New here and new to Diabetes - updated Jan 16

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Shawna & Davidson (GA)

Shawna & Davidson (GA)

Member Since 2014
Hi.........I'm Shawna and "Davidson" and I live in Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada. He's the brother of Harley (yeah, I know) and in mid November during an appt. for dental cleaning blood work was done and showed high gloucose levels. More tests were done and Davidson was diagnosed with Diabetes and my vet put him on w/d dry food. I mixed it with the old food (also Science Diet) with 85% w/d and he likes it. I read up a bit on feline diabetes and the symptoms were now obvious noticing the drinking and urination. I left for a 3 week vacation and had a pet sitter who I kept in contact with and she said nothing really changed. Got home Saturday night and yesterday noticed his gait was off and he was sitting in front of his water bowl. He also has lost weight since being diagnosed and seems lighter since before I left, as well he's not walking up on his paws as he used to.

I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow to get another blood test done and the vet thinks he may need to go on insulin since the w/d food should have been working to change his gloucose levels. Blood tests will show the vet what needs to be done.

Question: Did mixing the w/d food with the old type food offset what it was supposed to do, or has there not been enough time on the new food to take effect - been about 5 weeks?? I also see from reading on this board that most give up dry food and use only wet, however my vet said that the w/d dry is good and not to worry. In case he has to get insulin can it be in the pill form as I am terrified of needles and may find it hard to give them to Davidson based on my personal fear factor.

Any help or suggestions will be apprecaited and I am 10 min. from Buffalo and can go over the border for any devices I need to buy.

Thanks, and BTW, Harley is clean and both have no other 'cat' issues. Oh - he's 11.5 yrs old and has been 17 lbs since around 3 yrs old and now is 15 lbs which could be due to the food change and/or diabetes

Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

We have a very successful protocol that gets most cats into regulation and many into remission. But it requires wet low carb food. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org. Eating high carb food would be like a diabetic eating donuts daily...... And our program requires insulin. The pill taxes the pancreas instead of letting it recover like insulin does.

We'd be glad to help you figure this out and provide some scientific/vet studies for your vet. The general thinking is that you have a limited time to allow the pancreas to help - dry high carb food and the pill just wastes that valuable time
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Welcome Shawna and extra sweet Davidson! Your cats' names made me smile!

Honestly, I thought I could never give my girl shots. But it's so easy. She really doesn't even notice. She's purred right through it! Remember, as kittens they get carried around by the scruff...a quick poke is nothing! Don't stress...you can do this!

The W/D food is crap I believe. Sue recommended a great article. I have read it many times. It explains things so well!

Don't stress! You CAN do this!
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Welcome to you and Davidson.You have found the best place to learn about how to treat Davidson's diabetes.Dry food is high in carbohydrates which shoot up the BG's.Wet food is a better choice, as long as it isn't loaded with fillers, rice, grains, potatoes.

I, too, was terrified of giving Barney(GA) his shot.It made my hand shake the fear of hurting him was so great.I, too, HATE needles, to this day, personally and would rather leave the dr's office instead of getting a shot.

You CAN do it, with the help of this board.We all have been where you are now, and we got through it, and our cat's loved us for helping them with their diabetes. Keep posting and ask questions, you will be amazed at how you can be such a good cat mother.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Lantus and Levemir may be purchased much less expensively in Canada without a prescription. Both have 100 units per mL (U-100). Both of these have substantial carry over between shots, what we call a depot. Optimal use requires giving insulin at almost exactly 12 hour intervals and dose adjustments are based on a minimum of 3 to 5 days of the same dose and test values at the nadir, or lowest glucose level between shots.

If you go with either of these, get the cartridges (Canada) or pens, plus syringes to draw out the insulin. Each cartridge or pen is 3 mL (300 units) and they come in 5 packs. There are 10 mL vials, however you may not use all of it before it begins to lose effectiveness. Stored on a stationary shelf in your refrigerator, the 3 mL quantity may be used until gone. (The 28 day expiration is for humans who don't refrigerate.)

