'll be on the look out for hypoglycemia. Should I do a curve on Sunday?

I hope I'm using all the terminology correctly!

Thanks for any help.
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Hi there.

My vet started my cat on 2U of Lantus and kept going up by 2U over 2years until he said he wanted her on 10U. I couldn't afford the insulin so it was all over or I try something else.

I came here and switched to Fancy Feast low carb wet and 3 days later she was having a hypo. Her number dropped from the black (highest zone) to light green (dangerous lowest zone.) Instead of shooting 10U i shot 3U and still thought i may have killed her. I was helped through the next 5 hours by a member and she stabilised. I was advised to stick to 3U and stay with the FDMB.

4 months later dried food is banished from the house. I have 4 months supply of Fancy Feast on hand - the reason I hadn't switched was bcoz I couldn't get it during the Pandemic so I'm now renound for posting where it's on special and I bulk buy from whomever has the special.
With the help of everyone in here she is now on 1.25U Lantus. I'm doing a curve today as her behaviour is off plus she's overdue for one.

This group saved Bonnie's life several times and I come here first - not the vet!!
I hope you have as much success.

My spreadsheet is available at the bottom so you can see Bonnie's numbers are very similar to your sugar cat's but she's on Lantus. I think you need to talk to more knowledgeable members about the insulin dose.
I can't stress enough - do not shoot if you haven't got a reading as Bonnie would have died if I gave her 8U let alone 10! It's a safeguard to avoid severe problems. It is hard for a few days but I can now test in under a minute!

Hope all goes well today

Debbie
 
Do you happen to know what the Fructosamine level was for your sweet cat? This would be helpful in.

Is Korey eating well now? No vomiting? Is he acting normally? Has anyone talked about testing for ketones yet?

For now, would you tell us a little bit about your schedule. When you shoot the insulin in the morning, how long after that do you have to leave for work? And how many hours after the morning shot time do you return home? I’m trying to figure out if you can get any tests on a work day. If you are off on Saturday and Sunday, you can gather some really beneficial data that can help is help Korey.
 
When I bought the meter, I also started transitioning Korey to wet food. That was before I was told to wait get get data. I started with 2 cans of wet food and half a cup of dry food a day. Friday and Saturday I got some readings. It seems like big swings. This morning I tried him just on dry and his he didn't dip down as low. My husband said maybe it was best to keep him on dry so his numbers don't swing as much. I go to the vet on Thursday so I'm wondering the best way to proceed.

I just saw all these replies. I checked before but maybe I wasn't logged in.
 
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Do you happen to know what the Fructosamine level was for your sweet cat? This would be helpful in.

His vet didn't give me much information.

Is Korey eating well now? No vomiting? Is he acting normally? Has anyone talked about testing for ketones yet?

He is himself. Always wanting to eat and lazy. I need to read more into testing for ketones. I'm not sure about catching him midstream.

For now, would you tell us a little bit about your schedule. When you shoot the insulin in the morning, how long after that do you have to leave for work? And how many hours after the morning shot time do you return home? I’m trying to figure out if you can get any tests on a work day. If you are off on Saturday and Sunday, you can gather some really beneficial data that can help is help Korey.

I feed him at 630 and insulin is given at 7. I go to work at 7. I get home between 530 and 600. I feed him a little early for dinner because he is begging for food. Insulin is 30 minutes later. I managed to get some data over the weekend.
 
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Stephanie and Korey said:
He eats at 630 am and pm. No snacks.
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No snacks is not good. He needs snacks through the cycle to stabilize his BG and prevent steep drops, which set him up for a big bounce into high numbers. Snacks also will help prevent him from dropping too low. Ordinarily snacks are 1-2 tsp of low carb wet food. He should also be getting a low carb treat at every test.
 
Also, with ProZinc, you do not need to wait for 30 minutes after he eats to give the shot. The ProZinc will onset about 2 hours or so after the shot.

Are you doing your AMPS and PMPS tests before you feed him? This is important so that we know his fasting glucose number and know if it’s safe to give insulin. So no food for two hours before the morning and evening preshot tests.

