New member 3/30/2022 | Are these BG numbers considered as a remission?

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Just 10% salmon should be OK.

It's interesting to see he's coming down a bit after no shot this morning. We'll see where he is later, but he might need another dose reduction.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Just 10% salmon should be OK.

It's interesting to see he's coming down a bit after no shot this morning. We'll see where he is later, but he might need another dose reduction.
Click to expand...

He ate less this morning, so could be that.
After i tested him at +5.25, he ate a little more wet food, and some dry food.
About 2.25 hours later he ate more from the wet food, this time looks like he loved the beef and chicken.

I'm afriad the BG will go way up at PMPS because he didn't got a shot this morning.

I'll update as soon as possible.
 
Update:

The PMPS was 388. The vet recommended the 2 units. so that's what i gave.
I hope to finally go to the vet tomorrow and take the syringes, so if i'll need to reduce dose by 1/2 a unit,
i will be able to do it.

He now ate only from the canned wet food. I also put a bowl near with the diabetic dry food, but he didn't touch it.
Later i'll try to see if he will want some of the dry food (i'll wait 3 hours).
 
Hi,

This morning AMPS is 192. I'm not able to stall and check again until a few hours later.
The vet said not to give a shot, and check again in about 3 hours (i hope i'll be back on time).
Meanwhile i had to give him something to eat. gave him a small amount from the wet food.
 
gingel said:
Hi,

This morning AMPS is 192. I'm not able to stall and check again until a few hours later.
The vet said not to give a shot, and check again in about 3 hours (i hope i'll be back on time).
Meanwhile i had to give him something to eat. gave him a small amount from the wet food.
Click to expand...

Is the vet suggesting you give the dose in 3 hours if the BG is higher? That will put you way off schedule.
You could have given him his normal breakfast if you were skipping. It’s important that cats eat well. It’s not a good idea to skip the insulin and not give a good meal. That is inviting ketones into the picture.

Are you still using a pen? If so, I would go back to giving him 1 unit twice a day and see if you can shoot both the am and pm cycles. He probably needs something between the 1 and 2 units but that’s not possible without the syringes.:)
 
Thank you for the response.
The vet didn't say to give the dose in 3 hours, just to check the BG so we'll know what's going on.
I'll ask someone to give him some more food now.
I'll talk to the Vet about maybe trying 1 unit.

I saw pictures of the syringes, and i understand they have 0.5 marks. But, how do you measure 0.25 ?
 
The reason I suggest 1 unit is because 2 units does not let you shoot both cycles. If you halve the dose and divide it between the 2 cycles you will have more success.

Are they the U100 3/10 30 or 31 gauge 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes?
They have an orange top.
To measure 0.25 units …..it is half way between the 0 units and the 0.5 unit mark.
Look part way down THIS LINK on fine dosing for more information
 
Hi,

This morning was 452, and vet recommended 3 units. At the end that's what i gave.
at +6 the BG was 65. I think i'm no longer giving more than 2 units.
Now at PMPS the BG was 268, So the vet said to check again in 3 hours, and if over 300 then to give 2 units.
I guess this will now move the schedule way off if i'll give a shot later.
 
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I tested the BG after 3 hours and it was 315. Gave 2 units.
About the spreadsheet, i marked under the units: 2 @15
Where to write the BG test result before the shot (BG 315) ?
 
Your vet is dosing on the preshot BG. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir or lowest BG in the cycle.
Also Lantus like consistency. Chopping and changing the dose will give you wonky numbers.
It is best to stay with the one dose for at least 6 cycles before changing the dose unless the BG drops under 50 if you are doing tight regulation or 90 if you are doing SLGS method.
It would be helpful if you could choose one of the dosing methods below in the link …..you will get far better results and have a plan to follow
DOSING METHODS FOR LANTUS

Re where to put the BG results. You put the +12 result in the PMPS column. If you stall or give the dose later you put that BG into the same PMPS column and stack them. So you would do have 268@+12; 315@+15. Then you start the cycle. If you took a test 5 hours after giving the shot, it would be at +5. Giving the dose 3 hours late means you have to give the next dose 3 hours later as well. You can get back on schedule by going 15 minutes early each cycle or 1/2 hour once a day until you get back on schedule.

