New Cat with Diabetes - Caninsulin and Home Testing. TR?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cellosmom

Member
Hello,

My name is Lise

My cat Cello (13 yo siamese, neutered male) was diagnosed with FD about a month ago. I was unable to treat him at the time because I was leaving for a month. His only symptom was excessive drinking and urination and urinating outside the litter box. His BG was 28, and the vet told me she didn't think I had the lifestyle to treat him because I am often gone for >12 hours of the day and travel a lot and that he would probably be fine for a while and then get sick and I'd have to make a choice, she did say diet could help and gave me purina DM to give him. I switched his food while I was away (he was getting dry food then as well) and he still peed a lot but stopped urinating outside of the box. I did a lot of reading when I got home and switched him to a completely high protein, low carb diet . In 72 hours of doing this he is drinking and urinating *almost* normally and his BG dropped to 20. I took him to the vet to learn how to get the shot, talk about home testing and Tight regulation and try to get the right insulin. This did not go well. The vets around here don't endorse home testing and she would only give me caninsulin, IF this doesn't work they will offer me Lantus. I have some acquaintances who are vets and I'm currently trying to get my hands on PZI insulin. The vet recommended that I give him 1 U a day for a week then bring him in for a curve at the vets on Friday.

On saturday and sunday I gave him 1 U insulin each morning. He took it well and behaved normally. I got a BG monitor on Sunday, and Sunday at midnight did my first test showed he was at a BG of 23.

This morning I decided to do a curve and so far here are the results........ trying not to freak out yet since he is currently low!

Time........Glucose level.....note

7:30am......21.2 (378)......1 U Caninsulin
9:30am......11.8 (212)
11:30am......2.1 (37.8)......Trying to stay calm, he is acting normal, eating and is on
the right diet.........

so how am I doing? I do want to try tight regulation but I guess I'll have to see how the rest of his response goes.......
 
If you can test him again really soon that would great... his insulin should be peaking aroud now but that's a low you dont want going any lower
Carl
 
carlinsc said:
If you can test him again really soon that would great... his insulin should be peaking aroud now but that's a low you dont want going any lower
Carl
Click to expand...

1:30pm Back up to 16.4 (295)

sigh.

I don't think I'm going to have a very good relationship with caninsulin
 
Hi Lise,

The vets around here don't endorse home testing and she would only give me caninsulin, IF this doesn't work they will offer me Lantus.
Click to expand...

It worked, but maybe too well. That is an extremely big drop on a small dose of insulin. You are doing everything you should be doing - home testing (in spite of what your vet thinks), a good diet, and closely monitoring his BG. That +4 is dangerously low however. Do you have "hypo" supplies at home? Caro syrup, honey, or some junky gravy based higher carb canned food? When the numbers get to 50 or lower, it may result in you having to force them up a little by introducing "sugar" into his system asap.

Please let us know how he's doing...

Carl
 
posted at the same time, it looks like!

Caninsulin is a pretty harsh insulin. Acts quickly, doesn't last long, and this is the sort of curve that you can see. It is more suited to dogs than cats. Cats absorb insulin twice as fast, I've read here. His response to it is pretty amazing, that's a lot of drop for a relatively small dose.

Lantus is a much more gentle acting insulin, and you get much longer duration. I would definitely try to convince the vet to switch.

Even though your vet doesn't like you home-testing, because you are doing it, then a curve at the vet is really money down the drain. You are doing all that work yourself, at home where he isn't all stressed out like he would be at the clinic. All you should need to do is show your numbers to the vet so they can see how the curves look.

Carl
 
Hi there! I'm also on Caninsulin (or rather, my cat is!) I've been using a sliding scale which seems to be working pretty good so far (I'm about a week into using it) I'm still rather getting the hang of this diabetes thing myself, but thought I'd pop by as someone in a similar position (and judging by how you measure BG levels, a similar location)

Agreed with skipping the vet curve if you can avoid it, you can do a better job at home for a lot cheaper.

What I've found so far is Caninsulin isn't ideal, at all, but if you're stuggling to get other insulins, it can be worked with, depending on how your cat reacts.

All the very best!
 
Thanks guys.

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow with the numbers and see if they will give me lantus.

I don't know how you do it, i'm already feeling stressed out and defeated, and he is being such a trooper through my learning curve, I couldn't ask for him to be a better boy for the testing and shots and I'm just teaching myself through internet videos.

I just can't believe how quickly his blood sugar bottomed out and then spiked again. I wouldn't want to up the dose because he went so low, but within 2 hours was back way high.

He has only been on insulin for 3 days..... will the changes level out even on caninsulin once he's been on it for awhile??
 
That is weird to see such a big jump. Morky is pretty ok on caninsulin, and follows a surprisingly normal curve on it. As for how long that takes, I'm not sure, as I've just recently adopted him, but I think he's been on insulin for over a year (and at 4 units to boot, scary thoughts!)

What are you feeding at the moment? Any dry food at all? How often?

And you're doing fine, it's exactly that, learning! And if you can get on the better insulins, you'll have loads of experienced users who will jump in and guide you. Caninsulin is very rarely used round these parts. And don't let the numbers become your whole experience of your kitty, sometimes it helps to stand back and see how he's doing overall, you mentioned yourself he's peeing a lot less, that's great news!

If it's any help, the link in my signature is Morky's numbers and how he tends to react with Caninsulin. This isn't to say Cello will react in the same way, but if it's any help, work away. :)
 
Thanks so much.

