new here and at a total loss

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thanks for the reply sorry about the rant i was so angry it took me 4 goes to get the vet to admit i was right and tom was ill he was pulling his fur out they just said it was nerves but i know my tom better than that i had the same when max was ill 2 years ago i am going to look for another vet i dont think they have left me any choice there is no night cover with them also i cant prove it but tom had a hypo on his 2curve with the and the vet said to me we gave him his jab but i had allready done it before we took him up and we told the he had his insulin they dont seem to listern sorry about the pstd i had 2 years of that in 1985/86 not nice took 3 years to find what it was but i cant stand being talked down to i am disabled not brain dead think i would get used to it after 10 years in a chair befor that they looked at me i was 6feet 5 inches the now about 4foot 2 inches i have found a vet with a 24 hour clinc going to have a look on monday its only 5 miles away and i can drive still i have a converted car as long as the kids let me out its like being 12 years old again at times but they take the keys if they dont think i am well enough to go out any way many thanks for the reply take care
gary
 
Hi Gary,

How are things going with yourself and Tom? I'm sorry I didn't get back to you over the weekend. (GP has me on beta blockers at the moment and my brain is even mushier than normal.) I'm very sorry to hear that you've suffered from PTSD, too. :bighug: I can also relate to your frustration at being talked down to. It irritates me at the best of times that certain of the professions use the fact I have an anxiety disorder to treat me as though I had been lobotomized; but when they won't listen to me or take me seriously about my Saoirse it absolutely infuriates me! Grrrrr ... :mad: I can also relate to 'life before' and 'life after'. I had an accident and I truly can't believe how different - how unrecognisable - my life is now as a consequence.

I had similar problems to you with our previous vets when Saoirse started pulling her fur out. "Stress," came the Dx. I thought it was pain causing it, and I was right. Well done you for sticking to your guns. Whereabouts is Tom pulling the fur from?

How did you get on with checking out the 24-hour vet practice?


Mogs
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hi not been on here over the weekend what with 4 children and 10 grand children life gets a bit mad when thay all desend at the same time number 11 due next week
tom was pulling fur from his tummy and his back legs all i got was its over grooming and stress butt i know my cats better than that took 4 goes at the vet to get them to look deeper but i am a stuborn git at the best of time and a total hard case at the worst so i did get my own way and was right
i have not been over to the all night vet yet will get there this week think we may have turned a corner with tom starting to see the old anoying tom back in little bits not seen him for 4 months nice to see him playing not sleeping
i have not managed to do the home testing yet tom does not like his ears touched so i keep rubbing them so he will get used to it the kids all tested there blood glucose though all good
yes i had ptsd the year i left the army kept getting flashbacks to the falklands war in 1982 in did not know what the hell was going on thought i was losing my mind after about 2 years of it at a reunion for the 5 anivesery a friend told me i was not on my own and took me to get help once again i owe that man my life he saved me in ireland in 1984 not a nice place to be then
i try not to think to much about life before 2005 and consentrate on now and the future or i would just lay down and give up not a good idear
i hope all is well with you and yours
gary
 
there was a question i wanted to ask i was reading a post on here secondary monitoring tools about the 5 ps have you read it the first 4 ps fine the one about pooing not sure tom always uses a litter tray even if he is outside he come in to use it always has although he is eating more there is not very much poo in the tray not sure if this is anything or if i am just worrying to much and reading to much in to it any idears many thanks
gary
 
Feline Constipation

When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to
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Add any other text, such as
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hi i have done the signature as you asked i dont know if i have done it right if not please let me know and i will have another go at it not very good with computers bad when you think my eldest is a computer consultant
tom does not seem to be drinking as much as he was just a little worried about how much he is pooing when you see how much he is eating also going to see another vets this afternoon not happy with mine its just a fight to get them to see it my way will let you know how it goes
gary
 
Hello Gary and Tom!
Waving 'Hi' to you from a rather cloudy Surrey.

