New here with some questions.

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CatsMagoo

Member Since 2014
Hello, my name is Clyde from Sterling Heights, Michigan. Today just a few hours ago we found out that our cat 10 year old male, Kyo (Nicknamed Cats Magoo) has diabetes. We took him to the vet because he was peeing a lot and drinking a lot of water. Aside from that, nothing in his behavior has really changed. He'd been to that vet about a month before this visit for a rather bad ear infection. He was given an antibiotic and steriod shot to reduce the swelling and itchiness in his ears while we were there, and we were sent home with a baytril eardrop mixture and veterinarian grade ear cleaner. After completing his antibiotics we took him back for a follow-up and the vet told us that his ear infection was pretty much cleared up. That week we brought him home we started to notice some strange changes in him. He started drinking a lot of water, and peeing more than usual. It wasn't an alarming amount, but it was enough for us to notice that something was up. Now we didn't think much of it, because he was still eating, still pooping the same amount, still full of energy. About a month later we noticed he lost some weight. When we took him to the vet for his ear infection he was about 13 pounds. He is now about 12 pounds. We also noticed that he had this ravenous hunger, and would beg with the might of a starving dog. Now he's always been a bit of a beggar. He loves chicken, and human food though we try not to feed him too much. He has always loved to eat so we didn't think too much of it other than the fact that he was just looking for attention or a tasty treat.

Well, that aside we do have some questions and concerns. Upon learning that he has diabetes, we immediately brought him home and started researching and educating ourselves. The vet sent us home with a low dose prescription of insulin, and told us to bring him back later in the evening so she could show us how to give him the shots however we're on a very tight budget this month. Going to the vet, we really only had about $200 to spend. The cost of the tests and the visit itself was around $150. We learned that the insulin would cost around $60 and we managed to scrape together enough money. When we went to the pharmacy (CVS), they told us the cost would be $230. We did not have that kind of money. We called the vet back and they suggested we head to Walmart as we could find cheaper prices there. Though we arrived 16 minutes too late and the pharmacy was closed. We decided to reschedule for tomorrow and while we were there we bought some cat food.

Kyo has been eating dry cat food (IAMs ProActive health Adult Indoor Weight Control and Hairball) and he has eaten it his entire life ever since he was a kitten to yesterday. We educated ourselves quickly on the reasons for putting him on a wet food diet. We were under the concept that wet food was not healthy for him, but after doing our research we realized that was not so. We brought home some wet food. Fancy Feast canned Liver and Chicken flavor. We made sure there was no gluten or plant-biproduct in it. And there is about 11% Carbs in it. Not perfect, but it'll have to do as we're still trying to figure out what kind of food we should feed him. Now he loves wet food. I don't know why, but he has always loved canned food and canned tuna when we bought it for him. So he snarfed that down tonight, and we won't have any problems starting him on a wet food diet, in all honesty he hates his dry food.

Now our questions, I'm so sorry for the long intro. Our questions were this. They want to give him insulin, but I'm concerned that after changing his diet, his BG levels will be different. When we took him to the vet, his BG levels were low 400's. The vet also told us to take into account that he was extremely stressed and nervous because he was surrounded by four big dogs in the lobby and he's an indoor boy, he has never seen dogs so up close before. I am afraid that feeding him this new food, will cause his levels to drop to a dangerous point where he will need the insulin. But I am also concerned that if they don't drop to that point, that if we do give him the insulin now and he doesn't need it, he could become needlessly dependent on it. I wanted to start him on his new low carb and high protein diet for a couple days to a week and take him back to the vet for another check to see if his levels changed at all. I am aware that I can monitor his levels from home, but we are still new to this and have yet to pick up a suitable reader, also strips are expensive and on top of everything else we're kind of in financial chaos right now trying to figure out how we're going to approach this and pay for everything. I just wanted to know if it would be too dangerous to start him on the diet and wait and see? Right now I fed him once, and gave him a very small amount of his regular dry food. He ate the canned food and turned his nose up at the dry food. It has been about two hours since I last fed him and he's still normal. He's walking around exploring the house, sitting in the windows, warming his bum by the vents, went for a number two, and generally acting the same no change in his behavior. I've been watching him carefully, seeing if he's lethargic, walking funny, or otherwise showing the danger signs but he isn't.

