New Member - 2 kitties with diabees

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sluchetti

Member Since 2013
Hello,
I am new to FDMB, anxious to learn more about controlling diabetes. I have 2 kitties- Simba and Maxi - 6 year old brothers, dx about 8 months ago.
I have 2 other kitties, used to have 5 but my sweet Romeo, age 16.5, crossed the Rainbow Bridge on Oct 19, 2013.
I am most interested in learning about feeding these 4 kitties so they are all happy.
 
sluchetti said:
Hello,
I am new to FDMB, anxious to learn more about controlling diabetes. I have 2 kitties- Simba and Maxi - 6 year old brothers, dx about 8 months ago....I am most interested in learning about feeding these 4 kitties so they are all happy.

Are you using insulin? If yes, home testing will keep them safe. You'll need an inexpensive human glucometer, test strips, and 26-27 gauge lancets. The Arkray Glucocard 01 froum our shopping partner ADW (link at top of page) or the branded version the ReliOn Confirm from WalMart (also a shopping partner) use the smallest blood drop. Get 2 boxes of test strips and always have a spare box.

If you are on insulin, hold off on the food changes until you can home test successfully. Reducing the carb level may drop the glucose level 100 mg/dL or more.

Feed over the counter, low carb, canned food for all your kitties; Friskies pates are pretty inexpensive in the 13 oz cans. cat Info has extensive feline nutrition information and a printable food list of nutrition info for many canned foods.
 
The strips covered by the recall are marketed under the brand names Nova Max Blood Glucose Test Strips and Nova Max Plus Glucose Meter Kits. The recall affects certain lots of the strips distributed in the U.S., Canada, Chile, Peru, Argentina, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica and a half-dozen other countries. Nova Diabetes Care sells them through retail stores and websites.
 
alice said:
The strips covered by the recall are marketed under the brand names Nova Max Blood Glucose Test Strips and Nova Max Plus Glucose Meter Kits. The recall affects certain lots of the strips distributed in the U.S., Canada, Chile, Peru, Argentina, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica and a half-dozen other countries. Nova Diabetes Care sells them through retail stores and websites.

Did you mean to post this somewhere else?
 
Thats great and so kind of you to adopt Two diabetic cats!!!

let us know what the insulin is (if any) and dose, what food you are currently giving and if you are home testing.. and we can go from there! Those are the key factors to regulation and remission!

Wendy
 
Hi again,
My two kitties are on insulin Maxi is on 5 units lantus - I just reviewed his curve with his vet, Simba is going to be on lantus switched from PZI soon, he is currently on 4 units PZI.... I have them on DM wet food... some Fancy Feast wet only.
Thank you for the suggestions for canned food...this is costing me a fortune!!
I am not sure how much food is needed for 4 kitties? Right now they get 1/2 can of DM wet mixed and 2 cans of fancy feast wet in am, and again in pm...
They seem content with that...they are not losing weight so I guess this is all good.
I am testing pre feed/insulin.
Thanks again
 
Thank you, I posted a general reply
BJM said:
sluchetti said:
Hello,
I am new to FDMB, anxious to learn more about controlling diabetes. I have 2 kitties- Simba and Maxi - 6 year old brothers, dx about 8 months ago....I am most interested in learning about feeding these 4 kitties so they are all happy.

Are you using insulin? If yes, home testing will keep them safe. You'll need an inexpensive human glucometer, test strips, and 26-27 gauge lancets. The Arkray Glucocard 01 froum our shopping partner ADW (link at top of page) or the branded version the ReliOn Confirm from WalMart (also a shopping partner) use the smallest blood drop. Get 2 boxes of test strips and always have a spare box.

If you are on insulin, hold off on the food changes until you can home test successfully. Reducing the carb level may drop the glucose level 100 mg/dL or more.

Feed over the counter, low carb, canned food for all your kitties; Friskies pates are pretty inexpensive in the 13 oz cans. cat Info has extensive feline nutrition information and a printable food list of nutrition info for many canned foods.
 