P.S. I am sorry if I am being too “cut and dry”. Right now I’m sick and running a fever, but I wanted to respond when I saw your messages. More about the food in a minute. I need to look at Korey’s spreadsheet.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
No snacks is not good. He needs snacks through the cycle to stabilize his BG and prevent steep drops, which set him up for a big bounce into high numbers. Snacks also will help prevent him from dropping too low. Ordinarily snacks are 1-2 tsp of low carb wet food. He should also be getting a low carb treat at every test.
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In the morning my snack would have to be 30 minutes after he ate. I can give him a nighttime snack easily.
 
How you approach insulin and food depends a great deal on what your goals are. If your vet didn't mention it, cats can go into remission. They are still diabetic but they do not need insulin and their blood glucose is food controlled (i.e., a diet controlled diabetic). However, if you continue to feed your cat foods that are high in carbs, your cat will not go into remission. There's a decent chance your cat will be regulated but with a high carb diet, you will need to keep your cat on insulin and generally on a high(er) dose of insulin.

In all honesty, I can't think of anyone who has knowingly kept their cat on a higher carb diet. Most people here set their goal for remission. That said, not all cats have a pancreas that is still functioning well enough for the cat to go into remission. But, the cat can be tightly regulated. I would also point out that cats are obligate carnivores. They are not able to metabolize carbohydrates. The only carbs that cats living in the wild eat are what's in the digestive system of their prey. All the high carb, dry food does is spike a cat's blood glucose. In addition, cats to not have a huge thirst drive. Dry food is very low in moisture and the low moisture is hard on a cat's kidneys. It's another reason that a canned food diet is healthier for a cat. You may want to take a look at Lisa Pierson, DVM's site on feline nutrition.

The swings you were seeing are normal. You want your cat to be once again accustomed to being in more normal (i.e., non-diabetic) numbers regardless of whether the goal is remission or regulation) or at the very least, be in numbers that are below renal threshold. Renal threshold varies for every cat but in general, it would be below about 230.
 
Stephanie -- consider a timed feeder. It's a way to leave snacks out when you're not home. There are feeders that have a space for an ice pack or you can freeze canned food in an ice cube tray and let it "melt" in the feeder for snacks.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Also, with ProZinc, you do not need to wait for 30 minutes after he eats to give the shot. The ProZinc will onset about 2 hours or so after the shot.

Are you doing your AMPS and PMPS tests before you feed him? This is important so that we know his fasting glucose number and know if it’s safe to give insulin. So no food for two hours before the morning and evening preshot tests.

P.S. I am sorry if I am being too “cut and dry”. Right now I’m sick and running a fever, but I wanted to respond when I saw your messages. More about the food in a minute. I need to look at Korey’s spreadsheet.
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I don't always test before giving insulin. When I do his numbers are pretty high. It's partly a new habit and then I worry about testing too much. He's not so happy about the testing I do.
 
Not testing before giving insulin is dangerous. If you don't test, you don't know if Korey's blood glucose is 300 or 30. If you gave him his current dose of 6u and his pre-shot test number was 30 and you left for work without having tested, I suspect you would be heartsick when you returned. I know that's a bit dramatic on my part but it can happen. The reason we strongly push to ALWAYS get a pre-shot test is so you don't administer a shot when numbers are low and you won't be home to manage the numbers.

If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet, you'll see I was a testaholic. I tested a lot. (I like data.) She was also notorious for early, fast drops. It was a matter of safety. If you give Korey a treat every time you test, he will begin to associate testing with treats. These guys are smart! Positive reinforcement works. Most members use freeze dried chicken or other freeze dried proteins as treats. If you look at Suzanne's spreadsheet, she tested a fair amount, as well. You don't need to test as much as we did. The minimum number of tests that are needed are 4 -- your two pre-shot tests and at least one test during both the AM and PM cycles.
 
When I look at his spreadsheet, I would like to know when the wet food and when the dry food is given- and on which days? Like I said, low carb wet food snacks can really help smooth things out. Good job getting some tests this weekend. An automatic feeder is indispensable for a person who is gone during most of the day.
 
Stephanie and Korey said:
I don't always test before giving insulin. When I do his numbers are pretty high. It's partly a new habit and then I worry about testing too much. He's not so happy about the testing I do.
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It is a new routine for sure. Try to keep it positive with lots of affirmation and low carb snacks like freeze dried pure meat treats.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
When I look at his spreadsheet, I would like to know when the wet food and when the dry food is given- and on which days? Like I said, low carb wet food snacks can really help smooth things out. Good job getting some tests this weekend. An automatic feeder is indispensable for a person who is gone during most of the day.
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I left comments about which days. I feed one can before his insulin and 1/4 cup dry as a snack that he usually eats an hour later. I'd like to move him to LC wet but I'm worried about doing it safely.
 