You obviously care for Tom very much. He is blessed in having you as his friend and caregiver. :bighug:

How did yesterday's vet visit go?
And I'm glad to hear that Tom is eating.
Once you've started hometesting you should be able to transition him to a lower carbohydrate diet that may help his diabetes. But it's important not to do this until you are OK with testing his blood glucose. That's because lowering the carb content of the food can lower the blood glucose, and the insulin dose may then be too much.
Here's a link to some general UK food info that might be useful for you in the near future:
UK Diabetic Cat Food Info (including link to low carb food list)

There are a handful of UK members currently on the forum. And there a couple from Essex, I think. It may be that someone near you could help you learn to hometest. Gonna tag Julie @Julie and Alice to see if she lives anywhere near you....
I see that you are touching Tom's ears to try to get him used to that prior to actually hometesting (good idea - that worked really well for my Bertie!). Are you rewarding him with a little treat or cuddle each time you do that? If they are rewarded cats can soon learn that having their ears touched is a positive thing. ;)

Eliz
 
hi the vet visit did not go that well they dont like home testing so wont be changing to them what is vets problem with home testing i thought it would make there life easyer with more dater to work with from a unstresed cat
i am not toms caregiver i am his human slave he squeeks i come running (if i could run)
still can not get him used to having his ears touched he pulls away if i try to much he will take a swipe at me thats why his nick name is satan claws
i have to pop up to the vets this afternoon to pick up some syringes and will try to have a word with the other vet see how he feels about home testing
the avitar is both my boys toms is the one on the table max is on the chair one of the few i have of them both together
is canisulin posin to humans i only ask because i stuck my self with the needle this morning none went it but not something i ever thought about before just like to know for future reference my hands can be a bit shaky and tom moves the second time its happerned sorry for the poor spelling many thanks
gary
 
i am not toms caregiver i am his human slave
:D Ha-ha! You're in good company here, Gary.

I'm sorry the vet visit didn't go so well.
My vet was also not keen on me hometesting initially. But I did it anyway, and after a while the vet completely 'changed his tune' and came to respect and trust what I was doing. He'd just never had a client who'd hometested their cat before. Maybe your vet is the same..?

Many of us have pricked ourselves with our cat's insulin syringes, and to date I've never heard of anyone who suffered an adverse reaction. So please don't worry.
There was even someone here who was diabetic and accidentally gave herself her cat's insulin by mistake! She phoned the hospital for advice and I think they just told her to monitor her blood glucose and watch out for any unusual symptoms. (I'm pretty sure she could hear people laughing in the background....:D )
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the only prick was me not being careful i did not inject any thing in to me i was just wondering if i had injected myself by accident if it was harmful not that i intend to do it again
the real problem is i am needle phobic they terrify me jsut being a woose many thanks
gary
 
From Elizabeth's previous response, sounds like if you inject yourself with it, it might make your blood glucose go down.
 
While you work on testing, there are some other assessments you can make to help evaluate how he is doing. They are listed in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools. The most important one is measuring wtater consumption. There is an older protocol using some of these tools to manage the diabetes.
 
i dont know whats going on with tom his mood has changed jeckel and hyde he is runing away from me never done that before and is growling like a dog when i go to inject him also hissing and spiting at me do not know if he has the hump with me or a side effect he seems normal every other way hes never been like this before maybe its me and i am reading to much in to it
i printed the secondary monitoring and read it the other day thank
gary
 
Some cats don't feel well on Caninsulin/Vetsulin. That may be sufficient to let you try Lantus instead.
 
whats the diffrence between them please my vet told me the only one avable in the uk is caninsulin is this not true sorry for poor spelling having a confused day many thanks
gary (least i got my name right i think)
 
whats the diffrence between them please my vet told me the only one avable in the uk is caninsulin is this not true sorry for poor spelling having a confused day many thanks
gary (least i got my name right i think)
The difference between what to insulins? Caninsulin and Vetsulin are the same but are soldin different countries under different names. In the USA it is called Vestulin, In Canada it is Caninsulin.
 
hi thanks for the reply my vet said 4 weeks ago there was only one kind of insulin in the uk for cats reading on the website this seems to be a mistake on his part i understand canisulin and vetsulin are the same product diffrent labels what i dont understand is what are lantus and pzi and are they avalable in the uk the vet also said that australia had the better insulin for cats just need to know if he is wrong whats the diffrence between them or is he just leading me up the garden path they talk about getting tom in to remission or at least trying to then object to home testing and now i am not sure there telling me all i need to know to make the best and informed choices for my little mate tom sorry for being so thick having a lot of problems getting my head round it all so much to learn and take in and remember many thanks
gary
 
Actually, unfortunately, he is right. Vets do have to prescribe Canninsulin in the UK first. (I have never understood why but maybe people have run into this). What he can do, is if you can prove the Caninsulin isn't working, he can prescribe either Lantus or Levemir, or they have a long lasting PZI insulin that has worked well for @Elizabeth and Bertie . So, you might ask him to look into this, offer your spreadsheet numbers and behaviors you have observed as evidence and see if you can switch.

