New diagnosis and food concerns

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Bridget & Lord Nelson

Bridget & Lord Nelson

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Hi all! I'm so glad that this forum is here. My 8 year old cat Nelson had been slowly but steadily losing weight for the last 6-8 weeks and not regaining it even though he has been eating normally... and in the last couple weeks eating ravenously. I took him to the vet on Friday and walked out with a shiny new dx, promptly filled the rx for Lantus which he has been taking 2x/day since Friday evening (1 unit/12 hrs). I spent the weekend reading up on feline diabetes and got a home testing unit today, since the only testing the vet was asking me to do was with the urine sticks. She also prescribed Hills w/d which Nelson started eating readily but I'm concerned that maybe the food he was on before was better than the w/d.

All my other cats not otherwise on rx food are eating a mixture of Wellness Core dry and Authority canned chicken. Back in the day my kitties were all Science Diet kitties--particularly the seniors Nelson's age and older--but after becoming more educated in recent years I feed them more wet food rather than just dry, and when I do feed dry it's grain free, and settled on the Wellness Core/Authority combo just under a year ago now (before that I was feeding Solid Gold Indigo Moon). I'd rather not feed any of my cats Hills anything because I don't think it's a good food particularly for what it costs. I have 2 cats with urinary stone issues (one of whom is Nelson's sister), one on k/d (yes, I have a cat who developed urate uroliths normally found in dalmatians) and the other on c/d. It makes me sick that I'm feeding them a lower quality food than they had been on before but since they're both stone free I'm a bit wary about changing their diets. However, I'm really questioning whether Nelson should be on w/d considering he was already on a much lower carb diet when he developed diabetes symptoms.

I'm hoping that the younger cats who have always been on a low carb diet won't have the issues Nelson has, since it's only been the last 2 1/2 years or so that he's been on a lower carb diet.

Nelson loves wet so I was feeding him almost exclusively wet, more so in the last several weeks after I noticed him losing weight. Fortunately he won't have any problem continuing an exclusively wet diet since that's his preference anyway. I looked at at the chart on Binky's page and based on the carb count, am I better off just feeding him what he was eating before? I'll start testing BG today but based on his urine there has been very little change since Friday and I'd hate to be offsetting whatever benefit he might be getting from the insulin by putting him on what to him must be kitty candy! Are there any other benefits at all to the w/d or should I go with my gut here and feed him his old canned food?
 
As long as the old canned food was of the low carb (under 10%) variety... you would be doing Nelson and yourself a favour by feeding it to him.


Welcome... Your instincts are spot on and many of us here do not like the HIll's foods either as that is what likely prompted the diabetes in our kitties. I would say that with a bit of research on this site, you might find something better for the kitty that is eating k/d too.

I'm very happy to read that your vet has you on an appropriate insulin at an appropriate dosage. AND that you are going to start home testing. Boy, that saves us a lot of typing!! ;-)

Getting rid of all the dry in your house would likely help all of your cats - and Nelson in particular if he has any access to the dry.

Good luck and please do keep reading and asking question if there is ever a doubt about anything on the site or with respect to treatment. There are dozens of people here regularly with a variety of experiences to share that can help.
 
Go to the health links section of this board, it's the next category down. The information you want is at www.catinfo.org . In addition you will want to read the other links to get a leg up on treatment.

Gia & Quirk (GA)

Guilt trips are a detour from life
 
Thanks! Yes, the Authority canned chicken is 6% carbs, so much, much lower than the w/d. I know that dry is bad particularly for my diabetic kitty but even the Core dry is preferable to the w/d canned at 11% vs. what, something in the mid 20s?

Since it's been over 2 years since Muffin has had stones, and her urine tests have all come back normal, I will see if there are alternatives to the k/d. Pixel, who is on the c/d is a fairly young cat (just under 2 years old) and almost had a urinary blockage around Thanksgiving, so I may wait on him but certainly don't want to keep him on c/d forever if there are healthier alternatives.

Unfortunately, with our lifestyles and the number of cats we have raw is not really an option. We have 13 cats. No, I'm not a hoarder. :shock: They all get regular care, vaccinations, monthly flea preventative, good food, are all fixed, they live in a clean environment, etc. We rescued and neutered several barn cats including two breeding females from a horse barn that was knocked down in our neighborhood for apartments and placed many of the kittens... but unfortunately not all. We are blessed that both my husband and I have good incomes and since we are now empty nesters we can afford to take care of them. Though we are beyond maxed! The next cats we rescue will have to go to the nearest no-kill shelter!