ProZinc requires a prescription and has 40 units per mL (U-40). It is an in and out insulin with minimal carry over between shots.You often can adjust the dose based on pre-shot values. It comes in a 10 mL vial (400 units)

On a per unit basis, Lantus is less expensive than ProZinc, especially if you can get it in Canada.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Thanks for the info............jsut came back from the Vet and a blood test was done and Davidson lost 1.2 lbs in 6 weeks and the test was at 28.6 which is very high. I was told 3-8.6 was normal and under stress with being at the Vet a reading of 15 was high, so he's off the chart. They are doing a curve (guess I have to find out about that) and I'm going back at 5pm to learn how to inject insulin.

I was told he needed it in 12 hrs intervals - what do you do when you have an active lifestyle and cannot necessarily be around every day to give a needle?? I know I have to adjust my lifestyle and perhaps they will come up with an injection that is done once per day.

I'm switching to just wet food and read the blub on food types but didn't see the Nutrience brand, which I have on hand and seems to have the same ingredients as the Merrick 96%. This is a totally new education for me and a real shock. Do we have the same type of Forum in Canada, as this is VERY helpful but there are hours of reading to be done.

I'm not sure what the Vet is going to give me for insulin, but I guess I can go shopping before hand and buy the needles needed?? Not even sure what they are or where to go............I'll learn as like most of you, we have to do it!
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

You'll need to decide what you're willing to do:
- adjust your schedule
- enlist others to test and shoot when you cannot
- use ProZinc due to its flexibility - tell the vet

Contact thefood manufacturer and request the "as fed" values.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Glad he is getting insulin. I hope the vet will start on a low dose and increase slowly, as blood glucose curves done at the vet can be much higher than at home since stress raises levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. we suggest starting at one unit and slowly increasing, basing on home testing.

Here is a recent thread on food in Canada: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=111332

We like Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. We think Vetsulin (Canninsulin) and Humulin are too harsh and shorter lasting and harder to regulate with. The needles will depend on the insulin - either U100 for the two L insulins and U40 for the ProZinc. As soon as you find out which type, we can show you the protocol for using it. ProZinc is a little more adaptable in terms of dosing - 30 minutes to 60 off schedule may be a possibility if you have data from home testing. But there is no insulin that can be given to cats once daily. They metabolize it too fast. Your best bet is to start testing at home, be proactive in terms of dosing based on your numbers, feed low carb food and hope he is one of the lucky ones who go into remission. Then both of you will get your full lives back! Truthfully, it becomes routine and takes only a few minutes out of your day.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

My foster cat Wink was prescribed the W/d food (37% carbs) by the vets and his BG(blood glucose) levels were always high. It wasn't until I switched him to a low carb canned food diet ( like Fancy feast pate style, Friskies pate style all <10% carbs) that he started to respond and went into remission. This was after being unregulated about 3.5 months at the shelter where he was eating grain free dry foods like Acana (still very high carb) and also being allowed to eat whatever they had out for the other shelter cats like Friskies dry food or other high carb dry foods.

So in my experience, the W/D dry food is too high in carbs and is not good for a diabetic cat, not matter what the vets insist.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

I just spoke to her on the phone ( she PM me and asked if she could). Tomorrow she is going shopping for a Relion confirm or micro etc.

She has stopped all dry food right now and is returning the WD wet and dry the vet gave her. She will be feeding Merricks BG for now and will consider fancy feast pates later.

The vet gave her caninsulin. She hasn't started it yet and I gave her a few documents on Lantus to show her vet - however since the vet didn't mention ketones (and she is buying ketone strips), she is going to do a short food trial first to give her a starting point.

Wendy
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Thanks to everyone and Wendy for being such a BIG help during a time when first time owners like me experience Diabetes............it's very over whelming to say the least, confusing and totally foreign to me. I've been readiing all day on the different forums on te internet and most say exactly the same thing like on this site. Wendy confirmed what I read and was so helpful in re-assuring me that Lantus is the way to go, along with testing daily at home. I'm not so sure my vet is as 'up to date' on the various insulin Mfg's and he's only been used for the past 3 yrs when Harley & Davidson get their annual shots. I have no history with him since I just moved to the Niagara area a few years ago and I'll be making some calls tomorrow to other vets and see what they say. My vet is well received in this area, but perhaps a bit closed minded when it comes to alternatives.

This has been a GREAT learning curve and fast and the information received on this site is priceless!!!

Thanks and I'll update you shortly.

Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Update:

She bought the relion confirm and got a test today - 22 I think it was (mmol/L). Thats down from 28 at the vets but obviously still way too high. The dry is probably still in his system at this point though.

