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Ldefrank

Member Since 2013
Hi everyone,
I just returned from the vet after finding out my baby boy "Dante" who is a 10 year old, tuxedo dsh has diabeties. I was devistated. I had to leave him there till saturday so they can do more blood tests and urine tests which broke my heart. Other then crystals in his urine a few years ago he has been fine. The reading the vet got was 450! I feel so bad cause he has been drinking and eating excessively for at least a month now and I thought it was the food I switched him to. I was glad to see him drinking alot because I thought it was better for the crystals he had in his urine. He has always liked water so I thought it was a good thing. His diet consisted of friskies canned food 1/2 can a day and free dry food which I just switched him to Pure Vita a little over a month ago. Prior to that he was getting Natures Instinct.
So I came home and googled what to feed a cat with diabeties and thats how I found this wonderful informative website. I really hope that I can find a way to deal with this in a simple yet productive way that my boy will be healthy again and live another 10 + years, God willing.
Please have patience with me as I still don't know quite how this forum works. I've never been a part of anyhting like this before.
Thanks,
Lisa
 
Hi and welcome! I'm taking my 13 year old Manx to the vet today to get checked out. He's got all the symptoms and I'm convinced that he's diabetic. I was previously feeding the best foods, or so I thought! I ran out of crunchies a few days back and haven't gotten anymore so they've been off them for a bit now and considering I'm glad I didn't get anymore. I've got Fancy Feast and Friskies and have been giving him several small meals a day till we find out what's happening. He seems to be feeling a bit better but still drinking quite a bit and peeing more than he should be.

There's tons of info here and it does seem overwhelming for sure. I'm just hoping my vet knows what he's talking about! Haven't been going to him for very long.
 
I'm fairly new to this too. Tobby was diagnosed in September. This site is amazing that is for sure, but it can be a lot to take in. Take it all one step at a time. We switched him over to a 0 carb diet pretty early on even though the vet wanted him on prescription food. With the food information I found here I was able to show her how that wasn't going to help him. He has gone from 1.5 units 2 x a day to .5 a unit 2 x a day and he is still too low I think so we are doing more tests next week. He is however feeling worlds better and doing things he hasn't done in years that I just totally forgot he did. So there is light and hope in this diagnosis. You can both do it. Just breath in, work with your vet but don't let them tell you something you don't think is right. Do the research and move slowly one step at a time.

Best of luck!
 
Welcome ALL of you proud owners of a very special breed of cat!! The Sugarcat:-)

There are 3 keys to diabetic cat care.

Diet: Low carb high protein wet or raw. I have two sugarcats and 12 nondiabetics or civies. Everyone here eats what my sugars do which is just plain old pate style Friskies.

Home testing: Human glucometers work just fine. This not only keeps your baby safe while on insulin and keeps money in your pocket. We can teach you how.

And insulin: You want a gentle long lasting one. The best are Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc. You want to avoid NPH also known as Humulin N.

Ask tons of questions and read everything you can find on this site there is a wealth of information and tons of great folks who will hold your hand and paws every step on this marvelous journey.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn and The Fur Gang
 
Thanks for all the support. This is awesome, I feel so much better knowing that I'm not alone with this. My Dante is very special to me as I know all of you feel the same about your "kids" or you wouldn't be on here. I knew when I took him to the vet he had diabetes, but when I took him out of the carrier the vet thought he was hyperthyroid, and I said I think it's diabetes. He took him out for a blood test and came back in and said it's diabetes. I'm not bragging but I know my animals so well, I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the vet and told them what to test for. If I didn't my cats and dog would not be here. However, he is sending out bloodwork to check kidneys and thyroid, so I am praying that he doesn't find anything else. I miss him sooo much and can't wait to pick him up tomorrow. I hope he doesn't think I abandoned him cause he hasn't stayed at the vet since he was neutered.

Threesenough - I'm not putting Dante on Science diet either, I already told my vet that. LOL he said he would either! Thank you for the advice.

