New here with Chianti

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itzj

itzj

Member Since 2014
I am new to these forums with my cat Chianti (yes said like the wine as he was found in a wine cellar 9 years ago). I am currently in the :-| :?: phase having read more than my brain can process since getting his diagnosis yesterday. He was diagnosed with a number of 300 and we have been prescribed lantus and an herbal therapy (we have a holistic vet). He has a follow up appointment Thursday morning.

The complicating challenge for us is that we have 11 indoor cats (most all strays rescued as kittens) who are free fed dry and get wet 2x a day for those who want it. Chianti has only ever eaten tuna for wet in the morning (he rejects everything else) and prefers dry. We got him some Wellness Core chow and are going to work on the wet, but logistically I cannot take the house off of free feeding nor do I think we can put them all on the wellness (they are on blue buffalo now). Chianti predominately eats at the same chow bowl so that bowl is switched to wellness.

The vet just called to check in on him and when I asked if I should run out to get a meter to start testing they said to wait to discuss it at the appointment. But from what I've read on here it isn't good to dose without testing. So now I'm :? My husband is the one who took him in but I will be present at the next appointment.

Any feedback to pull me from this brain overload is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Jenny
 
Well BIG YES on home testing, it helps you know how the insulin is working but further more keeps your kitty safe and saves you some money from having to take them in.

Welcome to FDMB,

Yes, wet is best we advise 10% or less for carbs most here feed fancy feast pates, or friskie pates and at least theyre cheaper with 11 cats :shock:

If dry is a MUST then we suggest one of the lower carb ones..... Young Again Zero carb (5% carbs), EVO cat and kitten (12% carbs), or Stella & chewys freeze dried (1% I THINK) I feed my cats the Young again, a VERY small amount, less than 1/8 c each just to get their crunchies. It is only sold online and it is pricey BUT they eat less of it. They also guarantee it, your cats wont eat it send it back. All in all its better/easier to switch all their diets for many reasons....easier to control Chianti's diabetes and trying to keep food separate.....ohhhh is that fun lol, and help try to prevent the others from gaining a diagnosis.

Hidey gained a diagnosis of diabetes on blue buffalo weight managemnt. I thought I was doing a good thing, put my cats on it ALL of them gained weight, and Hidey became diabetic :cry:


Home testing, you do not need your vets approval, if that was the case I wouldnt do many things Ive done and Hidey wouldnt be in remission and diet controlled! I found tons of helpful people here and an insane wealth of knowledge.

The best thing I've learned about home testing.....would you give your child insulin without knowing if they needed it? Ummmm NO! and I don't have children, my cats ARE my children, I swear their just as expensive lol.

When you change diet it is VERY important to be home testing because diet can drastically drop bg.

We are here for any questions and support! We were all where you are right now, and we help each other :-D
 
Only 11? Got 16 here and 3 are diabetic. Everyone eats what the diabetics do just old fashioned Friskies Pate. Out of 3 diabetics 2 are in remission and last hold out is trying hard. They all did it on the same diet of Friskies.

I don't free feed but do feed 4 times a day because I'm here and cater to my overlords wishes lol

One week supply of kitty food at my house. Thought you could use a laugh.

Oh a tip...talk to your local farm feed store if you have one. Many will give you a deal for buying in bulk. Mine if I buy 4 cases I get the 5th free.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 

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Hi and welcome to FDMB.

I have 7 indoor cats and they are all fed Friskies canned food. I feed mine twice a day. Most of them were converted from free feeding dry food eaters to canned food. Even though I leave the bowls out all day for any that do not finish their food, most of the bowls are emptied at their meal time. I have one that believes that no bowl should have any remaining food (the pig :lol: ) so the rest have learned to eat it while it is available.
 
Sorry about Chianti's diagnosis, but you are in the right place for help.

1. Dry food addict. My diabetic cat wouldn't eat ANY wet food. Ever. (We used dry vet prescription kidney food - she also had kidney disease). The fact that Chianti will eat tuna probably means you could teach him to eat other flavors of wet - cats can't live on fish alone, much to their chagrin. As others mentioned, there are cheap foods that work well for diabetics. Wellness CORE is grain free, but I don't know it's carb content. Under 10% is what you are looking for.

