New member 10/10/20- Please help- Possible to go off insulin in very early stages?

Hi all. I'm Nick and my cat's name is Bruce. He's 12 years old. He was put on Glargine/ Lantus 0.4ml twice daily earlier this week. I followed my vet's instructions and it's just become a potentially dangerous mess. Doing further research, I'm really not happy with the advice my vet has given and now we're in a pickle. Apologies for the long post but I'm overwhelmed.

He's taken a total of 7 doses so far, so 3 1/2 days of being on insulin. Is it possible to take him off entirely and just monitor the situation for the time being? I will, of course, be asking my vet this first thing in the morning (it's 4am, can't sleep because I decided it was too pressing to get a second opinion before just trusting the vet again). I've skipped tonight's dose, and intend to call the vet before giving another dose. If I have to give it to him, it'll be just over 30 mins late.

Now we get into the reason I ask. I think his starting dose was too high. The vet has me blindly injecting without testing blood levels and I don't have the means to do so at the moment. He hasn't had a urine test done because Bruce refuses to use the plastic litter, and I didn't push the issue because the vet said it's not important. He had a blood curve done at the vet where he read roughly 28 down to 22-23 (I'm sorry I don't know the units they use here? It might be an Australian thing? Sorry I'm a bit overwhelmed with info at the moment) but the vet said ideal should be at 9. He said levels can be raised by stress, I asked if further monitoring should be done first because my cat is a massive ball of anxiety and I'm worried the reading might not be entirely accurate. The vet just wanted him on insulin right away. On top of that, he prescribed the dosage first and then got me to change his diet from Hills Dental dry food, to Hills GlucoSupport m/d dry food. I raised concerns about changing both at once but he said not to worry about it.

Well, he hated the injections (He took the first one fine, then realised it was coming and freaked out every time) and is very stressed, so when he was a bit wonky I just assumed he was dealing with a lot of anxiety and stress. I asked the vet what signs to look for for hypoglycemia and he told me, but reassured me it was very unlikely. Bruce kept getting more and more "upset" as injections went on, and then today I was trying to pet him and he was out of it. I asked the vet if I could skip tonight's dose and he said "ok, but we need to be careful not to do that too often". The difference is night and day, he's so much more alert, he's purring, being a cheeky bugger, back to his normal self. I feel terrible that I might have been overdosing his insulin or managing his diet wrong or something. I'm second guessing myself that it could be stress, but he was just weak and glaring off into the distance while trying to get a scritch out of me earlier today, so surely not (usually he would've been crushing my hand demanding harder skritching, lol). What a mess.

Ideally, I'd like to keep the new diet (seeing as he's currently fine), go off insulin, and monitor his blood levels to get good starting readings, but I know there can be serious problems going off insulin. Maybe also switch to a new vet? Honestly I'm so new to this and my vet is downplaying all the info I'm finding online and confusing me, so I'm just so lost. I just want to start over. Sorry for the rant, and thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I should go to bed now. Also don't worry, Bruce is a happy chappy at the moment. Fingers crossed I can sort out his treatment tomorrow/today.

 

@Critter Mom
@Elizabeth and Bertie

Sounds like something strange is going on by kitty's reactions with and without- can you help with this or tag to someone who can?
Thanks
Gill

 

WELCOME TO FDMB!
OMG Nick I'm GLAD you found us!
You are in Australia? I'm going to tag

@Bron and Sheba (GA) shes in OZ Maybe she can help make sense of these numbers.

It does sound like you may have been giving too much insulin but its NOT YOUR FAULT. I could be wrong so hang on for more advice.

We are a group of dedicated cat lovers all having diabetic kitties. We will get this sorted you have landed in a SAFE PLACE.
BRB

 

How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!

how is Bruce acting right now?

 

Thanks Gil!

 

Would it be possible for you to take a picture of one of your syringes with the stopper drawn up to where you are drawing this dose? 0.4ml would be a very large dose of insulin, and we usually measure in "units", not ml, so I'm guessing that something has gotten lost in translation, but we want to be sure.

 

Nick hold off on the insulin till we figure out whats going on with Bruce. Unless hes been in DKA it wont hurt to forgo a shot at this time.

 

THANK YOU NAN oi my head is spinning lol

 

Looks similar to the numbers I get on a UK Alphatrak2. At shot time Mac is around 26 to 30. Vet advised ideally 15 or lower for as much of cycle as possible is the aim for us but not lower than 4/5.
Wonder what 0.4 ml is in units? Never known how that equates.
Gill

 

well thats good to know! Nan is right though we need to make sure.

 

Another question: did the vet ever do a fructosamine test, or was he just relying on the in-office blood glucose readings to make the diabetes diagnosis?

To answer your main question: yes it is possible for cats to go into remission quickly, especially if there is a food change involved, but we don't know yet that that is what is going on with Bruce (plus it doesn't sound like he was actually switched to a low-carb food).

The other possibility to explain his behavior is that there's something else going on with him. We want to be very careful about this, as withholding insulin from a diabetic who has another illness/infection happening raises the possibility of ketones. The fact that he's feeling better after skipping a shot tonight makes that less likely, but I'm mentioning it for completeness as we're gathering information and trying to help figure out what is going on.

And I didn't say this earlier, but welcome! So glad you found us! I hope we can get Bruce feeling better soon...

 

Oi I usually give a hardy welcome this just threw me.

 

Hoping Bruce is ok Nick!

 

Hi Nick.

Welcome to yourself and Bruce.

Normally, Lantus doses are set in multiples of 0.25 units. The "0.4" figure sounds really odd. I agree with Nan's suggestion above. It would be really helpful if you could post the picture as described above.

Your units are mmol/L, also used in Europe and Canada. The US uses mg/dL (mmol/L x 18 = mg/dL).

Are you using a human or a pet meter?


Mogs
.

 

Fyi, these are so-called "world" units, mmol/L. While many people who use this site use these, most use the US-centric mg/dL.

To mentally convert between your numbers and the predominant numbers you see on this site, you multiply by 18. So that 28 was "504" in US numbers, the recommendation of 9 is equivalent to "162".

Once we figure out what dose you're giving, we can talk about how to get a better read on Bruce's BG numbers (in whatever units!) by home-testing his blood glucose (sidestepping all the problems of vet stress, etc.). But right now I'm most concerned about the dose and getting a pic of your syringes.

 

Ah sorry that's my bad, it's 0.04ml according to the prescription. I screwed up the numbers really bad there. Here's a pic of where I'm drawing it to.

Also Bruce is fine at the moment. He's happy to have skipped his dose. Just had a big nap, wandering around looking out the windows and having little conversations with me, watching bugs, settled into his favorite spot looking happy with himself. When he was on insulin he wouldn't behave that way, much more flat. Luckily he's been eating and drinking fine the whole time.

