New and confused....Sacramento CA

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kbersny

kbersny

Member Since 2013
Hi, I am new to this board and I have been digging around on it for hours now. I can't seem to figure out sub forums so I hope posting here on the Main Forum is ok. My name is Kim and I have a female cat named Beast, about 5 years old. She was diagnosed little over a year ago as diabetic. She also weighed 28lbs at time of diagnosis. My vet put her on 3 units of Lantus twice per day 1/4 cup of Purina DM (dry) twice per day. Vet has since done glucose curve (I think that is what it is called) and says she is good with the 3 units of lantus 2X per day. She has only lost about 2lbs since diagnosis. I have become concerned with her not losing weight and have begun digging for answers. I am finding that I should be feeding Beast a wet diet and home testing. Beast is doing well, no problems so up until the lack of weight loss I had no reason to question the corse of action given by my vet. Now I am overwhelmed by all the information and have no idea what I should do, frankly I just want to sit in my room and cry. I live in Sacramento CA and was hoping to find someone experienced with wet food feeding and home testing in my area that might be willing to meet with me and help me understand how it all works.
 
Re: New and confused

I don't live near you and I'm not an advice giver as I too just started to "overwhelm" myself with all of this information, but you're without a doubt in the right place. I just started posting here recently and the people are incredibly helpful. Someone with more knowledge will come by soon enough, but I too was given Purina DM dry food by my vet, and while I'm sure it was somewhat better than what I was feeding her, wet food seems to be the real consensus as to the food type you need to transition over into.

I had absolutely no clue about home testing either before yesterday and I already feel much more comfortable realizing this will be a part of my treating my cat and monitoring her health.
 
Totally understand how you are feeling. We all come here confused, upset and feeling helpless. So, let's work on fixing that for you now.

First you are using an excellent insulin!
However, 3 units to start is a lot of insulin. We typically recommend starting at 1 unit or less.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and the prescription food like DM is expensive, higher in carb than we recommend and really nothing special. The good thing, you can return it to the vet. Just tell them that the cat refuses to eat it. ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here is a link to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... http://www.catinfo.org

If you look on the right side of her site, she has a food comparison chart to help you figure out what food you want to get based on the carb %.

You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. (Personally, I stay between 0-6% carbs.)

While on her site, you can read about in-depth info. on nutrition and how to make raw food, etc.

Here is another link that will give more information about food/nutrition

Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

If you want to learn to home test - we can help teach you how to do it online! Yes, we can and you will be able to. Just let us know and we will help.

3. Insulin: As I mentioned Lantus is an excellent insulin and one of the three we recommend using.

To learn more about Lantus, how it works and how to store it, please click on the following links


STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - NEW TO THE GROUP? PLEASE READ... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - INFO, PROPER HANDLING, & STORAGE viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151


STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - WHAT IS THE INSULIN DEPOT? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=150

STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SHOOTING & HANDLING LOW NUMBERS viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

Here is the link toget you to the lantus forum
Lantus Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness.

Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!
 
Posting here is totally fine! It's the best place to start.

First I wouldn't worry too much about weight loss right now.. It's a slow process that can take a while. If we get him regulated and on a good diet, it will follow naturally. Let's get him feeling good first!!

Lantus is a great insulin, your vet made a good choice. However that's a high starting dose.. It's ok while you are feeding the high carb purina DM dry, but if your goal is remission (which it should be since many cats can and do get there) you want to switch to a low carb wet. That will also help with weight loss.

Many of us here feed the fancy feast classic pâtés, friskies pâtés or wellness grain free since they are low carb and reasonably priced. However you don't want to switch until you are home testing as many cats will drop blood sugar fast and even go into remission with a food change ... and if you aren't home testing you can overdose the insulin.

So to summarize , let's get you home testing first. Then we work on switching food and reducing dose. Sound good? I am hoping we can find someone near you but if not, we are here for you every day and much of the night so we can answer as many questions as you like.

Ready to home test? I can send you a shopping list..

Wendy
 
Hi, Kim ~
First of all, welcome. You're going to get lots of amazing help here.
Secondly, I live in Sacramento. I can't give dosing advice, but I can help you with home-testing. I've been treating my Ripley for about 10 months now.
Please PM me if you'd like!
:YMHUG:

~Josie
 
Thank you all for responding. Hillary & Maui, thank you for all the links! I am happy to know that I can transition all (4) of my kitties to the same food this will help a lot a feeding time. You are correct my vet (please don't get me wrong, not at all bashing my vet) sent me home with Insulin a dosage amount and instructions on hypoglycemia and did not ever mention home testing. My girl is very tolerant (with me anyway :)) and usually will let me do most things to her. Even putting her in a tub of water for a bath after a trip to the vet as she ALWAYS urinates on herself. Try bathing a 26lb kitty in the tub by yourself...whew that's quite the chore.

