New and need a little help please

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Lilymay

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Our 8 year old cat was dx'd a type 1 diabetic a week ago yesterday. She is on two units of ProZinc in the am and two in the pm. We just checked her bs and she is HI. I know this means she is over 600. My son is a type 1 diabetic so I am not new to any of this, however, it seems a tad different in cats. The vet did not give us any short acting insulin. I tried calling them and they will not reopen until Monday morning. I have been trying to do some research but it seems the information out there is a little outdated.

Any help you could offer would be great. Oh, I should add she is drinking but not more than normal and she is eating no carb chicken.
 
We suggest starting at a low dose and working up. It is possible that starting at 2 units twice a day instead of the recommended 1 unit twice a day, that you went over the ideal dose and your kitty is in rebound: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

But with those high numbers, I would be scared to lower the dose to see. You do need to be testing for ketones (use the same ketostix that human diabetes use.) ( http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm) to avoid DKA.

I am so glad you are hometesting. Is this HI in the evening before the shot? Do you have any other numbers to share?
 
This reading was about 8 hours after her last shot. I have blood ketone strips and I can check her for those. I also have the urine ones, but I dont think I can get her to pee on command plus we have other kitties.

I am sorry I do not have any other numbers as the vet told us to start checking as of today so that is the first. I do know that she was 483 at dx.

I have been doing a lot of research on this site, which I love already, and still have another question. Do many cats use both kinds of insulin, short and long acting? I have a ton of human short acting here, but I would not feel comfortable using it.

Thank you for helping me out on this.
 
Very, very few caretakers here use a fast-acting insulin like R in conjunction with a slow-action one like ProZinc/Lantus?Levemir. Some times is takes a day or two to see an effect with an insulin like ProZinc.
 
Thank you. She has been on insulin for 8 days now. She still does not act like her normal self. I also know this can take awhile. When my son was dx'd it took a few weeks for him to start to feel better.
 
To get a urine sample from Oliver, we bought aquarium gravel, put it in the litter box and put him alone in a room with it until he gave us a sample. It does work - he was never going to be willing to pee in front of us.

You mean you have a PrecisonXtra or something similiar that will test for ketones with blood? If you have those ketone strips for the meter, that would be great.

Agree that it is rare for cats here to use any kind of fast acting insulin like R to supplement regular insulin. Wish we had some numbers so we knew what had been happening for the week. The number from the vet isn't so high when you consider vet stress.
 
Yes, I think I would. (Understand none of us are vets. We just speak from our experience. And it is very hard for us to advise you when we have so little data to work with.) And then get some numbers for us - +3, +6, +8 etc. We may be able to see from the curve whether the numbers suggest too much or too little insulin.
 
Thank you again for the help. I also wish I had other numbers. I will continue to check and log them and let you all know.

I love the idea of the gravel, I will get some tomorrow.

Yes, it is the Precision Xtra meter with the ketone strips. My son uses it once in a blue moon.
 
How was the 2u BID dose chosen? It could be more than is needed and causing Rebound (extra sugar dumped by the liver to absorb the excess insulin)

I currently have 2 diabetic cats on Levemir insulin, and they only need 0.25u BID to stay well regulated on a low carb / high protein canned food diet.
 
i will just add that if you start with one unit and see how that works it is so much easier and clearer to move the dose up. if you start with 2u well, if it's too high you may not know as you will be seeing some chronic rebound and will eventually start at scratch.
did i miss where you told us what you are feeding.
and aside from your am and pm preshot tests are you getting regular mid cycle tests?
nobody likes to see a high number...but as you know from your son...it's important to understand what is contributing to the high number.
thisgs will start to mellow out...it's very hard in the beginning but becomes surprisingly easy and rather rote as time goes on.
 
you mentioned she's been on insulin over a week. have you been testing all that time. that would tell us an armload of information already.
 
Welcome Lilymay,

That would be great if you could get in more tests. Also, it's really helpful if you would put your numbers in a spreadsheet so we can follow along. Here is the link with instructions on how to create and link the spreadsheet to your signature.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Please visit the PZI insulin group and read the helpful information in the sticky.
Please keep asking questions.
Marcy
 
The amount was chosen by the vet. She, the vet, did say that we may have to do some adjusting on the amount of insulin.

No, the vet told me I only needed to check once a week. I thought it was odd since my son checks many times a day, but I went with it. However, I will be testing much more often now.