Thank you so much for the fast replies!

 

Hmm, that looks like 4U, which is still a very large starting dose for a cat. Is he a big guy? Vets sometimes dose cats as if they are small dogs and go by weight, but that isn't always a good idea. We usually recommend starting doses of 0.5U to 1U, only occasionally going over that.

I'm glad you took matters into your own hands and skipped the shot. I think home-testing could be a really crucial tool for you to help figure out what's going on with him and what dose he needs going forward. Does this sound like something you'd be willing to try doing?

 

Which day of the week did Bruce get his first dose of insulin?

Was it morning or afternoon when the first dose was given?

Was the dose you skipped the one that would have been scheduled for Friday evening?

(Asking because Lantus is a 'depot' insulin and successive doses build on previous ones, so we need to get an idea of how many doses Bruce has received to date in order to better understand the current situation.)


Mogs
.

 

ok swallowed my heart back down again... Breathe jeanne breathe

 

Yeah he's a big boy. 8.45kg. Larger in size than a lot of cats in general, but also overweight. I'm happy to have a go at home testing, but whether or not I can get Bruce to participate is another issue. I probably need some tips around managing his anxiety and getting into the routine, but it'd be 100% worth it. Even just giving him a drop on the back of his neck as a once off leaves him anxious about me touching there for weeks. (Which is also why I thought this whole thing was anxiety).

 

It was Tuesday morning when they gave the first dose and monitored him. All shots after that given on time (Tuesday night, etc), then we skipped Friday evening's dose

 

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the info.

I agree with Nan that the setting on the syringe looks like 4 UNITS of insulin.

What would Bruce's approximate ideal weight be (so that I can have a look at the dosing side of things)?


Mogs
.

 

We have lots of tips on testing... with an especially anxious cat, you'll have to go slowly and in stages to get him used to it bit by bit, but it can be done. Treats can work wonders as motivation!

Most of us around here use human BG meters for testing, not sure what you have available in Australia (Bron will know when she checks into this thread). The main things to look for are: cheap and readily available test strips, and test strips that only require a small amount of blood. You'll also need some larger-sized lancets to start out (26 or 28 gauge; smaller number = larger lancet) and a few other supplies. Likely with Bruce you'll be spending a lot of time at first just desensitizing him to the process before you even think about trying to poke him for a blood droplet, so you've got some time to get all that stuff together.

 

Sorry for tagging you earlier on this one Mogs I can see youve been really snowed under tonight. I just saw that Bruce was so much brighter off insulin so thought it looked strange & tried to find an expert quickly & your name popped to.mind! I promise to expand my list & stop picking on you all the time (Nan has now been added to my go to list - hee hee jt was already on it so not sure why she escaped me tagging her - I must have had a brain meltdown) !!
Gill

 

My vet was very vague about weight loss, but I think from memory another vet said to aim for "just over 7kg" about 5 years ago. I'm trying to find his older documents to see where his weight was when it was closer to ideal, but turns out 2 hours of sleep is hard to function on lol. I think 7.2kg ish would be my guess (might still be heavy? It's hard to tell because he's large). Sorry that's about all I've got for now. I'll spring back up if I find anything more accurate. Thanks so much for helping with this.

 

So to be clear... you have not given any insulin tonight. Right?

 

Nick take a moment and give this a read. It just gets you familiar on how all this works.It also gives instructions on setting up your signature. That will appear at the bottom of all your posts. It gives at a glance information on all Bruce's particulars.
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

We also would like you to set up a spreadsheet you can find how to do that here:
FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

You were baptized by fire today Lets hope the rest of the way is smooth sailing...

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY
jeanne

 

Not yet. I was advised by the vet to give him his dose now. But I'm opting to take him in there first to get a spot test done, so I'm heading there asap, and they'll probably administer the dose if his bloods come back high enough. Sorry I'm all rushing about now trying to organise everything. Still frazzled.

Also thank you for all the welcomes! Sorry I haven't set my profile up properly yet. It's been... a day. Lol

 

I jut posted it for you when you are ready. I HOPE the vet dose right by Bruce GOOD LUCK!

 

Update: They didn't tell me the number, but said his reading was "high" and to give his dose. He's had it a bit late now (9:45am). And I've booked in for another reading and a chat with the vet Monday evening. So, to be clear, I skipped Friday evening, and I just gave him his Saturday morning dose. They said to half the dose if he gets too lethargic or stops eating and to put honey on his gums if he goes weak. I'll be trying to chill out and keep an eye on him in the meantime. This isn't fun figuring out. Thanks again for the support. Phew

 

OK Nick Ummm if he does bottom out you can always come here for guidance. I wont be around but
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Would you mind checking in on Nick while you are here?

There are others OF COURSE they all rock! but Bron is in OZ

 

That info's absolutely fine, Nick.

To confirm, I think your earlier picture looks to be set for a 4IU dose of U100 insulin (Lantus being such an insulin).

If the dose has been set as 4IU every 12 hours (q12h) then according to the dosing guidelines we follow then yes, it is too high.

I've attached below the peer-reviewed study that is the foundation of the Lantus dosing protocols we use here. Starting dose is based solely on weight of the cat. According to the study:

• Lantus Starting dose = 0.25 units per kg of ideal weight q12h, unless the cat is underweight, in which case actual weight is used for the calculation.

If we take 7kg as Bruce's ideal weight, the starting dose would be: 7 x 0.25 = 1.75 units Lantus q12h.

Even if we take Bruce's current weight, the starting dose would be: 8.45 x 0.25 = 2 units Lantus q12h (rounded down to nearest quarter unit).

Here you can see why, even though Bruce is a large cat, we expressed concern earlier about the 4 unit q12h dose.

I'd suggest using the document below as the basis for a discussion with your vets about Bruce's dose. (Note: Your vet may be working to a different dosing protocol.) By way of general information, one of the authors of the attached study, Jacqui Rand, was based in the University of Queensland at the time. (She may still be there!)

As mentioned above, Lantus is a depot insulin. Depot insulins gradually build up a 'tank' of insulin under the skin - a sort of 'chemical pancreas'. When starting treatment, part of each dose goes to filling the tank, and the size of the depot increases with successive doses. During each 12 hour cycle the body uses some of the insulin from the most recent dose and also some from the depot. As the size of the depot increases, it exerts a more powerful blood glucose lowering effect. For a given dose size, it takes 10 contiguous doses for the depot to reach a steady state.