Thanks for the link. I have been to that site and spent a good amount of time this past weekend reading up and educating myself...
 
There are plenty of multi-cat households here on the FDMB... don't worry about the hoarder label. You won't get that here...

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There are a few that have over 10 and make their own raw. It does actually save money... but if it's not convenient for you, the low carb wet is good for all of them. I lost Sundance in 2008 and we have a new non-diabetic cat... he gets raw mostly, and sometimes the low carb canned if I can't get the raw.... I can totally see a difference in his activity and health from my friends' cats that eat dry.
 
Welcome to FDMB! You've gotten off to an awesome start with the right dose of a great insulin and feeding canned food. As others have said, it sounds like the diet you were feeding before is much better than the rx diet.

You will find nothing but support here, and no one would think to call you a hoarder because you have opened your home and heart to so many kitties. It's clear you love and care for all of them, as you've spent your weekend reading about a worrisome dx for one of them. :)

I have no doubt you can do this and achieve wonderful results and a happy, healthy kitty. Keep up the great work, and don't hesitate to ask any questions you can think of. We're here to help. :)
 
I'm already impressed by you and all that you've learned!! Nicely done you!

Great advice already given so i'll just say: WELCOME!!

Keep the questions coming - Michele and Molly
 
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! Nelson was very happy to have his old food back this evening. He will eat wet over dry and his routine all along was to eat everyone else's wet food (leaving them with just dry) unless I shooed him back to his food dish. Well, now he will have no reason to mooch everyone else's wet food because that's all he will have! Next step is to try to lance the poor guy. The videos on YouTube make it look so easy, but I'm definitely going to have to warm up Nelson's ear because otherwise all I have is a frustrated cat. I have no problem with the injections because I have another cat who has been getting subcute allergy shots for several years now so I'm well practiced there. I'm looking forward to learning more and while I'm not happy that Nelson is diabetic, at least it's treatable and it was diagnosed before it was too late. We lost his brother to an untreatable cancer (sarcoma) a few years ago and am just glad there are resources to get Nelson regulated and help him to live out a good, happy life.
 
The video does make it look really easy. Be aware it may take awhile. The rice sock to warm the ear is vital. So is knowing where to poke. Put a flashlight behind Nelson's ear. You are looking for the little capillaries that run off the vein to the outer edge of the ear. If you put a dab of vaseline on the spot where you want to poke, that will help. And it will let the blood bead up and stay in the spot awhile.

We all have the things that worked for us. Try it on yourself first so you are very confident. Come back with questions. We love to help newbies!
 
Got his first blood test... 197 at feeding time. I know before eating is best but this was the only time I could get him... as he finished eating. Glad I was able to get a BG because based on what I'm seeing on here my gut is now telling me to hold off on his insulin this morning, especially since he didn't eat as ravenously this morning as he had been... acted closer to his normal behavior before he got sick. Especially since I also can't come home during the day today to monitor him due to an event at work.

I tried to get a BG last night several hours after his shot but the meter complained once I finally got a sample... guess the test strip was out too long or something.

Yesterday's urine tests have been steadily going down from consistent 1000s before, to 500, and then last night to 250 though that last sample wasn't the freshest. :-( No ketones.
 
Hi and welcometo FDMB

I see you've had plenty of good advice.
If you took that 197 as kitty was eating then it is a true number. Only if it's taken like 15 minutes or more would you expect there to be much impact, especially if your feeding low carb food.

Although thatis a diabetic number, it is a very low one, you have a good chance here.
The general rule without data to back up shots is a no shoot under 200
The fact that you only started giving insulin on Friday makes me wonder that with diet change he may not need insulin.
I know getting the hang of hometesting is a bit finnickity, but despite not giving insulin,how about etting a +1 (after eating as you've not given a shot) and maybe +2. Lets see what his pancreas may be able to do on it's own.

I missed if he is a graze eater or set meals?
He needs to be clear of food for around 1 1/2-2 hours to get a 'true' bg number that isn't affected by food.

There is the possibility thathe has already built his shed (Lantus builds up a depot in the body and isn't used immediately, bit like a petrol tank) Only when the body is empty does itdip into the shed supply (trying to give this in very basic laymans terms, don't mean to sound patronising).
You can click on the Lantus ISG and read the stickie about shed which explains in more detail.

