New at shooting low

Good Morning
We have finally gotten Adams numbers down. I am not used to shooting when he is low but know what to do if he Hypos but I hope he doesn't !
I just updated his spreadsheet. I haven't fed him yet. Not sure if we should shoot or not ? Chris has been helping us.
Also if I shoot should I reduce his insulin ?

 

Tagging @Panic for you to ask whether she can help if she's online. (Haven't used Prozinc so unfortunately can't help you myself.)


Mogs
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PS: If you are currently stalling without feeding, please can you test Adam again about 20 minutes after the first AMPS test and post the result (to see whether his BG is rising).

Also if you could post whether you're able to monitor Adam throughout the full cycle it might save a bit of time with making the dosing decision.


Mogs
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Between 150 and 200 you have 3 options: skip, give a token dose (it would be 10-25% of full dose) or feed as usual and test in a couple hours and possibly shoot or skip based on that number. That option will throw off your schedule however.

I'd be inclined to do a token dose but I cannot stay with you today to watch him.

 

@Panic - Thank you, Elizabeth.


Mogs
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Ok so for a token dose he would get 1 1/4 instead of 1 1/2 ? I know what to do if he hypos just didn't want to deal with it if we can avoid it. I want to keep his numbers low and stop skipping doses .

 

Yes I am home all day to test just not sure how often ? Let me try to re test him and see where he is at. He hasn't eaten yet but he is 30 mins past his shot time so I need to make a decision soon. Thanks for all the help !

 

He stayed the same at 167

 

Full dose: 1.5 units

10% of full dose = 0.15 units

25% of full dose = 0.38 units


Mogs
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Not sure how to measure that ? Ugh sorry

 

You could just do 0.25 units. It will be between 0 mark and half unit mark.

 

Ok thanks

 

From the Prozinc Basics sticky:

All insulins are prescribed to supplement an insulin deficiency in a diabetic cat. There are several types of insulin that work differently. PZ is a cat-specific insulin that many people have used with great success.

• PZ is an “in and out” insulin, however, it is possible for one cycle to affect the next. This means that the insulin does not build up in the system and stay there. “Onset” is when the insulin starts working, usually between 2 to 3 hours after the shot is given (depending on your cat’s own unique metabolism). PZ generally lasts 12 hours (“duration”) resulting in a “curve” of BG numbers, downward around mid-cycle, then back upward toward the end of each 12-hour cycle. For this reason, it’s dosed twice a day.

​

I'd suggest starting to test at +2 latest because according to the above that is when dose onset occurs. If you are in any doubt test earlier. If there's a significant drop between AMPS and onset test, then test more frequently and intervene with food to keep numbers in a safe range if necessary (testing/feeding every 30 minutes if numbers are at the lower end of the normal range till they come back up and stay up for 2 hours without any food).

I don't know the time period when nadir typically occurs with Prozinc and there's not enough spreadsheet data to work out where nadir might be for Adam. I'd suggest trying to catch nadir from +4 onwards unless the +2 and +3 tests indicate that earlier tests are needed.

Essentially, if in doubt, test, and then let the numbers guide when to test next.


Mogs

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Thank you so much for your help and explaining everything ❤️

 

Tested at +4 1/2 and he is at 94!
I don't want him to go much lower but not sure what to do? Feed him low carb ?

 

bump

 

@JanetNJ
Hi Janet can you please take a look at # 15 Adam is also on prozinc
Thank you

 

That's a beautiful and safe number. No reason to fear!

If you're just nervous, you can give him a teaspoon or 2 of his regular low carb food. Test again in an hour

 

A little nervous but he is acting ok pissed off about his ear though lol poor baby boy !

 

Gave him a snack and will test in an hour. Lowest he has been in a while .

 

Just tested at +5 1/2 and he is at 87 !

 

That's great!! Still a wonderful and safe number!

Since you're still pretty new to all this, he also earned a reduction...but since you already did a reduced dose this morning, I'd probably stick with the 1U dose for now.

Hopefully you'll get some other opinions before tonight's shot is due though.

 

Yep still doing good. Should I test him again in an hour ? He is getting close to my worry point

 

I was thinking of holding him at the 1 unit and seeing how he did also.

 

103 @ +7 1/2 going to give him some chicken liver snack

 

No real need to give him anymore food or snacks.....unless he just wants them....LOL

 

Very nice going, Adam!


Mogs
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It's mommy guilt

 

Should I keep Adam at 1 unit tonight and moving forward ? How do I know if he needs it increased again ? I guess he will be too high again ?