For the sake of speed, I am making the assumption that the curve you describe was done when the first dose of Lantus was given at the vets. Those numbers are high but safe in that they're nowhere near hypoglycaemic. However, as the Lantus depot started to fill Bruce's BG range is likely to have got lower - at least for part of the time. Without BG readings, it's impossible to say by how much.

For general information (and according to my own vet) the normal feline blood glucose reference range is 3.9-8.3mmol/L, as measured on a pet-calibrated glucometer. Your vet may be using 9mmol/L as the target for the lowest point of the cycle (i.e. looking to run Bruce 'a little hot' BG-wise to reduce risk of hypoglycaemia while on insulin).

Correct.

Some pointers on the steps that should be included in a diagnostic work-up for feline diabetes (FD):

* Assessment of clinical signs (may include: excessive urination and thirst (aka polyuria/polydipsia, PU/PD), excessive hunger, weight loss in spite of eating more, poor hair coat condition, lethargy, low mood).

* Initial BG spot check - may be temporarily elevated by vet/travel stress - not sufficient basis for FD Dx, just an indication that further diagnostics are needed.

* Urinalysis - check for glucose and ketones - only confirms elevated BG in the hours since the bladder was last emptied but stronger evidence than BG spot check (stress typically less likely to influence).

* Fructosamine Test - result indicative of average glucose levels over the previous number of weeks, not influenced by temporary stresses, fundamental to a sound Dx of diabetes.

If a cat is in very high numbers and producing ketones (an emergency situation) then a vet might start insulin treatment without waiting to receive a fructosamine result.

This is a major error. Once a cat has been started on insulin then the carb load should not be changed unless the cat's blood glucose levels can be regularly and frequently checked throughout the diet transition as the insulin dose may very likely need to be reduced. (See this vet-authored site for further information on the importance of BG testing when changing diet).

Assuming the Aussie formulations for Hill's foods are the same as those in the UK:

* Hill's t/d Dental Feline Dry Diet: 33% carbs (dry matter basis)

* Hill's m/d GlucoSupport Feline Dry Diet (Chicken): 15.1% carbs (dry matter basis)

The carb load of m/d is less than half that of the t/d diet Bruce had been eating. If there was a fast/immediate switch then there is a high probability that Bruce's blood glucose levels would have been markedly reduced compared to where they were when the vet ran the curve and set the dose.

More to follow...


Mogs
.

 

That is... a really really cavalier attitude.

Mogs has given you a ton of excellent information about what could be going on with Bruce's insulin dose and why we are worried about your vet's advice. We understand that, at the moment, you're pretty dependent on your vet's assessement and BG measurements, which puts you in a tough spot. It's one reason we advocate for home-testing BG-- it gives you so much more information about what is going on with your cat, and so much more control over the situation!

It's harder to get home testing started with an anxious cat, but it can be done. So, while you are in "observation" mode per your vet (sigh), how about starting the process of desensitizing him to BG testing so you can (hopefully) get that up and running soon? The way we do it is to use human blood tester meters, and poke along the edge of the ear to get the blood droplet. So:

Start by designating a "testing spot" where everything is going to happen. First step, bring him to the spot, give him a cuddle and a treat, let him go. Do that as many times as it takes for him to get the message that, hey, good stuff happens here, no need to get scared!, then move on to step two. Bring him over play with his ears a bit, then cuddle, treat, let go.

When you are actually have to do the poking, you'll want a warm ear, so if his ears are naturally cold, you can make step three the ear-warming process. Some people just rub the ears gently to warm them, or you can use a little sock filled with rice and microwaved for a few seconds.

Next step, once you have the lancets and the meter, is getting him used to them. You can mime doing the poke with the lancet without actually poking, if your meter makes beeping noises you can let it go through the testing cycle and beep while he's there, etc.

All of this can go at whatever pace works for him. Some people can get a successful test out of their cat on the first try with none of this step-by-step, others with extremely anxious cats have to go through the whole thing. Whatever you have to do.

Last tip (for now): many people find that if they're stressed about the testing process, their cat picks up on that. One thing you can do to counteract this is (believe it or not) to sing a silly song during the testing. Hard to be stressed when you are doing something silly! And again, whatever you have to do to make it work, that's fine.

Love the avatar pic, by the way! There's a cat who knows how to relax!

 

Hi Nick
I can vouch for Nan's tip above being a good'un. I've had a few issues with injecting and BG testing Mac & after getting that tip I found that the singing or I use talking in a sing-song voice "he's such a good kitty - such a handsome kitty - such a brave kitty - yes he is" may make me sound daft but he loves the praise feeling and it also keeps him & me calm. I don't even feel daft anymore, funny what we get used to !!
All the best to you & Bruce.
Gill

 

Hi Nick, and welcome to you and Bruce.
I live in Australia and I am very surprised your vet has started Bruce on what looks like 4 units of insulin.......that is way to high a dose. You were right to post and ask for help.

I would also recommend you start home testing the BGs. Nan has given you some hints. It is by far the safest way to help keep Bruce safe. You can go to most chemists....the ones that sell diabetic supplies for humans and buy a human glucose test kit to take the BGs.

I am going to give you a link to Aussie information. You will find suitable meters on here and also lots of other useful information.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...for-aussie-feline-diabetic-caregivers.217781/

Keep asking lots of questions, we are all happy to help. This is a very knowledgeable community.

 

Thank you all so much. This is incredibly helpful. I called a different vet but (as expected) they wouldn't give an opinion on the dosage. I guess my main concern in the meantime is the advice of my main vet (and also the one I called) is to not change his dose at all. But I'm like 99% sure he'll get ill again and that's not fun to deal with especially over the weekend. I'm stuck in a very awkward position of "My cat could have a nasty reaction if I keep the dose. Also my cat could have a nasty reaction if I change the dose" Super stressful and I don't know what to do, because I don't know how to adapt at all and I don't think I'm fully prepared in case of a bad hypoglycemia episode (thanks to Dr. "eh, just whack some honey on it"). I have the Hills Dental dry food and a can of whiskas and some honey but I need to dive into how to treat that.

I'm looking at going to Chemist Warehouse to get one asap. Because he's a stress ball, I'll probably keep it just in case, rather than monitoring him super closely right away? Accu-chek performa with the included fastclix is one I can use right? (Their spelling of their products is really annoying me lol)

The good news is I have a bit of time before the insulin builds up again so I can figure things out a bit. He's also back on his spot on top of the couch completely stress free again lol.

 

Yes the Accu-chek meter is a good meter. You really need to test before every shot to see it is safeto give the dose and then you need to check again about 5 or 6 hours after the dose to see how low the i sulin I see taking the BG. Lantus is dosedon how low the insulin takes the BG.

