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LoufsMama

LoufsMama

Member Since 2022
Good Morning,
I apologize for being very “green” in all this I am completely new to diabetes in cats. I have had cats all my life and I volunteer weekly for a shelter but have never had experience with this. I have a four year old muted calico and another cat we adopted last year. His name is Lucifer and he came from a shelter with little to no information other than he originally came from Kentucky.

We were told he was around four. He is amazing and we love him to pieces. At my recent vet visit I was told that he had signs of being much older than 4 which was already very upsetting for me, only because we adore him and want lots of time with him. He was diagnosed with diabetes. I knew something was wrong with his water intake and his very wet litter.

I am not the happiest with this vet we began seeing them with both cats during the pandemic and I am just not pleased with some things. He was tested last week they promised to call Monday with results never did. I called and they told me they would call by end of day, they didn’t. Finally when I got these results they are telling me I have to wait until Wednesday to talk to the doctor that saw him to get insulin information.

I plan to switch him over to a different facility but want to get him settled first because I don’t want any further delay. I tried to talk to them today about what to feed him and they keep putting me off until Wednesday and I’m very frustrated. I have been on the internet all night and called off work to try to get him settled. I gather from what I learned that he needs to eat twice a day wet food, high protein low carb.

He was originally used to eating dry food free feed and half a can of wet at dinner. Is there someone who could at least tell me where to start with his food today. I saw Tiki cat on the list and I have that available to me at my shelter store. Can I switch him to this today and how much does he get? One small can in morning and one in afternoon or is it a split? I don’t want to change his food and have his blood sugar go low either because he doesn’t have his meds yet. His rate at testing came back at a 400 level.

I plan to go to Walmart and get a meter as well as I saw the information about testing him. Any help anyone can give about his food while I sort through the vet mess would be so very appreciated. Thank you.
 
Is he on insulin yet? If not, then you can change the food. You want to avoid any type of canned food with gravy in it such as shreds or bits. Usually pate flavors are lower in carbs. If you can, start removing the dry food also. You will need to feed him extra canned food. Right now his body is not processing food properly and he will be very hungry. It is best to try to feed multiple meals during the day. A timed feeder can help with that. Also, since you have another cat, now would also be a great time to convert both of their diets over to canned low carb. It will help keep Lucifer from cheating and also lower the risks for the other developing feline diabetes.

If you have started insulin, do not change the food yet until you start testing. Changing the diet can significantly lower glucose levels and you do not want him to become hypoglycemic. If he is on insulin, what insulin are you using and what is the dose?

It is great you are planning to start home testing. That is the best way to help get Lucifer's glucose under control and see how well the dose is working. Don't be surprised if the vet tries to discourage home testing. Unfortunately we do hear that often. Just remember, Lucifer is your cat and you are in charge of caring for him. You do not need your vet's permission to home test nor do you need the prescription diet they may try to sell to you. That food is high in carbs.
 
Thank you so much for reaching out. I’m just so lost and I want to help him. So he has not started insulin yet, they presented me with the options of vetsulin and Lantus. After doing much reading I feel confident with choosing lantus. So that’s what we will choose once the vet does get back.

I looked at the list of canned foods on here and plan to make a run for him today to switch them over. I was told half of a 5.5 oz can of food twice a day. Is that correct? And I know you stated small meals throughout the day. I work from home so I can split the can into quarters? I’m sorry I just want to understand how to feed him now and he may be starting the insulin on Wednesday or Thursday.
 
What are his current and ideal weight? Generally speaking they need about 20-30 calories per lb to maintain weight. My cat is about 14 lbs and eats almost 2 5.5 oz cans a day...when he was unregulated and losing a bit of weight it was closer to 4 5.5oz cans
 
Thank you so much everyone. Right now he is 13.8 lbs. I don’t know ideal to be honest they just told me to put him on high protein low carb diet and that he needs to lose weight and it may help him. I wanted to try to switch him today to get him started before the insulin.
 
LoufsMama said:
Thank you so much everyone. Right now he is 13.8 lbs. I don’t know ideal to be honest they just told me to put him on high protein low carb diet and that he needs to lose weight and it may help him. I wanted to try to switch him today to get him started before the insulin.
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Ok then for now I'd aim for around 20 calories per lb at a target weight of 13 lbs, worry about weight later (and next visit ask them about ideal weight)

Try to transition the food over the course of a few days, abrupt changes can upset the tummy. My cat however wanted nothing to do with his old food as soon as I put the new stuff out so...it was an immediate switch lol
 
Okay, I will begin that, go shopping shortly for approved foods on the list. So for him it may be closer to two cans a day right now. (5.5 oz)
 
Hi Lucifer and Lucifer's mom, welcome to the absolute best possible place to get your boy the most help available! Glad you found us. This place is like a life preserver thrown to a drowning person....I was barely keeping my head above water and then they saved me. (and Hendrick)

As Melissa just mentioned -- scrap that feed only twice a day garbage. That is very old-school thinking from when the insulin available to cats did not work the way insulin today does, today's insulin is much gentler and longer lasting and most diabetic felines do way way better on two larger meals at shot-time, then smaller meals scattered throughout the day but usually not in the later part of the 12-hour insulin "cycle" as the insulin is wearing off at that point.

definitely recommend Lantus (insulin glargine) or a generic it has done wonders for my boy Hendrick.