Just wondering if you could share your BG number, including the curve you mention. 5 units of Lantus (and 4 units of PZI) are not typical at all.

sluchetti said:
Hi again,
My two kitties are on insulin Maxi is on 5 units lantus - I just reviewed his curve with his vet, Simba is going to be on lantus switched from PZI soon, he is currently on 4 units PZI.... I have them on DM wet food... some Fancy Feast wet only.
Thank you for the suggestions for canned food...this is costing me a fortune!!
I am not sure how much food is needed for 4 kitties? Right now they get 1/2 can of DM wet mixed and 2 cans of fancy feast wet in am, and again in pm...
They seem content with that...they are not losing weight so I guess this is all good.
I am testing pre feed/insulin.
Thanks again
 
Here are the curves on my two kitties:
Maxi - is on 4 units Lantus bid:
FBS 6:30 am 302
7 am feed
7:30 am Lantus 4 units
9 am 338
11 am 261
1:30 am 219
3pm 280
5:30 pm 362
Simba: 5 units PZI (now on 4 due to vets recommendation today)
fbs 6:30 am 292
7 am feed
9 am 278
11 am 38 (rubbed honey on gums) 12 noon 79
1:30 pm 73
3pm 188
5:30 pm 432
Vet said to drop to 4 units PZI recurve in 2 weeks
Thanks for any advice
 
Please note the link for treating as if HYPO.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers.
(May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

= 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- the lowest level pre-shot for ProZinc, PZI, or other non-depot insulins.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as mid-cycle data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
To save money, you can feed them Friskies pates (they come in large cans) or just the fancy feast classic pates since they are low in carbs.

Do you want to set up a spreadsheet for both SImba and Maxi so we can get a better idea of whats going on? also will help you watch for trends. Heres how but let us know if you need help http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Any time they drop under 50 means a dose decrease. (Unless you are using an alphatrak in which case its 80 - what meter are you using?) So I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day to check for they aren't dropping under 50...

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low they are going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want them dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what their overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.


Wendy
 
Thank you for the info... spreadsheets, I will attempt to do that in the next 2 weeks. I did reduce Simba's insulin dose as per my vet.
I have them on Fancy Feast but purchased the friskies pates today. What do you think of DM dry food???
I have a bag of that from the vet.
Thanks again!
Susanne, Maxi and Simba
 
Diabetic cats need less than 10% calories from carbs as fed. Here is a chart we use - you look at column C (% calories from carbs) and ensure its under 10% : http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

All the Friskies pates and Fancy feast classic pates are good. Watch the other types as some are high carb.

The dry DM isn't on here but I believe its 13% - too high. most dry foods are too high which is why we recommend wet. (There are a few lower carb dry but can be expensive.) You can return the dry to the vet - say your cat won't eat it. They have a money back guarantee even if open.

Wendy
 
An additional piece of information to help those who are advising. Susanne's Maxi was recently (in August) hospitalized for over two weeks for DKA.
 
Thank you Venita.
Susanne, it would be good to add the DKA episode to your signature when you get one set up.
 
Thank you for the info on the food. I am going to stick with the wet pates as recommended and d/c the DM dry.
Only thing I have 4 cats, how many times a day should I feed and how many cans of wet food for 4 cats for each feeding?
Right now I feed 9 am and 9 pm but they are hungry in between, does anyone recommend a middle of the day feeding?
Also, Maxi is going back to Penn for his 4 to 6month follow up in early December. He has been very healthy since his DKA in August
Simba is going for a dental cleaning this week - very bad inflammation so that should help his glucose control
 
I know PZI not Lantus but wanted to comment on your curve a few months ago. Has the vet mentioned bouncing? When Simba was at 292 and went down low midcycle and then back up to 432, the 432 was very likely a bounce. When a cat's body experiences an unusual low it is not used to, it releases extra glucose, causing the levels to bounce up. I hope you reduced the dose the next cycle or he might get into a series of bouncing cycles.mmSome general guidelines:

We suggest a new diabetic not shoot under 200 but wait and retest in 20 minutes without feeding (which raises bg levels) to be sure the number is rising, not falling, and over 200. If over 200 with PZI, we suggest a slight reduction in dose for this shot.

Anytime you see 50 or under with PZI, a reduction in dose is in order. I am glad the vet went down but still worried about the amount of insulin. We have no cats here presently on more than 2 units of PZI.