Also picked up ketone strips.

She also picked up a variety of LC FF and Friskies

She spoke to her vet who said he does know Lantus but doesn't like it as much because it doesn't give a flat curve like it does in humans, and because it isn't officially sanctioned for use in cats. However he did propose PZI. He was fine with her home testing for BG and ketones - he said he doesn't normally recommend home blood testing as it freaks people out. (interesting.)

She is planning to test diet control for a couple of days and meanwhile will discuss PZI with her vet

Wendy
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Just to correct my Vet's comments on home testing..........he said most don't like to do it because it's not comfortable for them, but certainly feels it is useful if the owners can do it. Maybe the small town I live in is not as 'up to date' as the bigger cities which is why he prmotes the Caninsulin? Not sure, and only a few weeks ago did he hay that PZI was appoved (maybe not those words exactly) and he will have it on Friday...........Davidson is changing as he's not peeing nearly as much as he waqs before changing to wet food and the pee is now in roundish balls and not oblong shapes. As well, while on dry and peeing tons he got his feet all wet and the litter stuck to it, then dripped all over the floor and up the stairs - I washed the floors yesterday when he was at the vet for the day getting tested, and since 6pm last night and now there is no dripping, no mess and in fact he harldy drank any water from his bowl (yes, understand wet food has lots of water) and seems like he feels heavier. Both he and Harley love the Fancy Feast and no problem changing over.........I'm donating the 25 lbs of dry food to the local shelter tomorrow.

Question........since they were on dry food for 11.5 yrs how much wet should I give them with weights at 11 and 14 lbs. Can the wet stay out all night if they don't finish it, or will it go rancid?

Thanks
Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

I routinely leave the food out 12 hours for the civvies.

Avoid a location near the refrigerator exhaust as it dries the food out and blows the smell around.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Leaving the wet food out all night is fine, it won't go bad overnight. If it seems to dry out too much, you can try adding about a tablespoon of water to the canned food, stir to mix, and the extra water keeps the food moister longer. Think applesauce consistency on the food.

How much to feed? Hard to say. My cats eat around 0.5 ounces a day per pound of body weight. That means my 7 pound civie Delta gets 4-5 ounces, 12 pound Monet gets 6 ounces and 10.5 pound Wink eats 6 ounces. You'll notice that Wink and Monet get the same amount of food a day, even though their weights are different. I've found that these amounts help them to maintain their body weights so it's what I feed. ECID.

My 3 kitties get weighed twice a week, average the weights and I adjust food intake up or down as needed. Like right now, Wink seems to need a tiny bit more food each day, about a teaspoon or 2 to keep him at his ideal weight.

You may have to experiment a little to find the correct amounts of food for your 2 kitties, Davidson and Harley.

This body condition scoring chart may also help you to determine if their current weights are good for them or not.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

UPDATE:

Okay, big changes for Davidson since putting on wet food only Jan 7th - 6pm...........firstly no more lakes in the litter box and the water bowl remains 75% full as it always did before. The pee isn't rolling down his legs, or he's not stepping in it to make unsightly drip marks all along the floor and up the stairs - in fact since cleaning up while he was at the vet all day Tuesday there isn't a drop any where.

I have the data from the Vet and they did the 'curve' and here are the numbers from Jan 7 day at the vet:

3 units of Caninsulin given at 9:45am
BG - 12pm is 30.3
BG - 2:30 is 24.3
BG - 4:30 is 24.1
BG - 5:30 is 25.2

Got home and fed Fancy feast wet at 6:30pm, then again in the morning on Jan 8th and then went to get the ReliOn stuff to test at home. I've been home testing his BG levels since and here's what I have so far:

Jan 8:
BG 5:15pm is 22.38
BG 10pm is 15

Jan 9:
BG 6am is 18 before feeding
BG 8:45am is 18.22
BG 4:35pm is 18.94

Just fed him at 5:30 and will do another test, but not sure when to do this one - any help as to how long after feeding for the BG testing?

BETTER NEWS:

Changing Vets as did some calling to Canadian Vets in my area, read lots and decided to buy Lantus, 1500ml in the 5 pen thingy, with the new Accu-Chek tester and all the goodies - forgot the scale so that's tomorrows job. I'm taking back the Caninsulin and feel my Vet (only used him a few times for yearly vaccines since moving here) is too 'old school' and my interest is with Davidson and I'm not comfortable based on what I hear on THIS FORUM and speaking to Wendy and other people thru friends who have first hand experience with their pets and Diabetes.