2. When you start insulin, home-testing is VERY important. You test before they get insulin to make sure it's safe to give insulin. You do not need the vet's permission to do it, but having a vet who is on-board with testing can make your life so much easier.

3. Breathe. Then read some more.

Good luck!
 
Food changes are less likely to result in GI upsets - nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea - if done gradually, replacing about 20-25% old food with new food each day.

A way to gradually expand the flavors eaten is to slowly mix in small amounts of other foods. You might try adding 1 teaspoon of a different flavor and mixing well, then offering the usual portion. Rotate through several flavors in a week, then up it to 2 teaspoons of different food, and so on. You may find that freezing the unused new food into ice cube amounts allows you to save what you don't use when starting out.

I'm feeding 14 cats with Friskies pates; I put the food down twice a day and it is usually finished by the next meal.
 
Thank you for the welcome. I'm at least happy to not be the only owner of a million cats.

So we went to the vet this morning. He was at 314 today on their alphatrack (300 on Monday) and his weight was down 2 ozs so she wants us to increase to 2 units. We talked about us home testing and she was fine with it thankfully. So I'm to report in after a few days on the new dose. After we get him stable for 2 weeks she'll run more in office bloodwork, a fructosamine and to check on his kidneys and liver. And at some point in there she'll have me run a curve. So it mostly was a good visit, but I had to ask her to speak technically to me and not dumb it down.

I went and got some of the acceptable fancy feasts that are similar in texture to tuna. He rejected it at first, but if I put a little of the tuna on top he eats some of the fancy feast too. So I will work on the coaxing and seeing if slowly changing the ratio will work.

One thing I have a question on is that the vet said most diabetic cats live 2 years after diagnosis. Is this a realistic number? Other things I'm reading say they can have a normal lifespan if it is under control.

So now I have to get us on track with the testing. My husband is bringing home a relion. I am nervous about it going well, though he didn't fight for the blood draw at the vet in his leg.

I am back and forth between being terrified and overwhelmed and feeling like ok we just have to do this. I think right now I am most afraid of a hypo episode.
 
Hello and Welcome to the Club,

First off, based upon my experience,2u is too much for a kitty with BG of 300. See my SS for Samantha. She was averaging 350 before I started and was 299 the morning I started, she weighed 14.9 lbs. I gave her 1 u and in 2 days she was oh so close to hypo. I have since reduced to .5 and am in the middle of a 2nd skip/no shot period to see if she can keep her numbers down.

You are correct to fear the hypo range. Thus, the reason for my comment above. You have the tools to test and be sure you are safe.

IMHO, skip the fructosamine test. That only tells the average over a couple weeks. Your testing at home with provide all the numbers the vet needs. My vet said the option to not home test was fructosamine test. I saw that it was just not enough for my Jack and did the at home testing for everything including curves.

I assume you had blood work done already. Was it ok? I mean other than the high BG? Not sure why they want to run blood work again but neither here nor there, I feel that a fructosamine is not necessary. Unless they do not believe your numbers.

The testing will be a piece of cake once you get through the initial phase. I never thought I could do that let alone give the shot. But I am living proof that it can be done. A little tired maybe, but still alive and kicking.

I also adopted the "we have to do this" attitude. It did help. I had to master this for my kitty.

Remember warm the ears, use a rice sock, warm moist paper towel or, as I do, a heat pack from a thermal wrap. If you do not warm the ear, the blood flow will be reduced and you will really wish you had warmed the ear.

I look forward to hearing about your first test. Trust me, we have all been in your shoes and are here to tell you that it just ain't that bad.

You are NOT alone!

All the Best!
Kevin
 
itzj said:
...Other things I'm reading say they can have a normal lifespan if it is under control....
Click to expand...

Well-controlled diabetic cats can live a normal lifespan.
 
Kevin thank you for such a helpful response.

I took his first bg level tonight. It was an hour post shot because we got delayed outside (we got goats 2 weeks ago and are new to all of it) so I couldn't get a preshot number. On the relion meter he was 232. It was easier than I thought it would be. I got a lot more blood than I needed using the 30 gauge so I think I might get the 33 tomorrow to see if I still get good blood so that he'll notice it less. He jumped a little when I pricked him, I don't know if from pain or irritation. I don't know if my husband will do will do a test in the morning, he is afraid of making Chianti hate him from the insulin and giving the herbs our vet also has him on. Chianti jumped less with the shot tonight as we switched to giving it in his side since he seemed annoyed with us messing with his scruff.