The complication is the testing at home. We need to help you figure put a way to accomplish this. I think you could probably fine tune with the Caninsulin (and you would need to with any of the others) to get him in good ranges and keep him safe. Where did you decide to test him? Was it on your lap in the wheelchair? If so, I wonder if you could try the kitty burrito. You wrap them up in a towel with only their head showing, offering treats of course, so you can hang onto them and their claws are not out.
 
Hi Gary,

Sorry I haven't been on your thread for a few days - haven't been feeling so good and struggling with side effects from yet another ultimately unhelpful med. :rolleyes:

Firstly I just want to say that my heart goes out to you over the PTSD. I often say a little prayer for people like yourself who developed it as a consequence of serving in the forces. Mine is bad but I can only imagine that your experience of it must have been so much worse. :bighug:

Secondly, sounds like you've got quite a brood over in Essex! I'm glad that you have your family around you - even if they keep half-inching your car keys! ;) Shows they care, and that's the main thing. :)

Love Tom's 'Satan Paws' monicker. I'm sorry you're having a tricky time with testing. Are you giving Tom any treats at testing time? Freeze-dried protein treats such as Cosma Snackies (available online from www.zooplus.co.uk) or Thrive treats (definitely carried by Sainsbury's and probably by other major supermarket chains) are diabetic-friendly and cats usually really like them. If you could get hold of some then you could try desensitizing Tom to the various steps involved in testing over a few days.

1. Handle his ears frequently during the day - without trying to test him - all as part of normal contact. After you've rubbed his ears a little, give him a protein treat and lots of praise.

2. Take him to his test station, then give praise and a treat.

3. Take him to his test station, then rub his ears. Follow this with praise and a treat.

4. Take him to test station, then smear a little Vaseline on the ear. Warm his ear using a rice sock or other gizmo. (. Give praise and a treat. (No test yet!)

5. Repeat the action/praise/treat routine with getting Tom used to hearing the lancet device clicking (if you're not freehanding with the lancet itself); then the meter beep.

6. If all goes well Tom will hopefully start to view the various steps in the test procedure as an overall positive experience. (My human does all this weird stuff but then I get something r-e-a-l-l-y yummy!) Then you can actually do the ear prick.

7. Even if a test attempt fails, always give the treat and the praise.

One of the trickiest parts of this is trying not to get anxious oneself when having difficulty trying to test because our little ones pick up on our nervousness. I had to pretend to myself I was doing swimmingly in the early days even though I was messing up left, right, and centre; but it helped Saoirse to be more relaxed about getting tested and eventually we found a technique that works for us.

Of course, all of this is complicated by Tom's response to the Caninsulin. My guess is that it may be making him feel a bit cruddy. I'll write more on that later.

BTW, any news on the latest addition to the family?


