New and at Wits End..

[Mr. Biggs & J]

Fair warning, this post is going to be just.. emotional. Some would say melodramatic. I'm sorry.

My name is Jennifer and I've had Biggs [or Mr. Biggs] going on five years. He's been my heart and he's been there for me through thick and thin but honestly it's just.. I'm reaching my breaking point.

Long story short he was diagnosed as diabetic back in October of 2017. He was put on Lantus/Glargine as that was the "best chance at going into remission" even though it's insanely expensive. I'm sure many of you are well aware of the price but combined with the box of needles it's just over $300.

Each visit to the vet, which used to be bi-weekly, but has now become weekly, is around $100. Today it was that and some change.

It's been months and he's shown almost zero signs of improving. Multiple times he's gone back and started to lose weight rapidly so he's had to be bumped up..

Right now? As of today? He's officially at 9 units of insulin.

To pile on on to the **** show I've been informed that his heartbeat sounds funny. He has a "gallop" rhythm [three beats instead of the normal two] and she said it would be expensive to get him checked out at the cardiologist.. and "expensive" turns out to be $650... APPROXIMATELY... but she thinks it's playing a role in his diabetes and him not responding to the insulin.

I don't know what to do. I know that what I can't do is keep on like this. I love him.. so dearly.. but I can't keep emptying my wallet out like this. I'm on his third vial of Lantus and god knows how many vet visits I've had..

I refuse to buy that AlphaTrak monitor. The monitor itself is fine but as so many other people have said they price gouge you on the strips.. and yet I look at the "human" branded monitors and I'm just.. it's overwhelming. I can't make a choice, I can't figure out all of this.. what curves are, how to make sure I'm monitoring him properly.. there are so many threads and so much information and I just can't take it all in.

This post has rambled on for so long.. I'm just so sorry. There's been so much stress in my life with all kinds of other things and with all of this ..bull... it's just.. I don't know what to do.

I know people are probably tired of repeating the same things over and over to the newbies but just.. please. If someone can give me some advice on how to just.. manage some of this.. Please help me.

 

[Zoey & Carol]

I know how you feel! It seems overwhelming, and there is so much to learn. First of all, just breathe. You have come to the right place for help. It sounds like you are paying way too much for the treatment of diabetes. The most important thing, in my opinion, is home testing. I use a Relion Prime human meter from WalMart. It's inexpensive, and the strips are $18.00/100 strips. Others prefer Relion Confirm because it uses a smaller drop of blood, but the strips are a little more expensive. (Although not nearly as expensive as the AlphaTrak!)

Someone will be on here soon to give you some help with testing. I know Janet has a video that shows how to do it. It seems difficult at first, but after a while it just becomes routine. My kitty Zoey even jumps up onto the dryer (her testing spot) to let me know she thinks it's time to eat. She associates testing with eating...and that's a good thing!

I promise it gets easier (and cheaper)! Although Zoey had a bout with kidney issues earlier this year, which was really expensive!

I'm not a Lantus user (ProZinc), but 9 units seems like quite a large dose. What kind of food does Mr. Biggs get? Wet low carb food is best for diabetic kitties. Fancy Feast Classic Pates is used by a lot of people here. Just be sure to be monitoring his BG before switching foods.

Hang in there!

 

[JanetNJ]

Once I started testing my cat didnt go back to the vet for a year. I just occasionally email my vet her spreadsheet.


I like my alphatrak but it is expensive at about a dollar a strip. Still a lot cheaper than the vet.

If you want a human meter most here use Walmart brand Relion.

1. Relion micro or confirm meter (prime requires a bigger sample) ($18)

2. Box of 100 extra test strips ($36)
3. Box of 26 or 28 gauge lancets ($4)

4.cotton cosmetic rounds

5. Neosporin ointment with pain relief

I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

I know how you feel! It seems overwhelming, and there is so much to learn. First of all, just breathe. You have come to the right place for help. It sounds like you are paying way too much for the treatment of diabetes. The most important thing, in my opinion, is home testing. I use a Relion Prime human meter from WalMart. It's inexpensive, and the strips are $18.00/100 strips. Others prefer Relion Confirm because it uses a smaller drop of blood, but the strips are a little more expensive. (Although not nearly as expensive as the AlphaTrak!)

Someone will be on here soon to give you some help with testing. I know Janet has a video that shows how to do it. It seems difficult at first, but after a while it just becomes routine. My kitty Zoey even jumps up onto the dryer (her testing spot) to let me know she thinks it's time to eat. She associates testing with eating...and that's a good thing!

