New & kinda freaking out

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MsPIsMe

New Member
Hello to any & all -

Mac was recently diagnosed, about two weeks ago on a Friday ... started presciption diet & told to monitor for 2 wks - following Tuesday was diagnosed w/ a UTI & began antibiotics - again, complete antib. & monitor for 2 wks. A week from that Tuesday the begging slowed down significantly but urine output still high ... last night/this morning (Thursday) I've noticed a decrease in appetite, no begging but low energy although he will follow me into the kitchen seemingly wanting to eat - taking him in first thing for glucose test/fruct. testing is glucose is high .... I am open to insulin - open to anything at this point, but really, really scared my kitty isn't going to bounce back .... I don't have numbers to share & don't have enough thorough knowledge to share more info - just hoping someone can talk me off the ledge a little or let me know what I can/should expect from here on ....
 
Welcome! Every one of us has been in your situation. It is terrifying and confusing, but please understand, feline diabetes is treatable. You have done the research that brought you here, a proactive step in the process of treating Mac. The people on this board are incredibly knowledgeable and very generous with their time and support. You will never be alone with this. I am a relative newbie here too, I won’t be able to provide any advice, but I look forward to sharing this journey with you.

When you get back from the vet today, please come back and give us a report. Good luck
 
You can test blood glucose at home, and save yourself a bundle of money.
Pick up a human blood glucose monitor, lancets, test strips for the meter at any pharmacy.
Home testing is the way to go to be sure what your cat's numbers are when at home in familiar surroundings.
Cats are mostly STRESSED at the vet, so their numbers are often higher than their normal numbers.
You may find out that with a change to low carb wet cat food, and clearing up the infections is all you cat needs.... there are many, many cats who are DIET CONTROLLED. THE vet prescription food is not the best, and you will be fine just feeding foods like fancy feast or friskies, pate flavors, no gravies.

It's best to try for control by diet alone and not have to bother with insulin.... you will still need to test BG numbers to be sure your cat stays within a good range.

If you want to select good low carb wet foods, refer to Binky's list below and read through the other link as well.

Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

Last, there is nothing to freak out about because there are so very many people here who can help you every step of the way, whether you need to start insulin or not.
One other item to purchase at the pharmacy is a box of Ketostix so that you can test your cat's urine for Ketones.
Some info on the topic:

Ketones
Pet Diabetes Wiki: Ketoacidosis

Pats for your kitty and welcome to both of you.
 
Welcome to you and Mac....
I would guess the most important thing I could tell you is to test at home! No matter what your vet says.... My vet told me it really was not that important to do....that was the WORST ADVICE I have ever got from a doc. vet or not!
My Bean was dx in April and started on 1 unit of PZI insulin, and went back to the vet 1 wk later, and he increased the dose to 2 units - 2 times a day.... meanwhile, I found this WONDERFUL place and did not double the amount...
I also started testing (not the easiest thing at first) unsuccessfully, and when I did get our first reading, my Bean was only 27!!!! You can view that in my spreadsheet at the bottom if you would like. Of course, this was after the vet was closed.... It was this place, these wonderful ppl that helped me and my Sugar Bean to increase that bg number and she made it thru.
I am not trying to scare you, but I still think because what she went thru (ok and me too), that is the most important part with low carb, type of insulin coming in close behind.
My Bean is now in remission due to this site, everyones knowledge and support for us newbies! Bean still only gets low carb wet food, and low carb treats!

Goood luck and keep us posted!
 
I can soooo relate to how you are feeling. All this stuff going on with the cat's health and disagreements among vets and yadda yadda. My Roy was diagnosed with FD a few days before Halloween. The Vet gave me insulin, syringes, a special diet...I go to Wallymart and get a meter, strips, lancet, ketostix, yadda yadda.

HA! I read this site, every little word. I read everything I can. Meanwhile I am shooting up my cat with insulin, he hates me because his ears are pincushions....

THEN!!!!!

