New member 11/3/23

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Jenn -- I'm not sure what time zone you're in. It's why I asked how many hours from now!! (This is also why we use the +hour system on the spreadsheet. Members are from all over the world and your 7:00 may be someone else's 3:00 AM. It takes a bit of getting used to.)

I know the carbs because I've been here forever!! There are actually cat food carb calculators on the web. The information on pet food labels is the guaranteed analysis vs the "as fed" values. The latter are correct but the guaranteed analysis numbers when plugged into a calculator will get you in the general neighborhood of the carb count. This is the food chart that most of us use. It covers most of the canned foods available in the US and includes the carbs.

Many of us feed our cats a raw diet. You do need to add supplements to the food, though. Cats do not need the veggies -- they are carbs. Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs will eat anything!! Cats must have taurine in their diet along with other nutrients. I buy a pre-mix from FoodFurLife. It's a powder that I mix in water and add to my cats' food.
 
I will look into foodfurlife. I have a premade mix that hours into the chicken and then I add olive oil.

Oh gotcha!! Thomas is due for his injection in 2 hours from now.

I am filling out the spreadsheet. AMPS is AM (morning) what is PS?
Dosing method? Do I write “injection” SLGS or TR what is this? What do acronyms mean?
 
Jenn Slade said:
I will look into foodfurlife. I have a premade mix that hours into the chicken and then I add olive oil.

Oh gotcha!! Thomas is due for his injection in 2 hours from now.

I am filling out the spreadsheet. AMPS is AM (morning) what is PS?
Dosing method? Do I write “injection” SLGS or TR what is this? What do acronyms mean?
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PS means preshot. Those are the preshot tests where you wit-hold food for at least 2 hours so you don’t get a food inflated bg number.

with Vetsulin, you’re only option is SLGS I believe, but Sienne will correct me if I’m wrong. I recommend you go over to the caninsulin forum and read up on all the yellow sticky notes, especially the beginners guide to caninsulin which explains the dosing method we use here: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
 
AMPS = AM Pre-Shot
PMPS = PM Pre-Shot
In other words, these are the morning and evening test values that precede when you would give an insulin shot.

The dosing method is geared toward an option you don't have with Vetsulin. SLGS comes the closest -- it means Start Low Go Slow. TR was developed for Lantus and refers to Tight Regulation (or Tight Regulation Protocol).

And I agree with Ale. I would not suggest giving a shot at that low of a pre-shot number.
 
We don’t know where he was this morning so it’s hard to know why you’re seeing these numbers. Can you get one more test in before bed time? We always like to see a +2 or around there to see where they’re headed for the night.

Btw, great job at setting up the signature and spreadsheet. Thank you!

let’s see where he’ll be in the morning @Sienne and Gabby (GA) can you check on them in the morning? I think I’m in a different time zone and it may be too late but the time I wake up and see any updates. Should we give her a dose to try in the am if he’s above 200?
 
Jenn Slade said:
You said “again” but haven’t skipped a dose. So if I skip tonight should I do another glucose? I will be going to bed soon.

He needs to eat. Should I give him his usual dry food? Could I give him some fancy feast with it?
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Sorry my bad, I was thinking of another thread. Skip tonight. It would be good to get another test before you go to bed. How long ago was the last test?

If he’s under 200, in the morning I’d skip the morning shot as well.
 
Jenn -
Can you put the amount of insulin you've given in the "U" column on the spreadsheet (U = units)? If there's no number in that column, we assume a shot has been skipped.

When. you ask about doing another glucose, do you mean getting a test? If so, yes. It's good to have some idea of what happens to your cat's numbers if you skip a shot.

Are you at home during the day? It will make a difference with regard to the dose if you're able to monitor Thomas' numbers.

@Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) :
I think she's on Eastern time. If shot time is around 7:00 EST, I'm on my way to work. I'm not very available on weekdays due to a very long and crazy workday.
 
I am EST. Yes I can do another test. Should it be two hours from last test?

