? New. Learning. Lost.

Status
Not open for further replies.
westcoastdeb

westcoastdeb

Member
We are only on day 3 of insulin - so I know we are super early into the game - but...AMPS reading today of 493 has me concerned. It was nice to see some lower numbers mid cycle yesterday. What should I be expecting this early into his treatment?

Deb
 
Cats can tolerate high numbers for longer periods of time, very low numbers are a emergency. It takes a few days of giving the same dosage of insulin for numbers to equalize given that you don't change food nor the cat gets other sources. In the early stages, lots of testing is necessary to find the correct dosage. Fancy Feast Classic ( only those) is a good choice to start.
Best wishes.
 
Also, where are you guys getting your ProZinc? I keep hoping for some magical secret site where it is NOT $125 (including shipping) .

Doesn't exist, right?

Deb
 
Welcome Manny and Deb,

You are doing all things well! Congrats! Good insulin - little higher dose than we might suggest for a new diabetic, but you are home testing so you can keep a careful eye on things. Home testing - fantastic! Diet - working on it.

I think it is probably early days yet and the dry food. That can make a huge difference in levels. So continue working on transitioning (let us know if you want help - we have lots of ideas for switching difficult eaters) and watch for lower levels. The insulin is dropping him. Just not enough, but the food can change that.
 
Last edited:
Hi Deb
welcome to the Prozinc forum - what kind of dry food is Manny getting now? That's good that you are doing the transition to wet - Sue is right - it might have a huge impact on the blood sugar numbers 2 units is rather high to start - is that what the vet suggested?
 
Hi Deb and welcome to the best place you never wanted to be. It looks like you are doing really well, 3 days on insulin and you all ready found this forum, set up your signature and SS , WOW! I am in awes. Echoing what Sue said about the dry food and keeping numbers higher so when you do the complete transition to FF Classic wet food, continue to monitor as you could see a big drop as much as 100 points or more.

It takes at least a month for the kitty to get used to the insulin working with new food so don't get discouraged. Just shout when you have a question ; we are here to help.

ETA oh and you are all ready home testing! Kudos to you! Keep up the good work.:cat:
 
Hi Deb! I do think once you get all the way to wet food that will help. We generally see that wet food drops kitties numbers a great deal.
 
+8 and his blood sugar is 98.

Is that good...bad?
He has had NO dry kibble in that time.

This is more complicated than I expected.
 
That's a nice number. We think of regulation as mid 200s for preshot and low 100s or double digits for nadir (but above 50 for a human meter and 68 for a pet meter which are approaching hypo range). We do suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200 human meter/250 pet meter until you have enough data to predict what his levels might be.

If he is near 200 at preshot, you can stall. Wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest, to make sure the number is rising, not falling and above 200. If he is far below 200, you should skip the shot and reduce the dose for the next cycle. You want two shootable preshot numbers every 12 hours.

The protocol we put together for ProZinc is in my signature in blue.
 
What a wonderful number for a +8! See what I mean about getting rid of the dry food? Looking so good. :cat: Happy Happy dance over here.
 
It's still okay but you might get a number below 200 in 2 hours. So you'll need to try stalling (if he is close to 200) or skip if he is a lot lower. In the latter case, you probably will need to lower the dose tomorrow morning so you get 2 shootable numbers every 12 houra
 
Ideally, you want two shootable numbers 12 hours apart to know that it's a workable dose. But, if your PMPS is under 200 you should skip and then reduce tomorrow morning. Since you have weaned of the dry food and have seen the drop in numbers, if it were my kitty, and I was skipping tonight, I would reduce to 1 unit tomorrow and see how that dose will do. 1 unit is more like what we would have recommended you to start at anyway. Note: in the event that you are below 200 tonight and skip, the number will likely be higher tomorrow because of that so don't let that get you upset.

I think with the absence of dry food a restart to 1 unit is a good idea and take it from there. Let's see if there are other ideas.

Note: usually, we increase and decrease in .25 unit increments but this is a restart.
 
90 and 97 are basically the same number. Don't shoot insulin tonight. And let's start over tomorrow with a 1 unit dose. How does that sound?
 
westcoastdeb said:
Oh he was not getting any tonight! One unit in the AM it is!

Thanks for the patience and advice

Deb and Manny
Click to expand...

See you in the AM ! Oh, Deb, what kind of meter are you using? When you get a chance, could you add it to your signature. Whether it is a human meter or an animal AT2 meter impacts the way advice givers guide you. Have a nice night!


ETA: However the meter won't impact tonight's advice.
 
Remember, if you get a number below 200 tomorrow, don't shoot. Either stall 20 min with NO food and see if he goes over 200 or skip if it's low like tonight. It's highly unlikely you'll get a low number since you didn't have a shot tonight...but I've seen it happen!