Lantus and PZI are dosed very differently. I think it would be difficult to keep them straight and to keep track of both kitties. Could they be put on the same insulin? If not, you might post 2 separate threads here for Max and Simba so you can get accurate advice for both insulins?

Yes, many of us feed several meals a day to help support the pancreas. People with multiple cats often feed Friskies pate. As a general rule, 5-6 ounces of food per cat per day is in the right ball park.
 
Thank you for your suggestions.
I did another curve on Maxi and Simba yesterday....

Simba first: he is on 4 units PZI 9:30 am and pm
He is getting his teeth cleaned Wed - alot of inflammation
I do plan to switch him to Lantus after the cleaning..starting dose 1 unit....check glu often
Curve for Simba:
11/10/13:
8:40 am premeal 347
11 am 316
1:30 320
3:30 307
6pm 251
8 pm 253
I feel with the dental cleaning and switch to Lantus...will be monitoring and hope these come down. He eats the dry DM food as you know I will be stopping that and adding a mid day meal of friskies pate
Now for Maxi (he had a serioius bout of Pkitis and DKA hospital stay in Aug in ICU, now stable
He gets 5 units Lantus 9:30 am and pm
8:40 premeal 292
11am 290
1:30 299
3pm 239
6pm 269
8 pm 311
Dr. wants him below 250 but does not want to increase his insulin. Again, I am stopping the dry DM and adding another feed of Friskies pate in an and will recurve. He is due for his 4- 6 month return to Penn vet....she said she will look for other causes of elevated glu....
Thanks again!
 
It will be good to get rid of the dry , we should hopefully see a decrease in blood sugar in both boys when you do.

Also it would provide better information to test 3 times a day instead of an occasional curve. I hope you are always testing pre shot as it is not safe as a newbie to shoot under 200. Plus a mid cycle and/or before bed test provides so much data on how the dose is doing!!!! Many cats bounce and daily testing is the only way to spot that.

Wendy
 
Sending good dental vines to Simba. Hoping the dental takes care of the inflammation and helps to bring the BG (blood glucose) numbers down.

It sure will be easier, once you have both cats on the same insulin. Same U-100 needles, same shot times, same bottle, will make the process so much easier I imagine. You'll just have to come up with a routine, to make sure the correct cat gets the correct amount of the lantus.

Your vet may not want to increase Maxi's insulin dose, but it sure does look to me like he needs an increase.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. i have started to test pre shots but the kitties vets asked me to do a curve so I follow their advice.
Yes, I will get rid of the dry even though I only fill 1 bowl up for 4 cats,and Maxi and simba do not eat alot of it.
I sent Maxi's curve to his vet at penn, I will be bringing him in for a visit.... Simba will have his cleaning Thurs so will give his vet his curve.
Thanks again!
 
Hello,
Just an update.
Simba had 10 teeth extracted and a cleaning done last week. I am switching him over to lantus insulin, starting at 1unit and checking blood sugar pre feeds and during day..
Hope his insulin needs drop, his teeth were very bad.
Maxi is doing fine, but on 5.5 units of lantus... He returns to his vet at Univ of Penn Dec 16th and she will do a full blood and urine panel as he was dx with pancreatitis and dka- very sick for 10 days in July/Aug, this is his first follow up visit.
he is doing great. Just wish his insulin needs were lower.
Any suggestions or advice, feel free to post.
Thank you
 
Simba may see a reduction in Blood glucose once any infection clears now that the teeth are removed .

We could advise more on Maxi if you set up that spreadsheet? Really need to see some numbers. Is he still getting dry?

Wendy
 
I really need help in setting up the spreadsheets...where are they located....Thank you!!
Susanne, Simba and Maxi
 
Wendy and Tiggy,
Maxi eats wet food....Friskies pate and Fancy Feast, plain, no gravies or carb ingredients....
I had use the dry DM in the past....I was leaving out 1 bowl a day but Maxi doesn't touch it...I know this as it is right next to me and I work from home. I have 4 kitties, two are not diabetic and they graze on it...I worry about those 2 taking it completely away but that is my plan - bag is almost gone, I would return it but threw the bag away, have it in a storage container..
 
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