New Diabetic Cat Owner

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Mary Zashin

Member Since 2022
Hello, my 13 year old cat Princess was just diagnosed with diabetes...I have been able to give her shots, 2 units glargine 2xday....I immediately switched her to recommended canned food...her appetite is down some, but she is eating...she did stop drinking a ton of water and peeing a ton...she is sleeping a lot but it's winter and she likes to lie in the sun....also, I didn't realize I should not have used my full name here (!)...can I change it? I would like to learn about home testing...if I can use a human meter, what reading should I look for? And I would like some honest input about prognosis...thanks, Mary Z. Oh...the date is 12/19/22..sorry I didn't read the welcome email first!
 
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Hi and welcome Mary and Princess ,you couldn't have found a better forum
You are using a good insulin for Princess

How was she diagnosed did the vet run a fructosamine test, that will give you her BG numbers for the prior 2 weeks
I will give you a link to tap on , it will explain how to st up your signature which is at the end of everyone's post in gray, it's information we need about Princess.
It will also explain how to set up our spreadsheet , we enter our cats BG numbers there to see how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping, that's how we adjust the dose , whether to increase or decrease it, that's when you get your meter and start to home test
If you need help with setting up the spreadsheet just ask we have a members who will be happy to do it for you. I will also give you some other links to read
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
It will also explain how the spreadsheet works

A human meter is just fine, that's what our numbers are based on
If you live in the US you can pick up from Walmart The Relion Premier Classic meter and test strips

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103. 9 dollars

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197. 17.88 for 100


The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120.
On a human meter, 50 is your “take action” number
Meaning you will need to intervene with food to bring the BG number up to safe numbers


When starting out we suggest you don't shoot any number under 200
. If you get a BG below 200 stall, don’t feed and post and ask for help, and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is arising
You can say Help Stalling BG then the number
 
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About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Here is another link you can look at
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

As for treats for testing
You can give any freeze dried treats they are all low carb
Tap on this blue link and read post #64 the post numbers are to the right of each post and you can read about the freeze dried treats I listed

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-to-this-i-need-advice.269452/#post-3007388

You can even give plain boiled chicken pieces

We like to give a treat before testing and after so she will associate getting a treat for testing her. Try to always bring her to the same spot when you test

I don't think having your complete name is a problem but if you want to change it tap on your name all the way up top then tap on contact detail and to the left all the way at the bottom it will say change username. You might have to wait for a certain time in order to change it, I totally forgot

You can put Mary and Princess

You can read all about Glargine here , I suggest you read all the yellow stickys there
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Feel free to ask as many questions you want to and if I can't answer them I can tag some experienced members for you

If it wasn't for their advice Tyler wouldn't be in remission today since 1-24-21 ( knock on wood )

In your title you could add after New Diabetic Cat Owner Mary and Princess
To do that to the right you will see the word Thread Tools, tap on that , then tap on Edit Title and add it ,then tap save

Oh you might want to add today's date in front of the word New 12-19
 
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Thanks, Diane, for all the helpful information. I think I managed to load the spreadsheet but I don't have a meter to test with yet...she is very lethargic, came down to eat about noon, not since, which is atypical...I gave her the shot after she ate...I dunno...
 
So a few questions, if I may...I stopped all kibble...had some Friskies and Fancy Feast of the low-carb varieties recommended by this website https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Is this good info? The vet "prescribed" Hills glucosupport, and I have three cans...it is quite expensive...she is just sleeping today and I wonder if I cut her carbs too quickly...she doesn't seem to show any of the other signs of hypoglycemia...but I don't know...the vet wants her next week for a glucose curve...also can I still give her greenies for her teeth?
 
Thanks, Diane, for all the helpful information. I think I managed to load the spreadsheet but I don't have a meter to test with yet...she is very lethargic, came down to eat about noon, not since, which is atypical...I gave her the shot after she ate...I dunno...
New member not testing switched to wet food not testing yet cat lethargic 2units Lantus. When did you give her, her shot last? Not trying to scare you but if she's lethargic & you gave her 2units it's possible she was to low when you gave her her shot. I'm going to tag an experienced member @Bandit's Mom
 
Well, she just now hopped off the bed and came down for food...looks like she's still drinking a lot of water...
 