I think it was around 3am...I tested his blood. His level was 2.4................MAJOR FREAK OUT...my hands were shaking, I thought I was going to pass out, I thought I was going to kill Roy or that he was going to die...It was just dreadful.

BUT

I had Sue's number in Colorado and she told me what to do, how to do it, her voice was calm, sure, and soothing.

Roy's level went up to 3.4 or 3.7 (I don't remember) after the administrations and doing what Sue had told me to. Even so, it's my first go round dealing with this issue and Holy Doodle....I mean can I really trust what these people on the internet are telling me? After all, I don't know from Adam...or are they just giving gears???

So, off the Animal ER I go...when I get there Roy's level is 7.9 (prolly from what Sue had told me to do...confirmed by the Vet in the ER)

So, I say to you, in all good conscience, ASK, LISTEN, and FOLLOW the advice given to you on this site. The people on this site are cat savers. I cannot be more succinct.

Kindest regards,
Cheryl
 
Welcome Extra sweet Mac and MamaBean!

First - breathe! You can really breathe now - you're both going to be just fine!

We're too new to give dosing advice but we're a really good cheering section! KT was diagnosed June 8th so we're still doing the 'regulation' dance but we've got the steps down pat, we just have to convince his body that low numbers are OK again! Lower numbers do make them feel like laying around because their bodies aren't used to being in that 'normal' zone. KT even now reminds me when it's our usual test time, the longer I put it off the more insistent he becomes.

You'll soon have numbers to share! You've landed in the right place to learn to deal with this hiccup for both of you.

BIG loooong hug - it WILL BE OK! ...oh, and 'breathe'.....
 
What people have told you so far is fantastic!
All I will add is this
I f your vet wants to do a fruc. test, that is good. It will show you kitty's average blood glucose over two or three weeks which is valuable information when diagnosing FD.
If they precribe insulin, ask them WHY that certain type (there are several). And if they prescribe a specific dose, ask them WHY again. It is important to umderstand their logic AND it will tell you and us a lot about their understanding of FD and how it can best be managed.
And let us know what you find out?
Welcome to the family!
Carl
 
Just got off the phone w/ my vet (dropped off my boy this morning at 8) .... Mac's BG was well over 500 ("off the scale") and he was severely dehydrated; they've given him fluids and started him on glargine (sp?) - selected this type b/c he felt cats respond best to it & it's peakless. They are holding him until later this afternoon to check he levels again, but after 3 he's free to go home w/ me - & his next shot will be due at 8 this evening. Y0u guys are telling me to test at home but the vet said it wasn't needed (I believe I'm going to listen to you guys) - also said to continue the DM short term but that long-term use probably wasn't going to be effective - my boy likes his 9 lives better, but I'm sure there are other canned foods that are far better for his health - so while I'm relieved the wait is over, I fear the real journey is only beginning. I just hope my boy is in better shape than what I saw this morning b/c that was nothing short of heart-breaking.
 
Y0u guys are telling me to test at home but the vet said it wasn't needed (I believe I'm going to listen to you guys)
Click to expand...
So glad you are going to listen to us but I am also glad vet is using Lantus(Glargine). Also, there is nothing wrong with 9 lives......a lot of us use Friskies and FancyFeast.

Since learning to hometest back in '98 I have never given a shot of insulin without testing first....I'm too chicken to shoot blind and risk one of my cats lives.
 
Forgot to mention that his insulin dose is supposed to be 2 units twice a day .... in reading some other posts earlier this morning that seems high, but I'm guessing that since his BG is so high, the required insulin dose must be "high" as well ....
 