I think I need to read a lot more on here tonight. I have no idea what numbers I am working towards, what the stepping down looks like. Our vet is really kind and clearly cares a lot, but I felt like I already knew more than she did and came across that way. But I know that clearly I don't, so I'm just confused. My husband said his other blood work was good. I will call and see if I can get a copy of the numbers. I think she wants to keep making sure that everything else is ok. I asked if she wanted me to test his urine too and she said there wasn't much point until we get the bg under control. I want to make sure I keep her on my side. I think she just hasn't had an owner willing to do all of this before.

Thank you again so much for your help. I will take a look at your ss and read some more as soon as I get my human babies to sleep. :smile:
 
See my signature link Glucometer Notes to help you understand the readings.
 
Hello again,

Do you have the Neosporin with pain relief (ointment NOT cream). It helps the blood bead and provides healing.

I use both 28 and 30 gauge. The 28's came with the AlphaTrak and the 30's from the ReliOn. Jack only had 28's. With Samantha, I used the 30's but at first didn't produce enough blood. I had to do a few double and a couple triple pokes which I was not keen on. Now that her ears are accustomed to it, and I warm them, the 30's work fine.

You may have gotten more blood because you hit the vein. The sweet spot is between the vein and the outer edge of the ear. Not an easy target with the lancing device but you will get the hang of it. The Neosporin helps heal.

I want to make sure I keep her on my side. I think she just hasn't had an owner willing to do all of this before.
Click to expand...

I agree with both statements. A Vet has to treat many different animals with a wide variety of aliments. I would like, but cannot expect, that the Vet is going to be an expert on Diabetes. When the Vet and my wife thought I was testing too much. I knew then and there, that I was going to have to go it alone. Well, with the people here, I NEVER felt like I was alone.

The Vet said that she would be happy is Jack was between 175 and 225. Knowing what I know now, that is still too high. Had I not found this group, not tested as much and not follow the TR protocol, we would not be where we are today. Jack is in his 19th day of remission. An AMBG of 101 on an AlphaTrak no less.

As far as Hubby not wanting Chianti to hate him. Clearly understood. I told Jack and Samantha that this is something we HAVE to do, there is NO choice and I love you too much to NOT do it.

With human babies around, which I have heard grow up and may do things that you would prefer they didn't, you may have to make decisions that will not necessarily endear them to you.

I would rather have my child hate me than for them to make a bad life altering decision if I could have helped prevent with a harsh dose of reality!

All the best!
Kevin
 
Checking in for the morning. I will start a thread over in the lantus support in the next few days. The morning didn't go so well. I convinced my husband that he needed to test Chianti before dosing him. He had trouble and had to prick twice with the second being too hard which pissed Chianti off royally. The number was 273 (relion). But then Chianti decided that there was no way he was getting the shot. There was scratching and biting :-| and I got up to help him whereas all the other mornings he did it alone. The first shot ended as a fur shot so then we just gave a half unit assuming some of the first went in. I don't know if he is just starting to get angry about the pricking or if he is starting to feel a little better because of the insulin and is now feisty. I'm definitely no stranger to disappointing my children (as is evidenced by my sassy 6 year old), it feels a little harder with one who wants to literally claw my face off as the solution. :lol:

On another note, I wish the vet just used a human meter because I feel a little better on the relion numbers but then that darn conversion makes the numbers so not great.

I will look at an ointment. We had moved away from petroleum based products so I've been using a homemade salve of coconut oil and essential oils. I will have to mix up a cat safe one using only lavender assuming the coconut oil won't throw the numbers off in any way.

How have you handled your vet now that you are working towards a goal that is better than what vet had set? I felt like I had to be very careful of what I said so that she wouldn't think I was google doctoring. I mentioned I had found an online support group and her first question was if it was run by vets. I back tracked quickly because even though she is a holistic vet, and clearly into alternative medicine along with allopathic, I could sense that she may feel that a owner can't be but so knowledgable.

Ok I have written too much as I usually do. I appreciate the help. I hope that once I am more comfortable that I can repay this board by helping others when they start this journey.
 
