New DX - terrified fur-mom

Status
Not open for further replies.
AllinforCookie

AllinforCookie

Member Since 2020
Cookie was DX in April 2019 with diabetes-she is obese and has been for some time-- not for lack of trying to get her to lose weight --maybe lack of good knowledge...she was started with 3 units of Vetsulin 2 X daily. Vet had us go down to 2 and now is at .75 over the course of a few months. Her numbers have ranged from 114 to 376 with home testing and now averages a weekly count of BG of 169. Her diet is now canned Royal Canin Glyco Balance. She seemed to be doing so well and even was playing which we hadn't seen in some time. Then...She was DX with diabetic neuropathy yesterday after a horrible night where she lost use of her back legs and even her front somewhat and lost control of urine..she was at the vet yesterday for the day..given pain meds ..anti nausea meds and sub Q fluids...she was fine the first hour home and then went back into the same condition....has since been hiding under the bed....gave her pain meds and anti nausea meds at 3:30 this morning...and no significant change......she has never hidden...in 11 years for any reason...is this typical behavior for this stage of the disease? ....this is terrifying so I am here to learn from those who are living it ..the vet says with weight loss Cookie can go into remission. This is our goal.
 
WELCOME TO FDMB! I'm so GLAD you found us! As you may know we are a dedicated to the well being of our sugar cats, we are of yours as well. Your first post has made you a part of this huge family and we will do our best to help you get answers and guidance.
By starting hometesting you are WAY ahead of the game and we are so grateful to you for learning it! GOOD JOB!

We can get started by having you set up a spread sheet and signature . The signature helps our experts at a glance know all Cookies particulars like insulin type her food she eats. BOTH your names and so on. The spread sheet helps us see how the insulin is working and trends to help make wise decisions on dosing advice.
you can find that info here:
Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area

Again welcome to the best site on the planet to help you help Cookie! :bighug:
jeanne
 
Oh, how scary!!!!

I hope others with knowledge will be able to weigh in on this, but I have to say I'm a little worried about your vet's diagnosis. Usually the onset of diabetic neuropathy is more gradual than what you describe, and the result of an extended time with unregulated diabetes, while Cookie sounds reasonably well-regulated.

Not saying it's impossible that her recent collapses have been due to diabetic neuropathy (again, hopefully others with more specific knowledge and experience will be here soon), just that I worry it might be something else. What other kinds of things did the vet look for and rule out? Did they do any tests or scans?

I hope we can help you and that this gets resolved quickly. :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
Well...I should clarify..the vet "believes" its neuropathy....she also has pancreatitis ..probably should have mentioned that....I believe that Cookie probably had diabetes a while before her actual diagnosis....I also believe she showed signs of it that I just related to her getting older ...the back legs looked different from other kitties .just thought it was a "Cookie thing". Even noticed her front paws a while back while sitting were not resting on her toe beans but further up her leg by the extra toe bean. She has had rapid breathing ..they did x-ray of heart and a ProBnp test....and they said the numbers were good --going by memory it was at 45. They did another large set of blood tests along with another ProBnp on Saturday we are waiting on those results. I will post them once I receive them...maybe even get my hands on the prior tests to compare.
 
Welcome to you and Cookie!

I’m happy to hear you’re home testing. Do you test before each shot? I’m not a big fan of Vetsulin as it was designed for dogs not cats. It’s also called caninsulin for canines and starting her on 3 units a day is awfully high to start off with. The food you’re feeding her, Royal Canin Glyco Balance, is high in carbs and likely prescribed by your vet because of the pancreatitis, right? They did the same with Minnie before we confirmed her IBD. There’s nothing special or even great about it other than being expensive and marketed for something that it’s not ideal for. Most of us here feed our cats fancy feast pate. You want to look for food that has 10% or less carbs in it. How often do you feed her? With Vetsulin you should make sure she eats about 30 minutes before the shots.

I have to agree with Nan, neuropathy tends to happen gradually and it usually takes longer to be that severe. Minnie had it and it was severe, but didn’t start until maybe 5 months of her being diabetic.

so the X-ray is the heart didn’t show anything abnormal? Are you sure it was 45 and not 35? 45 is too fast...
 