We are all in different time zones so I'm not sure when your noon is. How many hours ago was it that you gave her her shot?
I'm in Central Time, Illinois...just after 9PM now, so about nine hours ago...she's eating...I think I need to wait until around midnight to give her the second shot...?
 
I'm in Central Time, Illinois...just after 9PM now, so about nine hours ago...she's eating...I think I need to wait until around midnight to give her the second shot...?
Okay yes that would be 12hrs from your am shot. How soon can you get a meter test strips & lancets? With you switching her over to wet food & not testing can be very dangerous if you don't know what her BG is before giving insulin. Once you have them on wet food her numbers will go down quite a bit. I'm going to try & find another experienced member to see if you need to give a lower dose until you can start testing her. I'm not experienced enough to give dosing advice.
 
Hi Mary & Princess! Welcome to FDMB :-)

So a few questions, if I may...I stopped all kibble...had some Friskies and Fancy Feast of the low-carb varieties recommended by this website https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Is this good info? The vet "prescribed" Hills glucosupport, and I have three cans...it is quite expensive...she is just sleeping today and I wonder if I cut her carbs too quickly...she doesn't seem to show any of the other signs of hypoglycemia...but I don't know...the vet wants her next week for a glucose curve...also can I still give her greenies for her teeth?
Please feel free to ask as many questions as you want :-)

A change to a low carb diet can significantly impact a kitty's BG numbers and greatly reduce the need for insulin. So any transition in diet when already on insulin, has to be made gradually and with careful monitoring of the BG (with home testing) and insulin requirements. We have had cats that have gone off insulin with just a change from high carb kibble to a low carb canned diet. I would not continue to give 2U if I did not have any idea of her BG after the diet change.

Home testing is the best way to keep them safe. Testing them at home is less stress than taking them to the vet for a curve. It does not hurt them and it is just a matter of establishing a routine. With time and practice it becomes just one more thing they get used to – like insulin shots. You want to get a glucose meter and start testing her at home to see how she responds to the food change. Tests/curves done at the vet can show inflated readings due to stress.

Hill's M/D Glucosupport (both wet and dry) is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. You need not restrict yourself to prescription food. Many of our US members feed Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies Pates or 9-Lives Ground because they get less than 10% of their calories from carbs. They are also easy to find and affordable.

Greenies are seriously high carb. That dry food is good for cats' teeth is yet another myth perpetuated by cat food companies. This is from Dr. Lisa Pierson's website:

"Dental Disease: Long-standing claims that cats have less dental disease when they are fed dry food versus canned food are grossly overrated, inaccurate, and are not supported by studies. This frequently stated (among veterinarians and lay people) myth continues to harm cats by perpetuating the idea that their food bowls need to be filled up with an unhealthy diet in order to keep their teeth clean.

The idea that dry food promotes dental health makes about as much sense as the idea that crunchy cookies would promote dental health in a human.

First, dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth. Second, a cat’s jaws and teeth are designed for shearing and tearing meat – not biting down on dry kibble. Third, many cats swallow the majority of their dry food whole.

There are many factors – known and unknown – that contribute to dental disease cats such as genetics, viruses, diet, and the fact that cats do not brush their teeth like humans do. There remain many unanswered questions concerning the fact that cats often suffer from poor dental health but one very obvious answer lies in the fact that humans feed cats a diet that does not even come close to what they would eat in their natural state.

When cats consume their prey in the wild, they are tearing at flesh, hide, bones, tendons, and ligaments. This is a far cry from the consistency of dry or canned food."


I didn't realize I should not have used my full name here (!)...can I change it?
There is no problem with this but if you'd like to change your user name, please send a PM to our Moderator (Marje and Gracie) and she will change it for you.
 
Hi Mary and Princess and welcome to the forum. You have been given some great information. I agree with @Bandit's Mom that you should reduce the amount of insulin you are giving until you are testing and can see what the dose is doing the the blood glucose.
This below, is from the Start Low Go Slow dosing method for Lantus insulin. So as long as the vet did not mention any ketones being in the urine at diagnosis, I would drop the dose to 1/2 unit twice a day if you are feeding an all low carb wet diet.
If you are feeding a dry food diet you can give 1 unit twice a day.
Starting Dose:
  • 1u BID if kitty is not on a wet/canned low carb diet
  • 0.5u BID if kitty has been switched to a wet/canned low carb diet
  • If the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration
  • Generally, shots are to be given 12 hours apart.
At the moment with being lethargic and not eating much, it is possible she is dropping too low, even though she is not showing signs of hypoglycaemia.Are you offering snacks during the cycles as well as the meal before the dose of insulin? A snack is a teaspoon or 2 of low carb food. I would give her two or three during all cycles as well as the main meals.
The prognosis for diabetic cats is very good, especially if you are feeding a low carb diet and hometesting the blood glucose. Most diabetic cats live as long as normal cats and die from unrelated causes.
 