I am pretty new to all this as well so I will leave the vast majority of the advice and knowledge-sharing to the senior members here who are literal angels, donating time and energy to help complete strangers and their furbuddies. We can be new at this together, I'll see you around the forum!

How about a pic of your sweet boy let's see him!
 
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Thank you! I am so glad I found you all too. I was incredibly overwhelmed and emotional and trying to sort through it all. I just added him to my profile so you all can see him. We met him at a cat cafe that adopts out kitties and we fell in love. He is a total cuddler.
 
LoufsMama said:
Thank you so much for reaching out. I’m just so lost and I want to help him. So he has not started insulin yet, they presented me with the options of vetsulin and Lantus. After doing much reading I feel confident with choosing lantus. So that’s what we will choose once the vet does get back.
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There are also two other insulins that are biosimilar to Lantus but less expensive. They are all insulin glargines and work the same way. One is Semglee and the other is Basalagar. We also recommend using the pens instead of the vials. You will use the pens as miniature vials and use U100 syringes to withdraw the insulin. We recommend the pens since the insulin will remain effective longer than a vial and you will not waste any insulin. Depending on your dose, one pack of 5 pens can be enough insulin to last almost a year. You should check around to different pharmacies to compare costs. Also if you are in the US and decide to use Lantus, many members order their insulin from Canada.

We know you are feeling overwhelmed right now. You have found the best place to be and we can help you understand all of this.
 
Yes that’s totally him a big love bug.

Thank you that’s good to know too! My biggest thing is giving him the best medicine we can and I would like it to be a pen.

I went to the store and used the list on here and got a ton of different wet foods. Tiki cat and Fancy Feasts that were listed.
 
LoufsMama said:
I went to the store and used the list on here and got a ton of different wet foods. Tiki cat and Fancy Feasts that were listed.
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I didn't want to bombard you right off the bat but I think it's time...

for Lucifer to get help from the experts here, please setup a tracking spreadsheet and also it is really important to put information in your signature line about your kitty, the insulin in use, food being fed, etc -- so the kind experts here do not have to keep asking the same questions.


Please take a look at this link:

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

And this one:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/



And then for home BG testing, check this out:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

and I'm sure Diane will be along to add all of her useful tips and tricks. @Diane Tyler's Mom is awesome.
 
I will work on all this later tonight and tomorrow. The vet finally reached out. We are calling in Lantus today. I go into the office for a teach tomorrow to learn his shots. I’m in healthcare and I have experience with people shots so I at least have that. Just need to learn how and where for a cat.
 
Some other things helpful to you and Lucifer's profile. Other animals in the home, was Lucifer ever an outdoor cat, previous medical conditions, your time and financial constraints, do you have help at home? It's not an invasion of privacy, keep your last name and contact info out of it. Be honest about your mistakes, we've all made some doozies but no one here will ever shame you. We're all in the same leaky boat.
There's always someone here but your general location and time zone can help in an emergency.
Take a deep breath, you're doing the right thing even if that means finding out what "a forever home" means. Diabetes isn't a death sentence, it's just an inconvenience. I came here too late for my first sugar cat but both had a long list of medical oddities and diabetes never shortened their beautiful lives.
You're already familiar with what most people call "furniture", I hope you took lots of photos on your last vacation. Welcome from your new best friends.
 
Thank you everyone and I’m sorry I haven’t been back on or had any luck updating the documents yet. I had to rush Lucifer to the vet today. I’m completely distraught. He was having strange seizure like activity. I’m learning how to do his shots and they gave him a sedative like Valium to calm him and are going to monitor him until this afternoon. He does not have keytones in his urine, no signs of infection, his blood sugar was high but not super high they say to do this. I feel like I’m going to throw up and I just can’t do anything but wait right now.
 
