NEW HERE Cat just diagnosed diabetic

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Dusty & Roe

Member Since 2020
Hi to everyone, My 9yr old Kitty was just diagnosed with Diabetes this week . I had her blood work done last month and it was normal . Seems like this came on all of a sudden sugar was 479 .
With that being said Iam VERY New to all of this and Extremely Overwhelmed .....
My Vet suggested Fancy Feast which my cat is not fond of . I just tried Tiki cat she seems to like it better but still does not eat all of a small can , she ate dry food most of her life ( I had no idea ) . She is on Lantus 1 unit 2xs .
I’m concerned because I do not have a monitor yet ,the vet tells me it’s a low dose and will be getting a blood monitor this Thursday but is that ok to wait till then ? I ve been reading everything Please any advise you can give me I would be so thankful for
 
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Hi and welcome Kitty and you to the forum. It is overwhelming in the beginning but you have come to the very best please for help. Lots of knowledgeable people here and very friendly community.
please keep asking questions.
With the food you don’t have to use fancy feast if she won’t eat it.
Have a look at the link below and choose canned foods that are 10%carbs or less.
I’m not sure what country you live in so I’ll send you the whole list and you can choose
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

What sort of glucose meter are you getting? There is no need to buy a pet meter as the human meters are fine, that is what we base out dosing methods on here, and human meters are much cheaper to run. The pet meter strips are vet expensive.

As far as not testing.....it is obviously much safer to test and I’m glad you are going to.
1 unit may not sound a lot but if it is more than a cat needs it can drop the BGs a lot so what your vet says is not really true for every cat.

What I would do is either stick with the dry food until you have the meter and give the insulin dose
OR swap over to the canned food now and not give the insulin until you have the meter on Thursday. If you decide to do the second option, you will need to go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy (or Walmart if you are in the US) and test the urine every day for ketones. Ketones can form if there is not enough insulin and many newly diagnosed cats get them. They can rapidly change into DKA which is a dangerous illness for cats.

If the vet mentioned ketones at all I would start the insulin now and feed the dry food.

Here are a couple of links for you
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Bron
 
Welcome! I was in your position three weeks ago. My cat Monkey's health was declining rapidly. Today he has greatly recovered thanks to this forum. It seems that your cat has abnormal BG for only a month or two. Your cat is in a good position since the earlier a cat is treated, the higher the remission rate.

I am no expert (There are many very helpful experts here). I do agree with Bron that 1 unit of Lantus can bring some cat to very low BG. For example, sometime ago, it takes 3.25 unit of Lantus to take Monkey to low BG. Now 1 unit of Lantus can take him to low BG. So you can see that, even the same cat can have very different reaction

My advice is follow the advice from people here. Taking care of diabetic cat is not super easy but it is very manageable;)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi and welcome Kitty and you to the forum. It is overwhelming in the beginning but you have come to the very best please for help. Lots of knowledgeable people here and very friendly community.
please keep asking questions.
With the food you don’t have to use fancy feast if she won’t eat it.
Have a look at the link below and choose canned foods that are 10%carbs or less.
I’m not sure what country you live in so I’ll send you the whole list and you can choose
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

What sort of glucose meter are you getting? There is no need to buy a pet meter as the human meters are fine, that is what we base out dosing methods on here, and human meters are much cheaper to run. The pet meter strips are vet expensive.

As far as not testing.....it is obviously much safer to test and I’m glad you are going to.
1 unit may not sound a lot but if it is more than a cat needs it can drop the BGs a lot so what your vet says is not really true for every cat.

What I would do is either stick with the dry food until you have the meter and give the insulin dose
OR swap over to the canned food now and not give the insulin until you have the meter on Thursday. If you decide to do the second option, you will need to go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy (or Walmart if you are in the US) and test the urine every day for ketones. Ketones can form if there is not enough insulin and many newly diagnosed cats get them. They can rapidly change into DKA which is a dangerous illness for cats.

If the vet mentioned ketones at all I would start the insulin now and feed the dry food.