I think a restart is a good plan. Clearly he doesn't need 2 units! This is exciting...I love seeing some low numbers!
 
westcoastdeb said:
AMPS 442
+ 5 277

Aside from begging for his dear dry food back he is doing excellent. He has some sproing back in his step!
Click to expand...
That was a nice drop from the AMPS to the +5 so a bounce is possible but you will want to hold this dose for at least 6 cycles so we can see if this dose is working for him unless of course it drops him below 50 at nadir then we would reduce again.
 
Hung out today and did our first curve - which has been more a flat line than curve. I did not test him till +4 though.

I'm taking stable as good. In an hour we start PM dose.
 
Looking good. With ProZinc the curve looks like a smile. The highest points should be the AMPS and PMPs and then it dips lower, lower, lowest(for the nadir) then starts to go back up again. That is exactly what Manny's curve is doing. I am gad to see that after the big drop from this AMPS that he flattened out. All is good. Keep up the good testing.
 
PM +1 is 86...so it will go down father with the insulin, right? I know I ask after pretty much every shot but this is hard - should I be concerned? He ate at time of shot.

Deb
 
That is pretty low for +1. If he will eat, I would give him a little regular food and test again in an hour.

I know this is nerve wracking, but his numbers are really nice, improving daily. But tonight you may have to steer with food, to keep him in higher ranges. You don't want him under 50.
 
Hi Deb, yeah as Sue said, give him a little regular food like an 1/8 of a can of FF classics to stablilize the drop. This is wonderful progress and you will want to continue to test him through the +6 or 7 to make sure that he is not continuing to drop further. After that point, you want to see him rising back up.
 
Just a little snack. You want him to eat for you if/when you need him to.

Deb, do you have any gravy food? If he drops low, a little bit of gravy may bring him up, without filling him up. And honey?
 
I am going for the night. I would test him a few more times. If he is 50, give him a teaspoon full of the gravy off gravy high carb and retest in 20 minutes. If he would continue to drop, rub honey on his gums. You want three rising tests before you can relax.

If you need help, post on Health where there tends to be more eyes late at night.
 
Yes, I just peaked at you SS. Just wondering ,did you give HC food last night to bring up that 86? It's helpful when you do use food to steer to indicate it somewhere on your SS either in the comments section at what + the food was giving, how much, what kind, LC, MC. or HC. That way if you need to steer again, you are a record of what kind of food worked for you and how much it brought the numbers up to. Just a thought. He is doing great!
 
Turns out I made a mistake with so much learning so quickly. They day he was in the 80s I was not feeding him enough for his weight. He got 1/2 can lc wet 2x instead of a full can. No woner the poor guy was ravenous! I fed him the rest of his half can and that brought him up to 134 and let me sleep!

Now I am at +13 (long work days...) and he is 197. I am waiting to retest in about 15 but for future reference, 197 is not shootable even though it is almost 200, right?

ETA: 15 mins later he is at 155. No shot, just food.

Deb
 
Last edited:
Good job. Shows why a repeat test is necessary, to be sure the number is going up, not down.

Tomorrow he may be high, because he will have been 24 hours since the last shot. But I would still reduce a little - maybe a fat 0.5. (Pull up one unit and let out drops until you are just over 0.5)

He is looking great, for so early in the sugar dance and at such a tiny dose.
 
Yes, higher. Maybe give 0.5 a couple more cycles. Some mid cycle numbers will give you a clearer picture. If you can get some nadirs and he is still kinda flat and high, you might consider trying for a dose between 0.5 and one unit?
 
So what we might take away from this cycle: avoid skipping whenever possible. ( I agree with your choice this am) Your only other alternatives today would have been to shoot late (2 hours after he eats) and adjust your schedule tonight. Or stall and stall again and hope he is high enough.(That might involve your hiding in the bathroom to avoid feeding :p).

You can shoot a much smaller dose if he'd rise at least to 180 or so. 200 is best for newbies. Now that you know how to test and are confident, you could consider lowering that no shoot numbers and plan to give a drop or so.

And anytime you have to skip and have the opportunity, you can also shoot early the next preshot - maybe catching him at +10/11 before he soars. Again, it can mess up your schedule but it might avoid those high preshots.

Just some ideas for next time.
 
Manny got his first blue mid day number! GOOOOOO Kitty! I needed to see that after his 500+ the other day.

I read yesterday about the strict protocol and really would love to do that with him but...ah, the 12 hour work days. Maybe he will still be kicking around in 40 years when I retire and we can go down that road ;)

(I see diabetic cat fostering in my future -- because I am a glutton for punishment)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top