Well as I said she was diagnosed 3 months ago but I'm quite certain she's had diabetes as early as last summer...so if you count that time isn't it possible for it to have been progressing without me knowing? Great just bought a whole case of the Royal Canin yesterday. I have been feeding her twice a day....usually 30 minutes before the shot in the morning and then like an hour before the shot at night because she's starving by then....so I am guessing maybe I should feed her more than twice a day? I am sure it said 45..and dr thought it would be worse and that he was pleased. I am going to request the lab results so I can post them here..maybe that will shed some light on what is going on ..the vets office is so busy and with the COVID its extremely difficult to really take in all the information in that situation distancing and in the parking lot...she's also been getting shots of B12 twice a week I should add.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
so the X-ray is the heart didn’t show anything abnormal? Are you sure it was 45 and not 35? 45 is too fast...
Click to expand...

Hi Ale - I think she means the Cardiopet Pro BNP test came out good - it's a blood test to predict heart health, instead of an echocardiogram. If the number is under 100, kitty shouldn't have serious heart issues. The lower the number, the better.
 
AllinforCookie said:
Well as I said she was diagnosed 3 months ago but I'm quite certain she's had diabetes as early as last summer...so if you count that time isn't it possible for it to have been progressing without me knowing? Great just bought a whole case of the Royal Canin yesterday. I have been feeding her twice a day....usually 30 minutes before the shot in the morning and then like an hour before the shot at night because she's starving by then....so I am guessing maybe I should feed her more than twice a day? I am sure it said 45..and dr thought it would be worse and that he was pleased. I am going to request the lab results so I can post them here..maybe that will shed some light on what is going on ..the vets office is so busy and with the COVID its extremely difficult to really take in all the information in that situation distancing and in the parking lot...she's also been getting shots of B12 twice a week I should add.
Click to expand...

I feel like your vet is treating her as if she were a dog and that’s not uncommon with vets more used to treating dogs than cats. Dogs are okay eating twice a day only, but cats are grazers and do better eating smaller meals throughout the day. It’s also easier on their pancreas. In addition, diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food as well and are always hungry even when they eat. They need more food because they lose weight even by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. I’d do a calorie count. If you know her ideal weight, there’s a formula you can use to figure with how many calories a day she should be eating. Minnie’s is 16 pounds and she’s on 300 calories a day. You can also get low carb treats like freeze dried chicken or turkey and feed it to her in between the big meals.
 
Last edited:
I did buy the freeze dried chicken treats and was giving her those. I am so glad that that was a smart choice. She weighs 14.6 pounds. I think the vet said 200 calories a day? But I have been very sleep deprived and forgot to bring something to write it down with so that may not even be what she said ...I've got a call in to verify that today. She is currently prescribed Cerenia 1/2 24 mg tab twice daily and 2 - 6 mg tabs of Onsior...every 24 hours.
 
Last edited:
Welcome BTW!!
In case Cookie does have neuropathy -- Tina had severe neuropathy before finally being diagnosed with diabetes, and then it started going away after being on insulin (and Zobaline) for 2-3 months. The neuropathy did come on slowly - doc kept thinking it was arthritis in spine and hips, and her diabetes went untreated for 6 months. He thought her very high glucose was stress related, and told me her labs were fine in February (always request complete labs!). In July, I immediately started insulin after more bloodwork, and when her numbers started looking good, the neuropathy slowly resolved.
Kisses to Cookie:cat:

Meanwhile, don't hesitate to ask for help setting up your signature or spreadsheet . . . try to relax too - you've found a fabulous place for help:bighug:
 
Tina Marie and Jan said:
Welcome BTW!!
In case Cookie does have neuropathy -- Tina had severe neuropathy before finally being diagnosed with diabetes, and then it started going away after being on insulin (and Zobaline) for 2-3 months. The neuropathy did come on slowly - doc kept thinking it was arthritis in spine and hips, and her diabetes went untreated for 6 months. He thought her very high glucose was stress related, and told me her labs were fine in February (always request complete labs!). In July, I immediately started insulin after more bloodwork, and when her numbers started looking good, the neuropathy slowly resolved.
Kisses to Cookie:cat:

Meanwhile, don't hesitate to ask for help setting up your signature or spreadsheet . . . try to relax too - you've found a fabulous place for help:bighug:
Click to expand...
 
