New diabetic kitty, Piggy

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Brian73

Member Since 2013
Hi, my name is Brian and I have just begun treating my female cat, Piggy, for diabetes. I will start by saying this forum is great and I would like to give a huge thank you to all the people here who help and encourage others :)

My Piggy is a 13 year old black domestic shorthair that I adopted as a kitten from a local humane society in Milwaukee, WI. About 2 months ago I became concerned about her health when she started peeing outside of the box and had started having some troubles with her hind legs which I assumed was possibly arthritis because of her age. I first took her to a vet about a month ago but they were unable to get a good urine sample but with what they did get they said she might be diabetic. At that point I started researching feline diabetes and decided I would try a holistic approach and I eliminated hard food from her diet. That was going just fine until this past weekend when she became lethargic, seems to be very weak and didnt move very much so I took her to the vet today. Today the vet confirmed that she has diabetes and I am ready to jump in with both feet on insulin injections and home blood testing. I did her first insulin injection myself today at the vet. The issue I have is that the poor economy has severely effected my job and I dont have much money to spare nor can I take on any credit card debt. Hopefully I can somehow do this with minimal vet trips as that is the most expensive part of treating my kitty and I am willing to do anything I can myself. Any advice is appreciated :) The specifics of my case are:

* Piggy, 13 years old
* 13 pounds: overweight but lost a little, not sure if its from diabetes or from changing her diet.
* prescribed 2 units of Prozinc twice a day. Vet charged $160 for 10ml but I see I can order it for like $100.
* current food: Friskies canned and canned tuna occasionally. I will be eliminating any Friskies with gravy.
* my mother is diabetic and I will be getting a blood tester and strips from her. She gets them free somehow.

Piggy has a good appetite even though she isnt feeling well currently. I have a urine sample that I will be giving to the vet tomorrow. I was a bit bent out of shape and dont remember what her blood sugar level was from today but from what I have read that number can be much higher due to vet stress. He did say that it was high enough that she would most likely never be in remission. I should have more in depth blood results tomorrow, I think. The vet is trying to sell me diabetic food but from what I have read here it isnt worth it. This was my first time to this vet and I didnt really like him, he seemed to get irritated with me for asking questions.
 
You've done your homework, Brian, and are doing great things for PIggy. Have you gotten any tests at home yet? Do you need ideas for getting started with testing? It's great you can get the supplies from your mother. Friskies is a good, inexpensive food. Yes, the pates are the lowest carb. ProZinc is a good insulin.

We do like to see new diabetics start low and go slow. We suggest starting at one unit and then increase by small amounts as the hometesting numbers guide you.

Here is a document with lots of info/links about ProZinc:

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799
 
welcome to you and piggy - what a cute name.

you can manage diabetes economically and we can help with that. for example, if you home test, you won't have to bring piggy to the vet for tests - $$ saved

get a prescription from the vet for prozinc and price shop it at online pet pharmacies - 1800petmeds will match any price you find from an accredited vet pharmacy. and yes you will save $$ than buying from the vet. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=88089

regarding food - friskies canned is fine - but you want to give pate style, no slices, chunks, diced, or gravy - please check out dr. lisa's site for a list of low carb foods - you want to stay under10% and my preference is 5% or less http://www.catinfo.org - you an find the food chart on the right hand side of her site

removing all dry food, including treats - temptations, pounce, etc - all are too high in carbs - here is a iist of low carb healthy treats - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

you can buy a meter and strips inexpensively - go to walmart and pick up a relion meter and matching strips - be sure to get one that takes a small sample - also get - lancets, and ketostrips - all available in diabetes section and/or behind pharmacy counter.


there are tricks to testing and here is a link - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

while you are at it - put together your hypo tool box -just in case you ever need it - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354


oh and starting at 2 units, we consider that a high starting dose and recommend starting at 1 unit or even 1/2 unit every 12 hours. and we also suggest when first starting, to not give insulin if the bg is 200 or under - this is just to keep the cat safe and as you start testing and collecting data, which you will put into your spreadsheet - you will be able and even encourage to shoot under 200.

yes here is the link to spreadsheets - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207


is piggy walking on her hocks, you know flat footed and not on her toes? does she have trouble walking - if yes, then she may have diabetic neuropathy and along with giving insulin, we recommend using Methylcobalamin B12 - it must be this type of b12 -

http://www.laurieulrich.com/jasper/methylresource.html

this is the place to ask questions and get help - how else may we help?
 