I would strongly recommend you bet some insulin syringes so you can give doses less than in 1 unit increments. Otherwise you will not get anywhere. Cats respond to doses as little as 0.25 units or less..
The insulin syringes you need are for Lantus……..U100 3/10 30 or 31 gauge 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes. They have an orange cap.
They can be bought at Walmart or pharmacies which sell diabetic supplies.
 
Hi,

I went to the Vet today to take some syringes, but he only has u100 syringes which are 50 units.
so it's not good for 0.5 unit or 0.25 unit.
I'll check at a pharmacy to see if they sell the syringes with 30 units. Are they all come with 1/2 units marks?
(I hope i don't need prescription to buy them. If yes, the Vet said he will order for me).

In the meanwhile i was supposed to start to give 1 unit today, but i accidentally turn the knob of the insulin pen
to 2 units (after i primed it with 1 unit). I only noticed it when i gave the injection and heard two clicks from the pen knob. :banghead:

Also, i really don't know which dose protocol to use.
I am giving mostly wet canned food for a few days now. Only gave him a small amount of the diabetic dry food yesterday and today,
because the BG went down to around 50 at @6.5 .

He will probably will not get a shot this evening.
Tomorrow i'll give 1 unit (the BG will probably go up again to the 400).
i'll do the 1 unit for a few days, hoping i'll be able to give a shot twice a day.
 
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The skipped shot last night let him go too high, and he still has some of the larger depot left. We don't want him below 90 though.

I would reduce to 0.5U.twice a day. I know it's a bit hard to measure, but he really needs twice a day dosing
 
I asked at a pharmacy today, and they don't have the syringes.
The vet said he will order them. I'll try to ask at another pharmacy.

So right now i can't do 0.5 unit. If i'll give a shot of 1 unit with the insulin pen without priming it first, the dose should be less than 1 unit?

The U100 3/10 syringes are 10 units ? Edit: OK, now i see in google that they are 30 units.

The PMPS this evening was 137.
 
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gingel said:
I asked at a pharmacy today, and they don't have the syringes.
The vet said he will order them. I'll try to ask at another pharmacy.

So right now i can't do 0.5 unit. If i'll give a shot of 1 unit with the insulin pen without priming it first, the dose should be less than 1 unit?

The U100 3/10 syringes are 10 units ? Edit: OK, now i see in google that they are 30 units.

The PMPS this evening was 137.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry I don't know, I can't say for sure. I just know he's going too low on the 1 unit. If you skip he's then at risk for ketones and possibly DKA
 
I'm still looking for the syringes.

Yesterday evening he didn't get a shot. Today AMPS the BG was 253, and the Vet said not to give a shot,
because i can only do 1 unit. He said to check again after 3 hours. at @3.25 the BG was 170. at @7.25 177.
The BG went down without a shot?
 
Those are all somewhat close to meter variance, but also yes it seems his pancreas might be working a little bit to help bring BG down, but not much.
 
I finally found the U100 3/100 syringes. But the ones i found don't have half unit marks.
Also the needle length is 13mm (which is 1/2 inch). Could not find shorter needle.

The last few days the Vet said not to give a shot because i wasn't able to give less than 1 unit.
But you can see that even without insulin the BG dropped a little during the day.

This morning the AMPS was 360. Vet said to try the 0.5 unit. So by eye i filled the syringe between the 0 and 1 unit.
Also i didn't insert the whole needle inside the scruff like i did with the shorter pen needle. The fur was dry and no smell of insulin after.
At @6.5 the BG was 77.

So i'm not sure that in the evening i will be able to give another 0.5 unit.

What do you think should be the minimum BG to give the 0.5 unit at the evening?

Thank you.

Update: The PMPS was 130, so Vet said not to give a shot.
Does he need less than 0.5 unit ?

@Wendy&Neko @FrostD @Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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Hi,

This is from today (4/17/22):
AMPS 430 (0.5 unit), @+4 155, @+6.5 110

Again, not sure about the evening shot.
If it will be 200 or more, do you think i can give 0.5 unit this evening?

Edit: Any advice about the PMPS? I have an hour and half before i need to check the BG.

I appreciate any help. Thank you.
 
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Have you taken the PMPS yet? It is not good to be having so many skipped doses. When this happens, the dose needs to be adjusted so that you can shoot both so cycles.
 