Pattymac - Good luck at the vet. I hope you get some answers. We will get thru this together :)

MommaOfMuse - Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. I don't know what insulin they will give me, will find out tomorrow. I am getting my testing supplies today, and I'm going out to get alot of low carb canned food so I am ready for when he comes home.

Have a great day everyone!!
 
Welcome to the board

If you haven't bought your testing supplies there is a shopping list below which may help.

In terms of food you want a low carb canned food - it needs to be under 10% calories from carbs as fed. Unfortunately this number is never shown on the can.... however a vet called Dr Lisa Pierson has worked with the pet food companies to work out this number and has produced a list. Its in this link - just make sure the food is less than 10% of calories (column C): http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf.

By the way most of us here feed fancy feast classic pates, frisks pates or wellness grain free canned. No dry.

Wendy

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Thanks for all the support. This is awesome, I feel so much better knowing that I'm not alone with this. My Dante is very special to me as I know all of you feel the same about your "kids" or you wouldn't be on here. I knew when I took him to the vet he had diabetes, but when I took him out of the carrier the vet thought he was hyperthyroid, and I said I think it's diabetes. He took him out for a blood test and came back in and said it's diabetes. I'm not bragging but I know my animals so well, I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the vet and told them what to test for. If I didn't my cats and dog would not be here. However, he is sending out bloodwork to check kidneys and thyroid, so I am praying that he doesn't find anything else. I miss him sooo much and can't wait to pick him up tomorrow. I hope he doesn't think I abandoned him cause he hasn't stayed at the vet since he was neutered.

Threesenough - I'm not putting Dante on Science diet either, I already told my vet that. LOL he said he would either! Thank you for the advice.

Pattymac - Good luck at the vet. I hope you get some answers. We will get thru this together :)

MommaOfMuse - Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. I don't know what insulin they will give me, will find out tomorrow. I am getting my testing supplies today, and I'm going out to get alot of low carb canned food so I am ready for when he comes home.
 
Thanks Wendy for all the advice and shopping list. It's been a week since my Dante came home from the vet. He is doing very well so far with his shots and bg testing. The first day he came home I was concerned cause he was very weak, and just wanted to sleep. I talked to the tech at the vet and she said he really didn't like it there the 2 nights he spent there, and there were alot of barking dogs in the hospital (he hates that). So I guess he was just very exhausted from all the stress. By the next day he was much better. All week he had a very good appetite, seemed like he was always hungry. He's been getting 9 lives, and friskies pate food only. The vet gave me 2 cans of purina w/d in gravy, and when I looked it up it had 10 carbs, plus it had wheat gluten, soy , and corn in it, so I returned it. I'm making sure I give him food that has 4 to 6 carbs. I also give the freeze dried treats now. Today I was a bit concerned because he threw up his breakfast 5 minutes after he ate it. He threw up his breakfast yesterday also, but it was 45 min after giving his insulin. He had a vet check yesterday, so when I took him in his bg level was 208, and she didn't seem too concerned about him vomiting. Since he threw up today before it was time for his insulin, I decided not to give it. His appetite was down, even for his treats, so I tested his blood and it was 96. I called the vet, and they said just to see if he eats throughout the day, and retest tonight before it's time for his insulin. He did eat a little more of his breakfast about 45 min after he threw up. This is all so new to me and I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Unfortunately I am quite the perfectionist, and I'm trying not to let that affect the way I'm treating him. I just want to run thru my regimen for the first week to see what other members think and would love any feedback.
I feed him 1/4 can at 7:30am, 12:30pm, 4:30pm, and 7:30pm. I was giving him 1/2 a can but it was a little too much. He gets 2 units of insulin at 8am, and 8pm. He hasn't been drinking as much and the litter seems to not have as much urine as it did. A little hard to tell cause I switched our other cat to canned food now, so nobody gets dry anymore, and I think she is peeing more too. I tested his bg last sat. night and it was 264. Then tested on Tuesday morning before his insulin shot and it was 163, tested on thursday afternoon around 4pm and it was 177. Today was the first time he did not have a ravenous appetite, didn't even want to eat the dogs food, which he has been trying to sneak every chance he gets. :) Our dog gets dry food, Natures Instinct, so I only give it to her when I'm around so I can watch to make sure he doesn't get any. So as I said earlier I tested him this morning and it was 96. Big difference from yesterday at vet = 208, but he was very nervous being there again.

