New here and completely confused

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melvin

melvin

Member Since 2017
Hey All! My name is Eric and my cat's name is Melvin. He is an 8 year old teacup himalayan (not overweight). I noticed about a month ago he was drinking and urinating more than I have ever seen. Googled it and after seeing the results it could be, I took him to the vet. They did full blood work and let me know the next day it is diabetes. They wanted to change his diet for the first week to a low carb. We did that, but he was still in the 400s. Started him on 2u of Vetsulin every 12 hours. On the days I couldn't get him to eat before the insulin they advised me to not give it to him. I missed a couple of mornings due to him not eating.

I brought him back to the vet for another reading (I know now I can do this at home) and he was in the high 500s. Vet advised to put him on 3u twice a day for the next few days to see what happens. He started acting like him normal self again! It was great seeing him like this. Friday morning he ate his fancy feast classic and I gave him his 3u. 2 hours after he couldn't stand, he couldn't do anything and I am pretty sure he was in a hypoglycemia state. I put some maple syrup on his gums and within a few minutes he was okay. Vet advised to drop the dosage to 2u after this (without even getting a reading). Friday night I gave him 2u after he ate and he just slept all night. Gave him 2u twice yesterday after his meals and now he's breathing hard and not doing much at all. I skipped his insulin this morning due to not eating but I am unsure of what to do now.

He's responsive, but he just wants to lay down and not do much. His breathing seems to be a little harder and faster and I looked this up and it may be low blood pressure. I gave him a little maple syrup and he seems to be doing better, but I am so confused.

Is it time for me to start doing home level tests? I am completely new to this. I am terrified of using the at home meters (not sure why). I am unsure of what his insulin should be for what his levels are (if I do the readings myself).

Please help. I am sure this post is all over the place and I apologize.
 
Hi Eric--

Oh, my.

Gotta say, with those symptoms, I would take Melvin to a vet to get checked out-- it will probably be an emergency vet as it is Sunday, but I don't think I'd wait until tomorrow. The fast, labored breathing does sound like heart/blood pressure issues. I don't have any experience with that myself, perhaps others here can tell you more and whether it can wait until tomorrow, but I'd be pretty worried and want to get it checked out asap if it were my cat.

We can definitely help with the feline diabetes treatment, once you get there, but I'm not sure that's the primary issue right now-- he's had no insulin since last night, correct? but he's having the breathing symptoms today? It's interesting that he seemed to perk up after the maple syrup this morning, but it seems unlikely that it's a low blood glucose issue more than 12hrs post-shot (but, please don't give any more insulin until you have started home testing-- it definitely sounds like he was getting too much!) How is his appetite today in general?

Perhaps others can weigh in with more specific suggestions regarding the breathing issues, I'm sorry I can't be more help. :bighug::bighug: to you and your Melvin, I hope he is feeling better soon!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Hi Eric--

Oh, my.

Gotta say, with those symptoms, I would take Melvin to a vet to get checked out-- it will probably be an emergency vet as it is Sunday, but I don't think I'd wait until tomorrow. The fast, labored breathing does sound like heart/blood pressure issues. I don't have any experience with that myself, perhaps others here can tell you more and whether it can wait until tomorrow, but I'd be pretty worried and want to get it checked out asap if it were my cat.

We can definitely help with the feline diabetes treatment, once you get there, but I'm not sure that's the primary issue right now-- he's had no insulin since last night, correct? but he's having the breathing symptoms today? It's interesting that he seemed to perk up after the maple syrup this morning, but it seems unlikely that it's a low blood glucose issue more than 12hrs post-shot (but, please don't give any more insulin until you have started home testing-- it definitely sounds like he was getting too much!) How is his appetite today in general?

Perhaps others can weigh in with more specific suggestions regarding the breathing issues, I'm sorry I can't be more help. :bighug::bighug: to you and your Melvin, I hope he is feeling better soon!
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Thank you for your reply. Yea, the breathing is starting to worry me. He hasn't eat much other than a small amount of royalcain dry food and a couple of treats (to try and induce him to eat), but it's not working.
 
