New dilemma with my Vet and Diabetes

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Okay so I called my Vet office to ask them about if Pooper's had any oral problems back in October of last year. He indeed had tartar buildup on his teeth and they treated him with antibiotic due to sores in mouth. However, the lady I talked to that appeared to be a Vet Tech said that if he had any oral problems then it wouldn't affect his glucose that much. I told her this because I am having a hard time getting him regulated and down below 200. The next thing this lady tells me is that I can go up to 3 units 2 times a day now to see if that works but also just give Pooper's ONLY 2 cans a day. 1 can in the morning and 1 at night because he doesn't need the calories nor added food since he needs to lose weight. I said so its okay for him to go all afternoon without food and she said yes because he needs to lose weight and it will help to regulate him with no eating so much throughout the day. I thought a diabetic cat needs to eat small meals throughout the day? Then lastly she said that I didn't need to test him so much like a disc jokey and I said I'm sorry but I need to test his glucose throughout the day to know where it is. She thought I only needed to test it at 2pm each day since it would be at the +6 mark from the time I would have given him his 3 units. What are your guy's thoughts to this discussion?
 
Not to mention it seems like if he goes several hours without eating that I see his glucose start to really go up. What the hell is wrong with people working in a Vets office telling me to just give him a cat to a can and a half in the morning and then at night? URRRRRRR
 
When you say 2 cans a day is that the 5.5/6 oz cans or the smaller 3 oz cans?
Some cats respond better to frequent, small means. I only feed mine twice daily.
My opinion is that you are testing too much between shots. Today and yesterday is more like it, one test between shots in addition to the test before each shot. I seldom test more than twice a day.
 
Show the vets your data from the time Poopers' BG was clearly dropping after food. As Larry says above, some cats do better with regular small meals. Poopers may well be one of them.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
When you say 2 cans a day is that the 5.5/6 oz cans or the smaller 3 oz cans?
Some cats respond better to frequent, small means. I only feed mine twice daily.
My opinion is that you are testing too much between shots. Today and yesterday is more like it, one test between shots in addition to the test before each shot. I seldom test more than twice a day.
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They are the 3.3oz cans
 
Oral infections will generally make it very difficult to regulate a cat and it's no coincidence that so many manage to get OTJ following a dental so she is flat out wrong about that. Vyktor was one that went into remission after getting a dental. A few months ago his numbers were starting to climb out of the normal range again - another dental fixed that!

You do take more tests than strictly necessary but all data is good data especially when you're getting to know how your cat works. However, I see that you often skip taking a PMPS - not a good idea, you should always test before you shoot.

Generally it is better to spread the food in mini meals so that the pancreas doesn't have so much to try and deal with all at once and since domestic cats are grazers naturally but I'm sure there are plenty of people that just give a couple of meals a day too. Interestingly we have one cat that has been on Lantus for five years, the bean just recently tried the idea of mini meals spread out and that cat is now on day four of its OTJ trial and looking good.

I can't offer specific dose advice with that type of insulin but it does look like Pooper needs a bit more.
 
@Vyktors Mum - I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know which member and cat is looking at OTJ after switching to mini meals. I'd very much like to have a look at the kitty's spreadsheet.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Oral infections will generally make it very difficult to regulate a cat and it's no coincidence that so many manage to get OTJ following a dental so she is flat out wrong about that. Vyktor was one that went into remission after getting a dental. A few months ago his numbers were starting to climb out of the normal range again - another dental fixed that!

You do take more tests than strictly necessary but all data is good data especially when you're getting to know how your cat works. However, I see that you often skip taking a PMPS - not a good idea, you should always test before you shoot.

Generally it is better to spread the food in mini meals so that the pancreas doesn't have so much to try and deal with all at once and since domestic cats are grazers naturally but I'm sure there are plenty of people that just give a couple of meals a day too. Interestingly we have one cat that has been on Lantus for five years, the bean just recently tried the idea of mini meals spread out and that cat is now on day four of its OTJ trial and looking good.