Wendy & Tiggy, thank you also for you assistance with a shopping list for home testing supplies that will be of great help to me.

I just spoke with her vet and in the conversation I asked what her glucose levels were when she came in unfortunately we started talking about other things and I didn't end up getting starting levels. I did get the levels from her curve that was done after she had been on the 3 units of lantus. Her levels started that morning at 8 am at 190 and remained between 100-120. My vet also said that University of Davis California Endocrinology program is against home testing because they feel that home testing over time can lead to much adjusting of the insulin and result in dangerously low levels. Even more confused now :(

I am going to try to transition her to wet food and would very much appreciate all help and advise with home testing. She by the way, started out in May 2012 at 28.5lbs and she is now 25lbs. Vet says we should use 18lbs for a good weight loss goal and this would mean only giving her 250 calories per day? So in little over a year she has lost 3lbs
 
Here is the shopping list below. The goal with home testing is to keep your cat safe and from having these lows. Not to cause them!

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

We have a formula for weight n calories too..
Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70
Wendy
 
A starting dose for Lantus may be calculated by taking the lower of current weight or ideal weight, in kilograms, multiplied by 0.25.

For 18 lbs:
18 / 2.2 * 0.25 = 2.05 units, round down to 2 units, every 12 hours.

Safe weight loss is described on Dr Pierson's web page Cat Info - Feline Obesity. Losing weight too quickly may overload the liver with fat, resulting in feline hepatic lipidosis, which may be fatal.
 
BJM said:
You mentioned she was 28 pounds and had lost 2 pounds.
How much should she weigh?

A starting dose for Lantus may be calculated by taking the lower of current weight or ideal weight, in kilograms, multiplied by 0.25.
If 26 lb was her ideal weight:
26 / 2.2 * 0.25 = 2.98 units as a starting Lantus dose.

But it sounds like she needs to lose weight? Or is she a very large framed cat, perhaps a special breed?
Click to expand...


She is over weight, talked with her vet tonight. Vet is saying a good weight goal for her is to get down to 18lbs. My numbers were off a little as far as her starting weight. In May of 201 she was at 28.5 and she is now at 25 so total of 3.5 lbs of weight loss in little over a year.
 
I revised my post above.

Your starting dose of insulin may be too high, since it should be based on lean weight - in this case ideal weight.

It may not show up as a problem for a day or two because Lantus builds up its effect over time. On the initial dose, it takes about 5 days to stabilize its effect; subsequent doses take about 3 full days to stabilize.
 
Think about testing this way - if the diabetic were you or a human family member, such as a child - do you think that your doctor would instruct you not to test yourself or family member? Certainly not. Humans always test - why because they need to know if it is safe to give insulin.

Therefore, why is it any different because the one being tested is a cat?

Another way to think about this - would you put a paper bag over your head and cover your eyes, get in a car and drive down the street? Certainly not - why because it's not safe -- again, giving insulin without testing is like driving blindfolded - why - because it's not safe!

For your understanding - normal non-diabetic bg (blood glucose) range is 40-130 - if you vet said that the day at the vet her numbers were 100-120 - that is actually very good, normal numbers and while just starting out on insulin, the safest thing is to not give insulin with these numbers.

We suggest when starting on insulin and home testing to not give insulin if bg is 200 or lower. Over time, say a couple weeks, that threshold will be lowered and eliminated, but it's a safe way to start out.

Safety is always our primary concern and we will NEVER ask you to do anything that isn't safe or in the best interest of your cat.
 
I am confused about the
Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70

what does 13.6 represent?

My cat's goal weight is 18lbs she weighs 25 now. So would it then be (13.6 x 18) + 70? = 315 calories per day?
 
The 13.6 is a mathematically determined multiplier of the calorie estimation formula.

Do check the Cat Info section on obesity and weight reduction - you want to do that safely.
 
Welcome Kim and Beast!

As you can see, you have gotten a lot of information here. You might want to take some time to go back through all the replies and make a list of questions for anything you need to understand better. You have been given so much information, it will take you some time to review it and get a handle on all that info.

Sending big hugs to you Kim, to let you know it will get better. We can help you lots.

Remember to take good care of yourself first Kim, so you can take better care of Beast.
 
yep 315 calories a day. So thats about 3.5 cans of fancy feast pates a day. But first - testing. Then we can work on food.

let us know when you get the kit and we can advise on how to tips!

Wendy
 
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