If he has built his shed then he may need a smidge of insulin, this is why I am suggesting the spot checks even though he hasn't had a shot.Normally you are shooting what the number will be in 2 hours time (because Lantus is long acting takes time to kick in the system).However I agree with your decision to not shoot, though he may be above 200 in 2 hours. You just don't have the data to give you any clues.


If you can post what numbers you get then others can chime in on what dose if any you should shoot in 12 hours.

Great job that you got the 197 :mrgreen:
 
Wow... this is great!!

Like Kate said though, Lantus works a bit differently so there might be some insulin still working to get that number. That's ok. At this point you don't have enough data to shoot at numbers lower than 200... but you will be gathering data on which to rely. And the people that use Lantus will be able to take those numbers and help you interpret them so that you know if you should give insulin, and if so, how much.

Please keep us posted.
 
Ok, great, thanks. Nelson was already on a high quality, low carb diet which is why I didn't want to feed w/d. So other than a couple of days when I fed him w/d against my better judgment there's been no change in diet other than the fact that Wellness Core dry is totally off the menu (he wasn't eating much of it anyway, preferring the wet). I fed him his old food again starting last night and got the 197 this morning just as he finished eating. Didn't have a chance to go home today for lunch to test him again, and for the same reason thought it better to not give him his injection because I'd rather that his sugar go high than too low when no one is around to monitor him until we have a better idea of what his numbers are at different times of the day and how he's responding to the insulin.

Out of all my cats, 2 are very overweight. Nelson used to be overweight, not as bad as the 2 I was most concerned about but still heavy, back when he was a Science Diet kitty. However, he has been normal weight for a couple years now, averaging between 10-11 lbs., since I went to a lower carb, higher protein diet. He is the most active of the older cats. Up until recently, I was feeding them all 2 meals a day and allowing only the kittens to graze between meals because I was more concerned with weight management. Once Nelson began losing weight I allowed him to eat more between meals when he acted like he was hungry (and am still doing it esp. now that I know he's diabetic) but not really grazing because the fat cats would end up eating what is left out, not Nelson. That's another part of the reason why they got so overweight to begin with because they gorge when food is just left out. The kitties descended from the barn cats can graze just fine without getting overweight but unfortunately in a multicat household I can only allow grazing when the fatties don't have access to more food than they need.

The overweight cats have lost a bit of weight but need to lose more, and since Nelson was normal weight until he developed diabetes symptoms I made sure that he ate enough to maintain while the 2 enough to lose weight slowly. Nelson's brother Tux got as high as 25 lbs at one point (he was the one I was most concerned about, and he's not diabetic-yet) and is now down to 18 lbs. He is a bigger cat than Nelson so 13-14 lbs. would be a healthy weight for him. I don't know if we will ever get there but I was ecstatic when we finally got down under 20 after switching from Solid Gold to Wellness. Tux is more active now than he's been in years for obvious reasons. Morrison, who I think is part Maine Coon so is an even larger cat, got as high as 21 lbs but now ranges between 17-18 lbs. He's on medication for chronic allergies and until he came off steroids he had a harder time losing weight than Tux. 14-15 lbs would be healthy for him. The rest of our adult cats are in the 7 - 11 lb range depending on gender and size and are all healthy weights.

BTW, when I tested him this AM he hadn't eaten since the night before so it had been at least 8 hrs since he ate anything.
 
Boy, you sure do have a lot to think about when feeding! It sounds like you are doing marvelously with it all, and how great that Tux has lost weight. :) Keep it up, whatever you're doing.
 
Hi, I think the only thing you can consider is separating if feeding is going to be a problem.
I know it sounds mean, but I'm kind of hopeful for his numbers and that it may not be long term (no way of knowing for sure-besides we'd be millionaires if we could predict the future ;-) )

Other option-buying timers? that's if he can get his fair share?

Absolutely agree that you didn't shoot. Fab that the 197 was way after any food (hence my comment above)
 
OMG he was 180 tonight before eating, with no insulin today! No food out today since AM feeding since I was at work all day so that's a fasting BG. I'm afraid to shoot tonight as well!
 
You are right not to shoot any insulin. It's a higher than non-diabetic number but if you feed him some small meals to help the pancreas work, that may bring the BG down a bit.

I think you are doing well... and thank goodness you are testing! :smile:

No shot tonight... you can rest easy... but do get a spot check in if you can about an hour after he eats... that tells us what the pancreas is doing - if anything.
 