Here are a couple of links for you
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Bron
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Peter H said:
Welcome! I was in your position three weeks ago. My cat Monkey's health was declining rapidly. Today he has greatly recovered thanks to this forum. It seems that your cat has abnormal BG for only a month or two. Your cat is in a good position since the earlier a cat is treated, the higher the remission rate.

I am no expert (There are many very helpful experts here). I do agree with Bron that 1 unit of Lantus can bring some cat to very low BG. For example, sometime ago, it takes 3.25 unit of Lantus to take Monkey to low BG. Now 1 unit of Lantus can take him to low BG. So you can see that, even the same cat can have very different reaction

My advice is follow the advice from people here. Taking care of diabetic cat is not super easy but it is very manageable;)
Click to expand...

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi and welcome Kitty and you to the forum. It is overwhelming in the beginning but you have come to the very best please for help. Lots of knowledgeable people here and very friendly community.
please keep asking questions.
With the food you don’t have to use fancy feast if she won’t eat it.
Have a look at the link below and choose canned foods that are 10%carbs or less.
I’m not sure what country you live in so I’ll send you the whole list and you can choose
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

What sort of glucose meter are you getting? There is no need to buy a pet meter as the human meters are fine, that is what we base out dosing methods on here, and human meters are much cheaper to run. The pet meter strips are vet expensive.

As far as not testing.....it is obviously much safer to test and I’m glad you are going to.
1 unit may not sound a lot but if it is more than a cat needs it can drop the BGs a lot so what your vet says is not really true for every cat.

What I would do is either stick with the dry food until you have the meter and give the insulin dose
OR swap over to the canned food now and not give the insulin until you have the meter on Thursday. If you decide to do the second option, you will need to go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy (or Walmart if you are in the US) and test the urine every day for ketones. Ketones can form if there is not enough insulin and many newly diagnosed cats get them. They can rapidly change into DKA which is a dangerous illness for cats.

If the vet mentioned ketones at all I would start the insulin now and feed the dry food.

Here are a couple of links for you
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Bron
Click to expand...
Peter H said:
Welcome! I was in your position three weeks ago. My cat Monkey's health was declining rapidly. Today he has greatly recovered thanks to this forum. It seems that your cat has abnormal BG for only a month or two. Your cat is in a good position since the earlier a cat is treated, the higher the remission rate.

I am no expert (There are many very helpful experts here). I do agree with Bron that 1 unit of Lantus can bring some cat to very low BG. For example, sometime ago, it takes 3.25 unit of Lantus to take Monkey to low BG. Now 1 unit of Lantus can take him to low BG. So you can see that, even the same cat can have very different reaction

My advice is follow the advice from people here. Taking care of diabetic cat is not super easy but it is very manageable;)
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THANK YOU for the welcome and replies ,it feel Great to have all of you to talk with ! From what I know my Vet told me the meter will be something Dusty will wear so it will calculate all the time and avoid the hospital stay . I have No idea what she is talking about not to mention getting my cat to wear something all day is a challenge in itself . Have you heard of this kind of meter ? While using the Lantus pen as she is eating she tries to move away just as I hit the pen button , bends the needle and I’m always afraid she did not get her dose . The pen does go back to zero though . Iam once again so Overwhelmed
Really Glad to be with all of you through this Roe from New Jersey US
 
well if you can feel wet fur or a STRONG insulin order...you may have given what we call a "fur shot" The important thing about that is, NOT to administer another dose until the 12 hour period. You never know how much insulin got in there.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
well if you can feel wet fur or a STRONG insulin order...you may have given what we call a "fur shot" The important thing about that is, NOT to administer another dose until the 12 hour period. You never know how much insulin got in there.
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JT what a good point you mentioned about wet fur ! My Vet shaved 2 spots on Dusty and she is short hair to begin with . I haven’t seen wet fur I guess it’s because she moves just as I’m hitting the button on the pen it makes me wonder if she got her dose . The pen dose go back to zero though . I’m trying so hard to do everything right .
Dusty is an Oriental short hair Roe and Dusty
 