Tina Marie and Jan said:
Welcome BTW!!
In case Cookie does have neuropathy -- Tina had severe neuropathy before finally being diagnosed with diabetes, and then it started going away after being on insulin (and Zobaline) for 2-3 months. The neuropathy did come on slowly - doc kept thinking it was arthritis in spine and hips, and her diabetes went untreated for 6 months. He thought her very high glucose was stress related, and told me her labs were fine in February (always request complete labs!). In July, I immediately started insulin after more bloodwork, and when her numbers started looking good, the neuropathy slowly resolved.
Kisses to Cookie:cat:

Meanwhile, don't hesitate to ask for help setting up your signature or spreadsheet . . . try to relax too - you've found a fabulous place for help:bighug:
Click to expand...
So true! Minnie went from not being able to walk more than 2 steps without resting back to being her normal self running and jumping again! We used the Vitacost b12 methyl that comes in capsules and I’d just mix it with her food :bighug::bighug:
 
Zobaline

Look at the ingredients . . . Methylcobalamin 3mg, and 200mcg of folic acid

Something else people do is buy the straight Methylcobalamin and measure it out - Vitacost B12 methylcobalamin, like Ale said. I believe that route is cheaper than Zobaline, which is almost 20 dollars a month. I'm not sure of the effects of adding folic acid . . . need to read more again!

My doc didn't think Zobaline would help . . . he thought getting BG in control was the only way to improve neuropathy, BUT he didn't turn out too helpful in other areas, so I'm sold on continuing the Zobaline forever.

Tina doesn't get B12 injections, so I don't know if Cookie would still need or benefit from Methylcobalamin. Somebody else probably knows and I'll look around.

Best of luck in talking to your vet:) I don't know about the enzyme levels involving pancreatitis . . . always a lot to learn!
 
Tina Marie and Jan said:
Zobaline

Look at the ingredients . . . Methylcobalamin 3mg, and 200mcg of folic acid

Something else people do is buy the straight Methylcobalamin and measure it out - Vitacost B12 methylcobalamin, like Ale said. I believe that route is cheaper than Zobaline, which is almost 20 dollars a month. I'm not sure of the effects of adding folic acid . . . need to read more again!

My doc didn't think Zobaline would help . . . he thought getting BG in control was the only way to improve neuropathy, BUT he didn't turn out too helpful in other areas, so I'm sold on continuing the Zobaline forever.

Tina doesn't get B12 injections, so I don't know if Cookie would still need or benefit from Methylcobalamin. Somebody else probably knows and I'll look around.

Best of luck in talking to your vet:) I don't know about the enzyme levels involving pancreatitis . . . always a lot to learn!
Click to expand...
I wondered about the folic acid too I know @Diane Tyler's Mom added that since we both used the Vitacost brand. I never did and it didn’t affect Minnie’s recovery.
@AllinforCookie the b12 shots are not the same thing as the b12 methyl supplement. The b12 methyl is a different type of b12 that works directly on the spinal fluid to regenerate the nerves. FYI, most vets don’t know a thing about it. It’s water soluble so the excess gets peed out and there is no side effects to it since it’s a vitamin. I started Minnie on a higher dose so it’d work faster. She was taking 7.5mgs a day and now I have her on 5 for maintanance. The Vitacost brand is much more affordable than the Zobaline especially if you’re doing 2 zobalines a day for a total of 6mg. I also like the capsule that I could just empty into her food as opposed to having to pill her or crush the pill
 
AllinforCookie said:
I did by the freeze dried chicken treats and was giving her those. I am so glad that that was a smart choice. She weighs 14.6 pounds. I think the vet said 200 calories a day? But I have been very sleep deprived and forgot to bring something to write it down with so that may not even be what she said ...I've got a call in to verify that today. She is currently prescribed Cerenia 1/2 24 mg tab twice daily and 2 - 6 mg tabs of Onsior...every 24 hours.
Click to expand...
The rule of thumb for Calories is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if 14.6 is a good weight for her, she would need about 292 calories to maintain her weight. So that would be about 3.5 cans of ff give our take depending on the flavor.

Poor cookie with pancreatitis. When my cat had pancratitis it was treated with cerenia for nausea,bupe for pain and sub q's daily for a couple weeks.

I'd like to see the labs. I'm curious to see if the potassium is low.
 
JanetNJ said:
The rule of thumb for Calories is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if 14.6 is a good weight for her, she would need about 292 calories to maintain her weight. So that would be about 3.5 cans of ff give our take depending on the flavor.

Poor cookie with pancreatitis. When my cat had pancratitis it was treated with cerenia for nausea,bupe for pain and sub q's daily for a couple weeks.

