New Member 07/11/24

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Hi Liz and welcome to you and Clover to the forum.
(I have a Clover too!)
Can you give us some information about Clover please
Did she have a fructosamine test at diagnosis.?
What insulin and dose has she been prescribed?
There are three things needed for good management of feline diabetes. Low carb wet food 10% or under, a good insulin such as Lantus ( or biosimilar) or Prozinc and hometesting the blood glucose.
We can help you with all of that.
There is no need for expensive prescription foods. Low carb canned food from the pet stores or supermarkets is fine. Many feed fancy feast pates.
I will give you a FOOD CHART
And info for new members HELP US HELP YOU
Keep asking questions. It can be overwhelming in the beginning.
Bron
 
Hello! Clover did have a fructosamine test and a urinalysis. No ketones present. Glucose was present in her urine. No insulin has been prescribed. Per the vet, I have taken away all crunchies and am now feeding her a low carb wet food only diet. Vet wants to see her again in a month. The hope is that we can bring her numbers down through diet alone without needing medication. Her numbers are not crazy high (as I've been told).. I can send you the lab results but not sure if it's possible to attach them. I joined a feline diabetes group on Facebook that has been immensely helpful and told me to join this message board. I sent the results to the admin of that group. I have reviewed the list and have been researching foods over the last 3 days to make sure that what I already have is sufficient and I've also ordered more food that is low carb. The admin of the group also directed me to a metabolize energy calculator so that I can calculate any food necessary from the guaranteed analysis. I was told that I need to get a glucose monitor and supplies to start testing Clover at home even though she's not on insulin. I'm still working up the nerve to do that I'm really terrified of this. Clover is a FIP survivor and we've gone through a lot so far. She went through her 84-day treatment and then an 84-day observation. She has been deemed clinically cured as of June 14th 2024. I have extremely high anxiety when it comes to health issues with my babies, and I want to do the right things. But I also have a lot of fear surrounding all of this and I'm just trying to work through it as best as I can. The Facebook group has been very supportive and helpful and I'm so grateful that I was directed there, which has now led me to this message board.
 
Sounds as if you are getting well organised. Well done!
I’m so pleased you are going to start hometesting the blood glucose. I’ll give you a link at the end for info on it.
A good glucose meter is the ReliOn premier from Walmart. You will also need a box of test strips, a box of lancets size 26 or 28 and some cotton balls to hold behind the ear when testing. Expect to fail a few times… we all did in the beginning but follow the tips and suggestions and you will soon be an old pro with it. Don’t be terrified, just take one day at a time and we will support you. Post each day.
I’m not sure I would leave it a month before going back to the vet again. Two weeks should tell you if the food change is enough. And while you are waiting this two weeks I would test the urine every couple of days for ketones. The reason I say this is because diabetic cats need insulin and if they are not getting it, they can develop ketones and you would need to start insulin straight away. It’s an insurance policy and well worth it.
You will need a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and follow directions on the bottle.
If you can get the signature and spreadsheet set up that will be very helpful. Let me know if you have any trouble with the spreadsheet.
TIPS AND LINKS TO HOMETESTING
 
I am able to open the spreadsheet but it's not a blank copy. I don't know how to use this forum very well I apologize. All of this is so new to me. I was able to successfully do a home test on my first try today. I don't know for sure if she had eaten within 2 hours before I tested. Honestly I was more concerned about being able to do it in the first place because all of this is terrifying. But I successfully did it and her number on the Relion monitor was 210. In the Facebook group I have been told that normal range on this human monitor would be 50 to 120. My question is this. Her glucose level at the vet was 351. I don't understand what 210 means in kitty cat language. Are we moving in the right direction? Can you translate what 210 would be in kitty cat language for me please
 
There's a good chance that your cat was stressed by being at the vet. Many of our kitties have a stress reaction from car rides and being at the vet. Stress caused blood glucose numbers to rise. However, if you've changed your cat's diet, that may also account for the lower numbers. In other words, you're going in the right direction.

However, I suspect that diet alone is not going to be sufficient. I'm concerned that the vet wanted you to wait a month before making a decision about your cat needing insulin. I'd encourage you to keep testing. If after another week, you're not seeing numbers getting into a normal range, I'd call your vet and let the vet know that there's not much of a change.

If you need help with the spreadsheet, I'm tagging one of our members who can help: @Bandit's Mom
 
Thank you! I will continue testing her, and I have taken away all of her dry food and I'm making sure she's under 10 ME carbs with all of her wet food. I am hopeful that diet alone will change this. I will also be testing her ketones as soon as I'm able to get a sample of her urine. Thankfully at the time of the vet visit there were no ketones present. I will wait another week and then decide what next steps to take from there. Thank you for assisting me with the spreadsheet, I still don't feel like I know what I'm doing with all of this. Why will this not allow me to upload files? I wanted to send you guys the lab results but it tells me I don't have permissions to upload. Is it supposed to be restricted?
 