I also feel slightly paranoid. My kitty has always been healthy and strong and full of energy until we started him on that ear infection medications. I read up about it and it seemed to carry a lot of side-effects. Kidney failure, diabetes, nausea, weight loss, a plethora of side-effects. I can't help but feel like his antibiotics were what made him sick because the moment he finished his prescription was the moment he started drinking a lot and peeing a lot. I wanted to ask the vet that, but I knew they probably wouldn't give me a straight answer. They kept saying they didn't know what caused the diabetes, and even if they did I have a feeling they would still say they don't know because afterall, they are still a business. It's not that I don't trust the vet that we are seeing, I'm just concerned is all that we aren't doing the right thing for Kyo and I really don't want to make him sicker. As my partner keeps telling me, it could be a lot worse and I understand that. I'm grateful that this is manageable and that if we do it right he can live a long healthy normal life. I just really want to know we're making the right decision for him and after researching as much as I can, I'm not sure if starting him on the insulin right away is such a good idea. I also wanted to know is there a possible alternative to insulin? Like pills or something less harsh to help regulate his BG levels?

Thank you for reading and putting up with my massive paragraphs. Our family is deeply distressed because Kyo is the light of our lives and we would hate to lose him.
 
Welcome to FDMB.

Vet stress can raise the glucose 100 to 180 mg/dL.
Inappropriate diet may elevate the glucose 100 mg/dL or more.

Take away those 2 numbers from a number in the 400s and you might find his numbers are low enough to not need insulin or not need it for long. In cats, the pancreas may heal if allowed to rest by providing external insulin. You may want to wait a day or two and test at home to see how the diet change and reduced stress impact his glucose levels.

Steroid shots are notorious for elevating glucose levels, especially in diabetics. As that wears off, the glucose levels may drop.

We encourage home glucose testing with an inexpensive human glucometer such as the WalMart ReliOn Confirm, Confirm Micro, or Prime which are inexpensive and use inexpensive test strips. You'll also need 26-28 gauge lancets to obtain a blood droplet for the test. If you prefer not to shop at WalMart, Americal Diabetest Warehouse offers the generic Arkray USA Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini which are identical to th Confirm series.
 
Hello Clyde,
Let me just say that you're in the right place to get the best info and help for you cat Kyo. Let me offer my experience with my cat Dusty. He started off with the same symptoms as your cat and all diabetic cats. The vet started him on 2 units of Lantus twice a day, I bought a ReliOn Micro BG tester from WalMart, and had already started Dusty on Fancy Feast Chicken Classics so I continued that. Within a week his BG readings were so low I stopped giving him insulin and after a two week trial to make sure he was good go he was declared Off The Juice (OJT). Here we are almost two months later and he's still doing great, still in remission and just getting Fancy Feast while watching his weight.

If you can't afford the insulin right now you can just try some wet low carb food like the Fancy Feast you're currently using and see how he does. If you're feeding any dry food stop, they're pretty much all high carbs and won't help him. If you're NOT giving him insulin right now don't worry about his BGs dropping too low without insulin and low carb food. Remember insulin is what controls his BG and brings it down not up. I would still suggest getting a BG tester like the ReliOn from WalMart, it's pretty cheap as are the test strips, that way you can keep track of the BGs and decide if he still needs insulin or not. A good insulin will definitely help his pancreas heal and start working on it own so try to start that as soon as possible if his BGs don't drop with diet alone.

More people will chime in with advise and keep asking questions! Your kitty will be fine, you can do this! dancing_cat
 
I appreciate the advice and speedy replies BJM and Dusty. My partner and I are feeling much more calm now knowing that his levels won't just suddenly drop.

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what his diet should consist of? What brand of cat food do you all feed your cats? And how many times a day should they be eating?

Thank you for your patience with me as I am new to this and I know my questions are probably something you all hear twenty times a day :oops:
 
I feed my two cats (one diabetic and one not) Fancy Feast pate style or as labeled on the can Classics. Stay away from the sliced, chunky or gravy ones, they're high carb. There's a list on this board that has all the wet foods and their carb %, check those links out. My cats get 5 cans spread out through the day, each meal consists of half a can each.
 
I feed Friskies Pates - Turkey and Giblet, Poultry Platter, and Chicken. I figure most cats won't go hunting beef, nor fish.
 
Welcome to FDMB Clyde and Kyo! :-D
I would just like to chime in that as long as Kyo is not on insulin, his bg is fine if it goes low. Low is where it should be in a non-diabetic kitty. And doing the food change first, before adding insulin is a great idea. That way the body is accustomed to the food and carb change.
A meter and strips would be a great next step. That way you can get used to testing and rewarding. As well it will give you an idea of what is going on with the new food and no insulin. Which you would enter in the Spreadsheet.
During this time, please continue to hang out with us and learn all you can. If Kyo does need to start insulin, you will have some homework under your belt and hopefully it won't be so stressful for you all ;-) :-D
You are in great hands here. The members eat, drink and breath feline diabetes and we have many, many experienced caregivers who just love to help kitties and their beans (that's you!).
 