Mogs
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hi in answer no i dont do tom on my lap the wheelchair freaks him out these days it never use to he would ride around on my lap all day but at the moment he is still not trusting of me every time i close the doors so he cant get out he runs and hides still can not find where he is hiding it think its in the spare room and i can not get in there as its being done up for me i normaly do him on the ajustable work surface in the kitchen i tried wraping him in a towel got the scars to prove it
the vets i use has two vet a man and a woman the woman does not like home testing have not asked the man yet but last time i saw him he was going on about getting tom in to remision if we can i have a appointment on the 21/08/15 for a glucose curve i am hoping to see him then and talk to him about it if not i will ask there reasons why not
tom also used to ride on the stair lift now the bleeping when its on its way down freaks him out dont know why hes turned in to a scardy cat
still no sign off the new grandson yet we recon it will be this week as she never goes full term always a week to 10 days early
its never the drugs they give you its always the side effects then you need another drug for the side effects and so on and so on never ending circle
i dont think about the pstd any more managed to lay my ghosts to rest in 1992 on a return trip and found i dont remember my dreams any more thats a good thing i have lost 7 friends that could not get through it
i change toms lancet for the single ones not the ones in a drum so he can not see them we have had a few practice runs but not taken a blood sample yet as i am having a problem injecting his insulin at the moment hes being very awkward and fighting me hissing spitting and trying to run away hes never been like this before this only started a few days ago i thought i may be hurting him but been very careful and its not that need to sort that out first tried treats but hes not a cat that can be bought off
still playing with his ears hes seems ok with that and i have just ordered some of those cosma snacks a mix pack see wich ones they like cant give one with out the other
any must go max has just brought me home a live snake now i have to go a let that go many thanks
gary
 
Maybe see if you can find an upper level student interested in veterinary science to come learn how to test and get experience helping with a diabetic cat?
Try asking at local high schools (the last 4 years of school in the US) , colleges, perhaps a church if you belong to one, or off duty vet technologists/assistants.
 
hi just a update on tom he now has pancritus hes been keeped in the vets all day on a drip /pain killer /anti acid /anti sickness i am now more worried than ever just as i thought we had made a breakthrough he was coming for his insulin and just letting me do the injection no problem now this i know very little about this problem i had a quick look for info on this site but did not see any i know its there just cant find it
on the up side i got to see to other vet at my surgery he supports home testing just does not want me to use a human meter he checked out my insurance and he is getting them to pay for a proper cat one and get the test strips on repeat just as well i took out the insurance they recomended
tom is off his food again so i am mixing hills perscription critical care with a little water and syringe feeding him little and often he seems ok with this he likes it so its see how he goes over the weekend and back on monday morning and the vet is going to teach me how to do the blood glucose test if any one knows anything about pancritus i would be very greatful for the info or a link to were it is please or what sort of food he might eat i tried the turkey pate i made last time but he was just being sick with it poor little fella i am so worried as i know this can be very dangerouse sorry about the bad speling just not with it
many thanks
gary
 
Hi Gary. Sorry to hear that Tom has pancreatitis. I don't know anything about that, why don't you post a new thread on the feline health main forum. You'll get more looks there
 
Hi Gary,

Sorry I haven't visited your thread in a while. It's great that you've now got a vet you feel more comfortable with but I'm really very sorry to hear that Tom has pancreatitis. My cat, Saoirse, has chronic pancreatitis. Below I have given details of things that helped her through her major flare last year.

If Tom is finding it harder to eat it that is likely down to nausea and/or pain. Here's the nausea symptom checker from Tanya's Site that I found very helpful. There's a page on pancreatitis at that site, too.

First up, elevate Tom's food and water dishes so that he doesn't have to bend down to eat. (Stick a few paperback books or similar underneath them.) If he'll take some water mixed up with the food that will help with hydration. If not, you need to get vet input on how to keep him properly hydrated. You can check for hydration by pulling up the skin on the scruff of the neck: if it 'snaps' back into place then hydration is most likely OK; if it's slow to return to normal then he may be dehydrated. Also you can check his gums. If they're slightly sticky that indicates dehydration, too.

Vet Meds & Supplements Checklist:

- generic ondansetron for nausea (Zofran, the branded version is crazy expensive) - a must-have. NB: for the UK the Bristol Laboratories generic ondansetron is recommended for cats by experienced caregivers. It's a human medicine so if your vet can't get the generic from their wholesaler (our vet couldn't) you should be able to get a written Rx and have it filled at Boots, Morrisons in-store pharmacies or other chemist. I pay less than £10 for 30 tablets.

- cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation (small doses can work better (e.g. 1/8 4mg tablet 2-3 times a day for 10lb cat) - larger doses can cause too much sedation and somewhat depressed mood) - also a must-have.

- famotidine or ranitidine for stomach acid (may not be needed but very good to have on hand). Famotidine only needs to be given once a day. Ranitidine needs to be given twice a day.

- Course of weekly VITAMIN B 12 injections - once a week for several weeks (check IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines for how many weeks initially and also maintenance) - another must-have.

