New Here and Told Our Cat is 'Borderline" Diabetic

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koala kim

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone!

We have 3 senior cats; Spooky (11 1/2), Voodoo (11 1/2), and BearBear (unknown, but he was an adult and had been cruising the neighborhood, living with others until they threw him out, for a number of years, when he moved in from the streets, and we've had him for about 7 years).

One of Spooky's teeth started going bad, so we took him in for his tooth. I asked for an exam as well, as we had lost our Punkin in Sept. 2011 to cancer. The vet agreed. She called us 3 days later (June 14th) with the results from the blood work; liver & kidneys good, but his blood sugar was high, and wanted us to bring him back in. I asked if we should come in that day, and she said "whenever is fine."

We went back Monday (18th), and she did both a urine test, and a glucose test. The urine test was okay, but his blood sugar was 324. She said that sometimes, the stress of the vet's office will make it go up. We also found out that his blood sugar on the 11th had been 379.

The assistant came back with a bag of Purina DM dry (she had looked for wet too, but they were out). I flipped it over and saw soy protein & corn gluten, and told her we would not be feeding Spooky that. she asked what we were feeding the cats. I told her Orijen dry, as well as EVO 95% wet. She seemed okay with that. I then asked if we should continue to free feed the dry. She said she didn't see a problem with leaving the dry out; just be sure he got canned too and plenty of water (which they do).

She then told us that she wanted to wait and do another test before any decision on insulin was made. We go back on July 2nd.

In the meantime, while I didn't know if 324 was too high or not for a cat- I knew there had to be more information out there somewhere. So I hit the Internet. The very first thing I found out was that 324 is high for cats, but their count can go up from stress. So the vet visit + the tooth (which the poor thing still has as the vet doesn't want to do surgery until we know for certain if he's diabetic).

I also found out that, while I thought I had been doing the right thing by buying 'the best' dry I could find, I unwittingly contributed to this. :cry:

I immediately went out and stocked up on Fancy Feast Classic, as well as some EVO 95%. I cannot begin to tell you how much it pained me to buy Fancy Feast. I have been under the impression that meat-by-products are 'evil'.

I also, after buying the EVO, found out it has more fat in it than Fancy Feast.

I left the dry out, but did not replenish. Spooky has been taking the transition in stride. Voodoo is ecstatic, as she has always thought canned should be the food of choice :lol: . BearBear is having a harder time, as he is a slow eater, and a grazer. I believe he mourned the bowl when I put it away Wednesday. :sad:

Anyway, I am feeding canned now; Fancy Feast & EVO 95%. I have, in the past, tried some of the frozen raw, and the cats are not excited about it. At all. If they were, I would have switched over years ago and perhaps Spooky wouldn't be in this position. :sad:

He doesn't seem to be making as many trips to the litter box to urinate, and when he does, he no longer sounds like a race horse. :smile:

Do I need to do anything else? Should I start trying to monitor his blood sugar?
Also- any suggestions on how to get BearBear to eat his canned better?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks in advance from Kim & the Cat Crew
 
koala kim said:
Hi everyone!

We have 3 senior cats; Spooky (11 1/2), Voodoo (11 1/2), and BearBear (unknown, but he was an adult and had been cruising the neighborhood, living with others until they threw him out, for a number of years, when he moved in from the streets, and we've had him for about 7 years).

One of Spooky's teeth started going bad, so we took him in for his tooth. I asked for an exam as well, as we had lost our Punkin in Sept. 2011 to cancer. The vet agreed. She called us 3 days later (June 14th) with the results from the blood work; liver & kidneys good, but his blood sugar was high, and wanted us to bring him back in. I asked if we should come in that day, and she said "whenever is fine."

We went back Monday (18th), and she did both a urine test, and a glucose test. The urine test was okay, but his blood sugar was 324. She said that sometimes, the stress of the vet's office will make it go up. We also found out that his blood sugar on the 11th had been 379.

The assistant came back with a bag of Purina DM dry (she had looked for wet too, but they were out). I flipped it over and saw soy protein & corn gluten, and told her we would not be feeding Spooky that. she asked what we were feeding the cats. I told her Orijen dry, as well as EVO 95% wet. She seemed okay with that. I then asked if we should continue to free feed the dry. She said she didn't see a problem with leaving the dry out; just be sure he got canned too and plenty of water (which they do).