QUESTION:

I'll go a few more days to make sure the carbs are out of his system and stay on wet for from here on in - but is he still needing to go on insulin or is he okay with diet change and monitoring?? He weights 14.2 lbs last weigh in at Vet which was before the change to wet food and he looks much better so may have put on some weight, I'll know tomorrow. What is the magic number to decide when he should go on insulin?? I have it now and can keep it around but if you think he does not ned it yet and his numbers still can come down then please let me know. There must be a "BG count" that stipulates when to go on insulin from diet monitoring.

THANKS TO EVERYONE for the valuable input..........this is REALLY GREAT!!

Shawna, Davidson and Harley too
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Reference ranges for decision making from an old post by BJM.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]

So, if the BG levels remain above 11.1 mmol/L, then it's time to get your cat started on insulin.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

The 18 is still high. We want him between 2.8 and 7.2. But we don't advise newbies shoot under 11.1 so if he goes under that and stays there we might try food longer. If he doesn't go under 11.1 then you would need to start insulin. But let's see if he keeps dropping.

Anyway with lantus you can get a pack of pens for &100 at loblaws or costco. The pens last longer since you only "open" one at a time and they don't break easy. However you don't want the syringe tips they come with, those aren't accurate enough for cats. You want proper u100 insulin syringes ie the bd ultra fine Ii 3/10 cc syringes.

To help his pancreas in the meanwhile I would feed him mini meals through the day instead of two large meals. Large meals can stress the pancreas. Some people here use a timed feeder if not home or freeze the food and leave it to defrost.
Wendy
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Thanks but being new on this (2 days) all the terminology is garbled to me and with his numbers that high I understand to start the insulin. However, 2 days ago he was at 29+ and I put him on wet food and there is a huge drop. So, should I wait a couple days to see if he drops further or is the gap too big? I have no idea since it's all foreign to me.

I now see Wendy's response but they sold me the pen type and the needles are separate. I had asked for that U100 and they said the pens were easiest. I think I am screwed as there is no returning of diabetic stuff, although I just spoke to them and they said call the pharmasist tomorrow and they should be able to do something for me.

Here is what I bought - is this the right product

Lantus 100 U/mL 5 x 3 mL SoloStar injection pens
ultra fine pen needles 4mm 32G

Assuming it's correct or I replace it - how many units do I give him to start off with?

Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

The pens are good. Return the needles as they aren't accurate enough for cats.you want proper syringes.

What is his ideal weight do you think? We base starting dose on that.

Wendy
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

It is not that the pen and needle are inaccurate it is that the pen w/needle only doses in 1 unit increments. Most cats need finer dosing like 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 units.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

OKAY - GOT ALL THE INFO FROM WENDY..............now understand about the dose volume, etc. Will go get new syringes tomorrow.

SORRY for all the questions, but it's very overwhelming when you have no idea about it and the learning curve is fast and steep.

I think his ideal weight is between 14-15 lbs.........he looks good now (maybe still looks big, but he's a huge cat with big paws and head, haha)

Now if any of you need info on Shipping, Motorcycle racing, Renovating, etc. I can certainly give some professional advise - LOL, this Diabetis I'm worse then a beginner!
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

:)

Ok so starting dose calculation is shown on this page - read it and try and understand the best you can. Over time it will become more clear. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581. Ask questions!

ie
Using a weight based formula for determining a starting dose of Lantus or Levemir when following the Tight Regulation Protocol:the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight
Click to expand...

Based on 14.5lbs, that rounds out to 1.5 units twice a day. But like I said, lets try food for now.

Did you test for ketones today? Or yesterday? Thats important too since his BG is high!!

let us know

Wendy
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

I did not test for keytones as was out most of the day and when here didn't catch him going to pee. Will try for tomorrow
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

SORRY for all the questions, but it's very overwhelming when you have no idea about it and the learning curve is fast and steep.
Click to expand...
Oh hey, never apologize for asking all the questions you need to. Please ask for clarification if we ever suggest something and you don't understand. We sometimes don't give enough information but on the other hand don't want to overwhelm you when you are new to this sugardance.

It will all come in time.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

GECKO said:
... he's a huge cat with big paws and head...
Click to expand...