I just tested him about 10 min. ago (so about 2 1/2 hours after he finished eating) and he's a 203. I take that back... I did try to give him a small meal about an hour and change ago but he only ate a little. I know it's above 200 but not by much. I'll call my vet tomorrow because even though I now I know thanks to you guys that Lantus has a residual effect and it may run out and his BGs may go back up, 1 unit may be too much. It's certainly more than I'm comfortable with if 28 hours after his last shot he's borderline, and the last thing I want is for him to go hypo when I'm at work or sleeping!!! I'll have to find out from my vet what his BG was at the office. I know they initially urine sticked him and it was over 1000 but I also know they did a blood panel and the results are in now. His last urine check was 250 with no ketones. Throughout the weekend it was consistently 1000 until yesterday when it dropped off to 500 and then 250. Also, Nelson is not urinating NEAR as much as he was several days ago and his appetite has dropped off to normal.
 
Hi there

Aren't you glad you are testing blood glucose levels? :-D Now, urine glucose levels do not correspond at all with blood glucose levels. They simply tell you that the kidneys filtered glucose out of the blood at some point after the last time he urinated. That the levels are going down is a good sign though!

As for thoese bgs, yes, 200 is borderline. Don't be surprised if things go up a bit more in the coming days, indicating a slight need for insulin. It may only be needed for a short time though (fingers crossed).
 
All my other cats not otherwise on rx food are eating a mixture of Wellness Core dry
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I really hesitate posting this to someone with so many mouths to feed but...is there anyway that you can get all of your cats on an appropriate-moisture diet? There is no such thing as a 'quality' dry food when it comes to the unhealthy issue of water depletion - *especially* for any cat that has had urinary tract issues. All dry foods are.....dry.

I cannot stress enough how much diet is a 'pay me now or pay me later' issue.

Please see my Feline Urinary Tract Health page below - epecially the statements in the grey box at the top of the page.

Remember....it not just about carb content - the water content is equally - if not more - important for overall health - especially for the urinary tract system!
 
Tx everyone, and Dr. Lisa, I really have struggled with the food issue. Whenever I mention all wet or low carb to either of my 2 vets I get an argument. Nelson's and Muffin's vet is at least open to it and encouraged me to feed Muffin k/d wet but that stuff smells and tastes nasty because of the pork and she wouldn't go near it. The other vet (who is feral-friendly, but tends to treat first and test later) states that the all wet thing is a wives tale and that studies show that cats on dry food drink enough to offset it and don't get dehydrated. I'm assuming that Hills sponsors those studies? And I'm assuming that LSU Veterinary School who trains 99.999% of the vets in Louisiana gets funding from Hills? (Not an LSU fan. Sorry.) I would rather feed them all wet and will make a more concerted effort to get them all over. At one time they were 100% SD dry and while what I have them on now is an improvement over what they used to be I would really like for everyone to be on the SAME wet food, no matter what it is, including the 2 urinary kitties. That's more important to me than cost at this point... the ability to have them all on the same food. I already feed cats in separate rooms and separating them even more would be very difficult.

I couldn't get a BG this AM because the test strip didn't want to play (still learning) and I didn't have any more, but after going over to the Lantus ISG and reading the stickies, it looks like Nelson's shed was full. I gave him 1/2 unit this AM because I can go home today to check on him and will get more strips and get a 6+ BG one way or another. His urine glucose was up this AM, still no ketones. Urine output and hunger markedly decreased. He ate, but was really picky this AM, which is close to his normal behavior... everyone else's food is better than his, whether it's the same or different. :-) I'll make sure he eats something when I get home in a little bit.

I'll take this over to the LL if I have any more questions. Thanks again, everyone!
 
lowb35 said:
The other vet (who is feral-friendly, but tends to treat first and test later) states that the all wet thing is a wives tale and that studies show that cats on dry food drink enough to offset it and don't get dehydrated.
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That's the wives' tale... By the time a cat is thirsty enough to drink a lot, they are dehydrated.... They don't have the same sort of thirst mechanism we do and are physically made to get their hydration with their food. They hydrate better when there is moisture in the food, which is why so many of us add water to even the wet food. Don'd add water to the dry though - it will only make it rot faster. Wait... just for those following along at home, here is what Dr. Lisa says about this...


At http:/catinfo.org/ said:
If I could have the reader of this webpage take away just one word from this discussion, it would be "water". If your cat is on a properly hydrated diet of 100% canned food - and no dry food - you stand a very good chance of never needing to read this webpage.