Welcome Kyo and Clyde!

I feed both of mine mostly the Friskies Special Diet pâtés (turkey and giblets, to be precise). I also add water to their food to keep it from drying out throughout the day as I leave it out for them to graze on. Check out the food chart from catinfo.org for more food options (you want anything less than 8-10% calories from carbs, column C).

Newly diagnosed diabetics are usually starving since their bodies can't process the nutrients properly (hence the rapid weight loss usually noticed in the beginning). It's good to feed them a bit more food than they would otherwise require (some report as much as 50% more). Here's a great discussion on how much and how often to feed that might give you a few more ideas.

And yes, holding off on the insulin for now while you work on the food change and learning how to home-test is a good plan as it can take up to a week or two to see the full impact of a diet change on their BG (Blood Glucose) numbers.
 
Welcoming Clyde and sugardude Kyo to the message board!

Drinking lots, peeing lots, ravenous appetite are all classic signs of diabetes.

Steroid shots can cause transient diabetes. Good likelihood you can get your cat Kyo (aka Magoo) into remission with a good diet and some insulin to support his pancreas to heal.

The Fancy Feast Tender Liver & Chicken pate style is 4% carbs. Fine for a diabetic cat. My sugardude Wink eats this and the other Fancy Feast classic pate style foods all the time. You don't want to feed the Fancy Feast Grilled Liver and Chicken Feast in Gravy, that is 17% carbs. We try for <10% carbs. Stick with the classic pate styles or the flaked flavors of the Fancy Feast and you'll be fine. Many people here feed foods like the Friskies pate style or Wellness grain free. I feed my 3 cats, 4 times a day. Can't free feed because the 2 civies (non-diabetic cats) are Hoovers so I meal feed instead. :lol: :lol:

It's ok to do the diet change first. Did the vet mention ketones? You may want to get urine ketone testing strips from the pharmacy and test his urine daily. You don't want to see DKA.

I also wanted to know is there a possible alternative to insulin? Like pills or something less harsh to help regulate his BG levels?
No. Herbs don't work. Pills have a very low success rate (<30% at 1 year)Pills, like glipizide, don't work and actually end up making the pancreas work harder and damage the pancreas more. Much harsher than insulin. Insulin is very gentle and natural (for example, lantus > 85% success rate) and is the best to support the pancreas and allow it to heal. Your cat Kyo may even be able to heal his pancreas enough to go off insulin and be diet controlled like my Wink.

From the $230 price you quoted, it sounds like your vet prescribed Lantus insulin. Is that correct? Here is an article by DCIN that talks about getting lantus at a lower price. You'll need your vet to rewrite the prescription for the pen, (3 ml mini-vial) instead of the 10 ml vial.

Thank you for your patience with me as I am new to this and I know my questions are probably something you all hear twenty times a day :oops:
No embarrassing questions here. And I hope we keep hearing from new people like you, however many times a day is needed to help you. We were all new at the beginning. Just 'paying it forward.' Please, keep those questions coming.
 
Thanks so much for the food suggestions. We've started Kyo eating Fancy Feast Classics and even just overnight we've seen an incredible change. He isn't peeing as much, and he's gone back to drinking his normal amount of water. He used to be uncomfortable I think. He would sleep on the carpet in the bathroom in front of the tap a lot. But last night he slept in bed with me for hours. He wasn't doing that lately. My partner thinks his urge to pee and drink was keeping him from relaxing fully. His fur feels much smoother, and he overall has a more lively look in his eyes.

We bought a ReliOn tester from Walmart, and after today we'll be keeping track of his levels. We'll take him back after a few days for another check-up and discuss with our vet whether or not he needs insulin :YMSIGH:

Edit: Just saw Deb's post. We appreciated the guide on how to find cheap insulin. We simply could not afford the $230 fee at CVS. And we'll be checking again at Walmart once we get his diet regulated. He will most likely be on a low dosage so I am worried that we'll end up paying so much money for medicine that we might not be using long-term. That helped put my heart at ease, and I think we can work out a way to make this all affordable. The support we've gotten from this message board is more than we expected and could ask for. Things were chaotic and stressful yesterday, but it seems we've worked out a plan and everything seems much less intimidating. Thanks so much FDMB!
 