I'd like to see the labs. I'm curious to see if the potassium is low.
Click to expand...
Speaking of low potassium. Is RenaPlus something used for pancreatitis kitties with potassium deficiency? Minnie is on it right now because of the furosemide
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I wondered about the folic acid too I know @Diane Tyler's Mom added that since we both used the Vitacost brand. I never did and it didn’t affect Minnie’s recovery.
@AllinforCookie the b12 shots are not the same thing as the b12 methyl supplement. The b12 methyl is a different type of b12 that works directly on the spinal fluid to regenerate the nerves. FYI, most vets don’t know a thing about it. It’s water soluble so the excess gets peed out and there is no side effects to it since it’s a vitamin. I started Minnie on a higher dose so it’d work faster. She was taking 7.5mgs a day and now I have her on 5 for maintanance. The Vitacost brand is much more affordable than the Zobaline especially if you’re doing 2 zobalines a day for a total of 6mg. I also like the capsule that I could just empty into her food as opposed to having to pill her or crush the pill
Click to expand...
's

The B12 he has us give her has that extra supplement in it...can't get that spelling right but he says its not just B12..:)
 
JanetNJ said:
The rule of thumb for Calories is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if 14.6 is a good weight for her, she would need about 292 calories to maintain her weight. So that would be about 3.5 cans of ff give our take depending on the flavor.

Poor cookie with pancreatitis. When my cat had pancratitis it was treated with cerenia for nausea,bupe for pain and sub q's daily for a couple weeks.

I'd like to see the labs. I'm curious to see if the potassium is low.
Click to expand...
Dr says he would like to see her down a "few pounds" so I'm thinking we are shooting for 11 pounds ....from what they have told me everything is in the normal range I have requested the labs ..waiting on the email and I will share for your input :) And that is exactly what they are giving Cookie...but we didn't get the bupe until 3 days into her nightmare...which really makes me angry..she was only given Onsior which my niece who is a vet tech said would not touch that kind of pain..she could have been saved from a lot of suffering..
 
AllinforCookie said:
Dr says he would like to see her down a "few pounds" so I'm thinking we are shooting for 11 pounds ....from what they have told me everything is in the normal range I have requested the labs ..waiting on the email and I will share for your input :) And that is exactly what they are giving Cookie...but we didn't get the bupe until 3 days into her nightmare...which really makes me angry..she was only given Onsior which my niece who is a vet tech said would not touch that kind of pain..she could have been saved from a lot of suffering..
Click to expand...
poor baby... i'm glad she's on the bupe now. When my cat had it and I gave him the bupe within minutes I saw a look of relief come over his face and he laid down and just had a peaceful healing nap. he was so uncomfortable before stiff and sitting like a meatloaf. Ok so if he's 14.6 maybe make the first weight goal be 13lbs ... you don't wanna feed her too little and have her starving. so lets say 13x20 is 260 calories. If you are feeding fancy feast that would be about 3 cans per day. you could do one in the morning, half mid day, one at dinnertime, and a half before bed.
 
Update on Cookie....it seems the doctor does not believe the pain and loss of mobility in her legs is due to neuropathy....the vet who saw her when her regular vet was out was the one who had us going in that direction by saying that's what she believed it to be because the x-ray of her back taken monday compared to the one taken a month ago showed no significant change....her regular vet last night said that because her BG was so good that he doubts it is neuropathy and believes its her back "breaking down" from being overweight ..this is when we got the pain meds (Buprenorphine) that actually brought her some relief....her BG before leaving for the vet today at 1.30 was 104 and this morning at 6 a.m. was 186. Dr wanted to start her on laser treatments for her back ...she has another appt in the morning for another treatment...she is walking short distances ..but can't go very far...but no pain thank goodness..I've got her in a very comfy cat carrier to keep her contained so she don't try stairs or cram herself in somewhere she can't get out with legs that don't work properly. I am going to start testing more...to see if we are given the right amount of insulin which right now dr has me giving her 3/4 of a unit. How many times day would you guys suggest? And when would be the best times to do it. I should add that I was less than please about the back thing because if her back is "breaking down" now wouldn't it be logical that it was breaking down a month ago as there was no change in the xrays..so treatment should have started then. When I say no pain I should say no "signs of pain" as I of course do not know what she's feeling.
 