Looking after a diabetic kitty is a big learning curve. We all started where you are now…overwhelmed…just take one day at a time and keep posting. You will soon be an old pro at it. :)
I’m glad you are going to test for ketones in the urine.

To post the lab results you can copy and paste them into this space. The upload a file is not working.
 
Thank you! Someone in my Facebook group has created a spreadsheet for me. I think now three people have told me that I probably should bring her in sooner than waiting an entire month like my vet advised. I really want to do what's best for her. And you guys are giving me a lot more Direction than my vet did. Thank you so much. I really just need to think on things and pray make sure that I'm making the right decisions for her. I'm trying to get past operating out of fear
 
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Platelets are a bit high but they clump sometimes and I don’t know if they would worry about them.
I’m not sure why the electrolytes are a bit out of kilter. Did the vet comment about them?
Urine looks good…no ketones and the specific gravity is good.
i will tag @Suzanne & Darcy to see if she would like to comment in lab results.
 
Thank you! No my vet didn't tell me anything other than about the glucose and urinalysis information. I'm actually in the process of possibly switching vets because I had a really bad experience today when I try to communicate with her about starting insulin. I am just really really upset, this is all so overwhelming. I'm going to speak with her on Wednesday without taking my girl in and see if I want to move forward with her as my vet. But in the meantime I started looking for another vet and I also have a consult with that new vet on wednesday. Surprisingly the new vet agreed to consult with me without having to bring my girl in because I didn't want to cause extra stress and I want to make sure it's a good fit before I jump ship and go to a completely different vet. This is all too much, I'm just trying to do the right things for my baby
 
I am so sorry you are having this trouble. It is very overwhelming in the beginning and you certainly don’t want issues with vets as well. But hang in there…it will all get sorted out.
You need a vet who will work with you in partnership to help treat Clover.
Make sure you take all the tests in to the new vet so she/he can see them.
And remember you are Clover’s advocate…she can’t talk for herself.
Also be upfront and say you want to have a vet who will support you with hometesting and a low carb diet and mention this forum and you are posting on here. If the vet is good and knows a lot about feline diabetes, they will be happy to support you with all of those.
A lot of vets are not up to date with feline diabetes…they have a lot of animals and diseases to look after, and feline diabetes has moved forward a lot in the last several years.
Make sure whichever vet you choose is aware of your plan moving forward. The insulins you want to be using are either Lantus (or a biosimilar,) or Prozinc. Don’t accept vetsulin or NovolinN. Personally I like Lantus.
HERE is a link to things to ask a vet about treating Clover, when choosing a new vet.

Did @Bandit's Mom get back to you about the spreadsheet yet?
 
Wow that is a long list of questions LOL. The Facebook group directed me to some questions but definitely was not that extensive. One of the Facebook group admins was able to get me started on the spreadsheet so I'm good there thank you. The funny thing is that my current vet has a kitty with diabetes. And she wasn't even aware of the website that has that huge food list of low carb foods. She told me that another doctor in the office told her about that list. There have been many things that have made me not feel easy about trusting her completely, but when she snapped at me today it really kind of pushed me over the edge. After Clover was first diagnosed and I was researching foods, I tried to ask her about ME carbs. I honestly don't know if she even knows how to calculate them or what they are because she just ignored my text. I'm not trying to vet bash, I guess I'm venting a little bit because today was extremely upsetting. Gosh you guys probably hear so many stories and feel like therapists. I'm sorry. I'm just overwhelmed I know I'll get through this but this was just a really really bad day today. I'm just hoping and praying that the new vet will be a good fit. I think it's promising that they agreed to meet with me without having to bring clover in. And although the receptionist is not the doctor, she was very very compassionate and kind to me when I completely lost my emotions and started crying on the phone. So I think that's a good sign in some respect. One concern I have about the new vet is that she just graduated in 2021 . So she's not one of the more seasoned vets within the practice. But I'm trying to be positive about it and think that well maybe she's more up on the latest things and not so set in her ways to where she won't listen to people. I don't know I just hope it works out for the best because I obviously have to have a doctor for my babies. Thank you for the support you guys provide.
 
