New member 7-6-2022

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josette

josette

Member Since 2022
New member introducing myself and Oscar who is 11 saw the vet on the 13th for bloodwork and diagnosed may 16. Staying by the water bowels and lots of peeing meant trip to vet. Sugar in urine. Bloodwork showed 377 blood glucose.

he had been eating friskies pate one can a day and dry chicken and rice food to graze. Also getting Greenies treats. When we took him to the vets on the 13th we took away the treats and dry food. On the Monday 16th we got the results and vet did a big test and it was then 387. So he started Prozinc at 2 units twice a day.

Since I was so upset he saw us 4 days later and bg was 310. One week later it was 295.

then he increased it to 2-1/2 and two weeks later went to 300. So now he wanted to increase it to 3-1.2 and I was concerned about the sharp increase so I only went to 3 units and two weeks later bg went to 368. He told me to go to 3-1/2

now here we are at two weeks later and I did not go to 3-1/2 or 3 which did not give me a good feeling so I went back to 2 units twice a day.

I also asked for a referral to an internal med specialist as my faith in my vet is waivering. And tomorrow we have another bg test.

No I have not done home testing ad vet wanted to be the tester.

can you give me some guidance as I am so I overwhelmed . Plus supposed to go on vacation at end of this month and I am besides myself as what to do
 
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Ooofff yeah! Was the vet testing all day aka an in vet curve where they got in like 5-6 tests over a 12 or so hour period? If they were testing the blood glucose soon after you were giving the insulin shot in the morning it could still be high because it wasn’t his lowest point of the day, usually 4-6 hours after you administer insulin. I would definitely urge you to test at home because my cats numbers were far higher from being stressed at the vet. It’s scary at first but my cat and I are both used to it now! There are other people here that will give you better advice than I could but I would start with the home testing to see what kind of numbers you are getting at home between 4-6 hours after the insulin and definitely wouldn’t increase the dose anymore until you do that
 
Hi and welcome Josette and Oscar to the forum.
It can be overwhelming in the beginning, especially if you vet is not up to date with all the latest in cat diabetes treatments.
First I am going to give you a link for new Members which you will find has a lot of useful information in it and how you can help us help you with Oscar.
HELP US HELP YOU
If you can get your signature set up that will tell us all about Oscar so we don’t have to keep asking you about him.

I would also recommend you think about hometesting the blood glucose. I know your vet wants to do it but you will get much better results if you start doing it yourself for several reasons…….cats get stressed at the vet and the BG numbers are not reliable and can be higher than they really are and then dose can be adjusted by the vet when it maybe should not be; if you monitor daily you can see if the dose of insulin is working, only every so often at the vet makes it hard to get the best dose; it is much much safer for Oscar to be hometesting, you need to be testing before every dose to see it is safe to give the insulin.
If sounds scary but it really isn’t and Oscar will get very used to it very quickly.
Here is a link to HOMETESTING HINTS AND LINKS

If you are going on vacation at the end of the month, I would definitely start hometesting the blood glucose so that you have a good idea what the dose is doing. Have you thought about what you are going to do with him while you are away?

I am glad you did not increase the dose any further at the moment. I am going to tag @FrostD as she is a Prozinc user and she will help you with the dose.
 
Welcome josette and Oscar you couldn't have found a better forum than this one
To change the year in your title look to the right you will see Thread Tools. That on that then tap on Edit Thread , fix the year and tap Save
I would definitely start home testing it's the only way to keep Oscar safe

We also increase or decrease by 0.25 units/at a time not half units
Do you have the syringes with half unit markings?
They make them easier when increasing or decreasing by 0.25 units

If you have a Walmart by you go buy The Relion Premier Classic it's a human meter or order it online ,most of us use them because the strips for a pet meter are way too expensive
Our numbers are based on human meters anyway
The meter is 9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips make sure you get the test strips that go with that meter
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
Some cotton rounds

I'll post this for you
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
Take a look at the lancets ,you will see one side points up, that's the side you want to poke with
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
You can also put a thin layer of vaseline on the ear ,to help the blood bead up
A video one of our members posted
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

On the video she is using a pet meter with a human meter you don't have to put a code in

You can read all about prozinc here ,read all the yellow stickys
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
 
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To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine

Good you took away the freebies and dry food and rice they are all too high in carbs
The Friskies pate is fine, we feed our cats more than twice a day, bigger meal in the AM and PM after you test the BG , then smaller meals during each 12 hour cycle
We like to feed 6% carbs or less
Also have some med and high carb wet food at home in case you have to bring Oscar's BG up in case he drops too low
I'll give you some suggestions and our food chart

Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. That Friskies has

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/


Freeze dried treats
https://www.chewy.com/halo-liv-littles-grain-free-100/dp/29214

You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1
 
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I am quite concerned about the dose with those BGs.

In addition to the questions above -
Did the vet run a fructosamine?