Ok, My Beans bg was low 500 - AT THE VET, once I got her home she was NEVER that high - see my spreadsheet..... and yes, good idea to listen to the folks that tell you start low - go slow and perhaps start testing first....walmart - whole set up under 50.00...
I use the relion meter because the strips are affordable.
Some neosporin w/ pain for the area on the ear....
the regular rice for the sock (I found the baby sock works for us better)
the lancets which I purchased the larger gauge number and smaller gauged number as well. The smaller gauge number is actually better at first.
Ketone sticks
And of course some low carb treats (petco brand tuna flakes works great in my home)

Done, all except to find those big girl pants - heheeheh to get the job done. nailbite_smile

This will work and your baby will do just fine when momma gets him home ;-)

I know alot of folks (newbies) will post what part of town they are in and ASK FOR SOME HELP.... I did and am glad I did so.

Now, I will leave it to the insulin experts as Bean was only on PZI insulin for less than a month! GO BEAN GO!!!!!
 
Okay, I'm going to demonstrate my total lack of knowledge & hope that someone can empathize .... I see the spreadsheets that you guys are referring to but I can't make sense of them .... & while I totally get home testing, I don't know how often I am supposed to test or even what levels I should be looking/hoping for or what levels are worrisome - I got from my vet that 500 is bad - but I don't know what range is considered acceptable .... gosh, I'm overwhelmed - & to think I'm supposed to give my boy a shot tonight when I'm this painfully ignorant seems incredibly reckless.
 
First, is ok to feel this way.
You would want to take up food aprox. 2 hours before you test....
You always test before you give shot.
You want to test for curve - about every 2 - 3 hours but mid cycle which I believe is 7-8 hours after the type of insulin you are going to give - BUT I will let the folks that actually shoot that insulin let you know.
Most of us work and cannot test for curve all the time...
BUT ALWAYS before shot - just in case Mac is low and wont need insulin.....Like my Bean girl was... You will learn how to read the spread sheets - PROMISE ;-)
I have sent you a private message.... you can find that in the top left corner - will say messages next to user log in.... click on it and it will take you to your private messages...click and then they will open....

Just remember, wont be too long and you will be helping someone along as well :lol:
 
Tell us your city and state -- we probably have someone near enough to help you. If you have a Walmart or Target or pharmacy like CVS or Walgreens or Rite-Aid, you can pick up a home testing glucometer and strips, as well as ketone sticks to test his urine. Numbers in the 500s (assuming they remain that high at home vs. at the vet) are worrisome. My Donovan was over 500 as well when he was diagnosed. It took me a while to work up the courage to hometest him. Just do it. You, and he, will get over it, and feel so much better afterward.

You are scared, you are confused, and you love your cat. Like most of us, you're probably thinking "Holy crap, how can I do this?!?" You can. Glargine (aka Lantus) is a good insulin. Once you start getting data, there is a specific Lantus group here who will guide you along: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

One step at a time.

MJ&Donovan
 
Okay let me see if I can straighten some of this out for you....normal bloodsugar for a non-diabetic cat is between 40-150 on a human meter, slightly higher if using a pet calibrated meter, but a human meter works just fine. For those just starting out like yourself, we recommend to not shoot if your boy is below 200. 2units is a rather high starting dose, personally I would go with 1u twice a day to start, while testing at home and see if you need more or not. My own cat Maxwell as 485 when he was diagnoised and within 2 weeks of 1u twice a day and a change in diet was in remission and off insulin altogether, and he just celebrated his first year insulin-free on the 1st of this month.

Don't bother with the DM if your guy likes 9-lives, I have 13 cats (2 of which are diabetics) and not a single one of them would touch the DM stuff after the novelty wore off in about 2 days. Maxwell went into remission on Friskies and 9-lives. You just want to stick with the pate style and stay away from the gravy laden stuff.

As far as when to test, at the very least you want to test before each shot and then again around six hours afterwards, since with Lantus (glargine) this is when it peaks or when his bloodsugar will be the lowest it is going to go during that cycle. Now some cats do peak sooner and some peak later, but on average it is right around 6 hours after the shot.