Hi Mary and Princess and welcome to the forum. You have been given some great information. I agree with @Bandit's Mom that you should reduce the amount of insulin you are giving until you are testing and can see what the dose is doing the the blood glucose.
This below, is from the Start Low Go Slow dosing method for Lantus insulin. So as long as the vet did not mention any ketones being in the urine at diagnosis, I would drop the dose to 1/2 unit twice a day if you are feeding an all low carb wet diet.
If you are feeding a dry food diet you can give 1 unit twice a day.
Starting Dose:
  • 1u BID if kitty is not on a wet/canned low carb diet
  • 0.5u BID if kitty has been switched to a wet/canned low carb diet
  • If the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration
  • Generally, shots are to be given 12 hours apart.
At the moment with being lethargic and not eating much, it is possible she is dropping too low, even though she is not showing signs of hypoglycaemia.Are you offering snacks during the cycles as well as the meal before the dose of insulin? A snack is a teaspoon or 2 of low carb food. I would give her two or three during all cycles as well as the main meals.
The prognosis for diabetic cats is very good, especially if you are feeding a low carb diet and hometesting the blood glucose. Most diabetic cats live as long as normal cats and die from unrelated causes.
@Mary Zashin
 
OK, thanks...I feel nervous about lowering the dose on my own...but I will watch how she is behaving...perhaps I need to give her something with carbs...maybe a Greenie? To raise her glucose level...I am getting that hypoglycemia is more dangerous than hyper....
 
OK, thanks...I feel nervous about lowering the dose on my own...but I will watch how she is behaving...perhaps I need to give her something with carbs...maybe a Greenie? To raise her glucose level...I am getting that hypoglycemia is more dangerous than hyper....
Feeding high carbs to offset a higher than needed dose of insulin would be counter-intuitive. That would be okay to do today if she is showing signs of hypoglycaemia. And you are right, hypoglycaemia is definitely much more dangerous than hyper. Which is why you want to start home testing her. Periodic curves done at the vet will not give you an accurate picture of how she is doing on a dose.
 
Thank you all so much! Right now...she ate a little bit...and curled up quietly again...like she has been all day...also, I do not think she has peed all day! I am not sure what to do...she is due for a shot now...should I skip it entirely?
 
And...why is feeding carbs to offset a high dose counter-intuitive...it seems if she is low that I would want to give her carbs...?
 
Hi and welcome Mary and Princess ,you couldn't have found a better forum
You are using a good insulin for Princess

How was she diagnosed did the vet run a fructosamine test, that will give you her BG numbers for the prior 2 weeks
I will give you a link to tap on , it will explain how to st up your signature which is at the end of everyone's post in gray, it's information we need about Princess.
It will also explain how to set up our spreadsheet , we enter our cats BG numbers there to see how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping, that's how we adjust the dose , whether to increase or decrease it, that's when you get your meter and start to home test
If you need help with setting up the spreadsheet just ask we have a members who will be happy to do it for you. I will also give you some other links to read
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
It will also explain how the spreadsheet works

A human meter is just fine, that's what our numbers are based on
If you live in the US you can pick up from Walmart The Relion Premier Classic meter and test strips

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103. 9 dollars

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197. 17.88 for 100

Hi, Diane...I don't understand this..You say

"The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120.
On a human meter, 50 is your “take action” number
Meaning you will need to intervene with food to bring the BG number up to safe numbers
When starting out we suggest you don't shoot any number under 200
. If you get a BG below 200 stall, don’t feed and post and ask for help, and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is arising
You can say Help Stalling BG then the number
"

200 is high, right? Do you mean don't give insulin if the meter (which I will get tomorrow) reads under 200? But 200 is far above normal if normal is 50-120, so why wouldn't I want to give her a shot? I don't understand this stalling process...??
 
Also about testing...I have been rubbing thyroid gel into her ears for about a year so she is used to having her ears messed with...but will this thyroid med interfere with pricking her for testing...?
 