I can't offer specific dose advice with that type of insulin but it does look like Pooper needs a bit more.
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My whole SS is not set up the way others are. I always take a PMPS shot every day. The numbers just happen to be on the left side of the chart and not the right side.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Oral infections will generally make it very difficult to regulate a cat and it's no coincidence that so many manage to get OTJ following a dental so she is flat out wrong about that. Vyktor was one that went into remission after getting a dental. A few months ago his numbers were starting to climb out of the normal range again - another dental fixed that!

You do take more tests than strictly necessary but all data is good data especially when you're getting to know how your cat works. However, I see that you often skip taking a PMPS - not a good idea, you should always test before you shoot.

Generally it is better to spread the food in mini meals so that the pancreas doesn't have so much to try and deal with all at once and since domestic cats are grazers naturally but I'm sure there are plenty of people that just give a couple of meals a day too. Interestingly we have one cat that has been on Lantus for five years, the bean just recently tried the idea of mini meals spread out and that cat is now on day four of its OTJ trial and looking good.

I can't offer specific dose advice with that type of insulin but it does look like Pooper needs a bit more.
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Yeah probably will end up going to Lantus! How much did you pay for Lantus? I was looking at 1 pen since its like $300 for a box of pens and vial.
 
I looked at Pooper's mouth and he has a white puffy spot on the lower end of his mouth which could be an abscess. So I don't doubt he has oral problems and probably why he isn't dropping. Dang problems left and right with my cats. URRR
 
Agree that you need to deal with his dental/mouth issues. I do see some strange numbers on your ss. What happened on 2/18 when he dropped from 528 at midcycle to 196 for pre shot? A bad test? On 2/20 3 units dropped from 400 to 157 at +3? Inaccurate test?

One thing you could try is to move between doses by .25 or .5 increases instead of whole units? Pick a dose like 2 units, hold it 3-6 cycles (unless the numbers are too low to shoot). If too low, reduce by .25 if high and flat, increase by .25? I am thinking the jumps in dosages are too much and he doesn't have time to adjust to a new dose?
 
No, don't think they were inaccurate tests, he was on N and that has caused him to drop suddenly some 200-300 points. He was at 500 one time and gave him 3 units and it dropped him into the upper 100s in like 3-4 hours. But then after +6 hours, his numbers would suddenly climb way up.
 
Well I have it in the notes on the right side when I started it
 
A nice dark line separating the before and after sections usually makes it more clear.
Some folks even insert a row, color it, and type the change in insulin in a large bold font.
 
Hi Little brother was 20lbs when diagnosed so I understand the weight issue. I did get him down to 18 in six months an than down to 16 lbs. He was on Lantus for three months at first he was on 3 units 2x a day than down to 2 units and then to 1/2 unit if needed. It was really aggressive way to go. I really think it was his diet of all dry food that made him diabetic. Changing his food combined with the insulin really helped The mouth issues will indeed after BG levels. I give him 1/2 tablespoon of low-no carb can cat food (friskies chicken dinner) mixed with 1/2 tablespoon of Broiled No hormone added shreded chicken thigh. I broil 4 chicken thighs a week. He gets this mix am and pm and usually gets one more as a snack he free range eats.He has no problems yelling from the kitchen that his bowl is empty!!! Don't give up although I can understand your frustration. My prayers are with you,it is hard to care for someone who can't tell you in words how they are feeling,I have this notion that God gives us our animal companions along with an extra blessing because He knows we have enough love in us to hear their hearts speak.
 
Vegjeta said:
... it is hard to care for someone who can't tell you in words how they are feeling, I have this notion that God gives us our animal companions along with an extra blessing because He knows we have enough love in us to hear their hearts speak.
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That is a very beautiful - and very moving - thought. :)

(((Vegjeta)))
 
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