Water is an extremely important nutrient that contributes to overall health in every living creature. Couple this with the fact that cats do not have a very strong thirst drive when compared to other species, and you will understand why it is critical for them to ingest a water-rich diet. The cat's lack of a strong thirst drive leads to low-level, chronic dehydration when dry food makes up the bulk of their diet.

A cat's normal prey contains approximately 70 - 75 percent water. Dry foods only contain 7-10 percent water whereas canned foods contain approximately 78 percent water. Canned foods therefore more closely approximate the natural diet of the cat and are better suited to meet the cat’s water needs.
I hear the reader saying ".....but my cat drinks a lot of water so he must be getting enough!"

A cat consuming a predominantly dry-food diet does drink more water than a cat consuming a canned food diet, but in the end, when water from all sources is added together (what’s in their diet plus what they drink), the cat on dry food consumes approximately half the amount of water compared with a cat eating canned food. This is a crucial point when one considers how common kidney and bladder problems are in the cat.

Please keep in mind that when your cat starts eating a more appropriately hydrated diet of canned food, his urine output will increase significantly - often doubling - which is a very good thing for bladder health. Think of canned food as 'hosing out' down your cat's bladder several times each day.
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The other wives' tale is that dry is good for their teeth. It's not.

About dental disease said:
Dental Disease: Long-standing claims that cats have less dental disease when they are fed dry food versus canned food are grossly overrated, inaccurate, and are not supported by recent studies. This frequently stated (among veterinarians and lay people) myth continues to harm cats by perpetuating the idea that their food bowls need to be filled up with an unhealthy diet in order to keep their teeth clean. The idea that dry food promotes dental health makes about as much sense as the idea that crunchy cookies would promote dental health in a human.

First, dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth. Second, a cat's jaws and teeth are designed for shearing and tearing meat - not biting down on dry kibble. Third, many cats swallow the majority of their dry food whole.

There are many factors – known and unknown - that contribute to dental disease in the cat such as genetics, viruses, and diet - and the fact that cats do not brush their teeth like humans do. There remain many unanswered questions concerning the fact that cats often suffer from poor dental health but one very obvious answer lies in the fact that Man feeds the cat a diet that does not even come close to what they would eat in their natural state.

When cats consume their prey in the wild, they are tearing at flesh, hide, bones, tendons, and ligaments. This is a far cry from the consistency of dry or canned food.

Neither dry kibble nor canned food comes close to mimicking a cat’s normal diet of mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Given what a cat does eat in nature, it makes much more sense to be feeding part of the diet in the form of large chunks of meat (as large as you can get your cat to chew on) or gizzards (tough and fibrous) which a cat’s teeth are designed to chew. Raw meat is ‘tougher’ to chew than cooked meat so I prefer to use raw – or parboiled - meat to promote dental health. See Making Cat Food - Dental Health.

Notice the phrase “part of the diet” in the above sentence. It is very important to understand that plain meat (ie - without bones or another source of calcium) is very unbalanced since there is minimal calcium in meat. Remember that when a cat eats his normal prey, he is consuming the bones along with the meat.
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Please do read Dr. Lisa's website FEEDING YOUR CAT: KNOW THE BASICS OF FELINE NUTRITION at http://www.catinfo.org. You will be amazed at what you learn and how common sense it all is. If your vets are interested, you can print off some of that for them. If they can't see the science behind it, they are in the wrong business. There is so much information on Dr. Lisa's site that you won't be able to absorb it all in one day... but the study is well worth the time and effort. You won't look at dry food and feline nutrition the same again.
 
Vic - thanks for posting the excerpts - that is really helpful.

I'm assuming that Hills sponsors those studies? And I'm assuming that LSU Veterinary School who trains 99.999% of the vets in Louisiana gets funding from Hills?
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Before I started this pet food crusade, I was utterly clueless and VERY naive about things like this. I figured that everyone in the pet food industry was good and honest and cared about animals.

Going one step further, I always thought that all vets were smart and had a high level of common sense.

I have never been one to shout "conspiracy!!"

However.....my tune has changed drastically as I watch the criminal (also a word that I rarely use) relationshiop between vets and pet food companies. Mainly this applies to the vets who should know better (the nutritionists) rather than the general practitioners. The GPs are usually just so busy and not interested in the boring subject of nutrition so that they maintain the ring in their nose implanted by the pet food companies and the pet food companies take part of their cues from vet nutritionists.