Hi Brian. I am a newbie myself so I won't be giving any advice. I just wanted to say welcome to the board!!!
The people on here are absolute angels and you are in good hands. I guess what advice I would give is to make sure you read through the information that is provided...and print it out if you can. There is too much to remember. Good job on being a proactive sugar baby guardian. I'll be following and contributing where I can.
Welcome again!!!
 
Thank you all for the information and encouragement :) I will drop the dose of Prozinc down to one unit to start as recommended. I am taking her back to the vet later today with a urine sample and I should have more information tonight. I should also have my BG meter tonight and will be ready to go with that.
 
Meanwhile, Brian, you might get her conditioned to the idea of being poked. Decide on a place where she will be tested. Some people like the kitchen counter, some like between their knees, we liked the couch near to the arm so we could press him into the arm and keep him there if we needed. Take her there, mess with her ears and praise her and give her a low carb treat. Do that a couple times and then add warming the ear (rice sack, warm washcloth, prescription pill bottle filed with very warm water), always praise and treats. The hope is by the time you add the poke, she is ready and knows a treat is coming!
 
Welcome Brian & Piggy

Take a look at my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools, especially urine ketone testing. Ketones are a by-product of fat break down for calories. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) an expensive to treat (hospitalization), potentially fatal, complication of diabetes.
 
Thank you Sue and Oliver and BJM :)

Well I just got back from round 2 at the vets in which I provided a urine sample, Piggy has a severe urinary tract infection and was prescribed Clavamox drops (charged $41 by vet) which I am supposed to give her for 2 weeks. There were a small amount of ketones in her urine but the vet didnt seem alarmed about the amount. The results from yesterdays blood work came back also and Piggy had a glucose level of 431. From the urine sample I gave the vet today which was urine from last night her glucose level was 260 ( this was after her first insulin injection). The vet said 260 was a good level, I did not tell him I reduced his recommended insulin amount (2 units) to the recommended level people on the forum here said I should do (1 unit). The vet was very much against me ordering Prozinc from an online retailer but I see most people here doing so so I am not worried about it. The vet also wanted me to bring my cat back to him tomorrow so he could check his BG and seemed shocked when I declined and said I was going to test it myself. Is this vet just out to make money off me or just not a believer in non vets treating a disease? He did want me to hospitalize my cat yesterday and seemed pretty irritated that I refused which I did because he did not have the bloodwork or urine sample to make an accurate diagnosis, he was going by visual inspection only. I do know I should have a vet check my cats urine at the end of her Clavamox treatments. I'm pretty sure today was the last time I will have seen that vet as I did not like him one bit.

What do you guys/gals think of any of this? What do you think of my cats glucose levels and should I stick with the 1 units of Prozinc every 12 hours? I will be doing my very first home BG reading attempt tonight. At what reading should I not give my cat insulin? Thank you in advance :)
 
If there were any ketones in her urine sample, I would proceed cautiously. Ketones are nothing to fool with, particularly if there is an infection present?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm

Do you have ketone strips at home and can monitor carefully? Can you get a test tonight. (both ketones and blood glucose level would be good) That will be the best indicator of how much insulin to give.

We suggest new diabetics not shoot under 200, but wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest, to make sure the number is rising and that it is high enough to shoot. A regulated cat is in the mid 200s at preshot and under 100 midcycle, but not in the 40s, which are hypo territory.
 
I've been alerting people that are new to home testing, to this wonderfu, insightful doc written by member Kpassa.