Any chance he had an infection at time of diagnosis? The bloodwork and urinalysis would have shown that.

Can you confirm you have U40 syringes? They would say U40 on the side of the barrel and have a red cap.

If the vet based the entire diagnosis and dose changes off a single spot check in BG, that is poor form indeed and tells me your vet does not know much about FD. Not a lot of vets do, so most of us just look for one that's willing to listen, learn, and write scripts :smuggrin:

If he did not have ketones at diagnosis, I am inclined to say reduce to 1U (0.5U is safer) until you can get some home tests in. Like others said, we do 0.25U dose changes, usually only once a week with the numbers he's seeing. Larger changes can overshoot a good dose and lead to what we call bouncing - BG drops lower/faster than they're used to and the liver dumps stored glycogen and counterregulatory hormones in order to spike BG back up. Many times the low BG is not actually life threatening, but in the case of a possible overdose it definitely might be.

When you start testing, focus on testing before each shot (withhold food for 2 hours before the shot). Then again about 4 to 6 hours after your shot, as that is when the lowest BG occurs (no need to withhold food).
 
I did find the signature page.

To answer question the vet did a full bloodwork (2 pages full) . No ketones . A fructosomine test was not done at that time. He just did the spot check every two weeksafter initial diagnosis. Yes I have U40 syringes but they do not have 1/2 inch marks. Just bought a new box full….ugggh

Had a spot test 7/7/22 and number came down to 357….that was 3-1/2 hours after shot. I asked when do you want to see us and the vet tech said since we are going to the internal medicine clinic on august 23 she did not need to see us. Just keep doing what we are doing.

I know a lady who does rescues and recommended this group. She has a diabetic cat and lives close to my neighborhood. Her 17 year old son helps her and he will be here 7 AM and 7 PM each day I am away.

Have a meter from hubby and supplies will be here tomorrow. I will post as soon as I can get blood and my anxiety lessens….

I do give him treats, Purebites freeze dried chicken and Stella and Chewy freeze dried dinner morsels rabbit, that I rehydrate and make a “soup”. He slurps that down!

forgot to add that Oscar is FIV positive. Vet didn’t know if that affected everything.
 
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@Suzanne & Darcy do you know anything about FIV+ status affecting diabetes? For the life of me I can't remember the username of the CG for the cat who had it, underwent that long treatment, and ended up in remission. I am not sure if that was coincidence or not.

Do not worry about the half unit markings. Use up what you have, do your best to estimate consistently.

When do you leave for vacation?

Breathe :bighug: one step at a time, we are here to help. In about 2 weeks time this will all feel much less overwhelming.
 
josette said:
I did find the signature page.

To answer question the vet did a full bloodwork (2 pages full) . No ketones . A fructosomine test was not done at that time. He just did the spot check every two weeksafter initial diagnosis. Yes I have U40 syringes but they do not have 1/2 inch marks. Just bought a new box full….ugggh

Had a spot test 7/7/22 and number came down to 357….that was 3-1/2 hours after shot. I asked when do you want to see us and the vet tech said since we are going to the internal medicine clinic on august 23 she did not need to see us. Just keep doing what we are doing.

I know a lady who does rescues and recommended this group. She has a diabetic cat and lives close to my neighborhood. Her 17 year old son helps her and he will be here 7 AM and 7 PM each day I am away.

Have a meter from hubby and supplies will be here tomorrow. I will post as soon as I can get blood and my anxiety lessens….

I do give him treats, Purebites freeze dried chicken and Stella and Chewy freeze dried dinner morsels rabbit, that I rehydrate and make a “soup”. He slurps that down!

forgot to add that Oscar is FIV positive. Vet didn’t know if that affected everything.
Click to expand...
I do have two FIV + cats as well. @FrostD I think you are thinking of a member who went through the FIP treatment and was cured.
 
FrostD said:
I am quite concerned about the dose with those BGs.

In addition to the questions above -
Did the vet run a fructosamine?

Any chance he had an infection at time of diagnosis? The bloodwork and urinalysis would have shown that.

Can you confirm you have U40 syringes? They would say U40 on the side of the barrel and have a red cap.

If the vet based the entire diagnosis and dose changes off a single spot check in BG, that is poor form indeed and tells me your vet does not know much about FD. Not a lot of vets do, so most of us just look for one that's willing to listen, learn, and write scripts :smuggrin:

If he did not have ketones at diagnosis, I am inclined to say reduce to 1U (0.5U is safer) until you can get some home tests in. Like others said, we do 0.25U dose changes, usually only once a week with the numbers he's seeing. Larger changes can overshoot a good dose and lead to what we call bouncing - BG drops lower/faster than they're used to and the liver dumps stored glycogen and counterregulatory hormones in order to spike BG back up. Many times the low BG is not actually life threatening, but in the case of a possible overdose it definitely might be.

