new here, w/newly diagnosed cat

[Emily]

Hi All,

Great to find this. It is a little daunting, and I hope I am posting in the right place. My beloved 10 year old cat Prince, who we adopted 2 years ago, was just diagnosed with diabetes. Here is background info: After putting him on a diet to lose weight, I noticed that he seemed much too skinny rather quickly. His attitude and appetite was fine, but then all of a sudden he stopped eating. I brought him to the vet right away but the visit was inconclusive. A few days later, he got worse, and I rushed him to the hospital. About $3,000 later, he was diagnosed with hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease), liver inflammation, and diabetes. They believed that the liver inflammation was caused by either hepatitis or a bacterial infection. That, in turn, caused the fatty liver. They are not sure where the diabetes falls in with the rest of this. After 2 nights in the hospital, he was able to come home with Clavamox, a liver supplement, tumil-k, b-12 shots, an appetite stimulant, and his insulin. The main priority was to get him to eat, which was very difficult at first. Finally, he is eating again. I had to first syringe-feed him, hand-feed him, and then bribe him with junk food (pureed Fancy Feast). He gets about a half can of wet food in the morning and evening, 1/2 hr before his insulin. The vet told me to leave dry food out for him in case he starts to get a bit hypoglycemic. He is currently up to 2.5 units of insulin a day and still in the 400-500 range (I bought an alpha-trak and monitor his bc at home). I guess this is what I am struggling with: his diet. The vet wants me to give him all this prescribed food which doesn't look particularly high quality. I tended to avoid foods with by-products and fillers in the past. Also, is a 1/2 can in the am and pm with free-feed dry food ok? Or should I only do wet food? Is there a brand that seems better? The last thing is that I have 3 other cats to keep an eye on, so that is a factor in all of this as well. I am sorry this is so long, I am just looking for advice! Any is appreciated! I love my cats so much and just want to do the right thing for them. So far, this has been so hard and I just want him to get better Thanks again, Emily

 

[Squeaky and KT (GA)]

Hi Emily and extra sweet Prince! You've already been thru a lot!

Shuck the dry food...if it's that expensive vet stuff, take it back. Dry food is NOT good for a cat! You're headed the right way by changing to all wet food! GOOD JOB ALREADY!

Many of us feed the Friskies pate's and the Fancy Feast 'Classics' - the gravy foods are high in carbs so stay with the pates. Using dry to avoid a hypo is old school training - the dry will stay in their system for many hours and won't give immediate glucose delivery if he needs it. Our boyz free-feed all but the last 2 hours before shot - that way I get a 'real' test number to know if it's safe to shoot, not one influenced by food.

What kind of insulin is he on?

You landed in the absolute BEST place to help ALL of you!!! Welcome again and BIG HUGE HUG!

 

[Larry and Kitties]

You said "He is currently up to 2.5 units of insulin a day". Very few cats get by with only one shot a day. Almost all requires two shots a day, about 12 hours apart.
Also, as KT asked, what insulin are you using?

And welcome

 

[JenM]

If I were to leave dry food out for my cat "in case of a hypo event"... he'd be in the 400 range too. He LOVES dry food. It was quite the process converting him to wet... but he'd still gobble up a bowl of dry if given the chance. Unfortunately it seems that many vets are NOT very well versed in feline diabetes and IMO, far too many vets are brainwashed by Science Diet and their prescription foods. Mine also wanted me to feed dry, prescription food - like you, I was concerned about the quality and thanks to the help I found on this board, was able to find a food that worked AND that I was comfortable with.

 

[Emily]

Prince is on Lantus insulin. I meant to say that he gets 2.5 units of insulin twice a day-once at 8am and once at 8pm.

It seems like I've made a bunch of mistakes w/ his food. I didn't realize that cats could get enough calories just from wet food. Although they all love their wet food, they love the dry food even more. I should just get rid of it completely? Prince loves the Wellness brand and the other cats eat Blue Buffalo grain free. If I get rid of the dry food, is a 3.5 oz can of wet food 2x a day enough? It doesn't seem like a lot of food. I have been trying to transfer Prince over from the Fancy Feast to the cans the vet recommended-specifically Hill's Prescription Diet W/D, Purina Veterinary Diets Diabetes Management, and Iams Intestinal Plus. Thoughts about those? In the past I thought those brands were all just promoted through marketing and vets recommended them because of some sort of monetary benefit. If those are the best for him, though, I would definitely continue them.