We'll want to keep a close eye on how he responds to insulin. Some cats with large paws and head turn out to have a medical condition causing the diabetes. We'll know better once he is on insulin and we see how he does with it.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

He's had most of the blood work done now and he's fine other then the high BG and just a big boy, should have called him BamBam. Haven't done the keytone test yet as his pee habits are in the middle of the night and now that he isn't peeing all the time I haven't even seen him go down to the litter boxes. I'm trying and when I asked the vet about it he said he did not test for that as with his high BG count it will show up positive..........I'll get one soon. I was filling 2 scoop/poop bags from Dollarama (black ones) each day with my 2 cats, however most was from Davidson. Now, 1/2 bag a day if that as seems back to normal as far as peeing goes.

Today at 6:15am the BG is 16.72, yesterday same time was 18.............slowly dropping, and he's like his old self.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

There are specific tests run for these medical conditions (acromegaly, IAA) that generally are sent out t0 speciality labs. You don't run these until and unless there are indicators of significant insulin resistance. We start thinking about them at insulin doses around 5 units or so.

p.s. it is ketones, no 'y'. These form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories and high levels may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

All looking good today and did a ketone test and it's negative.

Weight 6.4 kgs or 14.12 lbs
BG today is 16.72 at 6:15am, 20.1 at 7:30 am taken 1 hr after food, but he was stressed as I woke him up and carried him and he thought he was going to the vets since he was crying and not happy.

I now have the correct syringes and everything for the start of insulin which I will start on Wed which is one week after switching to wet food only. His pee and drinking is as normal as Harley's so seems like that is under control.

** I am switching Vets here to one that was recommended by several friends, I spoke with them and they are well versed in Feline Diabetes and I'm taking Davidson there on Wed morning for a check up and consultation since he will be looking after both H&D from now on - plus they are also a mobile vet and will come to the house which is less stressful on the Guys (H&D).

Do you think I should still give 4xdaily BG test as he's had lots now and maybe just every other day to let his ears relax a bit?

The new vet has been great spending lots of time with me on the phone and I will take all my records and insulin there and administer the first needle with the Vet so I do it right since it's all new to me

THANKS

Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

BG today is 16.72 at 6:15am, 20.1 at 7:30 am taken 1 hr after food,
Click to expand...
So BG's were AMBG 300 and then 362 at +1.25 in our more familiar format (mg d/L ). Since most of us are in the US, we sure would appreciate it if you could give us the numbers in both formats. You simply multiple your number by 18.

AMBG means the morning blood glucose test, no insulin being given.
AMPS means the morning blood glucose test, giving insulin.
PMPS means the evening blood glucose test, giving insulin.

Great news on finding a new vet that seems to know more about feline diabetes!

Looks like Davidson (aka BamBam ;-) ) will need to start up on insulin. It will help if you can continue to test until you start the insulin. By continuing to test, you get more proficient at the testing and Davidson comes to see it as part of his daily routine and takes the testing in stride.

A tiny dab of triple antibiotic ointment with pain relief, the ointment version not the cream one, can help to relieve the sting of the ear pokes and helps to heal the ears. Putting a bit of pressure on the poke spot on the ears after the poke, helps to stop the blood flow and prevent bruising.

If you would set up a spreadsheet, directions here, that would really help to track Davidson's progress. You'll need to make the SS 'share with anyone with the link' to give us read only access. Some information in your user control panel, profile tab, edit signature would also be helpful. You can see the type of information that is helpful in my signature.

Sounds like some of the clinical symptoms, the peeing and drinking are already showing signs of improvement. Here's hoping for continued improvement.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

I will work on the SS this weekend and signature.............PLEASE be patient with me as I'm Dyslexic (yes, I can read perfectly) and don't always interpret what you write exactly how you mean it, even when re-reading. Therefore, I like to talk on the phone versus emailing (do the same to my clients for my company) and I know this is not always possible. For that reason you will all see repeated questions, info, etc and it's a way that "I" make sure I am doing things correctly and that "I" understand and interpret what you are saying in your posts. Figuring out what you are saying it harder then giving the needles ;-) so please when posting your instructions try to simplify them as I don't want to make any errors. For that reason I'm going to the new vet and we already spent an hour on the phone with no committments so that's a good sign.

I bought the cream pain poly as didn't know the difference, but he doesn't seem to mind and purrs all the way thru the test.

