New and Very Confused!

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Zombie99X

Member Since 2014
Hi, I'm new to this forum and my cat(named Tabby) recently got diagnosed with diabetes around 2 months ago, she's about 11 years old now. I've been trying to read up on the condition and the proper foods to feed her, but I'm so very confused. I live in Newfoundland Canada, so we have tons of pet food stores around if I got to go get a special food or anything. I want to get all information down to see if I can get some straight answers, so please bear with me. I apologize for it being long. I need help please.

The vet told me I had to feed her Purina DM Dietetic Management, 1/2 cup twice daily, and even offered the wet food from Purina DM Savory Selects, pate and chunks. I give her 1 unit twice daily of insulin, I think its Caninsulin(I don't know if that's the type or brand name). I don't do home BG testing, the vet told me the human meters don't work and the pet ones are very expensive. I'm not sure if BG is different with vets, but Tabby's range was 28-29 when I first took her in, then it went down to 8.2 and now it's at 7.8 from a couple days ago. I've seen posts with 300 or 400's, so not sure. She don't have to go back for another 3-4 months now to get it checked again.

Now the only way I can get her to eat for the needle is to use a little bit of canned food, I usually give a couple spoonfuls of the chunky wet food, as Tabby just tends to stare at pate, but eventually gives in, she usually only licks the gravy off the chunks and then eats a bit of the rest later. I only give her the dry when her bowl is empty, she don't eat that much of it, so it could be every second day I put a 1/2 scoop in. I have tried to take her wet and dry food away to just get her to eat a bit of the dry before needle, but she just meows at me for wet food. Once nurse at the vet said I should get her on a feeding pattern, food for the needle and then none until the next needle, 12 hours apart. But I kind of find that unfair to her.

I have asked the vet/nurses if there was any other canned/dry food I could get, as the vet stuff is very expensive($45 dry bag and $2.50 for canned), but they keep telling me no, she has to be on this stuff and this alone, but I keep reading everywhere that is not the case, one nurse told me to stay clear of Fancy Feast, said it was too much salt for her, along with all other non vet foods. I like the idea of Fancy Feast or other brands being good so I can buy it cheaper and stock up without a problem of the vet being closed when I need it. I have tried Tabby on Blue Buffalo High Protein canned, but it was with the whole change over in foods, she got diarrhea for about a week, so I never went back to it.

So my main questions are about the food, Do I take the ones with lower Carb % and Phos % and feed her those, stuff like the Fancy Feast Classics, and keep a bit of dry in her bowl for when she is peckish? and are the vets just trying to push their foods because it bring them in tons of money from people like me, they don't know any better or does the stuff actually work for some cases?

Thank you.
 
Welcome to FDMB,

First things first, you are not alone when you say your vet said ONLY prescription food, and don't worry about home testing or if you do you need the pet meter (I fell for that one and paid $150+ to find out it was a lie).

Home testing-VERY important. Especially if you want to change to a low carb food. DO NOT CHANGE to a low carb food unless you are home testing, you could send Tabby into hypo. Diet change can drastically drop bg numbers. You do not need a pet specific meter a human meter is fine, thats what most use here. Most on this site use the relion micro or relion confirm. Its cheap and works just as good.

Food- Once you are home testing- Fancy feast pates are PERFECT! Thats what most here feed. Unless Tabby has kidney issues you do not need to worry about phos. Just a low carb diet, generally 10% or less.

Here is a good reference for food, but once again dont change until your home testing.
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

When you are home testing and ready to change foods do it slowly because as you've seen it can upset the stomach. Start slow, try 75%/25% or 50/50.

As to the numbers, Im not certain on readings with those numbers I'm sure BJM will pop in with advice soon. Theres tons of posts on what numbers mean but most seem to be in US format.

Also, Im not sure what insulin's there are in Canada but most here will recommend Lantus, ProZinc, Levemir, and BCP PZI are all good insulins to use and last about 12 hours per shot. Caninsulin lasts 8 hrs I believe.


Hope some of this information has helped, and once again you are not alone when the vets say this and that some vets are just a battle.
 
Hi Tabby's caretaker! (We'd love to know your name too!)

To answer some of your questions real quick, the 300-400 numbers you're seeing here are US numbers. The rest of the world uses mmol like you do in Canada. With most of us here in the US, you'll see our numbers much more often. To convert, just take the number you get and times it by 18...so if you get a 10, that's 180 for us.

Your vet is totally wrong on the food too. There are no good dry foods...period...there are a couple that are low carb, but one of the main complications of diabetes is kidney disease, so it's important to get as much water into them as possible. Most of us add water to the pate foods we feed to make it a little more "soupy" to add even more water!

Home testing is vital, but in Canada, unless you make frequent trips to the US, you won't be able to get the Relion meters we love so much because they're not available in Canada. When you go looking for a meter, pay attention to how much the strips are! That's where the money is! Avoid the meters with "Free" in the name too. I think I've seen that a lot of our other Canadian members use the One Touch. You do NOT need your vet's fancy "pet only" meter! Not only is the meter expensive, the strips for it can run $1-$2 per strip! With the amount of testing we do (at least 4 times/day) you can see how that wouldn't be very affordable for most people!

Now the good thing about living in Canada is you can get insulin without a prescription! Caninsulin isn't a good choice for cats. It's too harsh. Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc are the only 3 that work well, and Lantus and Levemir are both available at human pharmacies.

You do NOT want to quickly switch from the food you're feeding now unless you're home testing first. Decreasing the carbs to below 10% will bring his numbers down...and if you're giving insulin too, it might lead to a hypoglycemic episode that can kill. You want to gradually switch to the low carb foods. The list in the post above shows the carb percentage in column "C"...look for foods less than 10% (and Fancy Feast Classics...or I think they're called Pate's in Canada) are fine!