She then told us that she wanted to wait and do another test before any decision on insulin was made. We go back on July 2nd.

In the meantime, while I didn't know if 324 was too high or not for a cat- I knew there had to be more information out there somewhere. So I hit the Internet. The very first thing I found out was that 324 is high for cats, but their count can go up from stress. So the vet visit + the tooth (which the poor thing still has as the vet doesn't want to do surgery until we know for certain if he's diabetic).

I also found out that, while I thought I had been doing the right thing by buying 'the best' dry I could find, I unwittingly contributed to this. :cry:

I immediately went out and stocked up on Fancy Feast Classic, as well as some EVO 95%. I cannot begin to tell you how much it pained me to buy Fancy Feast. I have been under the impression that meat-by-products are 'evil'.

I also, after buying the EVO, found out it has more fat in it than Fancy Feast.

I left the dry out, but did not replenish. Spooky has been taking the transition in stride. Voodoo is ecstatic, as she has always thought canned should be the food of choice :lol: . BearBear is having a harder time, as he is a slow eater, and a grazer. I believe he mourned the bowl when I put it away Wednesday. :sad:

Anyway, I am feeding canned now; Fancy Feast & EVO 95%. I have, in the past, tried some of the frozen raw, and the cats are not excited about it. At all. If they were, I would have switched over years ago and perhaps Spooky wouldn't be in this position. :sad:

He doesn't seem to be making as many trips to the litter box to urinate, and when he does, he no longer sounds like a race horse. :smile:

Do I need to do anything else? Should I start trying to monitor his blood sugar?
Also- any suggestions on how to get BearBear to eat his canned better?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks in advance from Kim & the Cat Crew
Click to expand...

Welcome to the board, and well done for your research so far and standing up to the vet on the food because the food may be what keeps your kitty as a diet controlled diabetic cat.

I think what you can do is to pick up a glucometer, do not get any with names TRU or the FreeStyle metes as they test giving false low numbers. If in the US, the Relion meters are quite good and the test strips are most economical. You can start by testing BG at home and know what sort of numbers you get when feeding low carb wet food and there is no vet stress in the numbers. You can also pick up some KETOSTIX at the pharmacy as well so that you can test for ketones in your cat's urine.

Plenty of things can cause higher BG numbers, like infection and dental issues, plus stress and high carb diet.
It's pretty sad that often, those high BG numbers are most likely caused by that dry food the vets are claiming to be 'good for your cat'.

No need to think about treating diabetes in your cat if just a proper diet can fix the numbers.
Give it a good week to see what sorts of numbers you are getting, then you can decide if you need to take other actions.
For all you know, the raised numbers could have been mostly due to Spooky's bad tooth.
 
Hi and welcome!

Your vet is not all wrong, yes stress can raise your cat's blood glucose. Most people opt for what is called a Fructosamine test to diagnose our cats - a Fructosamine basically gives you an average of your cat's blood glucose over the past 3 weeks. That is more reliable than a single test. Bad teeth go hand in hand with diabetes too - my Scooter is in desperate need of a dental and I believe it is the only thing keeping him from going off insulin!

I had been under the impression that byproducts were evil and Fancy Feast was the McDonalds of cat food. I was very wrong. :lol: The Fancy Feast classics line is actually quite good for a diabetic cat and affordable. It comes in a lot of flavors too. I am a bargain hunter though - my Scooter gets a new food altogether after a few weeks. We did Special Kitty Select (Walmart's cheaper FF equivalent) for a while, then we did Whiskas recloseable trays for a while, and now my Petsmart had the big cans of Wellness for 2.40 so we're doing that for a few weeks. :lol: Scooter is a garbage bin and will eat just about anything that smells edible. He loves fruit flavored marshmallows. ohmygod_smile

I would pick up a glucometer and give Spooky a few tests. Then you can decide where to go with the insulin. :)
 
Hi guys and welcome! I'm so glad you decided to do some research on what your vet has told you. Like Ry said, most vets confirm a cat is diabetic by a fructosamine test, so you should call your vet and see if they did that test, or just a simple one time test in their office. I wouldn't be surprised if once the kitties bad tooth is taken care and new wet food is in their systems that you very well may have a non diabetic cat. But this information is something valuable that you can use with these kitties and future kitties! Please update us when you can!
 