Hi,

The PMPS yesterday was 137. Didn't know what to do, so in the end i skipped.

This morning the AMPS was 197.
I asked the Vet maybe to give less than 0.5 unit, maybe about 0.25 unit (i can't really be precise because the syringes don't have half marks),
but he said not to give a shot. We have an experience of the BG dropping by 100 during the day even without a shot.

Maybe i should give him a small amount from the Royal canin diabetic dry food, so the BG will not drop that much even with 0.5 unit?
(I'm giving him only canned wet food for the last 10 days or so)

I'll talk to the Vet again about adjusting the dose to less than 0.5 unit, although this might be difficult with the syringes i have now.

Thank you for the help.
 
Most of the BGs you are skipping are actually BGs you could have giving the dose to as they are high enough, especially if you are hometesting. I’m not sure why you skipped the dose when the PMPS was over 200 3 days in a row. And you had 3 AMPS where they were yellow and pink…..all very shootable numbers.
I would recommend you start getting some tests in during the PM cycles as well as the am cycles as cats often drop lower at night and the pm cycle is just as important as the am cycle.

If Simba was my cat I would give him 0.25 units and see if you can shoot both cycles. It is not good to keep skipping doses.
If he is heading towards remission, you want a strong remission and to do that you are going to have to shot lower numbers than you are doing now.
Would you be happy to give 0.25 units? . And I would just feed the normal low carb for now but get a +2 test to start with.
 
Hi,

These 3 days where i skipped the shot was before i had the syringes, and i was only able to give 1 unit using the pen needles.
We already knew at that point that even 1 unit is dropping the BG to almost 50 after 6 hours,
and the PMPS is again low for another shot.

I only started to use syringes this saturday, and only then i was able to give 0.5 unit.

How to do you measure 0.25 unit in a syringe without half unit marks? Just do it by eye?
 
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gingel said:
These 3 days where i skipped the shot was before i had the syringes, and i was only able to give 1 unit using the pen needles.
We already knew at that point that even 1 unit is dropping the BG to almost 50 after 6 hours.
Click to expand...
Ok. Makes sense.


gingel said:
How to do you measure 0.25 unit in a syringe without half unit marks? Just do it by eye?
Click to expand...
To measure 0.25 units you need to imagine the 1/2 unit mark and then draw it up to half way between the 0 mark and the imagined 1/2 unit mark. I only used 1 unit syringes for years and measured 1/4 units often. I used a magnifying glass and a good light always.

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I was ready to start giving 0.25 unit, but if at the beginning (a month ago) the Vet told me to give high dose, now when the BG is at 200 or lower,
he's saying not to give a shot (even not 0.25 unit). I really don't know what to do.
For example today the AMPS was 203, @+3.25 122, @+7.25 128 , without a shot.
 
Hi Kobi,
It does look from the numbers that Simba’s pancreas is spluttering but I do think he is still needing some insulin.
Can you also get some tests in during the pm cycle to see what he is doing during that cycle, even if you don’t give insulin.
If he is going to go into remission, we want him to have a strong remission and to do that he needs to have the BGs consistently in green numbers before stopping insulin.
You also need to look at the TWO DOSING METHODS and decide which one you want to follow. If he is eating any dry food you will need to follow SLGS
I think it would be best if you now started to post on the Lantus forum where there are people there 24 hours a day who use lantus to help you. Here is the link to the LANTUS FORUM
When you post there put in the subject line the date, then Simba, then his AMPS or PMPS BG and then say need dosing help.
So it looks like this 4/20 Simba AMPS XXX. NEED DOSING HELP
Also link this thread to the new thread so others can read the history.
I’ll tag @tiffmaxee and @Bandit's Mom to keep an eye out for you on the Lantus forum.
 
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I appreciate the help.
I'm giving only wet food (animonda carny canned food) for the last 12 days.

Does SLGS is a more conservative method? With this method he has a lower chance of the BG dropping too much?

I also have a question regarding the food.
I'm giving him a larger amount at the morning (after AMPS), and then small amounts, about 3 more times during the day, then again larger amount at the evening after PMPS.
About how much grams for a day, i'm using the feeding recommendation that is written on the can.
Is it ok to feed during the day?