One thing I would do when you go to buy the meter is to also buy a bottle of Ketostix....it is about $12 and it will measure the ketones and the glucose in the urine. It is the ketones we are interested in because ketones can form if there is not enough insulin and not enough food for diabetic cats........so if you are withholding the insulin, it is important that we know if there are any ketones present. It is just a matter of collecting a urine sample from Bruce and then dipping the test strip in it and reading the sultana against the colours on the side of the bottle exactly 15 seconds later........no later than that as it continues to change colour. Do you think you could get some of those strips as well?

We can help you with the dose. It doesn't sound as if the vets know much about feline diabetes...this is very common.
It is crazy to say not to change the dose if Bruce is exhibiting signs of a hypo. That is just plain dangerous....please don't follow that advice.

The starting dose for a cat on dry food on the Start Low Go Slow method we use here is 1 unit.
Therefore I would start off by giving 1 unit twice a day to Bruce.
You would hold that dose for a week unless he drops under 5 (90 in US numbers).
Test before every dose and again mig cycle.
So you Test, feed and then shoot in that order. I used to shoot while Sheba was eating and she didn't notice.
You can also offer a tiny low carb snack as you test the BG to distract him.

Remember you are Bruce's advocate and you are entitled to do what you think is best for him. If you are not happy with the vet advice or your gut instinct is against it, don't do it.
We help people with dosing every day many times over. We are not vets but we have all lived with FD 24/7 for many years.

Which city do you live in?
I'll be around for the next 7 hours if you need me.

 

I'm in Adelaide. Thanks so much for sticking around. The vet's advice is to half the dose to 2 units if he's showing signs like not eating, but it's a super grey area until it's obvious, and I'd rather not let it get to that point again. My guy will still eat when sick. I am worried about cutting it all the way back to 1 unit, though, too.

Once I get the tests up and running I'll be more confident with decisions I think. I'm considering just going with 2 units for the time and monitoring that, considering that's the dose they want if things are going wrong. I've put in a click and collect order for those supplies so hopefully it's ready soon.

On urine collection: Any advice around that? I have one of those small packs of non absorbant kitty litter and he avoided it (though he wasn't drinking properly at the time either). The bugger always goes when I'm not looking or occupied, too, so hard to catch it. Putting a plastic cover over his regular litter maybe? I've heard that's an option. I'm home all weekend so if I miss it, it'll only be at room temp for probably less than 30 mins. This is honestly one of the trickier things. They couldn't even get him to pee during the day when they did a blood curve.

 

Re the urine collection
You can put a small plastic container in his favourite spot in the LB and see if he'll use it, or you could try the non absorbant little litter. Not getting to it for 30 mis is ok.

Re the insulin dose.
Providing there are no ketones on the urine, 1 unit would be fine to give. That is the normal starting dose for most cats when they start Lantus.
Because we don't know what his BG is, I can't advice you to give a higher dose.
Almost all cats get stressed when they are at the vet and that raises their BG levels 5 or 6 or even more points higher than it would be if tested at home. The vets use these numbers to decide what dose to put the cat on and then the cat goes home and the BG drops because the stress goes away. This can lead to too high of a dose being ordered.
This is another reason why testing at hi,e is so important.

What time is the evening dose due?
I think you are 1/2 hour behind us in Adelaide. It is almost 4.30 pm here now.
What i would do is post and say what the BG for the preshot is.
If it is less than 11 I would stall, dont feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is rising.
If you are going to be giving the dose without testing because the meter hasn't arrived I would DEFINITELY NOT give more than 1 unit of Lantus.

 

Because I skipped last night's dose and was late injecting this mornings (injected at 9:45am), I take it I should inject at probably 9:30 or 9:15? To get as close to 12hr as possible while still trying to shift it back a bit? I don't know how shifting the times work and honestly probably not great to play with it too much right now. And yeah you're 30 minutes ahead of my time. So, technically his dose was injected 10:15am your time.

So, I should try to arrange his litter tray now and see if I can get anything. And before I give his shot I post the reading in here? I take the reading before he eats any food, too? I'm trying to mentally order everything out correctly and make sure I'm getting it all right lol

He had his 4 unit dose this morning and tbh, while it's normal for him to be sleeping all afternoon, it looks just very slightly off and I can't put my finger on it, so might be being paranoid, might be right, who knows. Just a little bit sluggish but still alert enough that he might be ok. Should I try getting a reading now? (He won't be happy if I do this a lot). Definitely not giving him the 4 units, omg I can't believe they stuck by that dose. Hopefully I can get a good reading tonight but I am likely to go the 1 unit now that I can test his urine too. Thank god for prompt click and collect.

 

You can inject at 9.30 pm. Back by 15 minutes a cycle or 30 minutes a day.

Yes if you can get a reading now that would be great. It will tell us a lot.

Are you giving him snacks of food during the cycle as well as before the insulin?

For tonight, I would take a reading 1/2 hour before the shot is due so you have time to post and get advice. I will watch for you and there will be others from the US on as well by then. Don't feed him when you test him at 9 pm before we tell you what to do as you may need to stall and see if the BG comes up higher on its own. Does all that make sense?

 

Have you managed to get a test?
I would give him something to eat now if you haven't been feeding him during the cycle.

 

Hi Nick
Mac didn't like the plastic litter beads and wouldn't go near his litter tray - the wotsit pee'd on a mat instead so we were able to put a washed plastic bag flat down there and get a sample the next time he did it. But you don't really want Bruce going elsewhere so another tip I was given (and am going to try next time) is to loosely crumple some clingfilm (eg plastic food wrap) in a patch over the litter and hopefully get some pee trapped that way.
You will probably have a day of following him every time he leaves the room in the hope that he is heading to his tray - I left that to DH whilst I was working upstairs & finally heard a triumphant call a few hours later of "got it" ( after earlier curses throughout the morning)
Best of luck - you'll find what works to get a sample from Bruce with trial & error
Gill

 

I haven't managed to get a test done unfortunately. I tried to warm him up to it and he's not happy with the lance going anywhere near him even though I was giving him tuna treats and being as calm and singy as possible and not even trying to get a sample. Gave him a little bit of food now (6:20pm) but he also had some lunch at about midday. I found some urine lose in his box from early this morning (between 8-12 hours) I think. So it was there for a while but I put a stick to it anyway to see what would happen. Negative for Ketone, Glucose was between 10-20+ (didn't get an accurate timing) but I assume it gets very out of whack if the sample is old so I'm not sure if it helps anything at all. I'm still setting it up so I can get a fresh sample.

 

Good to get that negative ketone test even if the urine was a bit old.