Ah, I see a note that he wasn't eating this morning so you skipped insulin. Definitely time for a vet visit.

I've also been thinking a bit more about his symptoms this morning, particularly the response to maple syrup, and wondering if it's possible that he is actually having a hypo event. If Melvin has been getting too much insulin for a while and has been having frequent (unnoticed) hypo events, the counter-regulatory mechanisms that have been keeping him safe (basically, liver dumping out glucose to raise BG in response to hypo) may have been exhausted by this morning, so I guess it's possible that he is in a hypo state right now. Try the maple syrup again (since he's not eating) to see if it perks him up, but yes, vet.

No matter what, I think he needs to go to a vet-- even if it is hypo, it's a symptomatic one and you are not home-testing yet, so it's not something we'd recommend trying to treat at home.
 
What would the proper dosage of insulin be for that level? I do not trust this animal clinic vet as she keeps trying to get me to test for stuff that's not related and I've already tested on Wednesday.
 
melvin said:
What would the proper dosage of insulin be for that level? I do not trust this animal clinic vet as she keeps trying to get me to test for stuff that's not related and I've already tested on Wednesday.
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Did they do a blood pressure test? They put a little cuff on the back leg, just like human Dr's.

My suggestion is go to Walmart. Pick up a relion micro meter, extra test strips, 28 gauge lancets, and some neosporin ointment. Start at square 1. You are going to have to start testing at home for sure. Shooting blind is dangerous and leaving too many questions about what is going on.
 
What do they want you to test for? On the one hand, I find the hard breathing to be a very worrying sign and would want them to test for any serious conditions that might be indicated; on the other hand (I am cynical), not all ER vet clinics take a, shall we say, minimalist approach to ordering expensive tests.

As Janet says, we can help with the blood glucose testing aspects of things, you don't need the ER vet (or your regular vet) for that, I'm just worried about other issues...

For anyone who is watching this thread, could the breathing just be caused by the high BG???? I haven't heard of that happening, but I'm throwing that out there just in case someone has knowledge of such a thing.
 
I second the ketone test, especially with the skipped shot and inappetance this morning. More on ketones and ketoacidosis here-- general testing is something else you can easily do at home, but since ketones are an automatic vet visit and he's already there, it'd be good to get a reading now.
 
Ack. Just re-read the link I sent, and breathing very fast is on the list of symptoms.

Do NOT leave the ER without a ketone test, please!!!!! If it's this, it could get very serious, very fast.
 
His breathing has seemed to level out. Vet said it was probably due to the missed insulin and not eating on top of stress. Plus I didn't help with the situation with the syrup (due to thinking it was like last time with the same symptoms. I am so bad at this. :\

I think its time to do home testing like you all have mentioned so I can get him regulated and the proper dosage in him every time.
 
melvin said:
His breathing has seemed to level out. Vet said it was probably due to the missed insulin and not eating on top of stress. Plus I didn't help with the situation with the syrup (due to thinking it was like last time with the same symptoms. I am so bad at this. :\

I think its time to do home testing like you all have mentioned so I can get him regulated and the proper dosage in him every time.
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So glad to hear that the breathing has leveled out and the vet seems to think it's minor.

Do not beat yourself up-- you just didn't have information to go on about the blood sugar, and if it had been a hypo, the syrup could have saved his life (as it probably did on the other hypo you witnessed).

We can totally help with the home testing-- it's a lot easier than you are probably thinking now, once you get going with it, and it really is the best way to keep Melvin safe while administering insulin. After a little while, you won't be able to believe that you were shooting insulin without doing it!
 
Also, the Vet increased by 1 whole unit where as on here it is recommended increasing by 0.25U or 0.5. Somewhere in between 2 - 3U could have been his ideal dose ;). Home testing is the best tool in our FD kitty care belt!

