New cat Andy

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Yvonne & Andy &BJ (GA)

Yvonne & Andy &BJ (GA)

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Andy was prescribed 6 units PZI (human) 2 x day, U40 syringes. I tested him today but probably missed his low #.
8am 351; 12:30pm 207; 1:30pm 267; 2:30pm 336 I only fed 1/2 can wet this am.
He is taking Tylan and probiotics for diarrhea but has not had diarrhea since we brought him home on Monday.
He is supposed to eat Purina DM abt 1/2 5.5 oz can wet with abt a heaping Tablespoon DM dry twice a day.

Andy is my new foster cat. He spent about 4 wks at the vet clinic, started on Lantus, but not regulated so switched to PZI some time last week. I have an appointment at my personal vet tomorrow for a second opinion on him and to switch him to their practice. Looking for feedback on his #'s and any ?'s for my vet tomorrow. Thanks.
 
Hmm. I replied on your other thread and remarked on the high dose of insulin. He has several things going on so it is hard to figure his levels out. Do you know why he had diarrhea? Is there any kind of infection? What is Tylan?

He did not drop as low midcycle as I would have expected. The dry food may still influence his numbers for a few cycles if you switch to all wet. Some cats have an immediate reaction to a diet change; some take a week or longer. If he only gives a little dry daily, it could be easy to drop that and feed only wet. PUrina wet is fairly low carb. But most people find the cat tires of the taste as it is mainly liver based.

What didn't work with the Lantus? How long was he on it? What dose was he on?

I would ask the vet about the possible causes of the diarrhea. And find out if the Tylan has any kind of a sugar base.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Hmm. I replied on your other thread and remarked on the high dose of insulin. He has several things going on so it is hard to figure his levels out. Do you know why he had diarrhea? Is there any kind of infection? What is Tylan?

He did not drop as low midcycle as I would have expected. The dry food may still influence his numbers for a few cycles if you switch to all wet. Some cats have an immediate reaction to a diet change; some take a week or longer. If he only gives a little dry daily, it could be easy to drop that and feed only wet. PUrina wet is fairly low carb. But most people find the cat tires of the taste as it is mainly liver based.

What didn't work with the Lantus? How long was he on it? What dose was he on?

I would ask the vet about the possible causes of the diarrhea. And find out if the Tylan has any kind of a sugar base.
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I am hoping to get some answers tomorrow. What I do know is Tylan is an antibiotic used for diarrhea. He was on Lantus for abt 3 weeks at the vet clinic but they were not satisfied with his #'s. He was placed at this clinic by a shelter so I was not involved in his care until this past week. I only have him home since Monday. I just got the ok to treat him as my own (I hope to adopt) so will take a more proactive role with him going forward.

Where can I find info on buying a new meter? We are currently using my husband's Accu-chek Aviva but I want to get Andy his own. Thx!!
 
I have not heard of an antibiotic used for diarrhea so I would definitely ask your new vet about that. If he has an infection, that could definitely raise his numbers. If no infection, it seems like there might be better choices for diarrhea? The probiotic is usually a good thing. What is the name of it? Lots of people here use FortiFlora; not only does it have no sugar but it is also a good appetite stimulant as it has the animal digest that makes dry food so irrestible.

Lantus is a good insulin so I wonder if they just didn't know how to dose it or whether he is a cat who needs more insulin.

So many questions. I am sorry I have so few possible answers for you.

Lots of people here like the ReliOn meters from Walmart. They are the least expensive and have the cheapest strips. You can use any meter that sips and takes a small sample, but the brand name meters tend to have more expensive strips. (That is your biggest expense- strips). You could use your husband's meter; it should work fine. You can get strips for it on eBay much cheaper than in the stores.
 
Yvonne Wineholt said:
Andy was prescribed 6 units PZI (human) 2 x day, U40 syringes. I tested him today but probably missed his low #.
8am 351; 12:30pm 207; 1:30pm 267; 2:30pm 336 I only fed 1/2 can wet this am.
He is taking Tylan and probiotics for diarrhea but has not had diarrhea since we brought him home on Monday.
He is supposed to eat Purina DM abt 1/2 5.5 oz can wet with abt a heaping Tablespoon DM dry twice a day.

Andy is my new foster cat. He spent about 4 wks at the vet clinic, started on Lantus, but not regulated so switched to PZI some time last week. I have an appointment at my personal vet tomorrow for a second opinion on him and to switch him to their practice. Looking for feedback on his #'s and any ?'s for my vet tomorrow. Thanks.
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At 6pm, he was 356, gave only 6 units and 1/2 can wet DM.
 
Hey Yvonne. Hopefully the vet can enlighten you so that perhaps some of the puzzle will be more clear as to why he is not responding to a very high dose of insulin. My vet wanted to RX the antibiotic metronidazole for Bubba when he had diarrhea, apparently it helps the inflammation with GI upsets in cats. I was a bit surprised that an antibiotic would help since most usually cause diarrhea. Maybe question that choice of antibiotic or do some homework on it. However, it was my experience that when Bubba had diarrhea, he went low BG on me. But then, Every Cat Is Different (ECID)

I like the Relion Prime meter from Walmart because the testing strips are 1/2 the price of the Relion Micro. That's a nice savings.

Keep us informed.
 