Keep trying with the BG testing.
I used to kneel down and sit on my heels and put Sheba in between my knees so that she was facing away from me.
That way she was held in with one hand around under her chin on her chest and my body was doing the rest. I had everything ready to go when I got her inthat position. Then I put some food in front of her and then tested.
It may take a few days for you both to get used to it so don't worry if you aren't successful first time.

 

Thanks, that's a relief to hear. I think I'm frying my brain trying to perfect everything. One thing I did forget to check, though. The lancet has a penetration depth setting. For people they recommend starting at 2, is that ok for cats? I'm not gonna punch a hole in his ear or anything? lol

 

If you are not getting blood you will need to adjust the depth of the lancet.
What size is the lancet? 26 or 28 is best
Are you holding a cotton ball or tissue behind the ear to brace it?
You can try milking the ear up towards the tip as well to encourage blood flow

 

I can't find the size of the lancet anywhere so, that's kind of annoying, but I'll see how I go. I do have cotton balls though so I can try that. At the moment the plan is to carry him to the bathroom so he doesn't run away (he doesn't like this, but he always runs away so I don't have much of an option). Pop a tuna treat or two in front of him and brace him with my legs. I also follow Helpful Vancouver Vet's advice to "squish that cat" and gently press down on him to get him in place and stop him running. How I manage that while doing an ear prick? We'll find out I guess. But he does seem to at least give up and let me do injections when I do that, so same theory.

I also plan to get him used to it over time by offering little nibbles by just being near it, letting me touch his ears, etc. But I have to balance this with his stress.

 

Hi Nick
Don't put yourself under pressure to be perfect (or even very good) straightaway. I did exactly the same & you will only end up stressing yourself out. I can honestly say that these things take time. Also frustratingly sometimes when you think you have it sussed out kitty can decide not to do that way any longer. I don't say that to worry you more but so that you won't despair and think it is something you are doing wrong if it does happen.
I've always had issues since we first started on August trying to get BG tests from Mac as he hated it but even he is getting better and seems to be more obliging now.
If you search for threads with me as the author you will see some about both BG tests and injections where kind people posted back with loads of tips. The tip i has given that works best for me is to gently hold his warmed ear over my first finger then hold it in place & gently stretched with my thumb & third finger while I make the poke with the other hand and get the blood on the strip.
On the lancing tool I used to have to use the 4 setting but I now do it freehand just holding the lancet in my hand which works better for us. I have DH hold Mac lightly so he can't escape so if you are on your own between the knees maybe a good idea ad you say. I know someone on here who traps her cat between her and the sofa arm - whatever works !!
In answer to your point - yes you can occasionally find you go through the ear on accident. but don't beat yourself up it doesn't particularly bother them (few nerves there) and soon heals up
Finally - if you get a bit down about it don't be afraid to say so on here and people will send you lots of encouragement and hugs. I did & they did
Gill

 

Thank you for the kind words. I had two attempts and couldn't get a reading, so I bailed on it. First one didn't hit properly. Second one only got a tiiiiiny amount out after I rubbed it. Bruce was very upset. But the good news is he's really really hungry at the moment so he didn't care after like 5 seconds when he got his bit of tuna. He's going to be back in the mess with the injection though, poor guy.
So when it comes to the injection. 1 unit then?

 

Great job starting on the testing! It does take time, and there will be lots of stops and starts at first, but hang in there, it will come. Are you using lancets that came with the meter? Those tend to be thinner (30 or 31 gauge) than what you want when starting out, so it's worth trying to track down some thicker (26 or 28 gauge) when next you go shopping. Later on, when the ears have grown some extra capillaries, you can use the thinner ones.

How long since his last injection? Was it 4U then?

 

Try again and see if you can get a reading before you shoot.
We really don't have any idea what his BG is to give you guidance with the dose.......even if it is safe to shoot.....I certainly wouldn't go above 1 unit if you are shooting blind though.
I can't give you the advice to shoot without seeing a BG number. You might be better skipping until you can get a BG tomorrow as we don't know if he has come up enough to shoot after the 4 units this morning

Doesn't the lancet box say the gauge size on it?
There should be a number there.
If you have no luck tonight I would go out and buy some 26 gauge lancets tomorrow.

You will need to make sure he eats well tonight before the shot and give him a snack at +2 and +4 and +6 tonight . That is 2, 4 and 6 hours after the dose if you decide to go ahead and shoot.

 

Yeah it's the default lancets. I have no idea how to find the thicker ones, I don't know if I'm missing something because I can never find sizing on any of them, I'm gonna need help figuring out what to look for. I mean it's got a number on it but I assume that's the number of lancets in the box, which is 24. Otherwise I've got 0.3mm, 30G whatever that means. And yep, 4 units this morning.

I usually let him free feed overnight if that's ok? He tends to nibble. I'll quickly try again but doubt I'll get anything

 

The important thing is to KEEP TRYING just be gentle but firm. Give a treat after each attempt whether you succeed or fail. Pretty soon Bruce will associate these sessions as a way to get his treat.
KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT!
J

 

That's the size there-- 30 gauge. So definitely a bit thinner than you'd like right now-- they'll work (you did get a blood drop!), it's just harder to get a large enough droplet for the meter.

I was asking about how long ago the dose was because extreme hunger can be one of the signs that a cat is going low, and I was wondering how close he was to the typical nadir time.

I would definitely shoot less than 4U tonight if you shoot. Fingers crossed that you're able to get a test before then so we can give more informed opinions on that!

 

Nothing. I decided not to shoot. He's stressed, it's late. I think his glucose is back up again though, he's fairly normal again, so idk maybe I could get away with something. I'll monitor his urine in the meantime as best I can.

AH thanks! That's the number I was looking for! I didn't realise they went to 30 and it just didn't occur in my head. Still running on 2 hours sleep so, whoops.

So next question, he's obviously due for his dose next morning. What do I do there? I can't get the right lancets before he's due. Is it ok to skip that too? Or give a small dose?

Oh also, he's probably just hungry because it's over an hour past his usual feeding time and it's thrown him off

 

i think you would be safeto give the 1 unit in the morning as you are going to skip tonight.
If you can go out tomorrow and get some 26 preferably or 28 gauge lancets, I'm sure you will have more success.
You are doing really well. It is only very early days.
What do you think @Nan & Amber (GA) about 1 unit in the morning.

 

I think 1U in the morning is a good idea. Get a good night's sleep tonight, and definitely leave out his usual nibbles just in case.

You're doing a great job with him! We will get this figured out.

 

If he was showing early signs of a hypo such as being spaced out, lethargic, unsteady his feet or very sleepy his BG was probably low. You mentioned he wasn't quite right this morning. If you see him like this please feed him some food. Once the BG is out of the hypo range he will appear normal But the BG may not be nearly high enough to give the dose. That is why testing is so important.
I agree with Nan, try and get a good night's sleep. It will all get sorted out. It is always a steep learning curve in the beginning but you are doing really well.
Team Bruce will see you tomorrow!