Squeaky and KT, it is funny that you said avoid the Fancy Feast with gravy because those are the ones he likes best! :/ He will eat others, though, if I mash them up and add some warm water. Are there any brands that are more "natural" that are recommended?

I felt like I was doing such a good job feeding them Blue Buffalo but now it seems like I just contributed to the problem. For a while I considered making their own food from recipes in the book "The Natural Cat" by Anita Frazier but my vet recommended against it and said it was risky.

I'll limit my post for now even though I have so many more questions. Thank you already for your help!! Princey really is one of the sweetest cats. He is like a little puppy and loves to give kisses. I'll have to figure out how to post a picture!

 

[Squeaky and KT (GA)]

Hi again Emily!

You pegged it right on those 'vet' foods...my vet tried to convince me to feed Hill's 'Diabetic' dry. When I asked him why I would even consider giving a diabetic something with 28% carbs, his answer was along the lines of "It's not the carbs, it's the SCIENCE behind it which includes complex carbs"....hummm, cat's can't use 'complex carbs'. We just agreed to disagree because I will NOT feed either one of my sugarboyz that stuff! No need to spend that kind of money for food that's not any better than many cheaper ones out there.

I know the 'no gravy' thing stinks - KT just LOVES his gravy foods but they send him soaring to the moon. Adding warm water to the pate's works wonderfully!

Here's a link to Dr. Lisa's food charts which include the carb counts. Most of the vet foods are toward the bottom:

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

HUGS!!!
Lyresa

 

[sophie]

Welcome Emily!

Ask all the questions you have! The only 'too many' questions are the ones you do not ask.

Best wishes,
Sophie

 

[Deb & Wink]

Hi Emily and sugardude Prince and welcome to the message board.

I have been trying to transfer Prince over from the Fancy Feast to the cans the vet recommended-specifically Hill's Prescription Diet W/D, Purina Veterinary Diets Diabetes Management, and Iams Intestinal Plus. Thoughts about those? In the past I thought those brands were all just promoted through marketing and vets recommended them because of some sort of monetary benefit.

No, they are not best for your cat and yes vets do get a fee from the pet food manufacturers for each prescription they write for these types of foods. They also make money selling these foods at their vet clinics at a premium price.

I have a very low opinion of the Hill's W/d diabetic cat food. It was what the vet recommended for my Wink and it's what kept him in high numbers and unregulated. Once I switched him to the Fancy Feast classic pates, his BG (blood glucose ) levels went down and he went OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice) fairly quickly. He was a dry food addict, so it took me weeks to convince him that the wet food was edible.

Although they all love their wet food, they love the dry food even more. I should just get rid of it completely? Prince loves the Wellness brand and the other cats eat Blue Buffalo grain free. If I get rid of the dry food, is a 3.5 oz can of wet food 2x a day enough?

Yes, getting rid of the dry food completely can benefit all your cats. I switched all 3 of mine a year ago to all canned food and their coats are so silky and soft and shiny now and they seem healthier. The Wellness grain free foods are good for diabetic cats, nice and low carb.

Best way to check to see if you are feeding enough food, is to weigh your cats regularly. Mine get fed a bit more than 0.5 oz per pound of body weight. Others feed their cats closer to 1 oz per pound of body weight. ECID (Every Cat is Different). Find what works for your cats.

 

[BJM]

My cats eat about 0.5 to 1.0 ounces of food per pound of weight total, divided into 2 feedings (folks were missing that part of my statement).

I feed Friskies pates to the 15 cats at my place - 4 of the 13 oz cans, twice a day.