Sieden just made and posted a video today on the Main Health forum showing how to do a BG test on her kitty. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...to-get-a-blood-sample-starring-peanut.175369/

I'm sure most of us would go crazy if we continually administered insulin and did not have a way to check our baby's BG numbers. We would be Hawk like 24/7 :cat:. I was that way when I first started :)

To help keep track of your numbers, we use spreadsheets: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
 
My moms cat Toby has fast breathing issues but he is not diabetic. Not to scare you but her cat has a heart condition.
Smoky has also had fast breathing issues. Once he fell off the back of a chair and he is very underweight so it knocked the wind out of him, but luckily the fast breathing resolved itself. The one other time was due to high BG's over 600 for an extended period of time. He improved a great deal once I switched him from vetsulin to prozinc.

Smokys original vet also increased him a whole unit at a time. I'm so glad I found this site and the folks on here helped me thru a hypo episode due to my vet putting him on too high of a starting dose.
 
Not insulin at the animal hospital yesterday. They advised to give him one when I got home and I did. His breathing issues perked back up late last night and I laid with him all night until 7am and brought him into my normal vet. They don't think he is accepting the Vetsulin. They are keeping him and have him on an IV and checking his levels every 2 hours and giving him the proper dosage of insulin. They said they would call me every couple of hours to give me an update. I am so upset. :(
 
Oh, poor little guy!

Some people have reported that Vetsulin doesn't seem to "agree with" their cat-- they've noted behavioral declines during the max action of the shot and that kind of thing, with their cats just seeming miserable on this particular insulin.

If they give you a choice of alternate insulins to try, Lantus is one that seems to work well for a lot of cats, and we have a lot of very experienced users on this site, so there'd be tons of help to get Melvin feeling better. Levemir is less common, but similar enough to Lantus that there is a single forum for all the "L" insulin users. ProZinc is another insulin that seems to do well with cats, and we have a smaller, but active, community of ProZinc users here too.

I think it's good that he's at your regular vet, who knows him, and is getting a lot of attention today. Hopefully they will get this figured out!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Oh, poor little guy!

Some people have reported that Vetsulin doesn't seem to "agree with" their cat-- they've noted behavioral declines during the max action of the shot and that kind of thing, with their cats just seeming miserable on this particular insulin.

If they give you a choice of alternate insulins to try, Lantus is one that seems to work well for a lot of cats, and we have a lot of very experienced users on this site, so there'd be tons of help to get Melvin feeling better. Levemir is less common, but similar enough to Lantus that there is a single forum for all the "L" insulin users. ProZinc is another insulin that seems to do well with cats, and we have a smaller, but active, community of ProZinc users here too.

I think it's good that he's at your regular vet, who knows him, and is getting a lot of attention today. Hopefully they will get this figured out!
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I sure hope so! The Vet is going to change his insulin to ProZinc today while he is there. He stated it would be a little more expensive than the Vetsulin, but that doesn't matter as long as it works.
 
Received a call from the vet and its good news so far. They have him on fluids and a catheter in. They started him on ProZinc and he's already in the high 300s from 546 this morning. The vet said he's so much more alert. His breathing has settled and is seeing great signs already after such a short time. Next call will be in an hour or two. This is such a huge relief. Hoping to see improvements the rest of the way. Thank you again!
 
melvin said:
Not insulin at the animal hospital yesterday. They advised to give him one when I got home and I did. His breathing issues perked back up late last night and I laid with him all night until 7am and brought him into my normal vet. They don't think he is accepting the Vetsulin. They are keeping him and have him on an IV and checking his levels every 2 hours and giving him the proper dosage of insulin. They said they would call me every couple of hours to give me an update. I am so upset. :(
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You wouldn't happen to know if he's allergic to pork, would you?
 
Yong said:
You wouldn't happen to know if he's allergic to pork, would you?
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Not that I know of, sorry!