It goes beyond the testing tips that we usually point people to and is talking about the psychology of ear testing and what you can do to make the cat feel more comfortable and accepting.

https://sites.google.com/site/michelangeloprofilefdmb/feline-diabetes/ear-testing-psychology

I also belief that cats pick up on our mood, our stress, our anxiety level very easily so feel it is important for the tester to be calm, cool, collected and confident. I know, this can be very hard to do but it is important. Take 10-12 deep breaths, a sip of wine ;-) , have a piece of chocolate or whatever it takes to calm you down before you test your kitty, Piggy.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum

The UTI could well be spiking Piggys blood glucose so she may well drop once that has cleared. Also a change to a lower carb food will help ie Friskies pates (no gravy ones)

Urine glucose unfortunately isnt a very good indicator of what is going on since it depends on how long the cat has been holding it, how much they had to drink in the last few hours, the urine concentration etc. You will know a lot more from blood testing at home.


Wendy
 
I have had my cat on canned food, Friskies, for about a month now but I did not know the gravies were bad so I will be eliminating them.

About what Wendy and Tiggy said about UTI spiking BG levels: I asked the vet I was just at about that and he said the UTI didnt spike BG levels. This is a new vet to me and I do not like him one bit, I will not be returning to him. I do trust what I am hearing on the forums here more than what this vet has been telling me. I also read that vet visit stress also spikes BG levels.

* this vet is also trying to sell me prescription diabetic cat food, DM or something, but I intend to stick with Friskies patte. I assume the vet food is expensive and only suggested so this vet can make more money off me.
 
you are correct prescription food is expensive and not high quality food - certainly no better than the friskies you are using.

unfortunately, many vets don't understand this and are not up to speed on proper diets. they get little to no training about nutrition in vet school and the rest of their "training" comes from the pet food companies - and what do you think those companies will promote - the expensive prescription foods.

for me personally, this is a subject that I do not discuss with the vets and if my cats ever have to stay at the vet - I bring their food and treats with clear instructions this is all they are allowed to feed - I label everything and then hope for the best that they follow my instructions. ;-)

regarding the UTI - please read this link from dr. lisa about this subject - http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

in addition, and I learned this here from the board - the only way to truly test for a UTI is to do a C&S (culture and sensitivity urine test) which is a sterile urine draw - bringing in a sample from home is not sterile, the only way for it to be sterile is for the vet to insert a long needle directly into the bladder - here is more information:

http://www.medicalhealthtests.com/patho ... lture.html

there is nothing wrong with ordering drugs/insulin, etc online - do you have maintenance drugs that you personally use - do you go to the pharmacy or get them through mail order? how is that different than order from a vet pharmacy like 1800petmeds.? it is not - and think about - where do you think your vet gets his drug supply? from pharmacy who mails it to him. again, as long as you go to an accredited place, your drugs should be fine.

now that you are home testing - there is no need to take piggy in for a day or even a week of testing. all you will do is spend money you don't have.

however, given that there were ketones in the urine sample, you do need to do a ketone test daily - which is testing Piggy's urine - in order to ensure you do not have high ketones - you can also smell her breath and if it smells like nail polish remover - then you may need to take her to the vet so they can flush the ketones out - which can be done by sub q or IV fluids. this is serious as you don't want it to develop into DKA - which can result in a long and expensive hospital stay.
 
I asked the vet I was just at about that and he said the UTI didnt spike BG levels.
Click to expand...

UTI = pain
Pain = stress
Stress = elevated BG values.

Vet = mistaken?
 
Great... Piggy has stopped eating which I believe is being caused by the antibiotics, Clavamox, prescribed for her urinary tract infection. If she wont eat tomorrow morning before her scheduled insulin shot should I hold off on the insulin until she eats? Should the vet have told me something like this would happen, if he even knows himself?
 
Darn. Will she eat the old food? You definitely want her to eat, even if it is not the best low carb. The combination of not eating, an infection and no insulin can cause DKA, which can be deadly.

I think Clamavox can cause tummy upsets. FortiFlora is a probiotic that can increase her appetite. Pepcid can also be used to help with tummy troubles. This thread explains what kind and how much:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45442

Be sure to get a ketone test daily. If you catch ketones early, it is less likely to develop into DKA.
 
Thanks Sue, no she isnt eating anything. I tried tuna, tuna with catnip sprinkled on it ;) tried milk, cat treats, tried adding water to the soft food to make "gravy", tried some small chunks of chicken breast from my dinner last night. I did squirt a small portion of melted coconut oil into her mouth which she ingested. I will look into putting food in a syringe and maybe getting her some deli ham, she usually goes nuts over it, tomorrow morning. She is drinking water so that is good and I will ketone and BG test tomorrow and probably try the pepcid ac. Maybe the Clavamox dose she got today will be weakened enough for her to eat in the morning, hopefully..
 
