New ... dazed and confused ... and scared

Status
Not open for further replies.
You do what you can. While you continue working on the blood testing, report on the secondary signs to let us know how he is doing.

Water consumption - measure how much is drunk per day. even with other cats, you should see some reduction with this as he becomes more controlled.

Hunger - voracious, get out of my way, appetite can be uncontrolled diabetes or hyperthyroidism.

The 5 Ps aka "Whole Cat Report":
Purr
Play
Preen/groom
Pee - patch size/characteristics (odor, color); ketones? Glucose? (KetoDiaStix, or generic)
Poop - normal/diarrhea/constipation/color
 
Thanks for the reminder, BJM.

I did read about these in the link from your signature but promtply forgot.

Armani's water consumption remains the same -- no more, no less -- as it was even before he was diagnosed. This is why I was so confused about the dianosis. But I will continue to monitor.

Armani's hunger remains the same -- nothing voracious, kind of only eats to live. Not all that interested in food until at night when he meows for a little no carb Young Again kibble. He does get 2-3 feedings of wet food through out the day. He eats about the same amount of those as he always has.

His purr is constant(!); he still loves to cuddle and knead.
Play -- I need to do more of. Will do some after complete this post.
Preen/groom -- yes. Still does.
Pee -- I have three cats and need to follow Armani to the litter box to make sure which tinkle is his. So far nothing smells off. No big big deposits either.
Poop -- normal consistency, light brown healthy color.

Whew. At least I feel like there is something I can do.

Was thinking of shutting him in the bathroom with me in order to test him. Was wondering your thoughts. I just cannot get him to stay with me so I can get the blood but I do not want to scare/stress him out either.

Thanks ..... : )
 
I've always preferred the bathroom as a testing spot. Smaller room, door that closes to keep the other busy body cats out, yet big enough to move around in and have a place to store the testing supplies in a drawer or closet.
 
Dont worry - some cats are easier to test than others - you arent alone. The good news is that the ears do "learn" to bleed. There is a scientific term for it which escapes me right now. So as long as you are poking, it will get easier!

However he sounds very squirmy. Can you wait till he is snoozing? Have you been practicing just giving him frequent ear rubs and treats and nothing else?

Wendy
 
I am working on treats he does like: petting, play.

Someone had mentioned boiling a chicked breast and cutting it into small cubes. I have done so and Armani likes it. My question is: do I just put some out from the fridge and let them come to room temp before I give them to him? What is the best way to warm up? They hate things out of the microwave .. no matter how briefly it was in there.

Secondary testing items show all is fine -- except for that damned neuropathy.
 
Try warming up a heavy ceramic plate with some hot water, then put the treats on that. Should gently warm them a bit.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
The good news is that the ears do "learn" to bleed. There is a scientific term for it which escapes me right now.

It's called angiogenesis. ;-)

Tamara & Armani said:
My question is: do I just put some out from the fridge and let them come to room temp before I give them to him? What is the best way to warm up? They hate things out of the microwave .. no matter how briefly it was in there.

Secondary testing items show all is fine -- except for that damned neuropathy.

BJ's idea about warming a plate is good. I sometimes do that when I'm feeding them food that has been in the fridge...if they're patient enough. But usually, my cats don't seem to care about temp at all when it comes to food. :lol: Will yours eat it cold?

Also, have you had a chance to look into the methyl-B12 (zobaline is the cat version, but I use the human one) for the neuropathy?
 
tamara, i'll be in portland on saturday and could come help you if you're still having trouble with testing at home. did you ever get the blood sugar numbers from the tests that the vet did? if you haven't gotten them yet, could you call and ask them? Numbers are everything in how we advise on treating a diabetic cat. it tells us the story of what's going on in the cat's body.

if his blood sugar is in diabetic ranges, he really needs to be treated. it's very hard on the cat's body to have blood sugar in high numbers for any length of time.

send me a pm if you want help - i'd be glad to stop by.
 
all righty. so that didn't get us too far, but i'm not giving up yet, tamara!

Donaleen made a comment to me that sparked a thought. what about trying feliway or Rescue Remedy to calm him down? I had some and wish i'd thought to bring it. You can get both at any pet store.

the Rescue Remedy is a liquid that you can add to his food. I gave punkin a dropperful (he was about 14lbs) and it didn't phase him, but just a few drops around the mouth of my civvie, Anya, knocked her out. If you can get that and try it - start with a medium dose cuz he's such a big guy and work up. see if it will relax him enough to let you test. i don't remember how much this cost, but i want to say around $8-10ish, maybe.

The feliway you can buy as a spray can or as a plug-in slow release. the can is a lot cheaper, which is what i have. the plug-in is around $40ish. It emits the pheromones that say "happy cats are here" and calms cats that way. i haven't seen great success with it, but others have. i'm not consistent about using it with these kittens and anya is still all worked up about them.

i reread your post here and am wishing i'd watched you try instead of me trying. since you've been able to poke at all, i would just keep trying. the poking alone will stimulate more blood vessel growth and it will eventually get so that it bleeds without you having to massage his ear.