To keep Chianti from hating you, be sure to give a diabetic safe treat after testing, even if you don't get any blood. He will learn to associate testing with treats. Also, after a while the ear "learns" to bleed easier and it won't be so hard. Cats will also pick up on your anxiety over the testing and shot, so try to approach him with confidence. You can also shoot the insulin while Chianti is eating and distracted.

So find a spot (with good light), have everything there ready to go and do it quickly with authority. I would put a towel on the kitchen counter, set out all the paraphernalia (including putting the test strip a little into the meter) before even getting Maggie. I always used a folded up paper towel half behind the ear so I would have something firm to press against. I used a very small smear of neosporin to help the blood bead up. I would then use the paper towel to put a little pressure on the site after the test to stop the bleeding and to help prevent bruising. There were times I'd test Maggie while she sleeping. She'd barely open an eye!

As for you vet, I agree with Thebudster77. Vets have to know enough to treat all ailments for all animals. My vet treats farm animals as well as small animals. If your vet is willing to learn with you, you will do fine. I would print pages from this website and show her the info. She didn't take it at face value, but would use it as a base for research into whatever it was about. I once remarked at how others here at FDMB complain of their vets saying "it's my way or the highway". My vet said that she doesn't know everything and is always happy to learn something new. A few times I had to tell her I wasn't comfortable doing something or another and why. She might not agree, but would work WITH me.
 
Hi there,

It is interesting that you ask about my Vet today. She just called me less than an hour ago, out the blue, to ask how Jack and Samantha were doing. I almost fell off my chair but also came to realize that she cares about her patients.

When I told her that Jack was in day 19 of remission, I think she almost fell off her chair. Then when I told her that Samantha was on her 2nd trial, day 4 of no insulin after only 3 weeks, I swear I heard a thud!

I wrote her a nice long email telling her about FDMB with some links and showed her the spreadsheet that we fill out. Will see how she takes it, I told here to tell her to please recommend it to her patients and Lynne (the tech at the vet who has a sugar kitty) about it. All I can do is spread the word, what she does with it... well might just make her a better vet.

Whatever you use on the ear is really your preference. The main worry for me was infection. Not so much the pain relief as I have poked myself with the lancet and the needle and never felt either so I really do not think they feel it. They might jump at the sound of the lancet device or so I have heard and I would understand that.

One thing about the lancet device if that is what you are using. There is a depth setting on it. 5 lines. I have always used the 4th longest line and seems to work fine for me.

Another thing that I have found it that backing the ear with something firm helps. I use a rubber finger tip (used for shuffling through papers, like for an accountant. Sold at Staples). It gives me something firm to the back the ear between it and the lancet device. Added bonus is, I don't prick my finger too...lol

Hope you have better luck with the shot. My first one I was 90% sure I didn't get it, the 2nd, 50/50. I decided to shave a spot on Jack so I could ensure I got the remaining ones in for sure. Haven't had a fur shot since.

Take care.
Kevin
 
Debby I definitely have a weirdo of a cat. He doesn't like treats. And he likes a couple quick pets when you first feed him, but if you touch him any longer he stops, gives an irritated look and waits for you to leave. If you don't then he walks off. I'm just going to have to entice with attention I guess.

So far I'm just hand doing the lancet. I'm a little worried he'll hate the click. How deep is the lancet actually supposed to go? Just a prick right?

This experience is so humbling. One minute I feel like I can do this and then Chianti decides that if he's going down, I'm most definitely getting dragged through the mud too.
 
Hi there,

Jack did not like any of the freeze dried treats (Pure Bites) I bought. He now eats the salmon and chicken ones. I did use tuna in water as a treat for a while. Maybe Chianti will like it.

Not sure I could do the hand lancet very well, and if you take the lancet device and see how far it goes, I am at a loss of what to use it on that you could tell how far it came out as it is very quick.

If you are not successful on the hand lancet, I would recommend that you try to device. Click or not, you will need blood to test and NOT your own..

When I try to clip Samantha's nails (double pawed with very dangerous dew claw) I feel like she is saying the same thing to me. Ok Dad, if you insist on this nonsense, your going home with proof you tried something foolish!

Humbling, very much so. You will get the hang of it no matter how you do the test. Of that I am sure. Persistence pays off. .