When you start testing, focus on testing before each shot (withhold food for 2 hours before the shot). Then again about 4 to 6 hours after your shot, as that is when the lowest BG occurs (no need to withhold food).
Click to expand...
 
You mention reducing to 1U, but in .25 increments. Each change for a week. The box of 100 syringes I bought last week from the vet don’t have 1/2 lines . Wild guess where 1-3/4 U is. So should I get his testing numbers tomorrow myself, and post them and go buy syringes with 1/2 lines?

Can I get the syringes over the counter? Any place special?
 
josette said:
You mention reducing to 1U, but in .25 increments. Each change for a week. The box of 100 syringes I bought last week from the vet don’t have 1/2 lines . Wild guess where 1-3/4 U is. So should I get his testing numbers tomorrow myself, and post them and go buy syringes with 1/2 lines?

Can I get the syringes over the counter? Any place special?
Click to expand...
I would start home testing now and post them I'll give you the link to how to set your spreadsheet up that we use to record our cats BG on.
If you having trouble setting it up just ask , we have a member who will be glad to do it for you .
These are the only U-40 syringes with half unit markings I know of
https://shoppettest.com/advocate-pe...MInfTou_Xv-AIVkfLjBx0yOA4DEAQYASABEgKfMPD_BwE

Even though it doesn't say it on the box on the review section a woman does mention they are half unit markings

Spreadsheet link
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

You can read all about prozinc , all the yellow stickys





https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

About the spreadsheet and how to enter the tests
Take a look at mine it says Tyler's Spreadsheet at the end of my signature to see what it looks like , he is in remission knock on wood so you won't see much testing , go to the top of my SS tap on 2020 you will see more testing
AMPS means first test in the AM U - insulin dose. +2 means 2 hours after giving insulin and so on. PMPS first test in the PM and so on

When you start testing you can start a new post and link this previous post to it,the link is all the way up top above that pic of that cat on the left in that long line

Your new post you can do it like this
Date Oscar AMPS# and your other tests after that we need to see how he's doing on the dose in order for us to give you advice . We want to see how low he's dropping
To add additional tests. Look to the right you will see Thread Tools tap in that then tap on Edit Thread. Add your other tests and hit Save. Then you can add his PMPS # to that and additional tests

Pic of half unit markings
49823063143_3437e9e997_o.jpg
 
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I am recommending going straight down to 1U, not doing it in increments. Just until you get some rest data in to make sure he isn't going too low. But be sure to monitor ketones, the opposite risk of going hypo is DKA (caused by not enough insulin +infection/inflammation+ inappetence/not enough food). But hypo is the more immediate risk right now.

Once you get about 4 days worth of data then we can decide whether to increase and by how much.
 
FrostD said:
I am quite concerned about the dose with those BGs.

In addition to the questions above -
Did the vet run a fructosamine?

Any chance he had an infection at time of diagnosis? The bloodwork and urinalysis would have shown that.

Can you confirm you have U40 syringes? They would say U40 on the side of the barrel and have a red cap.

If the vet based the entire diagnosis and dose changes off a single spot check in BG, that is poor form indeed and tells me your vet does not know much about FD. Not a lot of vets do, so most of us just look for one that's willing to listen, learn, and write scripts :smuggrin:

If he did not have ketones at diagnosis, I am inclined to say reduce to 1U (0.5U is safer) until you can get some home tests in. Like others said, we do 0.25U dose changes, usually only once a week with the numbers he's seeing. Larger changes can overshoot a good dose and lead to what we call bouncing - BG drops lower/faster than they're used to and the liver dumps stored glycogen and counterregulatory hormones in order to spike BG back up. Many times the low BG is not actually life threatening, but in the case of a possible overdose it definitely might be.

When you start testing, focus on testing before each shot (withhold food for 2 hours before the shot). Then again about 4 to 6 hours after your shot, as that is when the lowest BG occurs (no need to withhold food).
Click to expand...

I have started to test this week and going out of town tomorrow afternoon for 8 nights. Someone is coming over at his both shot times but is not testing. You said above to reduce dose to 1U. Do you think it is okay to do this starting tonight so I don’t have to worry about his number going too low.
 
josette said:
I have started to test this week and going out of town tomorrow afternoon for 8 nights. Someone is coming over at his both shot times but is not testing. You said above to reduce dose to 1U. Do you think it is okay to do this starting tonight so I don’t have to worry about his number going too low.
Click to expand...
I can tag @FrostD Melissa for you
You do need to do a lot more testing for both cycles especially at night :cat:
Oh did you ever get the syringes with half unit markings I suggested?
I will re post it again for you
These are the only U-40 syringes with half unit markings I know of
https://shoppettest.com/advocate-pe...MInfTou_Xv-AIVkfLjBx0yOA4DEAQYASABEgKfMPD_BwE

Even though it doesn't say it on the box on the review section a woman does mention they are half unit markings
 
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