Should I just go ahead and give her one unit tonight? She is due for her shot in a couple hours. She only weighs about 9 pounds. I understand that none of you are vets but you all know much more than I do about diabetic cats.

Oh, I almost forgot she is still eating the same cat food she was before being dx'd. What is a good food to change her to?

Thank you all again. I really appreciate the help.
 
oh dear, you really need to check before each and every shot. very important.
 
Ah , the food certainly could be why her numbers are higher. We feed wet lo carb. See this website by a vet: http://www.catinfo.org. She explains why and also gives you the URL for the food chart. We try to stay between 8-10% carbs. Lots of us feed Fancy Feast, Friskies, Wellness. What you can afford and what he will eat.

Yep. We figure we wouldn't give our 2 legged children insulin with checking bg levels, so we do the same for our 4 legged ones.
 
I will be feeding her a lower carb menu starting tonight. Also, I will recheck her bs before she eats and post the number to see if I should still have her take two units.

Thanks for the help.
 
You're a fast learner. Great job you are doing for your kitty.

Changing to low carb can make a drastic reduction in bg levels. With Oliver, when we changed from dry to wet, he went down 100 points overnight. So be watchful with her numbers.
 
hi, don't know what time zone your in or what time you'll be pre testing your kitty for the evening shot, but if tonights her first night on the low carb and i know you have 3 or 4 kitties and if they will all be getting it so there's no chance of a hig carb theft i would be more comfortable with some dose reduction tonight since your sleeping and won't be up for the nadars if they go low. did you figure how much lower in carbs the food you will be giving compared to the food she's been eatting is.
 
just now read the vet's advice to check bg's once a week. grr_red now what the heck are you supposed to know or learn about the dose or progress or lack thereof by testing once a week. that is about the dumbest vet advice i've heard in a long time. mine as well not test at all.
sorry for the rant...but you can see that testing is not only the way to control diabetes but also life saving. how can any dr. anywhere in any field say such a thing. sad sad sad :roll:
 
Ok, I just checked and she has no ketones and her bs is down to 597. Any thoughts on insulin dose before I feed her?
 
It looks like the can I have for her says 5 on the chart link that was listed. Her old kind said 22 so there is a huge difference, Also, I plan on putting her alone while she eats so none of our other critters try to take her food or crowd her.
 
This is hard because we have no data and don't yet know how the insulin works for her. It's great there are no ketones. You could give one unit since you've changed the food and hope it doesn't take her too high. That may be the safer option, but there is a possibility she will be high. Better too high than low? You could go with 1.5?

it's a guessing game without data. Go with your gut - what will make you more comfortable.
 
yep that is a whole lotta carbs she's been eatting. as far as meal times...do all the cats eat and then the bowls get picked up or are they free feeding all day.
she has to be unable to eat that food ever ever again.
and actually all you kitties would be well suited to eat what lily eats.
and yes 1 or 1.5u.
are you able to get a +4 to see if she's gonna nose dive?
 
Thanks to all. I went ahead and started all of them on the lower carb cat food. I went ahead and gave 1.5 units, I wanted to make sure she dropped from the 597. My husband will be up most of the night so I will have him recheck her before bed just to make sure she isn't going low.
 
Just to clarify, your cat was diagnosed with Type 1? How was that diagnosis made? I ask because the vast majority of cats are actually Type 2 in that they respond to diet changes. They often need insulin when Type 2 but have the ability to go into remission...

Jen
 
Type 1's no longer produce much insulin as where most ( not all ) in lay mans terms. Type 2's still produce insulin there is just fat in the way that does not allow the insulin to do the job it needs to.

Lily weighs 10 pounds max, never been overweight at all. I also understand you can have a thin type 2 just not nearly as common.

Either type will have some change depending on diet. My son is a type 1 and if he eats more carbs he needs more insulin, but just like Lily he will never be able to go off insulin.

Based on your question I take it there are not many type 1 cats on here? I hope I answered your questions..

Also when I was doing research I read that there are a lot of type 1 cats. It did not seem that uncommon when I was reading about it.

I should have added that it is possible the reason some cats go off insulin as a type 2 is due to diet change they have lost weight and the insulin they are producing can now do the job it needs to do.
 
We seldom have cats that are clearly type 1 here but not that many...and I'm not certain that the cat's weight (fat or thin) is much of a defining factor in whether they are type 1 or 2 as we've seen all kinds.
 
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