Brian,

If she's got an infection present, and she's not eating, and you've recently reduced her dose of insulin, that's "the recipe" for ketones. You mentioned that your vet found a small amount of ketones in her urine, right?

Please get the ketone strips ASAP! I can't overstate the danger of ketones. My cat went from "none" to DKA in just 3 days, and he almost died. He spent 3 days in the ER.

In the meantime, try your best to get her to eat, and if possible water down the food. What she needs right now is food and fluids. And insulin, but you don't want to be giving big doses with no food on board. If necessary, you can syringe feed her with the watered down mixture.

And if you smell anything that smells like acetone or nail polish remover on her breath, she needs to see a vet immediately.
 
You can also use a teaspoon of plain yogurt a couple hours after the antibiotic to restore some of the normal bacteria.

Dehydration checks
- check 1: gently pull up the scruff of the neck and release. If it stays tented up, she is moderatelt to severely dehydrated and needs fluids.
- check 2: lift a lip and press your finger on her gums then remove. If it is slow to turn back to pink, you may have mild dehydration or more.
- check 3: do the gums feel tacky/sticky? Another clue.
 
Piggy is still not eating and I havent given her her morning insulin shot .. I just did a BG test on her with the result of 74. That is a great number right? Not saying I should stop giving her insulin. I will test again in a little bit to see if there is any difference.

* I did give her 1 unit Prozinc at about 5:30 pm last night, it is now 6:30 am

* I am watching for her to urinate so I can get a ketone test.

To Carl & Bob, yes the vet found a small amount of ketones in her urine yesterday.
 
She has to eat! Within 2 days of not eating anything, fat breakdown for calories may overwhelm the liver and cause hepatic lipidosis, which can be fatal.

Keep working the syringe feeding and contact your vet for 1) an antinausea med and 2) an appetite stimulant. You must have something for nausea (when present) on board before giving an appetite stimulant.

No insulin until and unless she tests over 200, right now. It wouldn't be safe.
And given this mornings number being too low to shoot, I'd cut it back to 1 unit. You want a dose that is safe to give, yet does not take her below 50.
 
thanks BJM, I have already dropped the dose to 1 unit as recommended by people here, the vet wanted her on 2 units. I will be making a trip to the grocery store once the deli opens to pick up some ham, which Piggy usually loves, in an attempt to get her to eat.

I am pretty shocked at that my vet would put her on the antibiotics that killed her appetite without even telling me or knowing that I might run into this problem. I will be finding a different vet today as this one has been a mostly bad experience throughout (I just started seeing this guy since I recently moved and wanted someone close to my new home).

It is time for me to give her her next dose of Clavamox but I am afraid since I think this might make her not want to eat even more.
 
Get some Pepcid too, Brian (see my earlier link). She needs to eat. The low number this morning at least takes the worry of having to give insulin out of the picture. Definitely a low number and not for any amount of insulin.
 
here are some ideas:
Enticing a Cat to Eat

Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat:

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
FortiFlora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
parmesean cheese
smashed crumbles of dry food
bonito/tuna flakes (Can be found at Asian markets or sometimes in the Asian food section of a large grocery store.)
halo chicken treats (freeze dried chicken) -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
pour a little water from tuna in water over food (I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats and it shouldn't contain soy -- check labels)
powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
trader joe tuna for cats
baby food -- beechnut or Gerber Stage 2 -- you want a baby food that is only a protein + broth (although the Gerber contains cornstarch). It should have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
kentucky fried chicken
deli turkey /chicken
plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
chicken broth -- low sodium

If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)
Click to expand...
 
Brian73 said:
...I will be finding a different vet today as this one has been a mostly bad experience throughout (I just started seeing this guy since I recently moved and wanted someone close to my new home)....
Click to expand...

You can do a Google Maps search and enter veterinarian loc: your address to see a map of vets near you. Sometimes, there are reviews.