I have switched him to all wet high protein low carb (purina DM and approved Fancy feast varieties) he was hovering at 28 pre-diet change and now hovers around 20 with no insulin.

Here is his curve for the day, I will test again once more tonight before bed....

Time...........Glucose level.....insulin

7:30am......21.2 (378)......1 U Caninsulin
9:30am......11.8 (212)...... +2
11:30am......2.1 (37.8)..... +4
1:30 pm...... 16.4 (295)..... +6
4:00 pm...... 18.2 (327)...... +8.5
 
Lise,
Welcome! You're already on the right track to get your kitty back in good shape. You've already gotten really good advice above so I won't repeat it.

We've all been right in your shoes - the nerves, the fumbling, the lack of coordination, the fear that our kitty is going to get sicker, even the disagreements with the vets. We all understand! It WILL get better! After a short time, you can almost test with your eyes closed...in less than 30 seconds. Really! Don't freak out and sit watching him for the least thing that might be different - he's a cat. They live to be different.

Good work already - big hugs,
 
Minus that really low drop in the middle, it doesn't look too bad! It would be good if the drop and then when he comes back up is a bit smoother, but that being said, this is the first curve you've done and you're both still getting into it. My second day of doing the insulin was similar to yours

pmps: 24.5
+2: 17.9
+4: 8.9
+6: 20.2

Thankfully I didn't get quite as low as Cello did, but it's scary business when that happens!

But as we've settled in, tweeked the diet some (I partially blame the hills for keeping the numbers so high) his curves have mellowed out some and are a bit more predictable, though I've got more to run before I have a solid idea! (matter of fact, gonna try to get some late evening tests tonight, woo hoo)

Don't worry though, so long as Cello is alert, eating and acting normally, the rest can be worked around. And ketone strips are a good investment, just in case!
 
Spoke with my vet today. She actually took the fact that I did all the testing at home very well and agree's Cello needs a different insulin!

I'm hoping she'll give my hypurin which I think is the most similar to PROZINC that we can get in Canada. At least it's a start.... she seems more confident in my abilities and hopefully willing to work with me.

Shot Cello up this morning but that will be it for caninsulin for him, 24 hours off the juice and then onto something new....... what an... adventure?

Anybody have thoughts on hypurin vs. lantus?
 
Have not heard of hypurin but found this info on it: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Hypur ... ne_Neutral It says short acting insulin which seems it would be not unlike Canninsulin. It looks like an animal insulin but that may be the only similarity to ProZinc? We like longer lasting insulins that give softer curves. Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc should all be available to your vet in Canada. ProZinc is the only animal insulin but both Lantus and Levemir (human insulins) have been used successfully in cats and have research to back up their use.

Have you shown your vet some of the data on Lantus? Or can she get ProZinc?
 
the crazy thing is you cannot get PROZINC in canada. I have been to 3 vets, and even had one let me look through the drug book (drugs they can get) the only insulins vets can get in Canada (or at least ontario) are Caninsulin, Lantus and Hypurin. my vet now is willing to work with me and is going to see if there is any other way she can get anything else, but it won't be easy. sigh.

The vets are even frustrated by this because 2 of them said they used to swear by PROZINC or PZI.

so ya, it sucks. My guess is it's because it is bovine based, Canada has stopped production and importing of almost all Cow based products, but I could be wrong there. But it's super annoying.
 
Lantus is a great insuin and if your vet will prescribe it, I would go for it!

It does have a successful protocol which may be new for your vet, so I would look at the stickies on the Lantus forum and print out the information on dosing. There is also a research paper done by a vet you could copy off for her. Here is the forum: viewforum.php?f=9 The stickies are under the grey line that says Topics and are starred.
 
thanks so much! I'll look into it. Now that I've done the curves I think my vet is impressed enough with me to listen to my input.... fingers crossed
 
you can also get levemir (also called detemir) in Canada. I'd go with either lantus or levemir. There is a place called Summit in Ontario that made a type of PZI but honestly, I'd go with either of the L's.....
 
I assume Lantus would probably be a good choice for me as well since I am sometimes gone for about 12 hours...... a long lasting insulin will help me regulate him better with home testing. Does that make sense? I am willing to get up in the middle of the night to test on days I'm gone all day
 
If you are in Canada, you do not need a prescription for insulin. You can just go to any pharmacy and buy the insulin and syringes. You will need new syringes (U100) because Caninsulin is a U40. Not sure where in Canada you are located, but I have found that COSTCO is least expensive for Levemir and syringes. I would guess that their prices for Lantus would be equally competitive. When you go to buy the insulin, ask for pens or cartridges - not a vial. The vial will probably go bad b4 it is all used up. The cartridges will probably be used up b4 going bad and are thus a better buy.
 
Just-As-Appy said:
If you are in Canada, you do not need a prescription for insulin. You can just go to any pharmacy and buy the insulin and syringes. You will need new syringes (U100) because Caninsulin is a U40. Not sure where in Canada you are located, but I have found that COSTCO is least expensive for Levemir and syringes. I would guess that their prices for Lantus would be equally competitive. When you go to buy the insulin, ask for pens or cartridges - not a vial. The vial will probably go bad b4 it is all used up. The cartridges will probably be used up b4 going bad and are thus a better buy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this information! I really want to try ProZinc, trying to find it but it seems nearly impossible. My vet wants me to try oral pills which also seems like a waste of time *frustrated*
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top