LoufsMama said:
We are calling in Lantus today.
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Try to get the glargines that are less expensive than real Lantus
Try GoodRx. coupons
https://www.goodrx.com/semglee?dosa...ulin glargine&quantity=1&sort_type=popularity
GoodRx-glargine.png
 

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We have been in and out of the vets office all day. They gave him an anti epileptic medications and it has made him somewhat loopy. He did not have a full convulsing seizure but he was out of it and just not himself. No one has given me any answers. His sugar is in the high 400s no keytones no infection. They say they don’t know if it’s related to the diagnosis or not. Has anyone experienced this I’m so scared for him. I finally got his insulin so I can start it tomorrow. They made me wait days due to short staffing and I had to basically beg today. I’m so frustrated. I don’t know if he would’ve already been on his way to feeling better and maybe this wouldn’t have happened?
 
Thank you for your kind words. This is the first time I have had a moment to sit and breathe lol. We had a very long day and night. He had multiple seizures and it was horrific.

I have not really slept in two days. However, he started two new meds last night from emergency vet for epilepsy. I will add those to signature too. We are still unsure of the cause because his tests all look great. But, around 2am last night he started to relax and be himself. I don’t wanna say it but he hasn’t had any more of them since then. He is taking these every 12 hours. He also started his Glargine (Basaglar) this morning. He goes in for curve testing sometime next week.

I home tested him about two hours after his morning food and insulin and he’s at 338. He’s been like 483 regularly so I think that’s a bit better. How long does it take effect to lower? I know he’s only on 3 units right now so I don’t know if it’ll stay or have to go up or down. Right now just praying to get him stable and happy.
 
I know it's easier said than done but you need to take care of yourself during these times. The first time a vet said "it just wasn't meant to be" I almost strangled her but now I know what she meant. I've had cats that ate pig slop, got hit by a car, fell out of a third floor window and went on to a 23 year long life. Alvin's life was maybe 23 days but he was never cold again or had to fight for his food.
I've had MRI's and have let them go on the spot, sometimes there's just so little we can do.
Don't give up, it's a life worth fighting for. You just need to know someone else has been there. :bighug:
 
LoufsMama said:
Thank you for your kind words. This is the first time I have had a moment to sit and breathe lol. We had a very long day and night. He had multiple seizures and it was horrific.

I have not really slept in two days. However, he started two new meds last night from emergency vet for epilepsy. I will add those to signature too. We are still unsure of the cause because his tests all look great. But, around 2am last night he started to relax and be himself. I don’t wanna say it but he hasn’t had any more of them since then. He is taking these every 12 hours. He also started his Glargine (Basaglar) this morning. He goes in for curve testing sometime next week.

I home tested him about two hours after his morning food and insulin and he’s at 338. He’s been like 483 regularly so I think that’s a bit better. How long does it take effect to lower? I know he’s only on 3 units right now so I don’t know if it’ll stay or have to go up or down. Right now just praying to get him stable and happy.
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where did this 3u come from as a starting dose? That seems awfully high to me. @tiffmaxee thoughts? @Suzanne & Darcy @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA)
 
to answer your question, it can take some time after starting insulin to see much in the way of results. Sometimes weeks, as you tweak dosing until you find the right amount which actually works and breaks through. Insulin Glargine is a depot insulin so it needs to build the depot as well.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
where did this 3u come from as a starting dose? That seems awfully high to me. @tiffmaxee thoughts? @Suzanne & Darcy @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA)
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Welcome. That is WAY too high a starting dose. Please test every 2 hours and post the results. Tonight give 1.0. You will hold 1.0 fir 7 days. Test before every shot and if lowe than 200, ask fir help. Stall, DON’T FEED until you get a reply. While waiting, test again in 20-30 minutes to see if around 200 bg.
 
Hi everyone.
So I gave him that 3units at 830 tested him at 10 or 1015 he was at 338. Now I tested him and he’s at 359.

Okay, I didn’t know if it was bad that it’s not lower than that yet or if it’s a thing that takes time to do. So 3 seems high as a start? That scares me. I feel like I need a vet more versed in diabetes thank you for helping me he’s been through so much and he’s such a happy guy I want to get him stable.

I gave him the can of fancy feast this morning and then the 3 units. They only have him on once a day injections of the 3 right now. I have a stock of karo syrup because I’m terrified.
 
LoufsMama said:
They only have him on once a day injections of the 3 right now.
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Yes, 3 units is way too high of a starting dose and could be potentially dangerous. Also, insulin needs to be given every 12 hours. It will not last beyond 12 hours and his glucose will just go up very high again and will stay that way until he receives his next shot.
 
Have you read this yet? It describes the two dosing methods used here. It is a "sticky note" found on the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars forum.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

Post here with anything you don't understand. There will be loads of people to help you! We love helping people and their kitties here.

OBTW, you can do your own curve (sound like you may already have one in progress today? or was that yesterday?) and really don't need to pay to have the vet do one! Save your money for other veterinary expenses! You can show the vet the numbers that you got every two hours for the curve. How's the home testing going? Are you getting the knack of it?