So that's my story. To me he is doing well, but would love to know what other members think.

"Thanks"
Lisa
 
He seems to be doing very well to me too, those are good numbers :-D Have you skipped insulin/lowered the dose for any reason other than the vomiting, or is he getting 2U twice a day every day?
 
Sounds like he may be on the way to going off the juice. My Samwise (GA)went off insulin after a month of canned only food. I fed him Fancy Feast and Friskies. He was off for over a year. Keep up the tests and the vomiting will taper off and quit soon. My Sammy used to eat way to fast and barf a lot. Once he knew he was getting canned food forever he quit puking. Good luck with your ktity! dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat
 
What kind of insulin are you giving him ?

I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Wendy
 
Thanks everyone for the answers. I'm getting more confused with tests and he's not very happy with me getting stuck so much. He was sooo good with his insulin shots, but the other day he got pissed and tried to bite me!! He never does that!!

Wendy ~ The insulin I'm giving is the PZI. I've been testing more often but not as much as you suggested. I've been testing before I give him his shot. His levels are like a roller coaster. As I said in my earlier post, Sat. morning he was 96, and as the day went on his appetite increased. When I tested him that night before his shot it was 278, I gave him 2 units at 8pm. Then in the morning we tested before his shot and it was 314, I gave him 2 units, and called the vet. I take him to a practice that has multiple vets, and the vet on call was not any of the 3 that have seen him so far. That's one thing I hate, I wish I only had 1 vet working with me. Anyway the vets office said to test again around 4:30 and they would call me at 5 for the result. I tested him and it was 95, so I did not give shot. We tested again this morning and it was 345. I called the vet and got the one who saw him on friday, she suggested we only give him 1 unit twice a day.

I will try to test at the times you suggested but the 5-7 hour test won't be easy cause I work till 4:30, and he gets his shot at 8am. It's killing me to keep sticking him, his ears are getting sore, and he is getting tired of being poked. I feel so bad and I don't want him to hate me. I'm feeding 4 times a day, and now I'm giving him cooked chipped ham for a treat when I give him his shot. He did so good the first week, he is usaully so lovable to me, but now runs away when I go to hold him.

I really appreciate the help and support. I pray every day that he will go into remission so I don't have to keep poking him. It's actually getting me depressed and taking up so much time cause I feel like I should spend more time with him doing fun things and giving him extra love.

Lisa
 
ok lets see if I can help make it easier

1. the shooting - can you explain your technique to me? What size needle etc? Are you shooting while feeding? He shouldn't feel it

2. Testing - are you always giving a treat when testing? With PZi you don't want to shoot under 150, however you do want to find a dose you can give consistently. I am hoping a PZI user will chip in here but your cat could be bouncing which means he may need a lower dose. bouncing is very common. Best way to find out is to try and get some mid cycle tests for a few days to try and work out how low his dose is taking him. If its taking him too low then you see the roller coaster numbers as his liver panics about the low numbers. Hwever it gets complicated as sometimes the liver panics over normal cat numbers too , having been high while not being treated. So this is where mid cycle testing is important. Cats ears have less nerve endings than humans fingers so they don't really feel it. And its important to keep him safe.. you wouldn't think twice about testing your child with diabetes.. even if they hated it! Also can you try testing while he is snoozing and not restrain him?

You could test at 8am,5pm, 8pm and 10pm. At least for a few days. That would give a lot more info and would help us see whats going on.

Wendy
 
A dab of Neosporin ointment, not cream, may be applied to the ear before testing. Wait a few minutes, wipe it off, then test. It should help the blood bead up and reduce the annoyance of testing.

After getting the test, press firmly on the area to reduce bruising and help healing.

Also, check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for additional ways to assess your cat's health.
 
I think the one unit twice a day is a good start. Preshots and midcycle are the most important numbers for ProZinc. Hopefully with the one unit, his cycles will flatten out a little.