 

[lmummaw]

Welcome Emily and Prince!! I found this website a few weeks ago. Everybody has been so helpful. My kitty Baby was diagnosed with diabetes at a yearly vet visit and check up. She is 13 and had lost weight and was not herself. Her BG levels were over 500 the first two tests at the vet. They sold me the DM canned food and she wouldn't eat it. Thankfully I found this site with a wealth of information on it. I stopped dry foods completely and fed her Friskies pate along with a dozen other cats. I do have a small container of dry food for my one cat of urinary tract food where I can monitor who is going to eat out of it. I put it away when I am not in that room. He has never liked canned food. He has actually started eating a little canned food since I am free feeding canned food to that group of cats. Her third reading was 355 and at her checkup Monday at the vets she was down to 98. My vet asked if I was feeding her the prescription food and I said No, I am feeding her Friskies canned and he said well it appears to be working, keep it up. I'm feeding 3 to 4 cans of 5.5 ounce Friskies at least 4 times a day sometimes 5 times if Baby tells me she hasn't had enough to eat. At this point no insulin has been needed although I bought the meter and the rest of the stuff. I want to keep on top of it. My furbabies have been content with the new diet of canned food. Hope this helps to see that you found the right place.

 

[Mel and Oreo]

Hi Emily and Prince,

My vet also sold me the Royal Canin diabetic wet and dry. I quit the dry and took it back for a refund. When all the great cat lovers on this site said stop the wet as well, because of high carbs, I stopped it. I was doing a combo of FF pate and the Roayal canin. I stopped the royal canin and replaced it with Evo and two to three days later my Oreo is on his way to remission. No insulin now for 8.5 days and in the normal range. We started insulin on December 21, 2013.
This site and all of it's wonderful people are the reason Oreo is doing so well. I still need to take the Royal canin wet food back. I feel a bit stressed taking it back. I am not sure why, but my husband said just go do it, it didn't help our cat and they have the guarantee. I am sure my vet means well, but I need to take charge and not feel intimidated. The people on this site gave me the confidence to give Oreo his injections, complete a blood glucose curve, test blood glucose and have hope that my Oreo could be his happy self again. I hope your Prince will be just as happy and my goal is to see Oreo playing in my flower bed this summer.

Mel and oreo

 

[KPassa]

For a while I considered making their own food from recipes in the book "The Natural Cat" by Anita Frazier but my vet recommended against it and said it was risky.

You can definitely make your own cat food and it's the healthiest for our cats because it comes closest to their natural diet in the wild. You can check out catinfo.org for more information on feline nutrition as well as a section on making your own cat food. As Lyresa already mentioned, that website also contains a food chart of the nutritional information from most commercial canned foods. For our diabetics, you want anything in the first column C to be less than 8-10% calories from carbs (the lower the better).

I still need to take the Royal canin wet food back. I feel a bit stressed taking it back. I am not sure why, but my husband said just go do it, it didn't help our cat and they have the guarantee. I am sure my vet means well, but I need to take charge and not feel intimidated.

Just tell the vet that Oreo stopped eating it, which is often the case with cats once the novelty of new food wears off. Besides, you don't want Royal Canin getting credit for Oreo going OTJ, now do you? ;-) :lol:

 

[Emily]

This has been SO helpful already. I feel so much less alone in this, and a lot more hopeful. I think my first step is to weigh all of my cats and figure out how much wet food each one needs. They vary widely-my only girl, Phoebe, is a little peanut and is very finicky. Andre is pretty balanced and seems to eat only what he needs, but he is the boss and will push the others away to eat their food! Princey, of course, is my poor baby that I am trying to nurse back to health. I also have a geriatric cat, Spockers, who I rescued last year. He seems to like everything!

I also need to figure out what kind of wet food to feed. Today I tried the Whole Paws brand beef and chicken wet food, which Prince and Phoebe really liked. It says "grain free." Does anyone have thoughts about this kind? I am still a little confused as to how to read the labels. It is not clear to me how many calories, carbs, etc. is in each. I don't know what to aim for. I'll keep looking at the resources but if anyone has any "quick tips," it would be greatly appreciated.

The other thing is that Prince has had an upset stomach and had a lot of diarrhea. He has always had a sensitive stomach and my husband keeps saying he thinks he might have irritable bowel syndrome. The vet seems to want to focus mostly on the hepatic lipidosis and diabetes though. It has been several days of diarrhea, so I am starting to get concerned, although he seems to be getting better in general. It could just be all of the different kinds of new food, I guess. When I first brought him home, it took so long to get him used to the food we had here. He had a lot of diarrhea back then, too. My poor Princey-cat

 

[JenM]

If I get rid of the dry food, is a 3.5 oz can of wet food 2x a day enough? It doesn't seem like a lot of food.