Thank you Gayle Shadoe & Oliver and Ry & Scooter for the warm welcome. :smile:

@ Gayle- I have a glucose meter already (it was my dad's, and, ironically enough- I'm pre-diabetic ohmygod_smile ) but it is a FreeStyle. I will look for a Relion meter. Thanks for the suggestion. :-D


@ Ry- I will ask about the Fructosamine test when we go back. Thank you. :smile:
the McDonalds of cat food- that's how I looked at by-products too! :lol:
Spooky is our "garbage bin". :razz: I'll look into the Special Kitty Select. Right now, Pets Supplies Plus has the Fancy Feast on sale, so I tried to stock up. And by stock up, I mean- go back tomorrow and buy more. :lol:


I am hoping and praying that his tooth *is* the cause of this, and it can be controlled by diet alone. I will say that this past week has been an eye-opener, in terms of what to feed cats, etc. We will never buy dry again.
 
Even without the fructosamine test, if you start home testing now and getting several tests in each day, you will learn whether or not your cat will need insulin.

Normal range is between 40 - 120 -- http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Blood ... guidelines

So, if you find numbers consistently above this (give or take a few points), then with the food change, you may want to consider starting on insulin. There are three insulins that we recommend - prozinc, lantus or levimer. If you get to this point, I suggest you read up on these insulins (lots of info on the sub forums) and go to the vet knowing which one you want to use. As some vets who may not be up on diabetes care, may suggest an insulin other than one of these three.
 
You are off to a great start in getting this under control. Other good foods for diabetic cats are the Wellness Grain Free line, most of the Merrick varieties especially the Before Grains. By Nature and Blue Wilderness are good too. Have you seen the Freshpet Vital refrigerated food at Petsmart? Still waiting for all the info from the company but it loos pretty good for ingredients. These foods are great for most cats.

I'm not sure why your vet is waiting to do the dental because of the diabetes. Infections/bad teeth can definitely raise BG numbers, but if he isn't on insulin yet as long as his other blood tests are good there should be no problem form high BG. Most vets say to withhold insulin or cut the dose in half for a dental because anesthesia can lower BG. Getting the dental done could bring things back to normal or at least eliminate the problems of anesthesia /insulin dose.

The problem w/ the Freestyle is the new butterfly strips. If you want to use it for some initial tests it should be OK, then you could get started testing right away. BTW the Relion meter is from Walmart. The strips for it are some of the cheapest around and strips are one of the most expensive things in treating diabetes. You can get them even cheaper online at American Diabetes Wholesale if you end up in this for the long run.
 
@ Gayle- I have a glucose meter already (it was my dad's, and, ironically enough- I'm pre-diabetic ) but it is a FreeStyle. I will look for a Relion meter. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

Don't use the FreeStyle meters unless you have the old strips, not the 'new technology' butterfly strips.
I would guess by now, if you have any of the old strips, they could well be outdated, so you may as well start off right, with a trustworthy meter, especially since you don't know if your cat needs insulin or not.
Why no FreeStyle? Because the strips you get today will never give you a reading over around 299, and you could be mislead in thinking your cat really isn't diabetic at all. Way too many people are feeling horrible because they were led to believe that their cats' numbers were not all that bad... all the while, their poor cats were up in the 300s and 400s, suffering.

There are plenty of good meters, like the economical Relion ones, so why take a chance with your cat's well being by learning to test with a faulty meter.

The fructosamine test is pretty good to let you know your cat's average over the last couple of weeks, but since you will be testing him, why not save the money for the fructo test, get your testing supplies and know exactly what kind of numbers instead of an average.

If you find that the numbers settle down and you don't need to start on any insulin, it would be good to test every few days for awhile to be sure. The high numbers could be a pancreas sputter, so down the road, you may well need to start an insulin and that meter will be needed every day.
 