And I was mistaken. He is currently on just fast acting insulin? Not sure what that means, but the vet is using it to get his levels down and he is finally in the 200s!! Vet said he wants to sit down with me and figure out what insulin will work for him. He's trying to get him to eat now.
 
Pics as requested. :)

Sorry if they are large.

Sleeping in his water bowl as a kitten. He's not the brightest.
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My beer holder sometimes
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He was so tiny as a kitten.
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Always looks grumpy, but the nicest cat I have ever met/owned.
WPgCURu.jpg
 
melvin said:
Melvin also made it on "animals that look like celebrities" on the Jay Leno show. Just his picture, not actually on the show.

F4k8oGr.jpg
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I saw that Jay Leno!! Lol coolbeans. He is adorable. And you meant that you' ve ever been 'owned by' its ok we get it
 
I'm glad to hear that Melvin is doing better. I hope that the ProZinc is a match and that you can start home testing when he gets home. Set up your spreadsheet while you wait and then you'll be ready for everyone to help you once he gets there. You can get all of the testing supplies at Wal-Mart, the Relion Confirm is what I use and you can buy the lancets and test strips for it too. I want to say that the machine is about 15.00 to 20.00 then a box of lancets that will last you forever is about 10.00 and a box of 50 test strips is 25.00 or you can just buy a box of 100 strips for 35.00 which is better because you will go through that many so just go ahead and get the 100. You DO NOT need the AlphaTrak so don't waste your money.
 
Sieden said:
I'm glad to hear that Melvin is doing better. I hope that the ProZinc is a match and that you can start home testing when he gets home. Set up your spreadsheet while you wait and then you'll be ready for everyone to help you once he gets there. You can get all of the testing supplies at Wal-Mart, the Relion Confirm is what I use and you can buy the lancets and test strips for it too. I want to say that the machine is about 15.00 to 20.00 then a box of lancets that will last you forever is about 10.00 and a box of 50 test strips is 25.00 or you can just buy a box of 100 strips for 35.00 which is better because you will go through that many so just go ahead and get the 100. You DO NOT need the AlphaTrak so don't waste your money.
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Thank you! I plan on going to walmart this afternoon or tomorrow to get this.

How much insulin do I know to give him once I get his levels?
 
melvin said:
Thank you! I plan on going to walmart this afternoon or tomorrow to get this.

How much insulin do I know to give him once I get his levels?
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The vet will prescribe a dose. Sometimes they start at too high a dose so I suggest you post here for feedback. Also let us know what insulin because they have different characteristics and we can give advice.

Give some thought to setting up the spreadsheet we use here. It's what we look at first when we offer feedback.
 
Make sure to get the 28 gauge lancets. Hopefully, the Vet won't start you on too high of a dose. Seems to be an increasing occurrence :mad:. Think he's getting put on Prozinc instead of Vetsulin now :)
 
Sitting at the vet and it's not good. His levels were all over the place and he won't eat. He got his levels to 122 and he wouldn't eat. He put a little food into and his levels went to 395 and now theyre at 225 with no insulin since 12:40pm est.

Vet wants to run more blood work to see if it's pancreatitis. He has a feeling it is since he's not eating and dizzy. Bringing him back into tomorrow morning to see if they can get it controlled. If not, he said by Thursday he wanted to talk options. I know what that means.


Did not want to hear this. :(
 
I can't see everything that your vet is seeing, of course, but you should know: pancreatitis is a manageable condition, and so is feline diabetes. Melvin has had a rough couple weeks, and an extremely rough weekend, no question, but very very few cats can be even close to regulated in that short a time. Dogs, I've heard, are much easier-- perhaps your vet has had a lot of experience with canine diabetes?

The not eating is probably the biggest issue right now. Hoping he perks up a bit once he gets home to more comfortable surroundings, and that you get some good news from the bloodwork. :bighug::bighug:
 
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