 

Because you are skipping the dose you can shoot at an earlier time in the morning. So if you want to bring the time forward more, you can do that.

 

Yeah that'll be helpful to change the time back a bit.

And thanks. Phew. I don't want to throw myself a pity party or anything but I really struggle with in-store shopping and looking at all the products, I'm autistic and have to calm myself from having massive anxiety/panic when I'm in the store. Just picking up my order today was rough. Is there any chance you can please point me in the right direction of the name of a product for the lancets to buy? It's completely fine if you can't, just trying to take a shortcut if I can. I can get to Chemist Warehouse again, but I can also look for a specific product online and try to track it down. I just can't seem to find the size in online descriptions which is super annoying.

Don't worry, I'll be in bed at a reasonable time and calming myself down from the mess lol. He was doing ok before the insulin started so he'll cope. Seriously I can't thank everyone enough for your help. Everyone here is so helpful. I'm so glad I came here.

 

I'll have a look for the lancets and get back to you in a few minutes.

 

What type of lancet device do you have to hold the lancet? Is it the accucheck one?

 

Yup it's the accu-chek fastclix one. If you can't find any I'm fine with changing it, too. No biggie

 

I couldn’t find an accuchek fastclix 28 gauge at all.
But you can use a Abbott freestyle Lancet 28 gauge if you buy the lancing device to go with it. I would imagine you could buy the device at the store that sells the lancets.
A lot of chemists sell the Abbott lancets.
Here is a link to what you are looking for. I couldn’t see that chemist warehouse sold them.
You may be able to ring around a few chemists to see if they have them before going in to buy them.
I used this device and lancets and they are very user friendly.
https://discountchemist.com.au/product/freestyle-28-gauge-sterile-lancets-100pk/?dTribesID=793d5797a6a4797fccfe046b334a682d|adtribes|96508&utm_source=Google Shopping&utm_campaign=DiscountChemist&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=96508&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj96N04Cq7AIVRKqWCh1-TAKxEAQYAyABEgIMWfD_BwE

 

That's great! Thank you so much for going out of your way. You've been an absolute life saver today. I'll dig into this tomorrow and figure it out

 

You can also just free-hand the lancet without the device. I actually found that easier to manage (plus there's no clicking noise to startle the cat).

 

I could never do that but I know many do so worth a try

 

Back again with some general info and comments.

If a diabetic cat that needs insulin doesn't receive any at all, there is a risk that the cat's body may start breaking down fats for energy. This results in ketone production and puts the cat at risk of developing diabetic ketoacidosis, a life-threatening complication of diabetes. By way of general information, routine ketone monitoring is a wise safety precaution, particularly if a cat is running in high BG numbers (greater risk of metabolic dysfunction). Ketones may be monitored via urine (urinalysis strips) or blood testing (ketone meter, similar to glucometer). I see other members have already given you some pointers. Here are some useful resources for you to bookmark:

Tips for Collecting Urine Samples

Diabetic Ketoacidosis Information

With regard to some of the clinical signs you've observed in Bruce, it is valid for you to be concerned, to wit:

* OK on first injection, intent on avoiding subsequent injections, stress increasing with each successive injection. [Depot building, more insulin in system with each successive injection.]

* After administration of 7th dose, Bruce "out of it", "weak and glaring off into the distance". [Depot getting closer to 'full', greater risk of hypo.]

* Behaviour returns to normal when 8th dose skipped. [Possibly due to body no longer needing to 'fight' the insulin dose - speculating here.]​

By way of general information, sometimes a cat may become lethargic or 'seem a bit off':

* for part of the time over the first few days of treatment with insulin as the body may take a little time to acclimatise. (Should be self-limiting, usually resolves after a few days.)

* when blood glucose levels drop too low, possibly accompanied by other symptoms like 'spaciness'. (BG testing will enable you to check whether BG is in hypo territory.)

* when blood glucose levels go through a steep drop into still-safe lower numbers from a much higher preshot BG. (With a Lantus kitty, likely cause would too high a dose. Again, home testing will help with this.)

* if the current insulin just plain doesn't agree with the particular cat. (Cat may 'seem more itself' when insulin dose is wearing off; usually resolved by switching to a different insulin).

* if it is throwing ketones or going into DKA. (Regular monitoring for ketones is best preventative measure. Extra caution needed if general BG level is high, or appetite is poor.)​

If the insulin dose is set wrong or if the particular insulin doesn't agree with the cat, the cat may try hard to avoid subsequent injections. Bruce's behaviour with respect to receiving injections is definitely something to keep an eye on.

Conversely, some cats may initially be resistant to BG testing. However, when the insulin dose is set to a safe and effective level and they start feeling better, they recognise that the testing is somehow connected with that and they become much more compliant and accepting of the procedure. Some even start sitting in their testing spots of their own volition, waiting for their caregiver to check their BG levels and give them a treat!

Impression of current vet's performance:

* Based on the research-based dosing protocols we use here, the starting dose was set too high.

The above is poor but...

* Was aware that there was no initial capacity to monitor BG levels at home.
* Gave instructions to switch to food with over 50% less carbs.
* Does not appear to have given any weight to the effect of the simultaneous filling of the Lantus depot.

The above three constitute the diabetic equivalent of a perfect storm.

These are other concerns:

* Dismissive of client's observations of concerning clinical signs, discouraging attitude towards client's queries and efforts to learn more about feline diabetes.
* Disturbingly blasé attitude to assessment of risk of hypoglycaemia, and to treatment thereof.

Honestly, if this was happening to my cat and my vet wouldn't give proper consideration to very concerning observations about my cat's response to insulin, I would be actively looking for a different vet who had a better handle on feline diabetes fundamentals, and who was willing to work with me as a partner in my cat's care.


Mogs
.

 

You hum it, I'll play it. (((Nick)))

I have PTSD and shops affect me pretty much the same way. (Feels like the items on the shelves are screaming at me.) It's overwhelming and horrible to experience. I feel for you.

The power of love - you got the stuff.

(((Bruce)))

Tip: When trying to get a blood sample, warm the ear. Then warm it some more. Then when you think it has to be warm enough now, warm it more again.

Once you crack the ear warming, your testing success rate should hugely improve. (I was quite taken aback at how warm I needed to get the ear when I first started testing.)


Mogs
.

 

Here is the home testing method I used. Perhaps it might give you some ideas to add to your own testing technique.

1. Fold a sheet of kitchen paper in four lengthwise and cut it up into 1" strips. You will use these to cushion and support the ear during the test.
   