I thought the same thing when switching my cats off of dry food. I now feed Wellness myself, and each cat gets about 6oz/day of it (with 4 cats I go through 2 large 12oz cans daily) - they're all roughly 12lb, or should be... some were heavier but needed to go on diets. The exception is the kitten that probably weighs half what they do, but given his high energy level, he gets the same amount of food. My regular cats get two meals of 1/4 can each and my sugardude gets 4 meals of 1/8 can each, some via a timed feeder. That said, every cat has different requirements for how much they eat, just like humans. I dont measure mine exactly, but I do give the "smaller quarters" to my fatter cats. I do watch their weights and make adjustments as needed. Currently, I'm finding my sugardude to be getting a bit pudgy. First step is making sure he isn't eating everyone else's leftovers, which he tends to do. So I'm supervising eating or separating him from "the herd" at feeding time. If he continues putting on any more weight, I'll have to look at feeding a bit less.

With wet food, THEY seem to think I'm trying to starve them (though they kinda thought that with dry food too). But based on their weights, healthy bodies and coats, I know they're getting what they need. It makes sense that they'd eat a bit less wet food, considering all the fillers that tend to be in dry food. When they can actually process the entire content of what they're eating, they dont need as much.

Not sure where you're located, but it may be in your best interest to find a source for the large cans of Wellness if that's what you intend to stick with. Around here, the 3.5oz cans are $1.99 and the 12oz cans are $2.79... however I get the large cans on Amazon via monthly subscription and pay just over $2.00 per can! Considering I'm feeding 4 cats and going through 60 cans per month... this is saving me a good chunk of change! Even without doing the subscription (there's a 5 item minimum to get the extra 15% discount I think), it was still a bit cheaper than my local stores. Other online retailers also offer more competitive rates (and sometimes great sales, like 25% off first order, etc) so it's definitely worth it to shop around!

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

Hi and welcome! It's late and I just happened on your post and wanted to wish you best of luck. You are in a good place. I just want to say that the information cat food manufacturers are required to put on the labels about the "nutrient content" of their foods cannot be used to figure out what the percentage of carbohydrates is. For that the place to go is Dr. Lisa Pierson's lists in http://www.catinfo.org/ (someone has given you this link already). So don't worry too much about reading labels. Read them for the ingredients. If the no. 1 ingredient is a meat, that is important. Dr. Lisa's chapter on feline nutrition in catinfo.org is excellent. Not all of the foods are in Dr. Lisa's lists, but most of the popular ones are. Rusty does well on Wellness. He's a long-term diabetic (since at least 2008).

Read all that you can! Feline Diabetes is complex, but as the days and weeks go by and you ask questions here and get answers, it will all eventually fall into place.

Ella & Rusty

 

[Emily]

Thank you, everyone!!!

Any opinions on Halo Spot's Pate for Cats Grain-Free Ground Chicken?

 

[Emily]

Uh-oh, another question. I have been reading a lot of other posts regarding BG curves, testing, and shooting at different times. I am starting to worry, though, that I am not doing what I need to be doing. I have taken 1 BG curve that my vet requested, but as far as testing, it has just been random times I was worried he wasn't feeling well. So, my question is: when should I be testing? Prince gets insulin at 8 am and 8 pm everyday, and I stick completely to that schedule. I was feeding him at 7am and 7pm for a while when he wasn't thrilled about eating. Now that his appetite is back, he eats as early as 6:30, or as late as 7:30, depending on when he comes to me saying he is hungry How can I start tracking his levels appropriately and to the best of my ability? When is the best time to test, etc. Thank you again!! Sorry for all the random questions! Emily and Princey-cat

 

[Emily]

Rusty does well on Wellness. He's a long-term diabetic (since at least 2008).

Wow! I am happy to hear that a cat can live long-term despite having diabetes. I will do anything to keep my Prince around happy and healthy! Thank you for your tips

 

[BJM]

Just a note: grain free does NOT mean low carb. Carbohydrate may be found in beets, potatoes, carrots, peas, beans, lentils, and fruits, all of which are cheaper to put in than meat.