It sounds like you are using a pen to give the insulin. Unfortunately pens only do 1 or sometimes 1/2 units and we recommend going up or down in 1/4 unit increments so I would suggest you get some syringes so you can use them. You can still use the insulin from the pen. There is a rubber stopper that is at the end of the cartridge (in the pen) that you put the needle into to draw the insulin.
The type of syringes you need are U 100 3/10ml 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes.
Brands include Unicare,Monojet, Carepoint, Sure comfort, and B/D. Walmart also have their own brand, cost $12.58 box of 100. And importantly ask for syringes with 1/2 unit markings

While the Freestyle Libre is good (mostly) for a new carer as she gets used to caring for a diabetic cat, to use it all the time is very expensive and they sometimes fall off. I would recommend you look into home testing yourself. That is something we all do and it keeps our kitties safe. I would also suggest buying a human meter as they are much cheaper to run than a pet meter. You can buy a ReliOn Prime from Walmart very cheaply.
Here is a link to how to do it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-here-cat-just-diagnosed-diabetic.228938/#post-2563713
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
It sounds like you are using a pen to give the insulin. Unfortunately pens only do 1 or sometimes 1/2 units and we recommend going up or down in 1/4 unit increments so I would suggest you get some syringes so you can use them. You can still use the insulin from the pen. There is a rubber stopper that is at the end of the cartridge (in the pen) that you put the needle into to draw the insulin.
The type of syringes you need are U 100 3/10ml 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes.
Brands include Unicare,Monojet, Carepoint, Sure comfort, and B/D. Walmart also have their own brand, cost $12.58 box of 100. And importantly ask for syringes with 1/2 unit markings

While the Freestyle Libre is good (mostly) for a new carer as she gets used to caring for a diabetic cat, to use it all the time is very expensive and they sometimes fall off. I would recommend you look into home testing yourself. That is something we all do and it keeps our kitties safe. I would also suggest buying a human meter as they are much cheaper to run than a pet meter. You can buy a ReliOn Prime from Walmart very cheaply.
Here is a link to how to do it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-here-cat-just-diagnosed-diabetic.228938/#post-2563713
Click to expand...
Bron the link did not work ?
 
Dusty & Roe said:
Yes it worked ! I have to ask are there such things as meters with lancet right on the strips ? I believe I saw a friends Mother use one on herself . Just seems like it would be a one shot deal if it exist . Ever heard of one ?
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No, you have to prick the ear with a lancet and then get the blood into the strip.
When you buy the lancets, ask for size 26 or 28 gauge. And get some cotton balls to put behind the ear to brace it while you poke and then hold the cotton ball over the prick when you’re done for a minute...helps stop bruising.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
No, you have to prick the ear with a lancet and then get the blood into the strip.
When you buy the lancets, ask for size 26 or 28 gauge. And get some cotton balls to put behind the ear to brace it while you poke and then hold the cotton ball over the prick when you’re done for a minute...helps stop bruising.
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Thank you Bron
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
No, you have to prick the ear with a lancet and then get the blood into the strip.
When you buy the lancets, ask for size 26 or 28 gauge. And get some cotton balls to put behind the ear to brace it while you poke and then hold the cotton ball over the prick when you’re done for a minute...helps stop bruising.
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That is good to know...My poor Brady's ears are so boogered up....plus he is getting like little bumps on his ears from the testing...any advice for that?
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
right after the poke hold the site between thumb and index finger and press. Helps the blood to stop and helps the swelling then add a dab of neosporin ointment (not cream) you can get the kind for pain.
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We have the Neosporin ointment, its just his poor little ears are so bumpy, that worries me too...don't want him getting some sort of infection or something.....
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Putting pressure on the poke will help with that and neosporin will help with the rest. ;)
His little bumpies should disappear in a few days. Troubles (bumps) crusted up and fell off.
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I like the Neosporin idea Getting ready to take Dusty to the Vet for blood work and to find out about her meter . Mentally this is so much to process , I just feel so bad about the needles which she is starting to fight me with even when eating not to mention now having to poke her ear. AAAAHHHH I feel so bad and not have a good confidence day in myself Just needed to vent
 