   
2. Put a thin film of Vaseline or Neosporin ointment (not the cream!) onto the edge of the ear to help the blood sample bead up instead of wicking away into the fur. (Wipe off any excess with a tissue or cotton pad.)
   
   
3. To get a blood sample you need to increase the blood flow to the ear, so make sure the ear is really, really, really warm (but not hot) - especially in the early days of testing. (Note: With repeated 'poking', more capillaries form in the test area, so it becomes easier to get samples reliably.)
   
   
4. Once you have the testing area of the ear very well warmed, wrap a strip of folded kitchen paper round your index finger then place finger under the sweet spot area of the ear you're testing to support it during the poke.
   
   
5. Use your thumb and middle finger to lightly but firmly grip the ear and paper strip in place so that the edge of the ear is taut but not overstretched; the little bit of tension will make it easier for the lancet to break the skin surface (and it helps to keep kitty's head from moving around too much).
   
   
6. When using a lancet 'freehand', make sure the bevelled side of the lancet is facing upwards. Hold the lancet at a slight angle to the ear similar to the way you hold a pen when writing, not perpendicular (easier to see where you're aiming and also makes skin prick easier).
   
   
7. When it comes to the actual poke, prick the sweet spot on the edge of the ear in a similar way to how you might quickly prick a balloon with the tip of a needle to make it pop.
   
   
8. When using the glucometer, bring the test strip to where it j-u-s-t comes into contact with the blood droplet and hold it there. The strip should then 'sip up' the amount it needs to run a valid test. Most meters beep or give a visual cue to let you know that enough blood has been collected on the strip.
   
   If your cat is a wriggler, try collecting the blood sample on the back of your (clean) fingernail and test it from there.
   
   
9. After the test, fold the paper strip over the edge of the ear and apply gentle pressure to the test area for about 15-20 seconds to minimise bruising.
   
   
10. Keep praising your cat throughout the process and reward with a favourite diabetic-friendly treat or other favourite activity (e.g. grooming).
    

With a bit of time and practice you'll be able to work out a technique and a routine that works best for you and for Bruce.


Mogs
.

 

Hi Nick re Nan's comment above. I did mention before that I found this better but it may have been helpful if I said why. Mac didn't mind the click so for me the advantages of freehanding is that it gives me much more space only holding a tiny lancet with one hand rather than the lancing tool. If I need to poke twice I can just do it immediately rather than having to draw back the lancet into the tool again. And best of all I can see exactly where I am aiming - my lancing tool had a white end - why on earth it isn't clear plastic !!! It does take a couple of tries to get used to how hard to poke (the tip I was given was like popping a balloon). I think I delayed trying it for a while because it felt more like I was doing it to his ear whereas the tool made me feel more distanced from it so less guilt - daft I know!
PS if you ever do find you get the vein by accident don't worry - yes you do get quite a bit of blood (don't waste it!) But it soon stops with a bit of pressure using kitchen paper or cotton wool - its not like you've severed his jugular you have not damaged him. Yes been there done that (ear vein not jugular!) and we both survived just fine.
Gill

 

Same here!

I used to spend the first part of each testing session apologising profusely to Saoirse, and explaining to her at great length why it was necessary and that I was only doing it because I was trying to protect her.

Saoirse's response? --->


Mogs
.

 

DITTO

 

Thank you so much for the tips. Now that I've slept I think I can actually function and work this out lol. I'll be focusing on sorting out a set up to test all of this at home. I don't want to run around trial and error with vets until I'm sure he's ok.

I gave Bruce 1 unit this morning just after 8. After trying to get last night's BG readings, he was fully braced for that, so it was absolutely hilarious seeing his reaction to just a quick jab, like "That's it? That's all it is?! Why was I worried?!"

Urine samples are only slightly working right now? I have a very small amount of non absorbent litter from my vet's kit that I used. He refused on it's own, so I gradually added more and more of his usual litter to it (a recycled newspaper litter). He used his box just a few minutes after his injection. I'm noticing he wants to make sure I'm definitely doing something else and not going anywhere near him, so catching a urine stream seems less likely. Anyway, his litter absorbed most of it, but I still got a few decent drops for my strips. I ran a few tests because I'm not used to using them yet. I'll be looking at tips for this, but I'm sure he'll go if he just gets a good volume of litter in the tray, so aquarium gravel or dried lentils maybe?

Ketone was negative again. It developed into 0.05g/L (the "traces" category) after like, 3 minutes, so I assume that's fine, given it took significantly over 15 seconds to reach that point.
Glucose is hard to read because it develops so fast and guessing a colour isn't the world's most accurate read, but it looked about 9-13 g/L. I'd say definitely not over 15 g/L max. I'm hoping I get these numbers right after my last bungle lol. Do those numbers from urine sample relate directly to BG? I'm very unfamiliar with how that translates.

Additional info on that, last night Bruce was eating a lot of his GlucoSupport food and looking real hungry, so I gave him his Hills Dental in case his BG was low, and he was satisfied after that (he ate it about midnight), so it might have been completely right that he was getting a bit low. I kept 1/4 cup of GlucoSupport in his bowl but looks like he didn't eat much of it overnight. I take it his urine is a snapshot of the results of that.

I'm on a mission today to sort out those lancets. Also I saw a tip to put rice in a sock and warm it in the microwave, and use that to heat kitty's ear (making sure it's not hot, just warm). I think I'll try to give ear massages with that, my hands are kind of cold. I'll try to get a spreadsheet going to at least gather data on dosages and whatever test results I can. The worst part of it is it's happening over the weekend, lol. I can get someone to help run errands during the week, just not now.

 

Isn't that just like a cat ! - Mac is just the same with his shots - pulls away several times then when I get it done doesn't even notice . I'm like so what was all the fuss about then ? Felines

 

Its a lot to do. We understand the learning curve is steep. One step at a time!

A trick Ive seen mentioned here is clean the litter box Put a very small amount of litter in the box( enough so he can scratch in it). Prop one end of the bow up slightly Once he "goes" the urine will run down to the end not lifted. Dip in stick.

Once the strip is dipped the longer you wait the darker the strip will turn.

 

Hi Nick
If you don't have a rice sock or Bruce doesn't like it then what I do is to soak some folded kitchen paper with hot (not boiling water) from the kettle then put it inside a foodbag ( to keep the ear dry). Test the temp against my hand. Then hold the bag against the ear - I put it against the inside top half of the ear flap as I poke the outside. It also has the advantage that its easy to.mould to whatever shape you want.
I rub the outside of the ear gently with my thumb at the same time. Mac actually seemed to quite like having his ears warmed last time (cold day).
I think there could be a market out there for kitty ear warmers - a bit like mittens or egg cosies maybe ?