JanetNJ said:
poor baby... i'm glad she's on the bupe now. When my cat had it and I gave him the bupe within minutes I saw a look of relief come over his face and he laid down and just had a peaceful healing nap. he was so uncomfortable before stiff and sitting like a meatloaf. Ok so if he's 14.6 maybe make the first weight goal be 13lbs ... you don't wanna feed her too little and have her starving. so lets say 13x20 is 260 calories. If you are feeding fancy feast that would be about 3 cans per day. you could do one in the morning, half mid day, one at dinnertime, and a half before bed.
Click to expand...
Yes that's for sure...she's resting comfortably now..and she too was in that stiff loaf sit with the head down..she just looked rigid...it was awful...now she's laying on her side with legs extended she could not do that before...she even gave me an upside down head roll when I gave her some loving LOL I am actually feeding her the Royal Canin Glyco Balance I think its like 68 calories a can? I have to look it up....this is what the dr recommended but I am hearing everyone talk about the fancy feast being so low in carbs and she actually prefers the pate over the gravy and chopped meat. I am thinking what she's going through is like when my back goes out ..its excruciating and then I rest and medicate and I get better...I hope that is the case for our Cookie girl :)
 
I am SO glad I found this forum....I cannot tell you how thankful I am for all of your input and invaluable information...between you all and my niece, the vet tech, things aren't so frightening and I know that I am doing the right thing for her now..and for that I am so grateful. And so is Cookie I am sure. :)
 
AllinforCookie said:
I am actually feeding her the Royal Canin Glyco Balance I think its like 68 calories a can? I have to look it up....this is what the dr recommended but I am hearing everyone talk about the fancy feast being so low in carbs and she actually prefers the pate over the gravy and chopped meat.
Click to expand...
Glycobalance is about 14% carb... which is a little too high for diabetic cats. You really wanna keep it under 10% carb. This is the chart to help you pick foods. Yes a lot feed fancy feast pate or friskies pate. I feed weruva because my cat has kidney failure and needs lower phospherous. Tiki Cat is another good choice and low in calories. https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php Maybe she feels like a pinched nerve or something? I hope it resolves soon! :(
 
JanetNJ said:
Glycobalance is about 14% carb... which is a little too high for diabetic cats. You really wanna keep it under 10% carb. This is the chart to help you pick foods. Yes a lot feed fancy feast pate or friskies pate. I feed weruva because my cat has kidney failure and needs lower phospherous. Tiki Cat is another good choice and low in calories. https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php Maybe she feels like a pinched nerve or something? I hope it resolves soon! :(

Maybe I will just donate the rest of the GlycoBalance and get her the Fancy Feast...with all she's going through I want to have exactly what she needs to get healthy again....I'm hoping its something like that..but she's also got arthritis in her hips and he said something going on with her spine .."breaking down" whatever that means...my niece is a vet tech who said she's never heard of a cats back "breaking down " because she was overweight.....I was rather distraught when he went over everything but I will be asking further questions about it.
Click to expand...
 
What insulin is she on again? If you could add that to your signature, that would be helpful when we answer your questions :cat:

regardless, all insulin should be given twice a day every 12 hours. Did the vet mean 3-4 of a unit once a day? I’d clarify because if that’s the case, then you have to divide up 3/4 so you
 
Ok guys I got the labs ! I will upload them so you can take a look....Cookies labs showed she did have a UTI..poor kitty on top of everything else ...but the one I am most happy about is the proBNP...38!!! Last lab it was at 45...I am hoping that is a good thing....lower than 100 is good right? They treated her UTI with a Covenia injection which will also help the skin infection...something she has been battling with for years...can't seem to figure out what the allergy is...or why she breaks out in the itchy bumps...mainly in the lower part of her body...but it is everywhere....then there is the BG...it was at 104 yesterday afternoon before the vet....and 181 this morning before food at 6 am. Dr says continue on with the .75 unit twice daily.... She is eating really well...and even is back to peeing in her box and even made a poop...she is constipated so dr said miralax in her food which we have been doing for a while as she is prone to constipation. She had her second laser treatment today for her back and she is walking better...... waking up this morning to a bright face that walked onto the air mattress and snuggled with me was absolutely priceless. (I have been sleeping on an air mattress in our spare bedroom/office..the room where her carrier is) today dr said he thought she was in a downward spiral when he saw her earlier in the week but now its a whole new ballgame...sorry if this is rambling and bouncing around I am just really excited ...I really believe she is going to be okay. So nice to have her sleeping all stretched out in bed and not in the carrier...anyway I'll be back with the lab upload soon! Thank you all so much and I look forward to continuing sharing our progress and hopefully be able to help people like you all have helped me!
 
I have to pile on. Cookie is PRECIOUS!
I was simply a foster failure, after having just one street cat's kitten. I just have six now, lol;)
Oops, I chose Tina online through Petfinder, right after Hurricane Katrina. I picked her just before the actual kitties from Katrina started showing up. Couldn't stand for Tina to get lost among the newcomers!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top