Dusty & Roe said:
I like the Neosporin idea Getting ready to take Dusty to the Vet for blood work and to find out about her meter . Mentally this is so much to process , I just feel so bad about the needles which she is starting to fight me with even when eating not to mention now having to poke her ear. AAAAHHHH I feel so bad and not have a good confidence day in myself Just needed to vent
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You have NO IDEA how many times I have vented and im sure I will continue to vent on here.....these people lift your spirits no matter the situation, trust me I know.....so vent away, cry away, talk away...they will be here for you
 
Dusty & Roe said:
I like the Neosporin idea Getting ready to take Dusty to the Vet for blood work and to find out about her meter . Mentally this is so much to process , I just feel so bad about the needles which she is starting to fight me with even when eating not to mention now having to poke her ear. AAAAHHHH I feel so bad and not have a good confidence day in myself Just needed to vent
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Ya know? We've all been there, but believe me when you see your baby finally feeling better, its WORTH EVERY POKE! You got this and if you dont? we will be here to help you sort it out. its what family does for each other!:bighug:
 
Irish Pat said:
You have NO IDEA how many times I have vented and im sure I will continue to vent on here.....these people lift your spirits no matter the situation, trust me I know.....so vent away, cry away, talk away...they will be here for you
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Pat that means the world to me . Most of my friends are dog or human baby people with the attitude of their an animal they will adjust about as much compassion for a cat as I don’t know what . Needless to say I really have no one to talk with about all of this . Example ; if I have to hear how costly this is and not fair to the cat hinting at what they would do .
So coming here and reading all your stories and how kind you all are has let me know I was sent here for a reason and it is as Jt says a “Family” Thank you is not enough
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
;):coffee:
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Jt you honestly make me laugh I Adore your sense of humor . Ok so I’m waiting on the Vet to call me . Dustys BG went from 479 to 250 ok ok inside I was hoping she would go into remission but I’m still happy to hear this . I do not know what meter the Vet will suggest yet or the plan till I speak with her . Dusty has become VERY Difficult to give her shot to . I wait till she is eating and now she is trying to run for it . Waiting on the Vet tap tap tap
Roe
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Are you refrigerating your insulin? Cold insulin can sting going in. I use to draw it into the syringe then roll between my fingers to warm it up some. Cold insulin made Trouble run.
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No the Vet told once the pen is in use no need to refrigerate it . Ok Jt this is what the Vet suggested today . To keep doing the same dose and if I want to wait 2 weeks to put the 14 day monitor on her that is fine or I can wait a week . Since she is on a low dose of Lantus 1 unit the Vet doesn't think I need to use a meter as of yet till she stabilizes . I believed I mentioned she went from BG 479 now down to 257 in 6 days . Wondering after the 14 days will she stop wearing that meter ?
 
Dusty & Roe said:
inside I was hoping she would go into remission but I’m still happy to hear this
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It took time for our cats to become diabetic, it will take time to get them better. It can take weeks or months to get a cat regulated and then in better and better blood glucose (BG) numbers. Give it some time.

Insulin is a hormone, and it takes time to adjust the dose and heal the pancreas. It's not like giving your cat an antibiotic, and having their infection go away in 7-10 days.

Remission is also called diet controlled status or here we call it OTJ (Off-the-Juice, insulin being the juice.)
But the goal, the main goal should be to get your cat feeling and acting better, and to reduce the symptoms of diabetes. Less drinking, less peeing, grooming themselves again, purring again, playing and acting like their old selves.

Remission is a bonus. Not to be expected with every cat.

No matter if your vet suggests the Alphatrak, tell them the cost of test strips is prohibitive, and you would rather use a human meter. Before Abbott Pharmaceuticals saw a niche market, everyone including vets used human meters to test the BG levels of cats.