I'm so sorry about everything that happened with the seizures. That is REALLY scary. I would have been beside myself with worry if that happened to one of my babies! Big hugs to you!
 
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Yes I have been checking every two to three hours today. They had on my home sheet the home testing but crossed it out and told me not to do it to bring him in. Which I am testing him anyway because I need to know he’s okay. I have been trying to locate a different vet because I’m just not happy with the help I’m getting but also didn’t want to pull out before we had his meds and things. I will definitely read all this and my husband and I are going to try to create the charts we need tonight.

Has anyone heard of acromegaly in a cat? The vet is saying that he may have just ended up developing epilepsy and diabetes at the same time coincidentally. But they are also wanting me to do another blood test and possibly head scans to look at acromegaly. They state it is insanely rare and he has none of the symptoms of physical features but they can’t understand why his health and panels are perfection but this neuro thing happened to him.

Right now I’m just getting him regulated for insulin and his seizure meds. He’s doing good today so I refuse to rush in and put him through anything more at the moment.
 
LoufsMama said:
Has anyone heard of acromegaly in a cat?
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Yes. My cat was an acro kitty. Don't jump the gun on thinking that he has acromegaly. Acromegaly is a benign tumor on the pituitary gland of the kitty. It causes excess growth hormone to be produced. It definitely causes insulin resistance. Right now you have no way of knowing if he is insulin resistant at all. My boy was up over 40 units of Lantus at one point. Acromegaly kitties are usually very high dose kitties. If you are not able to get him regulated at a lower dose, then you might want to look into Acromegaly. Acromegaly is diagnosed via a blood test that is done at Michigan State University. It tests for Insulin Like Growth Factor 1 (IGF1) levels. That is how it is diagnosed. I would not spend money on a brain scan or anything like that at this point (unless you make the decision to do this because of seizures and not because of suspected acromegaly.) As I said, Acromegaly is diagnosed via that IGF-1 blood test.
 
We have/have had quite a few Acro cats on this Board. I really think it's not as rare as some vets think. Most cats do not present with facial features/body features of an acromegaly cat. My boy didn't for sure. I think it takes years of having acromegaly before things like that are noticeable. But every cat is different. I can remember the vet saying... but he doesn't look like an acrocat.

Honestly, you have enough to worry about right now. Don't put the cart before the horse!
 
LoufsMama said:
You guys are the best thank you so much. I would be lost without all this. So basically I’ll give him lunch and my plan is to get him regulated on his meds for neuro and insulin. I will keep testing too.
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This is an excellent plan. Kiss on the top of the head to dear Lucifer.
 
I had to run to my mom's house sorry just catching up

so not only THREE units but only once a day?? what the...that won't work at all. Needs to be every 12 hours at least my vet knew that much.
I highly recommend going with the recommendation of 1u every 12 hours. I was as lost as you and my boy was in serious trouble. I listened to the people here with literal decades of experience specializing in treating diabetic felines and it paid off bigtime. I cannot stress this enough, it feels weird to not listen to your vet but in this particular case I went with the experts here and boy were they right on the money.

2 hours before shot-time, with hold all food and then always always always do a pre-shot test to make sure it is safe to shoot the insulin, then feed, then a test 2-3 hours later when the insulin is kicking in.

It should be about a 5-15 minute process -- test to make sure it is safe to shoot insulin, feed the kitty, shoot the insulin.

Lucifer is in my thoughts, sending good vibes his way!!
 
LoufsMama said:
Has anyone heard of acromegaly in a cat?
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Way too early to test for acromegaly! My acromegalic girl got to a high of 8.75 units. Not all get to that high a dose as Suzanne's sweet Darcy did, I've eve seen some on 4 units. And yes, it's not an uncommon condition, about one in 4 diabetic cats have it. But, and this is the big one, still too early to test for it. Studies have shown that cats can have false negatives in the test if blood blood for the test is taken within the first 73 days of starting insulin. So, let's not go there right now. And maybe not even later.

First steps first, start with a better starting dose of insulin suggested above. Lantus is a depot style insulin, meaning it takes a few days to build the depot and see what the dose is capable of. We stick with the starting dose for 5-7 days before making changes, as long as there are no ketones or DKA in the picture.
 
I tested Louf before dinner and his reading was 316. I FINALLY made my spreadsheet and signature, let me know if I did anything incorrectly. I am going to go add numbers now.
 
jeez my spreadsheet for Hendrick didn't have that much data for a like a week when I started out

You're rocking it, very impressive!

there's a silly rule about threads not exceeding 50 posts so the proper thing to do is start a new one pretty soon if you have more questions, i guess (and link to this one)

also, you may want to start posting on the Lantus/Biosimilars forum with a daily thread reporting the BG numbers
 
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