You’re doing great for everything being so new. It looks like you are still feeding a wet dry combo. Food transitions need to be made very slowly and along with testing to see how low he can go. The blue numbers that you caught this weekend are extremely safe numbers. Do not worry about those blue numbers. As I said, low carb wet snacks at +2 and +4 can really help prevent steep drops. Please make sure that your AMPS and PMPS tests are taken before you feed him. That’s the only way to know what his real BG is before the food elevates his BG. Then you can know if it is even safe to administer the insulin. If you are taking him for a curve at the vet on Thursday (and you can really get more accurate curves yourself at home) please get all the curve data from them. His numbers will be higher than at home most likely, because he will be under a lot of stress at the vet.

I feel like we have already thrown a lot at you in terms of new information. I definitely recommend reading all of the yellow sticky notes on this ProZinc forum. Don’t worry if it’s overwhelming. You can read and re-read them. To most people, it’s overwhelming and somewhat incomprehensible at first- especially when we are stressed and worried about our cats and are worried about whether we will do things correctly, or whether we will harm our cats that we love so much.
 
Stephanie and Korey said:
I left comments about which days. I feed one can before his insulin and 1/4 cup dry as a snack that he usually eats an hour later. I'd like to move him to LC wet but I'm worried about doing it safely.
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Yep. All food transitions should be done gradually - over the course of a week or even two. If you are home testing, then you are in control and can steer his numbers and keep him safe. You would just very gradually reduce the dry food and see how his numbers go- and we can help you make dose changes based upon the numbers you are seeing.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yep. All food transitions should be done gradually - over the course of a week or even two. If you are home testing, then you are in control and can steer his numbers and keep him safe. You would just very gradually reduce the dry food and see how his numbers go- and we can help you make dose changes based upon the numbers you are seeing.
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Thank you so much for this. I can't get a midday test until the weekend. We are at half a cup right now so I'll drop it to 1/4 cup on Saturday and see how it goes.
 
Any tests today? or more for last night? I'm thinking that with the blue number at only +2 last night that he most likely went lower and possible into green (since he was far from nadir.) If his morning AMPS was high, then it's likely he did dip low last night (not saying too low, but low... we can't know.) I was just checking in to see how he is doing. :-)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Any tests today? or more for last night? I'm thinking that with the blue number at only +2 last night that he most likely went lower and possible into green (since he was far from nadir.) If his morning AMPS was high, then it's likely he did dip low last night (not saying too low, but low... we can't know.) I was just checking in to see how he is doing. :)
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I just tested him and he is at 143. I'm afraid to give the 6 units. I was worried about him last night so I tested to check after 2 hours. I didnt test this morning. I fed him and he is destroying cold food from the fridge.

What should I do about his insulin tonight?
 
Yes, yes, and yes. I just retested about 30 minutes after feeding and he's at 163. From what I read, I shouldn't give him insulin unless he goes over 200. Is that correct?
 
Stephanie and Korey said:
Yes, yes, and yes. I just retested about 30 minutes after feeding and he's at 163. From what I read, I shouldn't give him insulin unless he goes over 200. Is that correct?
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You can skip tonight or give a token dose of maybe 2 or 3 units. If you skip entirely he will probably go very high, but we could see how it goes. The 200 number is a guideline that gradually gets reduced over time as you gather data. We don’t have much data.
 
Just checking in on his spreadsheet today. I see he did just fine last night and wasn’t much higher than usual this morning. I’m glad you didn’t do a total skip because I think he would have been much higher this morning. It’s more good data to have.
 
I need advice on testing. For the fasting test Korey is hungry and has no patience for testing. I give him pats and treats but I basically hold him down. It is much easier to test him once he has eaten if I'm doing a curve or a spot check. He is relaxed then. It's really easy to test when he is full and sitting in his sunny spot.
 
Stephanie and Korey said:
I need advice on testing. For the fasting test Korey is hungry and has no patience for testing. I give him pats and treats but I basically hold him down. It is much easier to test him once he has eaten if I'm doing a curve or a spot check. He is relaxed then. It's really easy to test when he is full and sitting in his sunny spot.
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How many minutes after eating would you be able to get the test? Five minutes?
 
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