You are not vet bashing, you are just stating facts. And as you are paying for their services, it is your decision as to what you choose to do. Snapping at a caregiver is not on.
The new young vet may be more up to date with latest treatments… depending what she was taught… and hopefully will be willing to learn along with you. Some new vets want to prove themselves and will not take kindly to someone who wants to know all about feline diabetes as well. If she is confident in her abilities hopefully she will be more accepting of your points of view. I was very lucky. I had a vet who was willing to listen to things I had learned and he was quite happy for me to do the dosing of the insulin and he just looked after all the other things. He was older but was willing to learn. I was so sorry when he retired!
We get a lot of people in your position and everyone arrives here overwhelmed. All of us here have had diabetic cats and have lived with them 24/7 for years so nothing surprises us. We all know the highs and lows, the big learning curve in the beginning and the frustrations of finding good vets.
Be strong when you see the new vet. Don’t agree with anything you are uncomfortable with.
I’ll be interested to hear how you go with the new vet. Please let us know:bighug:
 
Hi! Just wanted to give you a quick update on the consultation I had with the new vet. She was very kind and compassionate, and I explained how I am seeking help from you guys and she was open to working with me for Clover's care. She agrees that Clover should go on insulin, and she is willing to prescribe Lantus or prozinc. Prozinc was her goto, but she had no objections when I brought up Lantus. She doesn't understand the home human meter. But she said that before I get an alpha track, which I am willing to do, she said we could compare glucose between my meter and the pet meter to see how they compare. But ironically she also brought up the freestyle Libre. LOL I'm not going to fault her for that or read too much into that, because I don't know that I will ever find the most perfect vet. However, she's much more open to working with me and not trying to completely run the show. She took no offense to me seeking outside help and she is huge on researching things. She agrees that we need to have open communication and that I feel comfortable coming to her with things and she feels comfortable giving me her honest opinions. So with all that being said I got a good feeling from her, and I feel like she's going to be a better fit than the old vet. I was supposed to meet with the old vet today as well but I canceled the appointment cuz I really wasn't ready or needing a confrontation when I already feel like I'm just going to leave her practice anyway. I will give it a few days probably and then I will send her an email thanking her for the care that she's provided to my pets but that I'm going to go elsewhere. As far as the alpha track goes, I honestly would like a monitor that is more comparable to what the Vets numbers read. It's more of a personal thing for me that I can compare apples to apples and understand things better. So anyway I just wanted to let you know that things are feeling a bit better than they were a few days ago, and of course I will be reaching out with questions and advice and probably emotions at some point LOL
 
I’m so glad the vet appointment went well.
As far a the pet meter v human meter goes, the human meter numbers are very similar to the freestyle libre which is a human meter, except that once the numbers get under 100 on the libre, they are not reliable. That has nothing to do with being a human meter but is with the actual device itself.
We have people here that use the pet meter, but the majority use the human meter as it is much cheaper to run…ie the test strips are much much cheaper.
And our dosing methods are based on the human meter.
The difference between the pet and human meters is that the human meter runs a bit lower than the pet meter. But is saying all of that it is up to you which one you chooose.
 
You guys would still be able to help me with dosing if I get the pet meter though right? The vet said that she does not want me to change doses without discussing it with her. She's not going to make me come in, but she said that if I feel like the dose needs to be changed I need to email her and discuss it so that they can keep their records straight on their end and also so she can advise on if that is the correct thing to do. Which I do understand
 
Liz Brautigam said:
You guys would still be able to help me with dosing if I get the pet meter though right? The vet said that she does not want me to change doses without discussing it with her. She's not going to make me come in, but she said that if I feel like the dose needs to be changed I need to email her and discuss it so that they can keep their records straight on their end and also so she can advise on if that is the correct thing to do. Which I do understand
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Yes we can still help you if you are using a pet meter. We follow dosing methods here, so once you decide on a dosing method…depending what insulin you are using…you can send the dosing method to the vet so that we are all on the same page.

Don’t forget the get the spreadsheet and signature set up.
 
I have the spreadsheet :) ... can you give me a quick rundown of how the dosing methods work for Lantus and prozinc? Like as far as are they both twice a day with meals?
 
Yes they are both twice a day after meals. So with both insulins you test, feed then give the dose.
Prozinc is an ‘in and out insulin’ meaning one dose does not affect the next dose and the full effect of the dose is felt with each dose.
Lantus is a depot insulin so each dose can effect the next. Initially it takes 5 to 7 days for the depot to fill and for the full effect of the dose to be felt. Sounds complicated but it’s not. Lantus gives lovely flat cycles once the cat is regulated. I used it and loved it. We have a lot more people who use Lantus than use Prozinc so you will have more people around to help if you use Lantus.
Here is a link to WHAT IS AN INSULIN DEPOT

And the TWO DOSING METHODS FOR LANTUS

and DOSING METHODS FOR PROZINC
 
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