At least your vet prescribed one of the better insulins for cats. Best insulins for cats are Prozinc, Lantus or Levemir. Caninsulin/Vetsulin doesn't have the duration at only 8-10 hours that cats need. It's made for dogs. NPH has an even poorer duration, 6-8 hours.

Dusty & Roe said:
Waiting on the Vet tap tap tap
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I can just picture you, high heels tapping away!;)
 
Dusty & Roe said:
No the Vet told once the pen is in use no need to refrigerate it
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Insulin lasts longer if it's refrigerated. Lantus is expensive. Do all you can to make the insulin pen last is my recommendation.
Dusty & Roe said:
Wondering after the 14 days will she stop wearing that meter ?
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The Libre Freestyle CGM meters stop working after 14 days. That is their built in life expectancy, and they stop working after that.

Cats don't stabilize in a week. Or 2 weeks, or even a month. It usually takes longer than that to see a cat regulated.

Do you have a hypo toolkit ready? In case your cat shows symptoms of hypoglycemia, it's nice to be prepared ahead of time, and know what to do.
 
Deb & Wink said:
It took time for our cats to become diabetic, it will take time to get them better. It can take weeks or months to get a cat regulated and then in better and better blood glucose (BG) numbers. Give it some time.

Insulin is a hormone, and it takes time to adjust the dose and heal the pancreas. It's not like giving your cat an antibiotic, and having their infection go away in 7-10 days.

Remission is also called diet controlled status or here we call it OTJ (Off-the-Juice, insulin being the juice.)
But the goal, the main goal should be to get your cat feeling and acting better, and to reduce the symptoms of diabetes. Less drinking, less peeing, grooming themselves again, purring again, playing and acting like their old selves.

Remission is a bonus. Not to be expected with every cat.

No matter if your vet suggests the Alphatrak, tell them the cost of test strips is prohibitive, and you would rather use a human meter. Before Abbott Pharmaceuticals saw a niche market, everyone including vets used human meters to test the BG levels of cats.

At least your vet prescribed one of the better insulins for cats. Best insulins for cats are Prozinc, Lantus or Levemir. Caninsulin/Vetsulin doesn't have the duration at only 8-10 hours that cats need. It's made for dogs. NPH has an even poorer duration, 6-8 hours.

I can just picture you, high heels tapping away!;)
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Deb thank you why do I get the feeling you know just as much if not More than a Vet !
 
Dusty & Roe said:
Deb thank you why do I get the feeling you know just as much if not More than a Vet !
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Heck no! I've just been doing this for a few years and paying it forward to the next group of people that have a newly diagnosed diabetic cat. For that, you have Wink over there to thank, the tuxedo kitty up on the kitchen island breakfast bar, waiting for me to give him whatever I'm cooking and giving YOU the "side eye."

Feline diabetes, I have a good general medium level knowledge. There are several people here on the message board that blow me away with their level of know how. Know a bit about a few other feline health conditions, since I've had cats with things like CKD, hyper-T, stomatitis, liver problems, IBD, oral cancer, and a few other things.

Vets have to know a lot about many more conditions and how to treat both cats and dogs and lots of other species too.

I think of a message board like us being an adjunct to your vet, part of your support network.
 
I would definitely keep the insulin in the Fridge. It will last a lot longer.
There are no guarantees that Kitty won’t drop too low on the 1 unit of insulin. And by the time a cat is showing signs of a hypo, they are usually very low.
I would strongly recommend you go out and buy a human meter and start testing before every shot, and again during the cycle to see how low the dose is taking Kitty. If you want to try the Freestyle Libre, use that time to get up to speed with the home testing as well. But I would not leave it all for 2 weeks and think it is going to be fine.......it may be but it may not be.
 