Testing:
1) Always test before giving insulin to make sure it is safe.
For now, your no shot level is 200 mg/dL on a human glucometer (230 for pet-specific); this will lower as you collect data around the middle of the cycle to know how low he is going.

2) Mid-cycle tests between shots - whenever possible, test around the nadir (lowest glucose level between shots) for your insulin, to see how low he's going. For Lantus, this often falls between +5 to +7 hours after the shot. Some folks do this on weekends or set a clock for the middle of the night to get this test done as it helps determine dose adjustments. This number should be at or above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer (80 mg/dL for pet-specific).

3) a before bed test is helpful in determining if you need to break out some higher carb food and steer the glucose level or go to bed with some peace of mind. Steering means giving 1-2 teaspoons of high carb gravy, waiting 30 minutes, and re-testing (repeating as needed) to make sure the glucose stays above 50 mg/dL.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Emily,

The Halo Spot's Pate Chicken is 4% carbs according to the Food Chart by Dr. Lisa Pierson. So yes, that's a good food for Prince. Does he like it?

If you would please put some information into your signature, that would help us to help you better. Something like this.

Emily and Prince (male, x yrs old) & 3 kitty roomies (Phoebe, Andre & Spockers)
Lantus and Alphatrak meter
trying various low carb canned foods to see what he likes
any complicating medical conditions such as the Hepatic Lipidosis.

You would go to the User Control Panel, Profile tab, Edit Signature and add this block of text. It's optional to do this but it does help us to have all this type of information at the end of each post. Having it in your signature, will put it in all your posts, retroactively. Be sure to make the font size for the Alphatrak be Large so it stands out. Most of us use human meters for testing, so knowing that you are using a pet meter will help us to keep Prince safe when he gets into those lower BG numbers.

 

[JenM]

I was feeding him at 7am and 7pm for a while when he wasn't thrilled about eating. Now that his appetite is back, he eats as early as 6:30, or as late as 7:30, depending on when he comes to me saying he is hungry

There are MANY folks on here who've been doing this a LOT longer than I have. But I found (based on advice from folks here) that switching to smaller, more frequent meals - and feeding on a pretty rigid schedule - was what allowed my Tink to go OTJ (rather quickly actually). Tink eats after his am test, usually just after 6am. I bought a timed feeder to give him a meal at 11am, I feed when I get home at 4pm and again before bed a little after 9pm. So basically he's eating every 5 hours, except overnight. We're still seeing higher morning numbers though, and I've toyed with the idea of splitting into 5 feedings with a midnight snack, via timed feeder. Having 3 other cats in the house makes this difficult though.

I found that his blood glucose remains a lot more constant on this schedule. I do bend the schedule a small bit on the weekends... moving first meal (and test) to around 7:30 to let myself sleep in a bit. I try to move the other feedings so that he's still eating every 5 hours or so.

Even for a cat still on insulin, it makes sense to feed smaller, more frequent meals. The same is usually suggested for human diabetics. I would also DEFINITELY make sure you're testing before each insulin injection. You dont want to shoot if he's too low. Also test at nadir when you can, to make sure he's not going too low (or staying too high) at any point. I had a less-than-knowledgable vet to work with and if I'd shot his dosage blindly, my Tink would have gone hypo within the first two weeks. That any vet would discourage home testing makes me shake my head. No human doctor would suggest this for a diabetic patient. I dont understand the difference. (Not saying yours discouraged it... but mine sure did)

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Some fortiflora might help his stomach out with the food change. It's a kitty probiotic. You can find it here: http://www.amazon.com/Purina-Fortif...ment/dp/B001650OE0/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

I've found that Bandit sometimes gets some runny poo if he eats too much food with a high fat content. It's a little pricy, but Weruva Paw Lickin' Chicken is low in fat and carbs. I alternate it with Wellness (to even out the higher fat content in Wellness). How much you feed depends on how many calories are in the can--for example, Wellness is pretty high calorie so Bandit gets 1 5.5 oz can a day (split into 4 meals). The Weruva has a lower calorie count per can, so I'm only getting 2 and a half-3 meals out of one 5.5 oz can of Weruva. I've found that with most foods, Bandit needs about 6 oz of food a day.