Maybe I just should not give her any tonight and call the vet tomorrow...I am concerned about the lack of urination today...
 
Well, I am thinking skipping the shot tonight is the right idea...because if I give her a shot and she is already too low it will just be worse...whereas if she is high it will not be a crisis...
 
In high numbers you will see excessive thirst and urination because the kidneys are working hard to expel the excess sugar through urine. Once you start seeing lower numbers (known as "below the renal threshold"), the frequent urination and consequently excessive thirst reduces. They will also not be as hungry once they start seeing better numbers because they begin to process/assimilate the food they eat.

The point I was making about high carbs and too much insulin is akin to running a mile and then eating cake - you won't lose weight :p. Yes, when their numbers drop low, you do want to feed them carbs to keep them safe. And like I said you do want to feed high carbs today if she is showing signs of her number dropping low. But going forward you want to give less insulin so that she doesn't drop low. Like in human diabetics, diet is an essential aspect of treatment.

Unfortunately, it is next to impossible to give advice on whether to give the shot and how much would be a correct dose without any data. Especially after a diet change. It's shooting in the dark! If she doesn't have ketones, there is no danger if you skip a dose. She might be high but that is better than her being too low.
 
In high numbers you will see excessive thirst and urination because the kidneys are working hard to expel the excess sugar through urine. Once you start seeing lower numbers (known as "below the renal threshold"), the frequent urination and consequently excessive thirst reduces. They will also not be as hungry once they start seeing better numbers because they begin to process/assimilate the food they eat.

The point I was making about high carbs and too much insulin is akin to running a mile and then eating cake - you won't lose weight :p. Yes, when their numbers drop low, you do want to feed them carbs to keep them safe. And like I said you do want to feed high carbs today if she is showing signs of her number dropping low. But going forward you want to give less insulin so that she doesn't drop low. Like in human diabetics, diet is an essential aspect of treatment.

Unfortunately, it is next to impossible to give advice on whether to give the shot and how much would be a correct dose without any data. Especially after a diet change. It's shooting in the dark! If she doesn't have ketones, there is no danger if you skip a dose. She might be high but that is better than her being too low.

Thanks again...I didn't dose her...and she did pee...so I will get a meter tomorrow and try the test...but, black cat...black ears :) not going to be easy to see that little blood drop.
 
OK, thanks...I feel nervous about lowering the dose on my own...but I will watch how she is behaving...perhaps I need to give her something with carbs...maybe a Greenie? To raise her glucose level...I am getting that hypoglycemia is more dangerous than hyper....
Trust me; don't be nervous. Sam was on 3 units as per his vet. I started testing, and found he was going waaay too low and rebounding (when they get low they skyrocket back high as their liver thinks they are dying and releases sugar (basically ,a bit more complex but essentially it releases sugar) into the blood, raising their blood sugar for up to 3 days). Now he's on 1 unit, and he's no longer hypo all the time.

And yes; being hypo is 10000000000x more dangerous than hyper. Hyper kills over months to YEARS. Hypo kills in minutes. It's happened before on here, I've seen some really depressing threads about it.

As for honest input about prognosis? Almost all cats here end up being perfectly fine. Diabetes in felines is INCREDIBLY treatable, especially these days with what we know. Prognosis is VERY GOOD with proper monitoring and treatment.

A majority of cats on a protocol called tight regulation (which you can learn about here and implement on your cat eventually) actually go into REMISSION, meaning they no longer need insulin!

Sam looked skeletal, was drinking a litre of water per day, had gone from 13 lbs to 9.5 lbs in about 9 months, and was peeing about once every hour or so. Now he drinks maybe 50 mls per day (he gets most of his water from his wet food), and pees like twice or three times per day at most. He can jump again, is 13 lbs again, regained all of his muscle mass, and is doing 100% fine. That's a fairly typical outcome if you monitor, test, and adjust the dose appropriately.
 