Dusty & Roe said:
No the Vet told once the pen is in use no need to refrigerate it . Ok Jt this is what the Vet suggested today . To keep doing the same dose and if I want to wait 2 weeks to put the 14 day monitor on her that is fine or I can wait a week . Since she is on a low dose of Lantus 1 unit the Vet doesn't think I need to use a meter as of yet till she stabilizes . I believed I mentioned she went from BG 479 now down to 257 in 6 days . Wondering after the 14 days will she stop wearing that meter ?
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Honestly I would follow Debs and Brons advice. They know their stuff!;)

Also I would immediately go out and get your own, glucose monitor, test strips, AND ketone urine strips. That way you will be in control of your cats diabetes. In the beginning its tough but I believe you are up to the task! YOU GOT THIS!
 
Any idea why the Vet would not suggest to start with a meter yet ? After learning and reading from hear and links I find it odd . Could it be because Dusty is new to this or as she puts it she seems to think it’s a low dose of insulin. I’m confused by her suggestion . I just want to do the best I can . You have no idea how Valued each of you are .
 
Dusty & Roe said:
Any idea why the Vet would not suggest to start with a meter yet ? After learning and reading from hear and links I find it odd . Could it be because Dusty is new to this or as she puts it she seems to think it’s a low dose of insulin. I’m confused by her suggestion . I just want to do the best I can . You have no idea how Valued each of you are .
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A lot of Vets believe their clients are incapable OR dont want to do home testing. I hate to say it but, it ALSO means more $$$ for them in added appointments. I was lucky my Vet was all on board with my decision. I sent her to this site and she gave me the big thumbs up!
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
A lot of Vets believe their clients are incapable OR dont want to do home testing. I hate to say it but, it ALSO means more $$$ for them in added appointments. I was lucky my Vet was all on board with my decision. I sent her to this site and she gave me the big thumbs up!
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Hi Jt the tea just called in Dusty Freestyle system she wanted to wait 2 weeks to put it on her but then she said it could go on next week if I wanted . I would take bets Dusty will not keep this on . I have to upload a picture she has a very thin neck . I will stay positive till then
 
Deb & Wink said:
The Freestyle Libre doesn't go on the neck, but goes further back on the cat's body.

See this video for an example.
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Deb Excellent Video The ones I had seen showed it on the neck with a soft cloth wrapped around it . Am I understanding right that even after the 14 days Dusty will still be wearing this instead of home testing ? Btw how did you know about high heel tapping Lol
 
Dusty & Roe said:
Am I understanding right that even after the 14 days Dusty will still be wearing this instead of home testing ?
Click to expand...

After 14 days, he needs to have a new sensor attached. Built in short lifespan, only good for 14 days MAX. The old sensor gets removed. Even a CGM sensor needs some supplementation from a hand held glucometer now and then. For instance when a cat gets in really low numbers, and the BG's need to be brought back up to a safer level. Or if the sensor quits working before the 14 days are up. It happens, so be prepared for the possibility.

Glad you liked that video. It's by the administrator of the French language feline diabetes facebook group. Best video I've seen on the Libre. Stephanie used to post here before she started her group for French speakers a couple of years ago.

Dusty & Roe said:
Btw how did you know about high heel tapping Lol
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Took a wild guess! Pictured some Manolo Blahnik's like these:
upload_2020-5-1_18-16-0.jpeg

Partial to the yellow right now, since the color reminds me of the daffodils that are blooming in my garden now.
 

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If you have a fat cat the neck would be fine. If not they you have to attach it further back. I got 14 days for Badger's sensor and it he is meaty. I got less for Wiggles, he is not that meaty. It appears you need enough subcutaneous tissue below the sensor so that the little filament that goes into the skin remains in the subcutaneous layer with the cat moves. Here is photo of Badgers' skin where the sensor was.
IMG_1148.JPG
 

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Larry and Kitties said:
If you have a fat cat the neck would be fine. If not they you have to attach it further back. I got 14 days for Badger's sensor and it he is meaty. I got less for Wiggles, he is not that meaty. It appears you need enough subcutaneous tissue below the sensor so that the little filament that goes into the skin remains in the subcutaneous layer with the cat moves. Here is photo of Badgers' skin where the sensor was.
View attachment 53222
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Hi Larry looks painful how long total has Badgers worn this system ? Do they keep it on for months ?
 
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