I’m so confused with all this. He needs to eat. Should I give him his dry food that he has been eating? Add some fancy feast to it? I’m not sure about carbs with his numbers in a good range. I don’t even know if he would eat wet food.
 
After you do the preshot test, he can eat. You can feed him then because typically that’s when he’d be getting the shot and he needs food. Only today you skipped because of how low he was. Feed as usual for now. We’ll work on transitioning to low carb later.

In the morning, you test him before deciding if you’re giving him insulin. If he’s under 200, I’d skip again. If he’s above 200, I wouldn’t give him more than 6 units which is half @Sienne and Gabby (GA) do you agree? I defer to you on dosing.
 
Usually, we want to test 2 hours after the shot but today since there was no shot, just test him before you do to bed.

You only withold food for 2 hours before the preshot tests not for all the other ones. For the preshot tests, you test, feed then give the shot. With caninsulin, you need to wait 30 minutes after he eats and before you give insulin because it just hard and fast
 
Ok I will test before I go to sleep.

His schedule in the mornings have been that he eats at 440 am when my boyfriend get up, and then when I get up I give him his insulin at 6:15 am. He will usually eat when I give him a shot.

In the morning if it’s below 200 I will skip shot. If it’s above 200 then give 6 units. Correct?
 
That’s what I’m thinking the problem is though that if your boyfriend feeds him at 4:40 and you test at 6:15 that’s less than 2 hours and your result will be food influenced. Can you test after 6:40?

Honestly, I’m guessing here. If he’s around 200, maybe we need to dial all the way back to a small dose like 2 or 3 units. I really would like a few others to chime in @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Bandit's Mom @Bron and Sheba (GA)

like I said before, there’s a possibility he’ll be bouncing from the low numbers and you’ll see high numbers again.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
That’s what I’m thinking the problem is though that if your boyfriend feeds him at 4:40 and you test at 6:15 that’s less than 2 hours and your result will be food influenced. Can you test after 6:40?

Honestly, I’m guessing here. If he’s around 200, maybe we need to dial all the way back to a small dose like 2 or 3 units. I really would like a few others to chime in @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Bandit's Mom @Bron and Sheba (GA)

like I said before, there’s a possibility he’ll be bouncing from the low numbers and you’ll see high numbers again.
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I just gave the information about his feeding schedule for information incase it would mean anything. I will make sure he is not fed until 30 minutes after I give insulin. (If needed).
I am going to do the last test now. I will post before I go to bed.
 
No, you’ve got it backwards. Read this carefully

1. He needs to not have eaten for at least 2 hours before you test him for the preshot tests in the am and pm. Just make sure you test him 2 hours or more after your boyfriend fed him
2. You test then. Feed him and wait 30 minutes to give the shot. He needs food onboard for the insulin because it’s harsh and fast acting. So you’ll need to feed him and wait 30 minutes before giving the shot.

Makes sense?
 
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Jenn Slade said:
I just gave the information about his feeding schedule for information incase it would mean anything. I will make sure he is not fed until 30 minutes after I give insulin. (If needed).
I am going to do the last test now. I will post before I go to bed.
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It's really important that you understand the order of things. I see that Ale just clarified it all, so hopefully you understand it now. In case it helps, I copied and pasted this from the yellow sticky on the Vetsulin forum:

"An important note on when to feed your cat: Because Caninsulin/Vetsulin has an early onset, you want to have fed your cat 20 – 30 minutes before you give a shot. The order for this process is (1)test , (2) feed (3) wait 20 – 30 minutes (4) shoot."

So if you normally give the insulin at 6:15am, then from 4:15am to 6:15am don't give any food at all. At 6:15, check his blood glucose. Then give him food. Wait until 6:45, then give the shot. I hope this helps.
 
Got it!! (1)test , (2) feed (3) wait 20 – 30 minutes (4) shoot."

If he is over 200 give him 6 units? Under 200 no shot. I will be working tomorrow so I won’t be home until after 4.

I did his post test and it was 96 with out getting insulin. That is good correct?
 
It’s good. It’s pretty much a non diabetic cat number, which is why I’m thinking even 6 units may be too much. I wonder if the fact he’s over the UTI hasn’t dropped his numbers considerably.