Wendy has been MOST helpful and if there is anyone on here in the Niagara Region of Ontario please PM me so that perhaps we can exchange phone numbers as that would be very helpful in the early stages. It's very exhausting as you all know, and trying to read, re-read and re-re-read all the printed matter is too much for my to absorb at once.........so I have to take it a bit slower.

Okay, will continue the BG test until I see the Vet Wed and HOW OFTEN should they be done? Our schedules are different then yours i.e. they eat at 6am latest, and again at 6pm.........so is it important to do the BG test before feeding and one hour after feeding? What about mid day?

RE FEEDING AMT: at 14.12 lbs (stable) and using 5.5oz or 3 oz cans of wet food what do I give him at each feeding? Been giving him 1 - 5.5 oz can twce a day FYI
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 11.1 (200) but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle when you can - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 2.8).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Spreadsheet - can you go here and set up an account with Google docs? https://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount. Then we can work on getting the spreadsheet that I sent you uploaded into there.

Food - many mini meals through the day are better for his pancreas. I would feed him a more often but smaller meals per day so he isn't eating big meals. This may help bring his numbers down more.

Wendy
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

PLEASE be patient with me as I'm Dyslexic (yes, I can read perfectly) and don't always interpret what you write exactly how you mean it, even when re-reading.
Click to expand...
Of course we will pull on our patience pants and go slower with you as needed. I'm partial to the color blue, so here are some blue patience pants for me.

Never be afraid or shy about asking for clarification or simplification. Sometimes, we get too wordy. ;-)

The triple antibiotic cream version soaks into the fur, and can make it harder to get that blood drop to bead up. It's certainly ok to keep using it if you are not having a problem getting the blood.

We understand on the different time schedules. It's why we use the AMPS/AMBG, PMPS/PMBG and + hour terminology. It presents all the data in an easy to understand format, not dependent on specific times or time zones being specified.
 

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Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Right now, I'm not seeing much difference in the numbers. I don't really see any food effect at +1. That variance could all be meter variance, within the +/- 20% variance that meters are allowed to have.

I think some good times for you to test would be:

1. AMBG/PMBG - morning and evening tests before you feed. Roughly 12 hours apart, try for consistency on the times if you can.
2. +3 to +4 hours later, if your life responsibilities and schedule permits. This may give us an idea if the pancreas is working and producing some of it's own insulin.

So how about this schedule?
AMBG
+3 or +4 (vary this time a bit on different days maybe a +3 one day, a +4 the next day)
PMBG
+3 or +4

Would that work for you?
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

oh oh, I think I'm doing the poly wrong.........I prick his ear, take the blood sample and then put the poli on. Seem like I should be doing poli first which is why you say the blood won't go thru...........funny and make me laugh - see Dyslexics do things backwards. :mrgreen: There is no bruising, so he's fine.

The initial BG from the Vet were all high mid 20's to 30's and I did post them initially. Now they are at 15-19 and will continue to take them as noted. Here are his readings from Jan 7th Vet day

3 units of Caninsulin given at 9:45am
BG - 12pm is 30.3
BG - 2:30 is 24.3
BG - 4:30 is 24.1
BG - 5:30 is 25.2

Deb..........that scedule will work, since I work from home (seme retired) and can be flexible oh, I like PINK, do you have pink pants?

If I do the test at 6am, can I feed him right away or have to wait? I'll give him 3oz per feeding a few times per day as Wendy suggests.

Oh, Harley thinks it's great as he gets wet food too! Should I still give Harley 'normal" Temptations treats - he was clear of everything as I did blood work on him to make sure.

Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Hi Shawna!

oh oh, I think I'm doing the poly wrong.........I prick his ear, take the blood sample and then put the poli on. Seem like I should be doing poli first which is why you say the blood won't go thru
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People do it both ways with applying the polysporin. Some do it before to numb the ear, some do it after to take away the sting of the poke. Your choice, as either way works fine. I don't even bother with the antibiotic ointment with pain relief any more, but then, Wink only needs 1 poke a week or so, since he is OTJ (off-the-juice, in remission, diet controlled).