I'd also start giving the zobaline immediately. the pill pockets that are for dogs "Duck and Pea" are safe for diabetics. i'd assume the treats you have are not safe for diabetics and switch to the chicken breast instead.

did you get a chance to look at the link in BJ's sig line on other ways to monitor blood sugar? It's a good list (great job, BJ!) She includes the link to the crystals i mentioned to you that can be put on the litter. i added the (and lentils) because I have used them instead to test the urine for ketones. it's another option instead of aquarium gravel. you just want something non-absorbent.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1r6ktdF7AMJCYHgPkVQWFUFy5Ag6OnbmfNfQqL3zX_88
Additional Tools For Monitoring Feline Diabetes
Note: These techniques are used as supplemental monitoring tools and are helpful if you are having difficulty getting blood glucose tests. They are not as accurate as blood tests and in many cases reflect what was happening several hours previously.

Urine Testing
A urine ketone test will identify if there are ketones accumulating since the last time the cat urinated. High levels of ketones are a medical emergency as they may be from diabetic ketoacidosis.
A urine glucose is inexact and shows if glucose was spilling into the urine since the last time the cat urinated. It does this when the blood glucose is over about 240. This shows you don't have control of the diabetes.
Obtain Keto Diastix or similar product from pharmacy.
You will be looking for glucose and/or ketones in the urine.
Use a long handled spoon to obtain fresh urine sample while the cat urinates, or hold a test strip under the cat (tongs may be helpful).
OR - place some strong plastic wrap over a section of the box frequently anointed and
dip into a fresh puddle less than 30 minutes after deposit.
OR - Pick up some aquarium gravel (or dry lentils) and put it in a clean litter box.
Wait for the cat to use it.
In under 30 minutes, push the gravel aside, tip the pan, and dip the strip.
Compare test strip to color chart (this is an imprecise measure)

Note: if cost is a problem, it is possible to remove solid debris from the gravel, and "wash" the gravel, dry it and re-use it. It is, however, very time-consuming and you'll need a large tub and a strainer over the drain to prevent it from going down and clogging the pipes.
Purina Glucotest
http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/pr ... otest.aspx
These can provide an approximate level of glucose in the urine. Evidence of any glucose in the urine means the renal threshold has been exceeded. and damage may be happening to internal organs due to high blood glucose levels. They do NOT indicate the level of blood glucose very well, as urine accumulates over several hours.

Water Consumption
Measure the amount of water you put down each day.
Measure how much is left at the same time the next day.
The difference is water drunk and some evaporation.
This will gradually decrease as you get better control.
Food Consumption
Measure the amount of food you put down each meal.
Measure how much food is left at the next meal.
The difference is food eaten and some evaporation of moisture from the food.
This will gradually decrease as you get better control.

Urine output
Roughly measure the amount of wet litter produce each day and it’s characteristics
- have you got oceans, lakes, ponds, or cups?
oceans = uncontrolled or possible some other problem such as renal disease or hyperthyroidism
cups = better controlled or lack of water intake

The 5 Ps
Purring - is the cat exhibiting customary signs of contentment or happiness?
Playing - will the cat play and interact with others?
Preening - is the cat maintaining its fur and cleanliness?
Peeing - occurs, and is a normal volume?
Poohing - fecal material is formed and passable?
Constipation may happen with a food change; adding a tablespoon or so of water may help, plus ensures the cat is hydrated properly.
Weight
Obtain a reliable, digital baby scale (Craigslist is one resource to check)
Weigh weekly, at about the same time and before a meal.
Pre-shot might work well as the time to do this.
Unplanned changes of more than 0.25 pounds (3-4 ounces) should be noted
Unplanned changes of 0.5 pounds may indicate something is happening.
A consistent, unplanned trend over time may suggest a problem; see the vet.

Here's a bit on feline neuropathy. it says the only known cause of it is untreated diabetes. http://www.vetinfo.com/feline-neuropathy-explained.html#b
 
(Thank you)

The Purina Glucotest is available through our shopping partner Amazon (link at top of page).

If you use a clumping litter, you may need to break the clumps apart to check the results.

If you have multiple cats, unless seen urinating, you don't know which cat it is, although the likely candidate will be the identified diabetic.
 
Hi, Julie (BJM and all),

Thanks so much for coming over yesterday. I hope you had a nice dinner with the family and that your son did enjoy his first day on a new job!

I have tried both Feliway and Rescue Remedy (in fact, I have a bottle of RR in my cabinet as we speak). Neither did anything for Armani. Which makes me so sad. He is such a great cat and yet such a beast to test/treat. Donaleen had suggested maybe I sedate Armani for the first few testings. I do have a prescription medicine my vet prescribed for him ... I have written her an email to see if she recommends me using it for this situation, how much I can use, etc.

I am really upset today as it has really hit me how much pain Armani must be in. I guess I was in denial previously.

I don't know ...