Not sure what method you are holding or attempting to hold your kitty with. The knee hold might work. Kneeling, Head out and kitty between your thighs and hold. With my left hand with the rubber finger on it I cross my arm over kitties head/neck (keeps the head down) and then finger under the ear with finger pointing to the base of the ear. I then take the lancet device and press the ear firmly between it and my finger and then click.

Jack never gave me so much as a boo when I did it. Poor thing he was very sick.

Samantha was great when I would catch her napping on the bed. She never moved. On the floor she was a little less patient and at first squirmed. But now and like this morning, I warmed the sock and got my devices at the ready. She headed for the hallway (better light) and just laid down. I was surprised but as she may have figured out, there is just no negotiating with Dad these days and I am hungry and I will get fed right after this.

All the best!
Kevin
 
288 relion this morning. I want to test him more but when he was sitting in the sun this morning it was very evident that he has some blood pooled in his ears from the testing so I might only do preshot testing today to try to let it resolve a little. The vet wanted us to jump to 2 units and that seems too much. I think I might try to get a test tomorrow at 6+ and then maybe increase his Monday morning dose up .25-.5 units more and see what that does. I hope I'm not hurting him by going too slowly. The vet didn't seem concerned at all about jumping an entire unit.

How much control is there with the lancet device? That area on his ear is so teeny tiny, I have trouble hitting it even with just the lancet, but I think I'm a little too slow. He's got like 2 seconds of tolerating me messing with his ear and then resistance kicks in.
 
itzj said:
288 relion this morning. I want to test him more but when he was sitting in the sun this morning it was very evident that he has some blood pooled in his ears from the testing so I might only do preshot testing today to try to let it resolve a little. The vet wanted us to jump to 2 units and that seems too much. I think I might try to get a test tomorrow at 6+ and then maybe increase his Monday morning dose up .25-.5 units more and see what that does. I hope I'm not hurting him by going too slowly. The vet didn't seem concerned at all about jumping an entire unit.

How much control is there with the lancet device? That area on his ear is so teeny tiny, I have trouble hitting it even with just the lancet, but I think I'm a little too slow. He's got like 2 seconds of tolerating me messing with his ear and then resistance kicks in.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about the pooled blood it dissipates very quickly. The first weekend I decided to try a BG curve and tested my cat every two hours throughout the day. At this point I was averaging about three hits before I got enough blood and remi looked like he had been in the worst fight of his life. But he took it like a champ. I pointed out his ears to the vet when I went in on the Monday and he said he had never seen ears like it :lol: but said they would heal just fine. And they did. The bruising goes in a day or two and after only two weeks I show him his treat tube and he starts to purr and jumps in his testing spot. Just try to keep calm when you do it. I've read a few people suggesting that you sing to your cat. I don't sing as I think that might scare him ;-) but I do give him lots of love and reassurance.

I also showed my vet this website and he was very impressed with the level of knowledge and support and is going to recommend the spreadsheet to his other diabetic clients.
 
I concur with BJM.

I had blood pools with Samantha (but not Jack). I guess maybe because has bigger ears ? as I was using a 30 gauge lancet for her and 28 for him.

I have found that direct pressure, I use a paper towel for 20 seconds, eliminated them almost entirely.
 
He is now taking the insulin much better. Ear testing is still hit or miss, we are trying to get the pre shot testing to go smoothly before adding in a bunch of mid testing, especially since I am not good at it but dh is and he is at work and can't do the mid ones except on the weekend.

His morning pre shots have been in the 280-300 range on relion. His evenings are around 270. We decided to increase to 1.5 units which last night gave us a nice 240, the lowest we've gotten since we started testing the pre shots. But this morning dh got a 495 followed by a HI which he has never gotten even near to, even for his diagnosis numbers. Dh assumed the meter was wonky and just gave him dose. He is acting fine, perky and wanted to play. Was that bounce? Was the meter just dumb? I'm going to look at getting a backup one and I requested control solution.

I swear every time I have started to feel like we are getting on track with how we'll be managing this, something goes awry and then I feel back to having zero clue what we are doing here. I just want to get him in a safe zone so I at least know that I'm not doing more harm to him. I have no idea what I'm doing here. :shock:
 
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