The vet nutritionists, on the other hand (when compared with GP vets), know better. However, their paychecks are often directly or indirectly linked to the pet food companies.

Therein lies the HUGE conflict of interest.

You may want to ask your vets....."ok...so if you think that cats consume the same amount of water on dry food as they do on canned, how do you explain the studies that show otherwise? And......if your assumption is true, then why is it that every journal article and the urology specialists on VIN talk about water...water...water....canned food...canned food...canned food when treating urinary tract-issue patients?"

Why is it that it is documented that cats produce much more urine when on canned food than on dry food? And..actually....I just read on VIN a quote to that effect by Dr. Claudia Kirk - one of the boarded Hill's nutritionists.

I could go on and on but my hands are falling off from typing.

It just hurts to see my colleagues using so little common sense.

Oh...on a GREAT note.....my Tips for Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food article made it to the FrontPage on VIN yesterday!! It is under the "Pearls of Wisdom" section.

Progress....slowly.....

I have had a couple of vets ask me if they could print the 'Tips' for their newsletters this month.
 
Lisa dvm said:
Oh...on a GREAT note.....my Tips for Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food article made it to the FrontPage on VIN yesterday!! It is under the "Pearls of Wisdom" section.

Progress....slowly.....

I have had a couple of vets ask me if they could print the 'Tips' for their newsletters this month.
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CONGRATULATIONS!!! That is wonderful news... for you and for a lot of cats!! Is there a link to it that I can pass onto my vets?
 
The 'Tips' PDF is linked in the sidebar at catinfo.org. I think it is the second link from the top.

VINers can go to the VIN Library and it is linked in the sidebar there.

It is probably easiest to get off of my website. The PDF is 8 pages long. Yes...I am long-winded.

If copied front to back, you only kill 4 pages worth of trees. :-D

My friend copied it off of VIN and it was 13 pages long....they had forgotten to add a link to the 8 page PDF....which I reminded them to do..and they did...last week.

What I did for my friend was make copies for him so that they would be readily available for his clients. I would suggest doing that for your vet. Make a few copies to get him/her started.

Or just make one copy for them but then they have to have a double-sided copier if they want to keep it to 4 pieces of paper.
 
That's great, thanks.... I'll just say... "Hey Dr. Vettybean...Did you see this on the front page of VIN? It's in the sidebar of the library. The link to the VIN is here http://www.vin.com/VIN.plx?P=Veterinarians and here is the document to which they refer http://www.catinfo.org/TipsforTransitio ... -18-09.pdf. This would be a great handout for those feline diabetic caregivers who need to switch their kitties over to low carb wet food."


:twisted: Just another way to get that low carb wet food plug in again.
 
On another good note....when I find the time.....I have been asked to present a CE or Rounds session on VSPN in this issue of dry => canned.

Now...I just need more hours in my day........but at least it is progress to be asked to address this issue on VSPN which is an offshoot of VIN.

VSPN....I think it stands for Vet Support Personnel Network...or something line that...but its target is techs/vets/other support staff of vet hospitals.
 
Lisa dvm said:
On another good note....when I find the time.....I have been asked to present a CE or Rounds session on VSPN in this issue of dry => canned.

Now...I just need more hours in my day........but at least it is progress to be asked to address this issue on VSPN which is an offshoot of VIN.

VSPN....I think it stands for Vet Support Personnel Network...or something line that...but its target is techs/vets/other support staff of vet hospitals.
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That is great news, too! I'm tempted to break into song ("Start spreadin' the wo-oooord...") but I can't carry a tune in a bucket so I will spare you all. ;)
 
These are great ideas... I know my vet is open to new things and will follow up. She really is a good vet aside from the food thing which it sounds like is very common. Thanks to her persistence in looking up new clinical studies (and my persistence in hanging with the cat, who many people would have put down after what we went through!) we finally got my uberallergic cat Morrison to where he is happy and comfortable and not tearing himself up anymore without steroids. I talked to her yesterday about Nelson and she was very pleased with his progress. I found out his BG at the office was over 460 so his consistently staying at or below 200 is progress. I know that it might have been elevated due to going to the vet but he was probably more stressed out at home because I'm a newb at lancing and his poor ears show it. (I think I finally have it down. This AM went *very* well on the first try.) She was a bit surprised that I was testing BG and asked me where I was pricking him. We also talked about food and Nelson's decreased appetite and she said that she would write me a script for Purina DM if I wanted it, and that canned was ok. In a sneaky way I'm taking that as tacit approval of a low carb wet diet, even though I know that we were really talking more about palatability than the radically differing approaches between w/d and DM.