Yes, BJM, if I cannot separate the kitties at least I can test the tinkle and it will be obvious who the diabetic is. I have been watching them lately and notice where he usually goes in the box. One of my boxes is huge and it would be no trouble telling the puddles apart. However, I need to get him to go in the box with the special beads in them or plastic wrap over where he usually goes. Am I understanding correctly? That once it has hit the litter the sample has been compromised?

I feel I have a lot swimming around in my head this evening so if I have missed or misconstrued anything please feel free to let me know. I so appreciate everyone's input and assistance. Poor Armani. I am starting to fear I have not been doing all right by him.
 
Hi, Tamara. Glad you are posting about what is going on and getting some support.

I did say maybe the vet could prescribe some sort of relaxant but I have no idea what it would be. I don't know what that stuff you have even is. Don't use it without talking to the vet, please.

donaleen
 
would you check with the vet to see how much Rescue Remedy might be ok to use? I gave Anya (about 8 lbs) 3 drops tonight in a spoonful of food, made sure she ate it before giving her the rest of her dinner. She's calmed down and is snoozing in the living room with the kittens around - like a glass of good wine with dinner! i'm just wondering how much you gave him and if it would be ok to give him more until you see some calming.

but you did say you have been able to test him, just not gotten blood. i'd keep trying with it. every poke is an investment in getting blood to come sooner.

there's no point in beating yourself up over it. i understand exactly why you're skeptical about the diagnosis. I would also have expected the excessive drinking, peeing & hunger. That neuropathy is your only visible sign, but i think it's speaking about what's going on. just move on from here - you obviously love him no end! See what you can do. If you can get any blood, you might scrape it off on your fingernail, then you can take your time with the meter and getting it tested.

:YMHUG: you're doing great. just hang in there!
 
'Nother idea to help reduce the fidgets - if there are no medical contra-indications for it, wear him out with a good 15-20 minutes of really active play an hour or so before testing to see if that'll help settle him down for testing later.
 
Great catching tinkle ideas (I love the thought of making a little tray out of foil! Or covering the entire box with a white garbage bag) and reminder to exercise. Julie had Armani going when she came here with Da Bird!

I took out Armani's favorite toy and played with him some more. Maxi can be very pushy and get Armani out of the way so HE can play (at other times he is very giving!) so I just lock Maxi up -- which he hates but we do what we have to do!!
 
i think this is one of those things that you just keep trying ideas until something clicks and work. giving up isn't an option, so we'll all just keep brainstorming with you to try to figure out a way to get that big boy tested and getting his insulin!

let us know how things are going and what you next need help with! lots of ideas and experience with tons of different cats among the members here on FDMB. something will work.
 
How many times is it OK to prick an ear lobe in a day? (Sounds like the beginning to a riddle!)

Armani just loves the boiled chicken breast (as do my other kitties!) so it is easy to get him where I want him, however, poke though I might, I have not been able to draw blood.

I know it is pricking him cuz he jumps a little. I then gently fold his ear lobe and keep moving it around trying to find the blood. I even scrape my fingernail across his ear to try and see if there is something I am missing. I then massage his ear lobe and also hold the place where I think I pricked him so there is no scar tissue.

Also, his ear lobes are warmed so that should help things.

I tried several times tonight but garnered nothing so we are resting until tomorrow.
 
I used to have a "poke 3 times and quit" rule, but now Mikey doesn't care how many times I poke him in a row. Of course, I've gotten a lot better since we first started out testing almost a year ago and I usually get blood with the first poke. But every now and again (usually with a combination of his cold ears, using a different ear, and/or my occasional incompetence), I'll still sometimes end up poking him about 5 times before I get blood.

As to how often over the course of the day, I leave it up to Mikey. Sometimes, he'll come to me every hour on the hour to be tested and sometimes I'm lucky if I can wrangle him in for just a pre-shot test. I always try to make sure I get at least his pre-shots, a mid-cycle (if possible), and a before-bed test. If I've been doing a lot of testing throughout the day, I'll sometimes switch ears if he lets me (he doesn't like me testing his left ear too much and it has never bled as well as his right). Either way, he'll let me know when he's done with the testing for the day and I'll leave off him if I'm not worried about him dropping low.
 
If you absolutely, positively, must get blood, aim for the vein. Just be prepared to blot quickly as it can bleed profusely. One good shake of the head and the room looks like an abatoir!
 
i agree with BJ - if you can't get it with a typical poke (and remember it will take a couple of weeks of many daily pokes before you consistently get blood) just hit the vein. make sure you staunch the blood afterwards so it doesn't scar.

Tamara, it sounds like you're doing everything right. be persistent and you'll get there. Jojo, the former guru of this site used to say "Be the tank. A tank always gets where it's going." you want to get where you need to go, so just keep it up. i've poked punkin as much as 20 times in a day. they really do get used to it.

give him a treat after you've tried and put on a slick of the neosporin with pain relief that you have. it'll take out the sting and he'll forgive you.

good job with the whole thing! you're going to get there!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top