I promise it gets easier (and cheaper)! Although Zoey had a bout with kidney issues earlier this year, which was really expensive!

I'm not a Lantus user (ProZinc), but 9 units seems like quite a large dose. What kind of food does Mr. Biggs get? Wet low carb food is best for diabetic kitties. Fancy Feast Classic Pates is used by a lot of people here. Just be sure to be monitoring his BG before switching foods.

Hang in there!

Thank you for replying.. both you and Janet. I think one of the biggest- aside from the new news from today- stressors for me was trying to figure out this whole meter thing and how to determine what the right level is for him. There are so many out there and I was literally sitting at Walmart for 30 minutes trying to compare the different ones before I couldn't take it and ran out of there [thank you social anxiety]. I'll see about going out tomorrow and picking one of them up, along with extra strips and lancets. Speaking of the lancets.. I thought that the micro thin ones would be best.. but is that not the case? Should I get a different kind?

The vet said that cats can get 1 unit per lb. So.. with him currently at 11.75 lbs he can get a maximum of 11 units.. which you're exactly right, even I said back when we were at 5 units that it was really high.

He's currently getting Fancy Feast Classic Pate [https://www.fancyfeast.com/gourmet-...tes/classic-pate/poultry-beef-variety-pack-30] due to Friskies having changed their formula.. and I thought maybe it was the food that was why he wasn't getting better. He does eat the FF but has much preferred the Friskies.. so I'll be changing him back over to that. He eats it right up and the main point is getting him to eat and get some weight back on him [he should be around 12.5 lbs].

The thing I don't understand is how to find out what his levels are when I'm using the ReliOn monitor. Do I just write down the numbers then give them to the vet? He was tested 4 different times today and they were all still high [396, 410, 385, 330] but I don't know what it'll be like when I start testing him.

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

Once I started testing my cat didnt go back to the vet for a year. I just occasionally email my vet her spreadsheet.


I like my alphatrak but it is expensive at about a dollar a strip. Still a lot cheaper than the vet.

If you want a human meter most here use Walmart brand Relion.

1. Relion micro or confirm meter (prime requires a bigger sample) ($18)

2. Box of 100 extra test strips ($36)
3. Box of 26 or 28 gauge lancets ($4)

4.cotton cosmetic rounds

5. Neosporin ointment with pain relief

I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home

Thank you, Janet, for taking the time to reply. I had actually watched your video before posting my thread so I feel like I have enough confidence to do that. I've been giving him his shots for months now and have zero issue with that.

I'll be picking up one of those meters tomorrow along with extra strips and lancets. Should I get a specific kind of lancet? I thought the micro thin would be good but now I'm not too sure if it would be too small or not.

I know I'm asking a lot but does the spreadsheet just mean your tracking of CC? Kind of like a daily log/journal I suppose. If not, what do you mean by spreadsheet?

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you for replying.. both you and Janet. I think one of the biggest- aside from the new news from today- stressors for me was trying to figure out this whole meter thing and how to determine what the right level is for him. There are so many out there and I was literally sitting at Walmart for 30 minutes trying to compare the different ones before I couldn't take it and ran out of there [thank you social anxiety]. I'll see about going out tomorrow and picking one of them up, along with extra strips and lancets. Speaking of the lancets.. I thought that the micro thin ones would be best.. but is that not the case? Should I get a different kind?

The vet said that cats can get 1 unit per lb. So.. with him currently at 11.75 lbs he can get a maximum of 11 units.. which you're exactly right, even I said back when we were at 5 units that it was really high.

He's currently getting Fancy Feast Classic Pate [https://www.fancyfeast.com/gourmet-...tes/classic-pate/poultry-beef-variety-pack-30] due to Friskies having changed their formula.. and I thought maybe it was the food that was why he wasn't getting better. He does eat the FF but has much preferred the Friskies.. so I'll be changing him back over to that. He eats it right up and the main point is getting him to eat and get some weight back on him [he should be around 12.5 lbs].

The thing I don't understand is how to find out what his levels are when I'm using the ReliOn monitor. Do I just write down the numbers then give them to the vet? He was tested 4 different times today and they were all still high [396, 410, 385, 330] but I don't know what it'll be like when I start testing him.

The lancets you want are 26 or 28 gauge. The thinner ones ( 30, 33, ect) make it difficult to get a sample. I personally use 28.