I like PINK, do you have pink pants?
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Oh yes, I have a vast lending closet of patience pants for people to borrow. Here are the pink ones you requested. Hope you like hot pink! ;-)

If I do the test at 6am, can I feed him right away or have to wait
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You will usually be able to feed Davidson right after you test. There are always exceptions to the rules, such as if Davidson is much lower than normal. In that case, stall, which means hold off on food and retest in 20-30 minutes, to see if the BG's are rising or falling. Post here for help in a situation like that.

Should I still give Harley 'normal" Temptations treats
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Since Harley is not diabetic, you can still give him the normal Temptations treats, just make sure that Davidson doesn't steal them. I fed my civies (non-diabetic cats) Monet and Delta the high carb treats until they ran out, then switched all my 3 cats to the pure protein treats. It just made it easier, not having to remember who gets what. Switched my civies to low carb canned food when Wink joined me a year ago. Our 1 year anniversary is coming up next Friday!
 

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Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Deb..........I LOVE THE PINK!!

With Harley my Civies Guy...........I'm feeding him all wet food now too - is that okay or does he need some dry? H&D don't steal from eachother as that would make them crimanals and they are not tough guys like their name dictates, but they do like their mom's bike. Oh, Harley is ADHD too, my last VEt said it's hereditary :lol: :lol:
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

With Harley my Civies Guy...........I'm feeding him all wet food now too - is that okay or does he need some dry?
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The low carb wet food is perfectly fine for all your kitties, including Harley. If he likes it, I'd keep feeding him the canned food. It's all my 3 cats get fed now, for the last year. Well, they get a few low carb pure protein treats like Halo Liv-a-little freeze dried chicken or Pure Bites freeze dried chicken.

This vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson, gives a good explanation as to why wet food is better for our cats. She explains it better than I can. Here is a link to her article. Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics. She is the vet who spent countless hours contacting the food manufacturers and put together this food chart which we rely on to find appropriate low carb choices for our diabetic kitties. It lists most of the canned/wet foods available in the US. She explains why cats don't need dry food, don't need many carbs, and why water intake is so important.

The Wellness foods are on there, on page 22. Look for foods that are <10% carbs in the 3rd column of numbers.
H&D don't steal from eachother as that would make them crimanals and they are not tough guys like their name dictates, but they do like their mom's bike.
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Your very lucky! I have to guard Wink's food dish, so the other 2 cats don't steal his food. My civie Monet, will stand off to the side, reach has paw out and start pulling Wink's food dish towards him. :o :shock: :o

It took me about 6 weeks to convince my foster sugarcat Wink that wet food was edible. ohmygod_smile Now, he loves it!

The vet and shelter had him on high carb dry food, the Hill's W/d in fact. Didn't take long after switching him off that high carb food to the low carb Fancy Feast pate style and Friskies pate style before he went into remission.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Shawna wanted to know how to add an avatar to her user control panel profile, so we could see a picture of Davidson. Here are the AVATAR instructions, from over in the Tech Support Forum. Third post down has a step by step guide to getting a picture small enough to use as an avatar and the steps to get the picture in your User control panel profile.

We also talked about having a hypo toolkit ready, and printing out these instructions for managing a hypoglycemic episode, in case Davidson goes too low after he starts his insulin next week.

Here is a list of items for the hypo toolkit.
IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - YOUR HYPO KIT

Put together NOW the following items and put in an easily accessible place!

● Phone number of your vet
● Phone number, address and map/directions to your nearest emergency vet (or phone number of the cab company and some cash/credit card)
● Karo syrup, honey or corn syrup
● High carb canned food with gravy – 2-3 cans (like Fancy Feast gravy lovers foods)
● Some favourite treats
● Spare pack of 25 blood glucose strips
● Coffee for you ;)

Like the boy scouts, it's good to be prepared.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Deb was great in the "encouragement department" as is Wendy and nice to talk about our cats histories...........I'm preparing the emergency kit today in hopes I never need it and will dig out some handsome shots of Davidson for my Avatar.

UPDATE on BG

Jan 10th
BGPM 5:15 - 19.72 or 354.96
BGPM 6:53 - 19.11 or 343.98

Today's BG counts are:

6:45am - 17.88 or 321.84
8:50am - 14.22 or 255.96
** do we round the numbers up or down?? Since this is an American site should I just show the BG in 'your' numbers (sorry, don't know what they are called) or show both since Wendy and others like me are Canadians??

In reading the AAHA Diabetes Guidelines it states under syringes NOT to use the short ones, yet I've been told to use short ones which I purchased..........any comments please?