Now for reading the spreadsheets:

AMPS = Morning Preshot number
+1, +2, +3 etc is the number of hours after the shot has been given (we use the +s since we are worldwide and makes it easier than trying to remember who is in what time zone)
PMPS = evening prehot number
U = dosage given
And well comments is where you can put in any extra notes, like what/how much he ate, how he is acting or when you started a new vial/pen.

Does that explain everything?

It will get much easier once your boy is home and you are actually walking through the steps I promise. In fact it got so easy for me that I adopted not one but two cats from this very board as diabetics even though I already had 11 happy and healthy cats.

Just keep asking questions and we will be here to answer them and hold your hand and paw through it all.

We also offer newbie home testing kits through this site, we all donate to them so that folks like you get off to a flying start. Lori and Tom (GA) run them, just scroll up tot he top of the page and click in the Kits for Cats. The kits cost one penny and shipping is 6.99 but you will get everything you need to test at home as well as a nice catnip toy for Mr. Mac.

Oh and the biggest piece of advice......BREATHE!!!!

Welcome to the FDMB Family and dancing with a Sugarcat.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
MsPIsMe said:
Forgot to mention that his insulin dose is supposed to be 2 units twice a day .... in reading some other posts earlier this morning that seems high, but I'm guessing that since his BG is so high, the required insulin dose must be "high" as well ....
Click to expand...

2u is a little high for a starting dose. How much does Mac weigh and how much is he supposed to weigh? According to the Lantus dosing protocol, the starting dose should be .25u per kg of ideal weight. The starting dose for most cats is usually about 1u according to this guideline.

If your cat is not an unusually large cat, then a starting dose of 2u may be counterproductive. Most cats on a low carb canned diet do not need much more than 1u of Lantus. It's better and safer to start at a lower dose and work your way up to 2u if that's what Mac needs. You don't want to skip over Mac's ideal dose, because you don't know if Mac's blood sugar will drop once he's eating the right food, nor how he will react to the Lantus. As an example, Bandit weighs 13 lbs and was ranging from 300-500+ when he was diagnosed, and he never needed more than 1u of insulin the entire time he was on Lantus. You also will find that once you start testing at home, his blood sugar will be a little lower. This is because tests at the vet tend to show higher blood glucose because the cat is stressed out.
 
MsPIsMe said:
Okay, I'm going to demonstrate my total lack of knowledge & hope that someone can empathize .... I see the spreadsheets that you guys are referring to but I can't make sense of them .... & while I totally get home testing, I don't know how often I am supposed to test or even what levels I should be looking/hoping for or what levels are worrisome - I got from my vet that 500 is bad - but I don't know what range is considered acceptable .... gosh, I'm overwhelmed - & to think I'm supposed to give my boy a shot tonight when I'm this painfully ignorant seems incredibly reckless.
Click to expand...


With Lantus, you need to test at least 3 times a day--before each shot, and then a test around 6 hours after either shot. This is because you want to catch the lowest number of the cycle, or the nadir, each day in order to determine the correct dose (I know your vet said that Lantus does not peak--this isn't exactly true. Lantus does peak, but it's a much smaller peak than other insulins). I work crazy long days, so I was never to get this number during the day. So what I would do is set an alarm to get a test 6 hours after his PM shot, and then go right back to sleep.
 
I arrived as a newbie last weekend and felt JUST LIKE YOU DO!!! It's less than a week later and I have settled back down to Earth thanks to everyone here on these boards. They really know their stuff and are here to help and support you through things. I backed off for a week just to get my feet underneath me. I plan to start the insulin this weekend (so I can be home and not at work to watch him through his first couple of days). Don't feel pressured to do anything you aren't ready for. I wanted to get a better understanding of where Tiki's blood numbers were to start so I've been testing him all week (mostly) and he has been very cooperative and is settling into the "routine." I am really nervous to start the insulin on Saturday but it's got to be done. At least I feel better and more secure about things than I did last weekend. If you want to take a couple of days to, as they say, BREATHE, it's ok. It's made a world of difference for how I feel today!