 

@Panic will know. I have my opinion but cant give it as I dont give dosing advice. Lets see what Elizabeth has to say

 

Thanks
Earlier Chris and I said to keep him at 1 unit but now we have more days on the spreadsheet which he did pretty well actually so I just want to be sure to keep it at that. He has been at 1 1/2 units of Pro Zinc

 

I would stay at 1 unit unless Chris says otherwise, since she's been helping you the most.

 

Ok I will keep it at that then. How do I know if he needs to be increased back up ? Is it because his numbers will be higher.

 

BINGO!

 

See I am getting there. Idk why the vets never tell you any of this stuff.
Oh that's right they make money when we are kept stupid. They tried to tell me I needed to bring him in because they didn't think I knew how to suck insulin up into the syringe properly. So I had a nice chat with the vet tech and told her I have done rescues privately for over 26 years . I have seen things I wish I could un see. I have given countless cats and dogs shots , Sub Q fluids , treated a kitten for over a month with Spina Bifida who was adopted out a week after the hole in his spine finally closed , had a ferret with a cyst seize off and on for hours before we had to help him cross when we couldn't get him stable. ( that was horrible ) and had a 2 week old kitten seize and die in my hand because someone decided to feed it cows milk instead of KMR and it was so dehydrated for diarrhea he seized and died in my hands. I think I am a little more then " qualified " to suck insulin and give it to my cat. She asked me if I wanted her job
Umm no thanks I am good.

 

Awww bless you!

 

That made me chuckle.

 

Thanks

 

I can't be a vet tech because I can't do ear cropping, de clawing etc and I could never euthenized unless it was nessacary.
I had a old school vet in our old town. You would go in his office and a new cat would be in there. He would say we have a new office cat..yep I see them congratulations..you just knew he couldn't euthenize them so he kept em .
Sorry for my little rant. I get frustrated sometimes

 

You have good cause! Vent whenever you feel the need.

 

Back in the days of the dinosaur when I was about 13, I volunteered to work over the summer at a local vet's office. The first morning I went in, the first thing I was asked to do was help the tech euthanize a gorgeous little Brittany dog about 2 years old because they'd poked an eye out with a stick and the owner didn't want him anymore.

I became the proud owner of a young Brittany

 

Sorry didn't mean any disrespect

 

Oh no don't feel that way at all. I ment I was frustrated hy the vets who don't help the fur babies..or owners !

 

Ok Mr.Adam went back up to 199. Should I stay at 1 unit and see how he does in the morning or put him back at 1 1/2 ?

 

yes, for now

Have you ever done a smaller dose change? Like a 1.25 unit dose?

 

I think that's what I should have done but wasent thinking about it when I did it. I just gave him 1 unit figuring it's better then nothing in him.
Someone else this morning said to give him a lot less unless I mis understood what they were saying to do so I was trying to play it safe . We will see how he does in the morning

 

Token dosing is the right call sometimes....a lot of it depends on your experience, your data and if you have plenty of supplies (and most important, will be home to test as often as might be necessary)

Since you were going to be home and able to test, shooting a little less on a 167 worked well this time! He had a good cycle!

 

Adam would like to thank you all for all your help today and answering all of Moms crazy questions. He hasn't played in weeks now and tonight he kept bringing me his ball to throw it so he could chase it and carry it back to me where he puts it in your hand to throw it again ( he is part dog we swear it )
He must be feeling better if he wants to play

 

Isn't that fantastic when they start to play again? I remember so clearly the first time China started playing her old games again. I cried. I had told myself that she was just "too old for games". Once she was diagnosed and we started the insulin, she went back to playing her favorite games! (her favorite one was always a game I called "Where's mama"? ....she'd wander through the house howling at the top of her lungs until I'd call out "China....you're not lost!"....she'd come running to me at breakneck speed, jump up next to me and then head off to start wandering and howling again. She loved that game

 

Yes it is !
What a wonderful game that is. He only wants these certain fuzzy balls and only pink or purple idk why ? He has a blue one and won't touch it . The pet store stopped selling them so now I have to look on Chewy or somewhere to get more for him. He is so super sweet out of all our cats he is one of my favorite Shh don't tell the others ! He just has the sweetest personality despite his angry faces he makes. He also has had stones before so he has been a pretty sick kid at one point.
Anyways off to bed . I hope he doesn't yell in the baby monitor again. He kept trying to give my son his ball to play with him lol I might have to go take it away for tonight.
Have a good night a d thanks again !

 

That's so cute @Chris & China (GA)

 

Aww that's cute

 

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Great numbers

 

Yesterday Adam was at 195 @ 8 am and 186 @ 8pm. We had a crazy day so really wasent home to test . This morning at 8 am he was at 246 so I increased back up a bit to 1.25 units. Tested at +4 and he is at 140 .
I feel proud of myself for seeing he was getting too high and increasing on my own. I will check him again at +6 because that's usually is nadir. But so far so good.