I’d feel safer if we almost started from scratch with him again at a small dose like 2 units. Let’s see what others like @Wendy&Neko think
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
It’s good. It’s pretty much a non diabetic cat number, which is why I’m thinking even 6 units may be too much. I wonder if the fact he’s over the UTI hasn’t dropped his numbers considerably.

I’d feel safer if we almost started from scratch with him again at a small dose like 2 units. Let’s see what others like @Wendy&Neko think
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Thank you so much! I will check messages in the morning regarding the insulin. It’s way past my bedtime!! Thank you again so much!!
 
Would like to help you but have no idea when AMPS is going to be. Looking back at what you have written I’m thinking it might be in about 2 hours time.
 
Hi! His AMPS is 302. I fed him and now waiting 30 minutes to do his shot. There was some posts about lowering the units considerably. Any input?
 
I just started home testing yesterday. He is on Hills multi benefit w/d. I will not be around to test today. I might be able to be back in 5 hours during lunch time. Should I give him 12 units to be safe since that is what he has been on for the past 3 weeks? Or lower it?
 
You definitely don’t want to be giving him 12 units because that dropped him too low, and that tells us that 12 units is too much insulin for him.
Becasue you have not tested before we really don’t have any idea what has been happening with the blood glucose up until yesterday. He could have been dropping low before and we would not know.
Because you will not be around and because we don’t have any other data except yesterday’s I would drop the dose to 3 units and see how he goes with that. It may be too little but that is safer especially as you will not be there.
I would make sure he eats well before you leave and leave plenty of food out for him.
I would also get a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test his urine for ketones. This is a precaution as we are lowering the dose.
Are you happy with doing this?
 
are you giving him a treat immediately after each test?

I’m glad Bron told you to go lower. I thought even 6 units would be too much. Let’s see how he does on 3 today. Also remember I mentioned he may bounce today because of the low numbers yesterday so don’t be frustrated if he stays in the 300s today. It can take a few days to clear a bounce. It's a kitty's self defense mechanism. Here is the description:

Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
Hello everyone! I didn’t make it home at noon. I have been running late to all my appointments today. I just got home and it is already his PMPS time anyway. It didn’t eat too much during the day today. His number was 271 at 12 hours.
 
He (not it lol) didn’t eat very much today his bowl was still pretty full. He is due for his shot now. Should I give him 3 units again? I can do a couple test tonight
 
Unfortunately not. I didn’t have a chance to stop inbetween appointments and now I am getting into shower. I smell like a nasty dirty wet dog with fur everywhere!! (I do mobile pet grooming) Can I start tomorrow with the Ketostiks?

He ate just less than 1/4 cup of food from 7am to 6pm He doesn’t generally eat during the day. I separated the kitten from Thomas so Thomas would be able to eat his food if he needed/wanted. Otherwise the kitten loves to eat Thomas’s food. I usually put the food up in the pantry while I am working so the dog doesn’t eat the cats food and the cats don’t switch their bowls.
 
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I agree with Bron. When I said "3 units is too much", I meant reduce the dose.

Hard to say if he's eating less because his numbers are better and he's getting more nutrition into his cells, or there's something else at play. I'm also a bit worried about him eating enough, another reason for a reduced dose.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I agree with Bron. When I said "3 units is too much", I meant reduce the dose.

Hard to say if he's eating less because his numbers are better and he's getting more nutrition into his cells, or there's something else at play. I'm also a bit worried about him eating enough, another reason for a reduced dose.
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FYI- I just revised my post to add about food.
 
No, I just was not sure
Jenn Slade said:
the glucose reading was 271 at 6pm his shot was due at 615. Did I do the chart incorrect?
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No, you are all good, I just was not sure if that was the current reading. I live in Australia so I have no idea what time it is where you live.
Yes I think you can go ahead and give the 2 unit dose but make sure Thomas eats well and I would make sure he gets some food a couple of hours after each dose is given. Are you able to get a couple of BG tests in during this cycle?
 
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