As many already said here, I’d lower the dose to 1 unit until you start testing. That’s typically the recommended starting dose. Let us know if you need testing tips, although I think Diane already covered most of it. You can get all the needed testing supplies at Walmart. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
Thanks for everyone's help...this is surprisingly difficult...the vet insisted I give 2 units today...she is still quite lazy...didn't even do her usual jump on me to get me up to feed her...I had to bring the food to her...she ate "some" so I gave her the shot...she jumped back on the bed where she is staying I guess...does anyone here use the Advocate PetTest Meter? I know most people here use human meters but there is information that gives me some pause...the different ways glucose is concentrated in cat and human blood reportedly makes a human meter less accurate...any thoughts, please?...of the pet meters the Advocate seems more reasonably priced...https://diabeticoutlet.com/use-pet-specific-glucose-meter/
 
Hi and welcome to the group! Your kitty is beautiful! I am no expert just someone who has been through it with their kitty, just wanted to say welcome and let you know you are in great hands, these people helped me and my cat so much, it is a debt I can never repay. Coming up on the one-year anniversary of his diagnosis and he's been in remission 6 months!!

dammit where's that tissue box
 
Thanks for everyone's help...this is surprisingly difficult...the vet insisted I give 2 units today...she is still quite lazy...didn't even do her usual jump on me to get me up to feed her...I had to bring the food to her...she ate "some" so I gave her the shot...she jumped back on the bed where she is staying I guess...does anyone here use the Advocate PetTest Meter? I know most people here use human meters but there is information that gives me some pause...the different ways glucose is concentrated in cat and human blood reportedly makes a human meter less accurate...any thoughts, please?...of the pet meters the Advocate seems more reasonably priced...https://diabeticoutlet.com/use-pet-specific-glucose-meter/
Human meters read lower than pet meters, but the wonderful people here have taken that into account with their methods. If you click on my Scully's spreadsheet and go to the very last tab, you can see where I gathered a bit of data comparing a Relion (human) meter with an AlphaTrak (pet) meter. The trend line is fairly consistent for pet meter readings above about 130. So the human meter reads lower, but in a predictable way.

I didn't get enough data below that number before running out of AlphaTrak strips. I'm probably going to buy one more box to keep my little experiment going, now that Scully is seeing lower numbers.
 
It’s not uncommon for vets to insist on a dose based on the spot check from the office visit. Vets spend very little time on feline diabetes in vet school. You’re the owner and ultimately you know your cat better than anyone else. If she’s not acting normal and is not feeling well, I urge you to lower the dose to 1 unit until you can start home testing her. Without testing and given the food change, if she has a hypo you’ll end up in the er with her and it will be a much much worse outcome. As many have said already, changing the diet can even result in remission for some cats. If you’re in the US, go to Walmart and get the testing supplies to start testing her asap. The majority of us used human meters and for now you just need to make sure she’s at safe numbers. If you want to change to a pet meter later, that’s fine. I never used anything other than human meters and it was never an issue. The fact she’s behaving lethargic really concerns me.
 
Thank you all again...yes, I lowered the dose to 1 unit and didn't give her any if she didn't eat...yesterday she ate some so I gave her 1 unit. This is what the vet said to do...the vet said to put her back on her old diet to see if she would eat more...her old diet was a mix of canned Friskies and a Friskies kibble...I had stopped the kibble immediately and was just feeding her the canned (recommended varieties)...this morning she ate like a tablespoon of food...I don't know whether to give her the shot or not....she isn't peeing a firehose like she did before the diagnosis, BUT this is the third day she hasn't pooped...probably because she is not eating very much...she isn't sleeping, just curled up on the bed or couch...she is able to jump on to my very high bed and I watched her walk and didn't notice any problems with her gait...I bought the meter but my first efforts did NOT go well and I have not yet succeeded in getting a sample...I have a call in to the vet but I think the vet is annoyed with me...too many questions and emails...
 
Thats exactly why I stopped reaching out to my vet and came here instead. She finally said to me when I was running test numbers by her and asking if I should shoot or give a token dose that I was going to drive myself crazy. What she really meant is that I was driving her crazy lol.

Do you want to tell us what happened when you tried to test? were you able to get blood, just not enough? Here are some reminders for you:

Did you aim for the sweet spot? Did you use a flashlight or additional lamp to clearly see the spot? Did you warm up the ear first? I used an old small sock I filled with some rice and then nuked for about 30 seconds. I’d hold it up to Minnie’s ear until the spot felt warm to the touch then I’d prick her ear. I also held a cotton oval to the back of her ear so I had a way to put a bit of pressure on. You want the lancet bevel up so the sharpest edge goes in. What lancet gauge are you using? It’s easier for you since you don’t have experience yet to use a larger one like 26 or 28.
 
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