If you care to share your city and state (city and country), we may have some members near you who can recommend a vet.

My signature link Vet Interview Topics has some questions you might want to ask.
 
I see that Wendy suggested picking up baby food while at the store - usually Beechnut Stage 1 - is a good choice - there are several meat varieties - pick up a few jars and try spoon/syringe feeding that to her.

You need to get food into her system.

And clavamox does contain amoxicillin which is a derivative of pencillin and that could be the reason it doesn't agree with her. Maui can't take clavamox for that reason.
 
Very bad news, I suspect Piggy is gone, I cannot hear her breathing or a heartbeat. I was only gone an hour to get her some deli meat to try to make her eat. I am taking her to a different vet right now but I'm pretty sure she is gone. I did not give her insulin as she was at 74 BG just this morning.
 
Much appreciation for all the support... Piggy has passed.. She had a BG of 74 this morning and was not eating so I went out to get her some things I thought she might eat. I had skipped giving her her morning insulin because of the low BG. Upon arriving home maybe an hour and half later I found her extremely lethargic and coughing a bit. I tested her BG and it was at 48 and I squirted some maple syrup into her mouth in an attempt to bring her sugar back up. I think she was gone before I did that as she made no attempt to swallow or spit it out.

I am extremely sad but somewhat glad she passed before having to go through more trauma. She has always been a very nervous cat and didnt really like anyone other than my wife and I so I can only imagine the stress she felt with the vet visits, poking, and prodding that she had been through since she became sick.

I think the vet I had been seeing did more harm than good. Sure it was good that I was able to get Piggy diagnosed and get medications but I do not think this vet knew all that much about these medications and their side effects nor did he give me ANY support on taking care of her at home or what I should do in an adverse situation or emergency. I learned all of that here and I thank everyone here for contributing and offering support. This forum is wonderful.

I still have another little buddy, Jose, who is 3yrs old, to keep me company. The grey cat in my avatar. If anything this has taught me that I cant just feed him bad food and expect not to possibly pay for it later.

I have a mostly full bottle of Prozinc I would like to donate to someone who needs it, and also a mostly full bottle of Clavamox drops.. Not sure how I could send that to someone while keeping it cold. Maybe I should just see if the local humane society would want it?

Again, thank you all.
Sincerely,
Brian (very sad)
 
oh Brian - so very sad for your loss.
You did everything you could for her and I'm sure she knew how much you cared for her.

Hoping Jose continues to help you overcome Piggy's loss and that the 2 of you grow even closer.

wings_cat
 
Oh Brian, I am so sorry to hear this. You were trying so hard to learn all you could, as fast as you could, to help your sweet Piggy. I hope it brings you peace, and a smile, to remember the good times. She was a lucky kitty to be rescued and know love, to have delicious things to eat, a warm place to sleep and a friend to play with. What more could a kitty want?
 
My deepst sympathy to you Brian, and to your wife, on the lost of your beloved Piggie. Sometimes diabetes is a secondary disease but the first one to show up and we don't always know what the main disease might have been. You did everything you could at this moment in time with the knowledge you had. I am so sorry Piggie is gone. wings_cat Piggie rb_icon
 
I'm sad to see Piggy is gone. I hope it was peaceful for her.

Your local humane society might be able to use the Clavamox; give them a call.

DCIN might be able to point you to one of their folks who could use the insulin, too.
 
Fly free, little Piggy, into eternal love, comfort and rest.
I'm truly sorry for your loss. She is in good company while she waits on the other side of the Rainbow Bridge.
 
I am so sorry. fly free sweet Piggy. you are much loved and will be sorely missed.

Brian, feel free to come back and visit if you ever have any questions/concerns regarding Jose - it doesn't have to be diabetes, we can offer support and help on many subjects.
 
I'm so sorry you lost your little Piggy. You did everything you could for her, sometimes we just don't have the answers or the cures.
 
Piggy, we hardly knew ye. You will be sorely missed by your dad Brian and your mommy.

Fly free little one. You earned your wings too soon. wings_cat
 
Brian

I am so sorry for the loss of your Piggy, what a horrible thing to have to go through. Sending condolences to you and your family.

Terri
 
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