The 3 best insulins for cats are ProZinc, Lantus, and Levemir in terms of container cost.
However, on a per unit basis, ProZinc is about double the Lantus cost.
 
BJM said:
Steroid shots are notorious for elevating glucose levels, especially in diabetics. As that wears off, the glucose levels may drop.

I also wanted to re-iterate this point: if it were steroid-induced diabetes, then home-testing will also help you see if insulin is even needed after the steroids wear off and with the food change.
 
Some new things have turned up.

This situation is stressful for me and my partner as the only time we can really take Kyo to the vet is the weekends when we're both available. So he has to hold out until the weekends for us to bring him, and that's only if we even have enough money to begin with. I've been staying home with Kyo, making sure he keeps to his diet, and otherwise looking after him while my partner attends his job. It's Monday through Friday so there's hardly any time during the week to schedule a visit unless it's an absolute emergency.

I noticed that Kyo's eyes were bloodshot the other day. I've noticed this once before. The whites of his eyes, were pink/slightly reddish and it would usually go away after an hour or two. His eyes don't seem to be bothering him. He did have a little bit of that black crumble coming out of it, but i wiped it away with a cotton ball and he didn't seem to be bothered by that at all. He's not rubbing his eyes, or blinking frantically so I just thought that maybe he was tired. I wasn't sure if it's something normal, or if it's a serious problem?

It has been about two days since I transitioned Kyo from dry food to wet food. Now earlier he just had a really stinky poo! He doesn't seem to be having trouble going at all, but his poops are more squishy than they were when he was on dry food, which I did kind of expect. He isn't having full blown diarrhea, and he doesn't seem to be in any distress. But I was just wondering if the stinky poos and softer poos are a normal thing when first transitioning your cat from dry to wet food x.x

I also wanted to ask what should I expect from him behavior-wise when transitioning from dry to wet food? I didn't want to panic and mistake a normal transitioning habit for one linked with the diabetes and stress everyone out for no reason lol.

We're picking up his insulin this weekend (just in case he needs it!) and taking him back to the vet to learn how to give him the shots and also test his blood from home. We tried it earlier using the internet as a guide, but we were unsure of how to go about it still and we don't want to hurt him...
 
The diet change can cause some temporary digestive upset and stinky poo is fairly common for a week or two.
 
Okay, thanks for the replies.

I was just making sure. I read a lot of internet cat horror stories about allergic reactions and stomach problems. My partner and I are still trying not to get ahead of ourselves :lol:
 
Probiotics may be helpful in resolving the poo issue - Intelliflora, Forti Flora, or a teaspoon or two of plain yogurt with active cultures are some options.
 
We've had an update with Magoo's situation.

Since he was diagnosed, we have started him on a high protein low carb diet of Fancyfeast canned foods. Fancyfeast classics to be specific. He stopped displaying symptoms of diabetes almost immediately with the diet change and he no longer drinks excessively and is no longer peeing as much as he used to (almost back to normal), he is also starting to gain weight back in the right places. We have decided to hold off on the insulin and changed his diet first to see how it would affect him. We have not had a chance to test his blood-sugar levels at home and are still learning how to do this. Also we have encountered a bit of a problem with the prescription that the vet wrote us..

Our vet prescribed us Lantis and looks to be about 100 units with the vets poor handwriting. The cost of lantis is very high in our area and we do not have enough to afford it. We do not want to spend money on insulin he may never use. We are not sure if we should just take the money and have him revisit the doctor again or if we should buy the Lantis? If we purchase the Lantis we will not have enough money for a vet visits and will be stuck with the insulin that we might not use for him.

Should we get the insulin or should we save the money and bring him back to the vet?

Thanks to everyone on this board for your help1 We could have only made it here with your help.
 
Actually, I'd suggest that you call the vet and have the vet rewrite the prescription for a Lantus Solostar pen. This is like a miniature vial, 3 mL. Then, look at this post by the folks at DCINfor tips on finding someone to sell you a single pen. This article also has a link to the savings card program from the manufacturer, which would be $25 for a single pen.

You'll need to do some calling around in your area, to find a pharmacy that will sell you a single pen.

You use the pen just like you would the larger 10 mL vial, drawing the insulin out with an insulin syringe. No injection of air into the pen. Do not get the pen needle tips. This is because you want to be able to measure the insulin in 0.25 unit increments, which you can not do with the pen needle tips.
 
You should probably start testing as soon as possible. That'll help you decide to wait on the insulin or to get it depending on how his readings look. It's really not that hard to test his BG it just takes a little practice.
 
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