Thank you for the welcome PeterDevonMocha, Hillary, & Ann. :-D

I was at WalMart today, with the intent of picking up a Relion monitor. I did not write it down, and by the time I got there- I had forgotten all about it. ohmygod_smile
I'll try to go after work tomorrow.

@ PeterDevonMocha- My husband remembers the vet saying we could do the fructosamine test when we go in next time to get a better idea. I don't recall her saying that exact name, but since he jogged my memory, I do remember her saying we could do more detailed testing? I'm sure she must have mentioned the name of the test, but my mind was already going off in 10 different directions. :sad:

She has been holding off on the dental work to see if Spooky's numbers will drop.

@ Hillary & Maui- Thank you for pointing me to the insulin board. I didn't realize there were so many different types that could be used for cats. I had come across the prozinc and the lantus when first researching, but didn't read too much about them as my focus at that time was trying to see if I could do something about diet, as I knew it was something I could do *now*.


@ Gayle- Thank you for the explanation about the FreeStyle. I do have newer strips (bought them so I could spot check myself). I had no idea a monitor could be off by that much!

@ Ann & Tess- I have not heard of Freshpet, but will definitely check it out. Thanks!
I have a little mom & pop pet store ordering a bag of Stella & Chewy freeze dried raw for the Cat Crew to try. They had the dog food in stock, but not the cat. The clerk was nice enough to go online to compare the ingredients for me, and realized the dog variety had more "stuff" in it than the cat.

We have not had a problem with Spooky eating at all. BearBear is finally starting to eat decently. But now Voodoo didn't want to eat much tonight. She did eat well this morning, so I guess I shouldn't worry too much.

@ Ann-thank you for the time frame in which to test. That was a question that came to me earlier today.

I feel it's better to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, rather than just sit here, twiddle my thumbs, and hope everything turns out okay.
 
Being proactive is great- I was the twiddle my thumbs type of person until my cat was diagnosed.

Then I obediently followed the vets advise until I realized my vet had no clue about what was best for my cat and didn't care to learn so it was up to me to teach myself how to keep my fur baby alive and then I got pro-active. That did involve getting a new vet- who does know more about FD but not as much as I do and he knows it :lol: . When I can tell him exactly why I want this insulin or why I feed my canned food because of low carbs or why I want this test done- all because of my research rather than his. I did print off articles and such to give to him so he can read up on it but the decision is always mine.
 
yes, a frucotsamine test will actually average out the cats blood sugar readings over the last three weeks I do believe. An in house one time poke test tells the sugar readings right then and there, with all the added stress going into it.

I know several people on here are told to wait to do a dental, to see if their numbers drop on their own. But pain can increase a cat's sugar number by a lot, pain, infection, anything like that can raise a number up. So until the dental is done, sometimes numbers don't drop .. Know what I mean?

It's your call .. but see what others have to say about that as well ..
 
Hi Koala kim!

I know it's disappointing that you try to make the very best decisions for food for your fur babies, only to find that it may have made them sick :( We had ours on Orijen also, and our dog is on Acana, and I figured since it wasn't a bag of grocery store food full of fillers and by products that we were invincible... well, unfortunately some cats are more sensitive to the dry stuff than others and our boy Buca was diagnosed with struvite crystals two years ago and we nearly lost him. "Good" food was supposed to prevent that right? CRAZY hey? I allowed the vet to put him on Hills W/D dry ( I was so freaked that he almost died I would have done anything but should have trusted my gut and did more research). Two months ago our boy Buca was diagnosed with diabetes with numbers in the 500's. Makes sense since the first ingredient is corn gluten! ohmygod_smile

Anyways, long story short, after a couple of months on Lantus he has been OTJ (Off the juice) for 8 days so far and his #'s are in the 50's :mrgreen:

Good luck with yours! Keep us updated :-D
 
Hi There!

I am so glad you found this board. It saved me from having to start insulin on my Sweety. I was told she was borderline too. But I switched food from dry to all wet, tested her and watched the numbers come down. She never needed insulin.

There IS hope!

Good luck! And Welcome! There are a lot of smart caring people here.
 