Welcome to the FDMB! The best place you never wanted to be! Ask questions! The people here are great with their time and advice and can teach you everything you need to know.
 
I just wanted to say hello and that you have found the right place for all these questions! The people here are amazing and I promise you that their advice is good and they'll guide you through making sense of all of this.

My cat was diagnosed a few months ago and I got essentially the exact same advice as you in all regards (prescription dry food, expensive pet-only blood glucose meter, etc...), though she was prescribed Lantus. I followed the vet's advice for a few months with no improvement in her condition and a few scary days when her sugars dipped too low (I now know how close she was to death those days and it terrifies me!). After I found this board and started home testing, I switched to wet food and was very quickly able to drop Mona's dose of insulin. After just a couple months, it looking very likely that she's in remission and won't need insulin at all anymore! It's all because of the people here!

Good luck!
 
I have less and less confidence in my vet as I read stories like this. SO much bad advice from the medical profession!!!

I hope my vet doesn't give me any static over the prescription I want for Levemir or Lantus.

And OP - I'm very confused too! But I think I'm starting to figure it out.
 
Hi Tabby's person,

I'm a recent joiner, too, and Saoirse was prescribed Caninsuiln (compulsory first choice in the EU, I have learned) and the carb-stuffed Hill's w/d Dry veterinary diet. I am a believer in fitting the treatment to the requirements of the patient and not the other way round. I found FDMB and now I have a new vet.

As well as home testing, please, please, please be careful about the Caninsulin dosage when you transition to low carb food. The insulin itself can produce HUGE drops in BG level, even at relatively low doses, and Tabby's numbers are <10 mmol/L. As dirtybirdsoaps said above, the switch to low carb food can produce fairly immediate and dramatic drops in BG level. The combination of Caninsulin's action profile and potential drop in numbers on LC food is not a good one (as I found out a few weeks ago, and Tabby's numbers are lower than Saoirse's were at the time).

Saoirse and I are in the UK, and we measure in mmol/L, too. It might help you to look at Saoirse's spreadsheet so you can see her numbers from mid-July onwards to get an idea of how fast and frequently insulin requirements can change during and after the transition to wet, LC food. (I've had the heart put crossways in me on a number of occasions over the last couple of weeks. If I hadn't found FDMB and started home testing ... ) Just click on the link in my signature and choose the World (mmol/L) tab in the spreadsheet file.

Please note that I use an Alphatrak veterinary glucometer, so Saoirse's spreadsheet numbers will be higher than equivalent readings on a human glucometer.

Saoirse still needs insulin because ideally her numbers should be a bit lower to help her pancreas along, but I've had to stop administering Caninsulin because the steep drops make it unsafe for her (even at as low a dose as 0.2 IU).

Hope some of this helps! I've got so much to learn.
 
[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]

We suggest using an inexpensive human glucometer with pet-specific reference numbers (which your vet may not know about). One many of us use is the WalMart Relion Confirm, or Confirm Micro, which is also sold at American Diabetes Wholesale as as the Arkray USA Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini (same manufacturer - Arkray USA). It uses a tiny blood droplet and the cost is significantly lower for test strips (like $0.36 each). In Canada or other countries, you'll need to look for one you can afford, and easily obtain test strips to use.



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
Examples of using the chart:

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Thank you everyone for replying to me, my name is Wayne, sorry I forgot to mention in first post. I'm going to read this over a couple times to take it all in, a lot of information here, which is good. I'm thinking about doing home testing as well, but I know she won't like the pricking on the ears, lol.

I was also wondering if around the neck is the only place to put the needle? I tend to rotate from side to side and middle, but sometimes the needle don't go in as easy in some spots and I get nervous that I may have done it there before and its sore or something.

My dad has diabetes as well, he got a pen for his insulin, does that exist for cats? I can probably look into if he got a meter that he don't use as well.
 
You can shoot any fold of loose skin. Rotating around may help prevent scar tissue.
Absorption may slower in the scruff.

Pens only give full unit doses; we dose in 0.25 unit increments. You can take off the pen tip and use a syringe to withdraw the insulin.
 
Welcome Wayne!

Here's a page that will show you Different injection sites but shooting in the scruff is fine too. Just don't shoot in the same place twice in a row. One shot give on the right side of "center", next in the "center" and next to the left side of center. The needles are really very tiny and the chances of hitting the exact same place twice is really remote.

Both Lantus and Levemir come in either vials or pens. Lantus is called the Solostar and Levemir calls theirs the Flex Pen. We still use regular insulin syringes to pull the insulin out of the pens though....we don't use the needles that come with them or the "dial a dose".

As far as testing....there's no way I can stress enough the need to home test. The edge of the ear where you poke doesn't have many pain receptors so you're not going to hurt Tabby by testing. You're going to keep him safe!

Most cats just don't like having their ears fooled with in ANY way, so the trick is to get him used to having you fool with his ears! Decide where you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter where 2 avenues of escape are already blocked off due to the wall and the backsplash). As many times a day as you think of it, take Tabby to the spot and just give his ears a quick rub (if that's all he'll allow) and then give him a yummy treat! (Low carb of course....freeze dried chicken is a favorite around here, but any freeze dried meat, plain boiled or baked chicken is fine) As you keep doing this, he'll learn to associate that spot with the yummy treat and won't care what you're doing to his ears! I swear it works!

If you dad has a spare meter, it's fine to use it, but remember, it's the strips that cost the most money in the long run. If you can't afford the replacement strips for dad's, you might want to look for another meter.
 
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