I have an appointment in abt 1 hour. This am, he was at 59!! 6pm last evening - 356 - 6 u dose - 1/2 5.5 oz can DM with 1/4 c Fancy Feast at 10pm
To me, this alone indicates a possible dosing problem??? I can't respond now for a while but feedback would be much appreciated. Thx.
 
Definitely a problem! Are you using a human meter or pet meter?

So no shot this AM right?
 
FYI: I just looked up Purina DM ingredients and one of them is corn glutten meal. My cats got so sick with a purina product high fiber, that had corn in it, chronic diarrhea and vomiting. As soon as I figured it out ( it was after they had been eating it for 2 weeks) and stopped it, all the symptoms went away. Maybe try another wet food. Many of us use Fancy Feast Classics (has to say Classics on the label) most of them are around 4% carbs. Also, the dry DM you are giving him is really high in carbs, it is 31 %. Carbs for diabetic cats should be between 8-10%. If you could get him off that dry you could see a big difference in his numbers. BUT make sure you are testing as you have been because his numbers could really drop making in necessary for you to cut back on the insulin. I would be very interested to see if the diarrhea stops if you change his wet to Fancy Feast. Keep us posted.


ETA: Yikes, I just saw that you posted he was 59 this AM, thank God you were testing. Keep us posted!
 
Rachel said:
Definitely a problem! Are you using a human meter or pet meter?

So no shot this AM right?
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Correct - what really bothers me is my instructions are if he is over 250 to increase 1 whole unit, if under 180 dec 1 unit and if not eating 1/2 dose. If I was not familiar with feline diabetes etc, he could be dead.
 
Yvonne Wineholt said:
Correct - what really bothers me is my instructions are if he is over 250 to increase 1 whole unit, if under 180 dec 1 unit and if not eating 1/2 dose. If I was not familiar with feline diabetes etc, he could be dead.
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That is crazy! Are you taking him to a different vet than the one that gave those instructions? I hope so because he/she clearly does not know how to treat feline diabetes.
 
Wow! So maybe changing the food has helped. Glad you were testing! 6 units at that number probably would have killed him.

It definitely looks like you need to reduce. Do be aware that numbers at the vet are usually inflated because stress raises levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. So doses prescribed at the vet can be too high once he gets home.

Let us know how the vet visit goes.
 
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Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Wow! So maybe changing the food has helped. Glad you were testing! 6 units at that number probably wouldn't have killed him.

It definitely looks like you need to reduce. Do be aware that numbers at the vet are usually inflated because stress raises levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. So doses prescribed at the vet can be too high once he gets home.

Let us know how the vet visit goes.
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Sue is right that dose would have killed him!
 
Update on Andy - I am very pleased. Vet visit went very well. He was very receptive and agreed with me. I took my #'s and right away he raised his eyebrows.
As others here said, he wanted to make sure nothing else was going on to merit the high dose. He did bloodwork and everything came back normal. His bg was 185! My vet said based on all this, if Andy was a new patient, he would not even be considered diabetic at this point. So we came up with a plan that I am comfortable with. We are going to take him down to 2 units since I hometest. I will continue to test pre shot and if under 250, no shot. Then the usual scale for higher levels etc. I want to wean him off the DM food also. I bought an Alphatrak meter, my choice, since they use it in their practice. Isn't it great to have a vet that will work with you. Now a question - should I start a new thread or just continue with this one? Thanks to all for your support.
 
Yvonne Wineholt said:
Update on Andy - I am very pleased. Vet visit went very well. He was very receptive and agreed with me. I took my #'s and right away he raised his eyebrows.
As others here said, he wanted to make sure nothing else was going on to merit the high dose. He did bloodwork and everything came back normal. His bg was 185! My vet said based on all this, if Andy was a new patient, he would not even be considered diabetic at this point. So we came up with a plan that I am comfortable with. We are going to take him down to 2 units since I hometest. I will continue to test pre shot and if under 250, no shot. Then the usual scale for higher levels etc. I want to wean him off the DM food also. I bought an Alphatrak meter, my choice, since they use it in their practice. Isn't it great to have a vet that will work with you. Now a question - should I start a new thread or just continue with this one? Thanks to all for your support.
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Wonderful news!!! I am sure you feel so much better with Andy seeing this new vet. Why don't you start a new thread in the ProZinc forum and there you will be able to get dosing advice. If ever you need immediate eyes on something at night when ProZinc isn't as active, post on Health. I am so glad that you teated and went today ! You saved Andy's life!
 
This is very encouraging!

250 is a reasonable no shoot level for a AlphaTrak meter, which generally reads higher than human meters. We generally suggest new diabetics not get insulin if their level is under 200. (Human meter) Instead we suggest stalling - waiting 20 minutes without feeding and retest. Not only do we need to be sure he was over 200, but also to be sure he is rising, not still falling. You don't want to add insulin if there is still insulin from the previous shot.

And I would only give one unit if he is over 250. Two units could be too high for a 250 preshot.

Be sure that you add AlphaTrak to your signature as it reads differently than human meters.

Lots of us feed Fancy Feast classics/Friskies pates. This vet has a great carb count food chart: www.catinfo.org. We suggest staying under 8-10%.

Normally we suggest you start a new thread daily, with your numbers. Also, can you start a spreadsheet? It's a great color coded tool for you, your vet and us, when you need help. It'll give us a quick picture of his history of dosing and levels.

Here are the directions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
 
When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter
general location (city and state/province)
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
 
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