Good Luck to you and your kitty!
 
Larry and Kitties said:
You really do not have to test three times a day every day. Testing before each shot is highly, hightly recommended.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. It is very difficult to dose Lantus appropriately initially without daily mid-cycle tests because of rebound, which can last up to 72 hours. Once a cat is used to being in a normal BG range and glucose is no longer being released into the bloodstream as a response to normal or low blood sugar, then I would say you probably don't need a mid-cycle test every single day if they're hard to collect. In the beginning, however, you need the compete picture to make dose adjustments, if you're following the dosing protocol.

It's really not that hard to get that extra mid-cycle test in, especially once testing gets so much easier after a few weeks. The test doesn't have to be exactly 6 hours after the shot--you can move it around anywhere between 4-8 hours after the shot. But the first step is just starting to test, period. You do need a little time to get used to it, so don't get stressed out if you can't get all the tests you want to get the first week or two. Just do the best you can! I was in tears the first week of insulin because I thought Bandit was going to die because I couldn't get a drop of blood every time I tried to test. I really wished I could have fast-forwarded to a couple weeks later when I was testing one-handed while on the phone! :-D
 
Larry and Kitties said:
I presently have four kitties on Lantus and never tested three times a day. I did do occasional curves and spot checks.
Click to expand...

The very high remission rate with Lantus is dependent on the combination of a low carb canned diet, and tight regulation via by home testing. You can't follow the tight regulation protocol accurately if you're not collecting the mid-cycle tests. I know that not everyone here practices tight regulation on Lantus, but if your ultimate goal is remission then you do want to follow the protocol and get those tests.

I'm not saying that cats can't go into remission without tight regulation, but it is their best bet. Bandit has gone off insulin twice following the Lantus protocol (he was on Lantus a year the first time around and a month the second time), so I'm a firm believer and advocate.
 
Quick update - Mac is eating again (back to begging though) and has made a significant improvement - fluids did a world of good for him - we've been doing the shots since last Thursday & also the low crab diet - haven't gotten to the home testing yet, just trying to establish a new "normal" (baby was sick all weekend which thru all of us off) - Mac goes in tomorrow for curve testing & addtl/new recommendations for dosage ....
 
Just be aware that often cats test much higher at the vet. The noises and smells and strange animals there can stress out the kitty and stress raises bg levels. So the numbers collected there, under stress, can be higher than the numbers you would see at home. Often vets raise the dose based on those inflated numbers and once the kitty gets home, his levels go down.

This is one of the many reasons we like to home test. We want doses based on real numbers, not ones inflated by stress. I would suggest you get numbers at home asap so you can stay on top of the changes in bg levels.

I know this is overwhelming at first and there seem to be lots of changes at once. But really, hometesting is the most valuable thing you can do to keep your kitty safe and healthy.
 
I sent out 2 kits today...I'm kinda hopeing one of them was for you.
Can we have your name? My name is Lori.
The kit will have you ready-set-go as soon as you open it. Well, as soon as you can pull your kitty away from the nip toy inside. ;-)
Lori
and Tom (GA)
 
I (Phyllis) didn't sign up for a kit - felt it was inappropriate b/c I'm sure there are others out there more needy than my crew .... & holy crow, I took my boy into the vet's office for his BG curve testing & his first number for the morning, w/out insulin, was an 80 ....
 
oh my....this is EXACTLY why you want to test at home. That number at the vets (vet stress) was likely lower....and my best guess is that was not the low number of the day.
hmmmmm,
if you can go out and buy everything you need do so right away.
and i hope the vet reduced dose asap.
 
Didn't give him insulin at all .... & planned to keep testing him throughout the day b/c the vet felt that # was a little suspicious given the super high ones we saw last week ....
 
Medically it should'nt be a surprise...it should be an indication that the dose is too high.
That is what it would mean here if we were testing. To call it a surprise sounds like the vet did'nt really expect the insulin to cut thru the blood glucose!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top