We are working on a protocol for ProZinc. Maybe this info will help:



There is no established protocol for ProZinc. Dose is determined by looking at the history of the kitty – his doses and how he has responded including preshot numbers and midcycle numbers.

Starting Doses
The recommended starting dose for ProZinc or BCPPZI is .5 units or one unit twice daily. It is suggested that if the initial numbers are high, doses can be changed every three cycles, increasing by .5 at a time. If the initial numbers are in the 200-300 range at preshot and midcycle (nadir) numbers are not too low (not 50 and under), increases can be made .25 units at a time. During this early period, especially if wet low carb food is replacing higher carb dry, monitoring is very important. Insulin plus a diet change can result in sudden low numbers or in a gradual lowering of numbers overall, depending on the cat.

Over time, as data is collected and nadir numbers are available, doses can be adjusted more confidently.
If the cat is in the 250+ range at preshot and does not drop 50% or more for nadir, a small adjustment could be considered, if monitoring is possible.
If the cat is in the 250+ range at preshot and drops below 50% at nadir, bouncing is a possibility (bouncing occurs when the cat’s body perceives a drop that is below what has been occurring and releases extra glucose, resulting in an “artificial” rise in numbers) Bouncing most often involves a lower midcycle number than the cat has experienced previously. If bouncing is suspected, any increases in doses should be tiny and monitored carefully.
If the cat is high and flat during the entire cycle, the dose could be raised .5 units, as long as monitoring is possible.

ProZinc and PZI are unique in that they can be dosed in two ways, depending on how the car responds. Some cats seem to do best if a specific dose is held for several cycles. It seems to take that long for their numbers to really change. Some cats respond to a sliding scale, getting a different dose for different preshot numbers. Collecting data will help you see which regiment works best for your cat. If you need help with a sliding scale, ask people on the PZI forum to guide you.

Low Preshot Numbers
The general recommendation for new diabetics is not to shoot a preshot under 200, but to wait 20 minutes (without feeding as food raises blood glucose levels) and retest. If the number is rising and above 200, then a shot can be given with perhaps a little less insulin given.

If midcycle (nadir) numbers are in the 40-50 range, the cat should be carefully monitored for the next couple of hours with tests given every 30 minutes as long as the cat stays low. First small amounts of low carb food can be given to raise the blood glucose levels. If that doesn’t raise the levels, higher carb food should be given. If the levels are dropping and below 40, then honey can be put directly on the cat’s gums. If the numbers still aren’t rising, a trip to an emergency vet is probably necessary.

If one preshot is above 200 and shootable, and one preshot is too low to shoot, it probably means the dose is a little too high and lasting more than the usual 12 hours. Try reducing by at least .25 to see if you get two shootable preshot numbers (ideal) rather than one that is too high and one that is too low to shoot (not ideal)

If you are using U40 syringes and find yourself trying to eyeball doses under .5, you may want to consider using U100 needles and the conversion chart. (Conversion chart) This will allow you to give mini doses.

It is important to test for ketones regularly, at least once weekly even if the cat is eating well and has no infection present. Test daily if any infection is present, the cat is not eating well and/or is in higher ranges. Testing for ketones can catch DKA early. Cats with DKA should be seen immediately by a vet.

Data Collection
Until the bean gets data on their cat’s responses to the insulin, advice on dose changes can be gotten on the forum or from the vet. Using a spreadsheet to record data is the best way to share this data with forum members and the vet.

 
Oh Lisa, {{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}

Don't be depressed about helping your kitty with this new sugardance. It's hard and takes some time to develop a routine and some confidence that you are doing the right thing. Once you see signs of improvement with Dante, like the pee patch size getting smaller and smaller and less frequent, or the purring starts up, or to see him more active, seeing him acting like his old self, then you'll know it's all been worth it.

Please, come cry on our shoulders. We're here for sympathy and emotional support as well as the how to's of this sugardance.

Hang in there, it get's easier with time. We've all been there and understand, more than you will ever know.

ETA: That's my beautiful tuxedo boy, Wink, pictured over there to the right. Go tuxies!!!!! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT
 
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