I can't believe it's been so long since I've visited the boards ohmygod_smile

@ hmjohnston- my husband is the same way. He doesn't want to try anything unless the vet says it's okay.
We have been going round and round about in-home testing, etc. I bought the monitor, but have not started testing just yet as I am afraid I will hurt Spooky. I also want to make sure my husband knows how to do it, in case I'm not around when it needs to be done.

My husband also wants to make sure the monitor can be used for cats, even though I told him the Relion was recommended by people who have diabetic cats. The vet wanted us to purchase the Alpha Track, which is well over $100.

@ PeterDevonMocha- I believe his numbers may go down if his dental was done too, but not sure by how much.

@ Bucasmom- I am *so* happy for Buca!!! :-D
Yes, we try and do what we are led to believe is best for our furbabies, then realize we have been mislead. I cannot tell you how many times I have mentally beat myself up over unwittingly contributing to his condition. :sad:


We had the frucotsamine test done. The results were 390, so the vet would like to start Spooky on 1 unit twice a day. We are going tomorrow to the vet to I guess learn how to give shots, etc. Not sure. My husband talked to the vet, and when I asked what we would be doing there, he was like :?: ohmygod_smile

I do have a question about feeding. I'm not sure how often I'm supposed to feed the cats now that they're not free fed dry. I feed them around 9-9:30am (can of Fancy Feast), then when I get home from home which can be anywhere between 6:30-8:00pm (Voodoo & BearBear get about 2 ounces and Spooky gets 3 because he's a bigger boy; 14 lbs.). I also give them a little "snack" (about an ounce) around midnight.

Is this too much? Not enough? Does Spooky need to eat more often, just smaller meals?
I'm really nervous about the feeding schedule, insulin, and testing. I want to make it as stress free as possible, but am not sure how Spooky will react. He's usually laid back, but then again- he has been known to carry on like someone was killing him when blood is drawn at the vet. There are times when he could care less about it too.
 
There is an automatic feeder and I hear amazon has the lowest price.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GE ... PDKIKX0DER


I believe that in the early transitional phase for a cat that was eating dry food and then switched to hi protein, lo carb that they are a bit hungrier. That will change over time
but it is an adjustment switching from hi carbs to low/no carbs .
Plus if you are giving insulin, and have to work all day, They would want to be fed when you came home and feeding time and pre-shot glucose testing is affected by breakfast and dinner.
It would be more beneficial for them to have smaller more frequent meals if possible, and as I hear it, the ideal time to feed meals is right at shot time.
Some of the cats are so distracted while eating that they aren't really noticing they are getting a shot.
( I wish mine were that way) My numbers are affected by being fed before shots.

Some are freezing meals meant for later in the day and putting them in the auto feeder so they aren't spoiling later in the day.

Just a possiblity....



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xVmc#gid=0
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
There is an automatic feeder and I hear amazon has the lowest price.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GE ... PDKIKX0DER


I believe that in the early transitional phase for a cat that was eating dry food and then switched to hi protein, lo carb that they are a bit hungrier. That will change over time
but it is an adjustment switching from hi carbs to low/no carbs .
Plus if you are giving insulin, and have to work all day, They would want to be fed when you came home and feeding time and pre-shot glucose testing is affected by breakfast and dinner.
It would be more beneficial for them to have smaller more frequent meals if possible, and as I hear it, the ideal time to feed meals is right at shot time.
Some of the cats are so distracted while eating that they aren't really noticing they are getting a shot.
( I wish mine were that way) My numbers are affected by being fed before shots.

Some are freezing meals meant for later in the day and putting them in the auto feeder so they aren't spoiling later in the day.

Just a possiblity....



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xVmc#gid=0
Click to expand...
Thank you for the link. :smile:
The only problem with that is Spooky would want to eat *everyone's* food; not just his. He's always been a 'food bully'. :roll:
But that is still a good idea in case neither of us are here to feed when it's time. Thank you again! :-D

Just got in from the vet- I think everything went as well as it could. His reading was 379.
The vet thinks a twice a day feeding schedule would be better than twice a day and a snack, so we'll go with that and see how it works. I could still give a tiny treat, and perhaps that is all that will be needed to tide him over until the next feeding.