Today is reading up day on all the things I have to learn..........

Making progress...........Avatar and Signature added

Rgds
Shawna & Davidson who also THANKS you............he's back to himself other then high BG levels for now.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

When you get your spreadsheet going, choose the World version. It will let us go back and forth from US to Canadian numbers easily. Put your values in and then we can choose the US sheet to see them.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Some of prefer short needles: some of us prefer long.

I prefer short needles because I am less likely to go all the way through the tent and out the other side, plus it is a smidge less easy to bend.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

HELP on template

I downloaded it all okay and need some help on inputting the numbers, still not on insulin but doing BG levels 4xday. When I start insulin it will be at 9am and 9pm, so if I want to insert my BG results and I haven't done any after 9pm do I record these numbers the day before?

I.E.

Jan 8th - BG at 5pm on SS mark under +8
BG at 10pm on SS mark under +1

Jan 9th - BG at 6am, so where do I mark that? Do I put the reading on Jan 8th under PMBG +9???

I'm ready to insert the data and publish but want to make sure it's correct and I understand it right as most days I will get 2 reading before 9am (preshot) as we are up before 6am and he eats right away which means a preshot at 6am, then another an hour later...........and when I give the insulin (shot) then that will always be at 9

Question: can I feed him before the insulin as for 12 yrs he is used to eatting when we get up and sometimes that is before 5am. However with the insulin I have to time it with my lifestyle and think 9am and 9pm will work best


Thanks
Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Jan 8th - BG at 5pm on SS mark under +8
BG at 10pm on SS mark under +1

Jan 9th - BG at 6am, so where do I mark that? Do I put the reading on Jan 8th under PMBG +9???
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Yes, you've got it correctly. The BG test on 1/9 at 6am is still part of your previous 12 hour cycle, so it goes under 1/8, after the PMPS in the +9 column.

Trying to generalize,here are some examples.

Put your morning test (9am) in the column labeled AMPS, put 0 in the column labeled U (u=units of insulin), the next reading you are getting after the morning test, goes in the closest hour column. For example, if the test was 2 hours after the am test, it goes in the +2 column, if 4 hours later, that would be +4 (4 hours after your morning test time).

Your evening test (9pm test) goes in the column labeled PMPS, put 0 in the column labeld U after that since you are not using insulin yet. Any subsequent test readings go in the apppropriate hour column. So a test taken 2 hours after your evening test, ( 11pm), goes in the +2 column.

You'll be thinking in 12 hour cycles in no time and talking in our + hour format before you know it!
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

My chart is filled in and published to the web..........can someone tell me if it shows up and if they can access it. Never did this before, all new to me and I think I entered the counts correctly. FYI - no insulin yet, and most BG's were done between 6-8am and 4-8pm and I was using 9/9 as my shot time as that's what it will be next week once on Lantus.

But I think I messed up with the AM and PM areas to put them in............hmmmm. Also I used the World SS but inserted the numbers the US uses, nto Canadian. I can change it around if you let me know what I did wrong.

Rgds
Shawna
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Now, you need to do the steps to link the google spreadsheet into your user control panel signature. I don't see a link in your signature to the SS yet, but you do have some other information in your signature I can see at the end of your posts.
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

okay, figured out the SS and what I did wrong............please let me know if it looks okay.

How often do we update this - daily, each time we do a BG?
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

seems to be working...........just need to insure I am entering the BG's in the proper column each day as per the schedule I am on. Thanks for the pointers..............
 
Re: New here and new to Diabetes

Yes, I have read only access to your spreadsheet now. Sometimes we'll just call it the SS.

Not sure you have the numbers in the right columns. Where are your AMBG and PMBG readings? The AMBG goes in the AMPS column and PMBG goes in the PMPS column for now. Yeah, I know, the SS isn't perfectly labeled for someone like you that is not giving any insulin yet.

How often do we update this - daily, each time we do a BG?
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Please update at least daily. An update each time you get a BG would be good, especially at the beginning when you start the insulin.

We had another new member yesterday with a cat that on the very first dose of insulin went from a 309 to a 67. That's quite a drop, so we asked the person to test a bit more after the second shot that evening, in case the numbers dropped really low again. Not in the danger zone, but wanted people to keep an eye out just in case and wanted to keep this other kitty safe.
 
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