Also, it does looks like that with the wet canned food, it's keeping him full for less time, and after 2-3 hours he's asking for food again.
I think with the dry food it wasn't like that.
He is a cat that was used to free feeding, and he was used to eat small amounts during the day whenever he wanted.
 
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Hi and welcome to the FDMB. Bron is in Australia and fast asleep. SLGS is the more conservative method and looking at how well your cat is responding I would follow TR.

As to how much to feed, is your cat underweight, overweight or at the right weight? Usually the suggested feeding amount on the can is way too much. However if your cat lost weight before diagnosis and needs to gain then feed as much as he needs. I feed my two who are not diabetic raw food and less than the bag suggests. They would eat nonstop if I let them. I like your feeding schedule but it’s fine to free feed. Just pick up the food 2 hours before amps/pmps to make sure the bg is not food influenced.
 
Hi,

He did lost a bit more than 1KG (a little more than 2.5 lbs) before he was diagnosed. He was about 5.5-5.7KG (12-12.5 lbs), but not considered overweight i think, he is just a big cat.
I checked his weight yesterday, and although i'm using regular human scale (not very accurate), he seems to gained almost 0.45KG (1 lbs) since last month.
 
That is good some of the weight has been regained.
I’m looking at your spreadsheet. You really do need to be giving some more insulin. Simba is doing really well and could well go off insulin and into remission but you want that remission to be a strong remission. And to do that you need to gradually reduce the dose down to a drop of insulin while having the BGs in green.
I suggested you start posting on the Lantus forum …I’ve giving you the link in post 78…..so that you can get daily advice on the dose.
Don’t just let it drift along without doing anything. Simba’s pancreas still needs some support from insulin while it heals.
Also try and get some tests in during the pm cycle.
I can’t offer any dosing advice as I don’t know where you are up to in the cycle at the moment.
@gingel
 
Hi,
I understand your advice regarding the insulin, but my mother want to follow
the Vet instructions, and he's saying not to give a shot with these numbers.
It is a holiday and weekend here now, but i'll talk to the vet on sunday,
about giving him a small dose.
I feel very frustrated with all this.

Thank you for the support.
 
I have to say I agree with Bron. We have seen so many go off insulin too soon and fall out of remission never to go into remission again. It’s good that you are testing to catch higher bg.
 
Hi,

I wanted to make an update on my cat Simba, and ask if you think his situation considered as a remission.
Just a recall, he was diagnosed almost 2.5 months ago.
We gave insulin shots for about a month, and then the numbers started to drop fast,
so we stopped with the shots.
"Bron and Sheba (GA)" and "tiffmaxee" told me it is recommended to continue with the shots, but my mother
wanted to follow the Vet and to stop giving shots. (I wasn't able to convince her to continue the insulin with a very small dose)

Anyhow, he's off the insulin for almost 45 days.
I continued to monitor the BG at least twice a day, and about 10 days after we stopped the shots,
the PMPS were all green, but the AMPS are still blue (mostly between 106 - 130 in the last 14 days.).
The spreadsheet is updated so you can see all the BG results.
I did checked a few times during the day, and he seems to drop below 100.

Today i checked 3 hours after AMPS and it was 76.
He eats a large breakfast (wet food) after i check the BG at AMPS.

The Vet told me to bring him at the end of the month to do the fructosamine blood test again.
Do you think his BG numbers are considered a remission?


Thank you.
 
We would say close but not quite if you want a strong remission. Try giving a snack at +9 and see if the amps comes down. Keep monitoring in case the BG starts to rise. I hope the snack helps.
 
I usually give him a snack at +4 or +5 after PMPS.
I'll try tomorrow morning at +9.

I thought that the BG usually going up after eating.
 
Good. Keep doing that.if you see an AMBG of PMBG test 3-4 hours after eating and see if it’s green.
 
I gave him a snack at +4.5 and +9.5 after PMBG.
I checked at +9.5 after PMBG, it was 124.
AMBG was 96. Maybe i should give him a snack at around +6 and +9 ?
(Not sure i'll be able to give him a snack at around PMBG+6 every day, it's very late).
 
If you want to provide a snack late in the cycle, do you have access to purchasing a timed feeder?

Also, can you start a new thread? We try to cap threads at around 50 posts.
 
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