- buprenorphine for pain relief. (Saoirse does better on small doses - <0.1ml for 10lb cat ad hoc, max 2x per day suited her at height of flare - higher doses disagreed with her in a big way and made her very lethargic, but every cat is different).

- Flagyl or Stomorgyl 2 for diarrhoea if present (antibiotics - both contain metronidazole). Our vet prescribed the Stomorgyl 2 for Saoirse because apparently it's not quite as foul-tasting as the Flagyl.

- Pro-Kolin for diarrhoea - kaolin paste with probiotic.

- Nutramed (UK Only) - anti-inflammatory herbal supplement (boswellia, milk thistle, maritime pine bark).

- Liver support - check the IDEXX guidelines on supplementation with Denamarin or similar and discuss with your vet. The liver and pancreas are side by side and inflammation in the latter can irritate the liver also. (I give Saoirse Hepatosyl 50.)

Note: ondansetron and buprenorphine can cause a little constipation.

I can't emphasise strongly enough how valuable it is to keep a stock of ondansetron and cyproheptadine at home from now on so that you can address any reappearance of nausea symptoms or lack of appetite straight away; it makes a huge difference.

Food and Water:

- Fluids (preferably through adding a little to each meal), else consult vet about alternative methods.

- Feed small, frequent meals - something highly digestible helps. I fed Saoirse chicken breast gently poached in water, minced finely and served with a 50-50 mix of the poaching broth and water. At the height of her flare last year I fed her 1 tbsp minced chicken with 1 tbsp water and 1 tbsp broth every hour, 24/7. Timed feeders are invaluable for dispensing food when you need to get some rest. Even if appetite improves, keeping to mini meals (not necessarily as frequently as 1 every hour) during the height of a flare puts less strain on the pancreas.* Gradually I managed to wean Saoirse onto Liquivite liquid recovery food and that helped keep her hydrated as well as getting the full complement of nutrients she needed. It's a soupy consistency with a high moisture content (c. 90%) so it's suitable for syringe feeding and helps with hydration.

- Slightly warming food (c. 10 seconds at 20-40% in the microwave - stir and check for hot spots before serving it), or sprinkling it with crumbled up chicken Cosma Snackies or similar treats can make the food more tempting.

- Going forward, any changes to diet should be made cautiously; ideally only one slow change at a time.

- Some pancreatitis kitties are quite sensitive to the fat content of the food, but not all. For what it's worth, Saoirse is not overly fat-sensitive and after 9 months of food trials I finally found a food that she tolerates quite well. It's Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly Poultry Selection. She also got on relatively OK with Smilla Kitten Food with Chicken (from zooplus.co.uk). Both are very low carb (<2% kilocalories from carbs) so if you're feeding a higher carb food, you should check with your vet and also make sure you're able to home test before making any food change (otherwise BG could go too low).

I strongly recommend you avoid feeding foods with carrageenan listed as an ingredient. It can inflame the GI tract. (I didn't know about the problems with carrageenan last year and I fed Saoirse a low carb food containing carrageenan and that triggered her major flare. It also upset my other cat's stomach.)

Hope some of the above helps or gives you some ideas to try for Tom. I truly hope he feels better soon. If there's anything else I might do to help in the meantime, just tag me. Pancreatitis is tough on both the cat and their person; it is a bit of a roller coaster but with the right supportive treatments and food it is manageable. Saoirse was very, very sick last year at the height of her flare, but she got a lot better once the treatments started working. The key is to keep Tom eating and getting enough fluids while the medicines help him. The Liquivite food worked a minor miracle for Saoirse. They do trial quantities of small numbers of cans.

Is Tom still being treated at the vets? Please send us an update when you can to let us know how you're both doing, Gary. :bighug:



Mogs


(PS: I'm glad that you got past the PTSD stuff. :bighug:)

* Lantus (insulin glargine) may be a better choice for a cat with pancreatitis because its gentler action profile can work better when a cat needs lots of small meals during the day to ease the strain on the pancreas. The UK drug cascade rules permit prescription of insulins other than Caninsulin if the Caninsulin doesn't work for the cat. Keep an eye on your forum Inbox (top right hand side of screen). I'm sending you a PM.

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