After reading up on the different insulins, I was hoping for Lantus and was going to suggest it. Lantus is the insulin the vet recommended, so I was happy with that.

Someone had kindly donated a 'slightly used' bottle, 3/4 full, which the vet gave to us free of charge :RAHCAT along with a 10 pack of needles.

My husband & I both are feeling pretty confident as far as the shots are concerned. It's the testing that has us a little worried right now. My hope though is, once Spooky gets used to it, he'll be okay with it.

Thank you everyone who has responded to my questions. I truly appreciate it. :YMHUG:
 
I can't recommend feeding twice a day... it's hard for an already struggling pancreas to be bombarded with tons of food once every 12 hours and left to starve in between. It's also not very fair for a kitty who is struggling to process food have to go hungry for so long. I feed Scooter anywhere from 5-8 times a day and it does cause visible swings in his BG, especially now that he is almost off insulin.

Home testing is definitely not easy in the start. If you struggle, just take a break and keep trying. Don't let yourself get frustrated and overwhelmed. Good luck ;-)
 
Ry & Scooter said:
I can't recommend feeding twice a day... it's hard for an already struggling pancreas to be bombarded with tons of food once every 12 hours and left to starve in between. It's also not very fair for a kitty who is struggling to process food have to go hungry for so long. I feed Scooter anywhere from 5-8 times a day and it does cause visible swings in his BG, especially now that he is almost off insulin.

Home testing is definitely not easy in the start. Just keep trying and don't let yourself get frustrated and overwhelmed. Good luck ;-)
Click to expand...
That's what I'm afraid of- the cats, especially Spooky, getting too hungry in between meals.

Believe me- I would *love* to be able to feed him smaller, more frequent meals. The vet didn't have too much of an opinion; she just said we could work around whatever feeding schedule we choose. She did seem to lean more towards the twice a day.

I'm truly confused and concerned now about feeding.
 
A good trick is to freeze an ice cube tray of any canned food and just drop a cube or two in each dish when you leave for work. They'll thaw over a few hrs (5-7 ish) and your kitty can either wait till it's room temperature or lick it like a meaty popsicle like Scooter does. :lol: I had the Petsafe 5 feeder too but he was really hit and miss with it.. after a few weeks he still didn't understand that it dispensed fresh food and I would come home to find all the trays full of food I had to throw away and him howling in starvation... so I returned it and we did the ice cubes instead.

My Scooter is also a scarf and barfer, meaning I have to feed him spoonfuls at a time or he gorges himself until he vomits. Sometimes 1/4 of a Fancy Feast can makes him vomit. I'd have a big mess to clean if I gave him a whole one. :lol: I prefer feeding smaller meals more frequently anyways.
 
Ry & Scooter said:
A good trick is to freeze an ice cube tray of any canned food and just drop a cube or two in each dish when you leave for work. They'll thaw over a few hrs (5-7 ish) and your kitty can either wait till it's room temperature or lick it like a meaty popsicle like Scooter does. :lol: I had the Petsafe 5 feeder too but he was really hit and miss with it.. after a few weeks he still didn't understand that it dispensed fresh food and I would come home to find all the trays full of food I had to throw away and him howling in starvation... so I returned it and we did the ice cubes instead.

My Scooter is also a scarf and barfer, meaning I have to feed him spoonfuls at a time or he gorges himself until he vomits. Sometimes 1/4 of a Fancy Feast can makes him vomit. I'd have a big mess to clean if I gave him a whole one. :lol: I prefer feeding smaller meals more frequently anyways.
Click to expand...
Thank you Ry! I would have never thought of ice cube food! This might be just the thing. There will be a little something, something out for them, yet I don't have to worry that Spooky will eat everyone's at the same time he eats his, as he will be too busy trying to eat.

Yeah...we love Spooky but he has never been the brightest crayon in the box. One of his nicknames used to be "D'oh! Boy". :lol: He may not catch on to the feeder either.

Oh- he does have a bad tooth (which is what started this ball rolling). Do you or anyone else think the cold food will bother his tooth? Or perhaps because he won't be able to get a lot of food at once, it won't affect his tooth at all?
 
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