 

You are doing well.
Great there were no ketones. The urine sample of the glucose is really a snapshot of all the time since he last peed so he could have been low then high and you wouldn’t know.
That’s why testing the BG is so much better.

If you have any issues with setting up the spreadsheet just tell us and we will get someone to do it for you. No problem!

Good luck with the lancet hunt! Let us know how that goes.

The rice in the sock is a good idea!

Are you feeding between the cycle this morning? Or leaving food out for him?

 

Oh awesome! I'll have to give these a try. I'm lucky to get just enough urine at the moment but really need to figure out a longer term plan. I'll find the solution eventually.

On my first attempt at getting BG from him last night, he seemed quite content with having his ear warmed up. He wants the ear massage, just not the prick, lol. So I'm sure he'll get used to it. A massage and a snack, what's not to love? (Aside from getting pricked)

I leave food out for him to have a go at, he usually leaves it and eats most of it as a small meal at midday and then snacks in the afternoon. With the injection shift back to 8pm, that's closer to how things naturally play out- doesn't eat much for a few hours then wants a meal at 8.

 

I could get the lancets but not the device. From what I can tell, they're just available with the full kit and they didn't have those. I can try pricking his ear myself. I think he gets spooked by the big device and the click anyway. So I'll have a thorough look at the advice around that. I discovered cats ears are a very weird to prick lol. I've got some vaseoline petroleum jelly if that might help the blood stay in droplet form.

I'm keeping an eye on him in the meantime and he looks like he's doing just fine so far. I think the drops happen gradually between 1-4pm, it's 1:30 now so early stages. He's napping but he's more alert and lifting his head up when something happens. Usually as he drops I'd notice he just stays in the same spot and barely moves unless it's really necessary. So, good signs so far.

Do we think that just by default (assuming everything remains the same and no signs of hypo) I should stick to 1 unit twice a day? I'll post any readings I get, but there's no guarantee I can draw blood today while I'm learning. I'll get it within a few days though. I've requested the test results from the vet, too. I'll let you know when I get them.

 

Yes I would definitely stay with the 1 unit especially if you are not testing. Make sure he eats well and often especially in the first half of the cycles when the Insulin is usually the strongest.
Unless your testing tells you you need less insulin, you would be best to stay with1 unit for a week. have a look at the Start Low Go Slow method which is at the top of the Lantus page. I will send you the link. It’s a very good method, very reliable especially if you are starting off and getting used to it all. It gives you structure to go by.

if you think this is around the time he drops low, I would give him a good snack now.

Don’t forget to yell if you need help with the SS.

dosing methods
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

 

Thanks! I haven't set up the spreadsheet yet because "people and life". Hopefully will at least be able to look into it today. He's not taking to a snack at the moment unfortunately. I think he ate something about an hour or so ago though.

Attempting to get a reading tonight, so should I restrict his food 3 hours prior? I'm hoping he doesn't end up over-hungry again

 

Only restrict food for the 2 hours prior to the Preshot

 

Ah, cool. That's a lot easier to handle then. Thanks!

 

Gah! So close. I got about half the blood out that I needed so it gave me an error. His ear was nice and warm to the touch. I guess I need to massage it out a bit more? Or longer heat? It took a while for it to come out. I'll only make him go through that once, so I just gave 1 unit.

Also I got another even tinier urine sample right before his injection that looked about 15+. It's all I've got to go on right now, so all I can say is, higher than this morning's sample.

Because I'm leaving his food out overnight, I can't guarantee he hasn't eaten before his morning check. Is that ok? Or shall I leave it for the evenings?

 

Are you milking the ear before you prick it?
Were there any ketones in the test?

You need to leave food out for him at night as he’ll need to eat. I would also make sure he has a snack before you go to bed.
A lot of us use automatic timed feeders at night... and you can get it to turn two hours before the am shot to an empty slot. Do you think Bruce would eat from one?

How is the SS coming along?
@Bandit's Mom is online atm and she can help you set up the SS if you like. She will see this tag and answer it.

 

Hi Nick, Yes I am here and can help set-up the spreadsheet if you aren't able to do it yourself. Let me know?

Sharing the spreadsheet instructions again for ready reference:
FDMB SS Instructions

 

Ah. I was rubbing it and warming it, but not milking it. That makes sense. No ketones, but the sample wasn't great and only covered part of the strip. I couldn't get anything accurate. I'm shopping tomorrow for a better setup including hopefully aquarium gravel. I have someone to help me so I can really look around without getting overwhelmed (hopefully).

I was thinking about getting an auto feeder. I'm not sure he would like it to start off, he doesn't respond to food being put in his bowl unless it's wet. So an auto feeder would likely result in the food sitting there anyway.

And yeah that'd be really helpful to get it set up. Thank you so much! I'm just realising that I'm still really frazzled by everything so any help goes a long way.

 

You can use wet food in the autofeeders.
I got Sheba used to it by feeding her all her meals in it for a few days so she got used to it.
You should be able to get one online if you decide to get one.
I will find a link and send it to you.

 

Autofeeder
https://www.petcircle.com.au/produc...V2n8rCh0LUAkiEAQYDyABEgI9nfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Thanks! I'll have a look into it. That seems real nifty.

Currently getting the SS set up but dealing with brain lag lol. 5 min break, then should get it added to my signature and can get into the nitty gritty

 

You got this Nick!

 

Thanks for the encouragement! Bandit's Mom has offered help thankfully. My brain completely fried trying to set it up. This might be a job for tomorrow because it's getting late and I realise I didn't eat properly today. A good sleep and a good breakfast and I'll be up for another day of sorting this out. Keep on keepin on and all that ^^

 

Bhooma (Bandit's mom) is VERY good at doing this. I'm sure she can wait till you are ready Sleep well. Tomorrow is another day!

Thanks Bhooma you are awesome!

 

Nick -

Welcome to FDMB!

If it's not too much trouble, if you've gotten some of your preliminary questions answered, would you mind starting a new thread? Once a thread gets to be over 50 posts, it's difficult to take the time to wade through all of the information to insure that you've gotten your questions answered.

 

Here's the link to the SS
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NTuZ-h8sh6qpVNTtXHp9hQuhTKA20LXcBFCBV2GlfsE/edit?usp=sharing

 

Sorry Sienne I should have suggested that instead of add to it.

 

Been looking for the new thread, hope things are going well. I see there's what looks like a home-test in the spreadsheet, so well-done there! Please do let us know how things are going (or if someone could point me to the new thread if I've missed it somewhere)!

Edit: oop, found the new thread! Interpreting vet BG curve results