Anyway, yesterday I went to a local feed store which has a wider variety of Wellness canned foods than at PETCO. I got some canned Core as well as a couple of big 12 oz cans each of their grain free chicken and turkey. I know most of my cats love the chicken because I was feeding it for a while, but I had gone back to the Authority because I had one recalcitrant cat who wouldn't go near it. I fed the Core canned last night and it was a huuuge hit, especially for Nelson who begged for more before bedtime. I had just enough left this morning to give Nelson and the kittens, and the rest had the grain free chicken, which even the aforementioned recalcitrant cat ate like a champ.

All in all I think we are moving in the right direction. Nelson's AMPS was 204 today and 187 yesterday (I wasn't able to get him this morning until around 15-20 min after he started eating) so has been very consistent between 175 and 205 regardless of what time of day I get a BG. Plus he is eating and acting normally, urinating much less, and according to our Wii Fit Plus (I know, not the most accurate) has gained .7 lb since late last week.
 
Hi!

You mentioned your uberallergic cat Morrison in your last post. My Folly is the cat in allergy hell and I'd love to know what you're doing for Morrison. After much angst we have Folly fairly stable, but I can always use more information and ideas.

Gia & Quirk (GA)

Guilt trips are a detour from life
 
We now have Morrison on cyclosporine (compounded... we tried Atopica and it didn't work as well) and just started him on doxepin about a month and a half ago now. Fortunately the doxepin doesn't make him lethargic even though it's an anti anxiety drug--my vet wanted to try it first because it's also a strong antihistamine. Also, he had developed a yeast infection (apparently common in allergic cats) which has now been treated. He was tested for that when he first was diagnosed with allergies but not again until recently. We are bathing him 1x/week in order to control the yeast and his allergens in general. That is fun but helpful. Also found out that Revolution is the best flea treatment for cats with flea allergies. He has been on and off miserable for over 3 years now and cross fingers FINALLY seems to be stabilized. He was itching constantly, overgrooming, tearing himself up even with an e-collar (smart cat-he found ways). He still has an e-collar on but now that the last of his sores is just about healed may experiment with it off under supervision. His allergies was one of the reasons why I initially switched all my cats away from SD and started looking at healthier options even though he (supposedly) doesn't have food allergies. Though he threw up SD on a regular basis and does not throw up grain free foods. When he was skin tested the only thing he didn't react to was the saline control. The dermatologist said she'd never seen anything like it up until then. Though since then I've talked to another owner whose cat almost went into shock with the skin test and they had to administer emergency steroids.

Allergy injections had no effect on Morrison. He took those for over 2 years when finally my vet and I gave up because they did nothing. But they do help many animals.

Based on what I've read (and my vet has seen the same things) is that multiple modalities may be needed to control chronic allergies--there isn't always a magic bullet. Also, we just had a very hard freeze here and the true test of how things are working will be once allergy season starts, which in Louisiana is most of the year. This is a bad area for allergies and since Morrison is originally a Tennessee cat he might have been better off where he used to live... though his owners couldn't take care of him which is why we have him now.

PM me if you want more details, or maybe we can take this over to one of the civvy threads.
 
lowb35 said:
I'm assuming that Hills sponsors those studies?
Click to expand...

I like you. :mrgreen: I just have such a HUGE hatred of Hills. The food isn't really any worse than a lot of stuff out there, but at least Chef's Blend isn't being prescribed by vets. So it's the company, the way they tout themselves and the marketing. Though I'm not sure why they need to push dry when they make canned. Oh wait... stupid me. ohmygod_smile The dry is cheaper to make, right?

And your vet still hung up on the rx food - just Purina instead. You really should ask your vet why a cat should need a prescription to eat a cat-appropriate diet?

I should stop this -- I just like going off about food entirely too much. LOL.
 
Hey Dr. Lisa, very interesting post about your former naivete' and the nutritionists and such. Another post I'll have to bookmark.

And congrats!! I like that something is also geared towards techs and support people. The techs just follow what the vets say. I hang out other places with techs and it just gets difficult to be believed over someone who has credentials. (Even though they have no nutrition credentials, but no one knows that.)
 
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