Your vet had NO CLUE what he's doing as far as dosing. Cats are not based on weight. The starting dose is 1 unit and should be raised by no more than 0.5 units as needed based on readings. There are only a few conditions such as acromegaly that would require a dose that high. Most cats never need even close to that.

We have a great spreadsheet template you can use when you start testing like the ones you see in our signatures below. We can get you all set up with that when you're ready.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you, Janet, for taking the time to reply. I had actually watched your video before posting my thread so I feel like I have enough confidence to do that. I've been giving him his shots for months now and have zero issue with that.

I'll be picking up one of those meters tomorrow along with extra strips and lancets. Should I get a specific kind of lancet? I thought the micro thin would be good but now I'm not too sure if it would be too small or not.

I know I'm asking a lot but does the spreadsheet just mean your tracking of CC? Kind of like a daily log/journal I suppose. If not, what do you mean by spreadsheet?

The brand of lancet doesn't matter, just look at the gauge number on the box. 26 or 28 gauge.

Look at the signature under what I'm writing and you'll see CC'S spreadsheet. It's all her numbers everyday. Folks on this forum use Google Sheets to track their cats numbers so it's easy to share with each other. Yes is a daily log of readings.

 

[sassycatlady]

I'm sure many of you are well aware of the price but combined with the box of needles it's just over $300.

Each visit to the vet, which used to be bi-weekly, but has now become weekly, is around $100. Today it was that and some change.

Janet,
I've been where you are. I know it's not easy. And sticker shock is just one part of it. First of all, yes the price of Lantus in the US is *extremely* expensive. I almost fainted when I made the trip to the pharmacy to pick up Zander's first bottle (while he was in the vet hospital being treated for DKA, no less - talk about spending big bucks) and found out it was $300. After the initial shock and doing some research on here, I learned that if you order Lantus from a pharmacy in Canada it is MUCH more affordable. Like, over 50% cheaper *(including shipping)* than what you pay here. You can search the threads for it, but the pharmacy that members here use is called Marks Marine and they are so super nice and helpful. They will walk you through the process over the phone once you fax or email in a script. In fact I just received my first order from them today and it came very fast, was well-packaged in a temperature controlled styrofoam box (that costs $10 extra but it's getting really warm where I lived so...just wanted to be cautious).

Once you start home testing and keeping track of the BG numbers on the spreadsheet your vet visits will go down. I think my vet was charging like $100 for a fructosamine test and that's not even a super great indictor of what the insulin dose should be (it's basically a BG average of 2-3 weeks). Once I sent her the link to the spreadsheet it eliminated excessive office visits for testing since I could get advice that way, and plus, she was so, so hyped about that spreadsheet she was showing all the docs and the staff in the clinic - they were seriously blown away by it! . I've taught her a thing or two, apparently, because when I mentioned the Canada pharmacy for Lantus she wanted the information for another one of her clients. So, things we learn here do help not only other kitty caretakers like ourselves, but vets, too!

Hang in there. It will get better. Maybe not overnight, but day by day. Information overload is real, but once you chunk it out into small bits and pieces, it will come together and the puzzle will be complete.

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

The lancets you want are 26 or 28 gauge. The thinner ones ( 30, 33, ect) make it difficult to get a sample. I personally use 28.

Your vet had NO CLUE what he's doing as far as dosing. Cats are not based on weight. The starting dose is 1 unit and should be raised by no more than 0.5 units as needed based on readings. There are only a few conditions such as acromegaly that would require a dose that high. Most cats never need even close to that.

We have a great spreadsheet template you can use when you start testing like the ones you see in our signatures below. We can get you all set up with that when you're ready.

Ok.. step one... breathe.... lord.. step two... get a meter. Step three.. start trying to read up on how the spreadsheets work. That's basically my homework for this weekend.

As for my vet.. yeah.. I just.. I don't know. She's a sweet lady but the dosage is just going up so high that it just seems like he's getting far too much insulin now. He started on 1 unit all the way back in October. I'd have to look at my log book to see exactly when it was that things were changed each time.

Seriously.. THANK you. I feel the need to buy you ladies a drink..

 

[JanetNJ]

Ok.. step one... breathe.... lord.. step two... get a meter. Step three.. start trying to read up on how the spreadsheets work. That's basically my homework for this weekend.

As for my vet.. yeah.. I just.. I don't know. She's a sweet lady but the dosage is just going up so high that it just seems like he's getting far too much insulin now. He started on 1 unit all the way back in October. I'd have to look at my log book to see exactly when it was that things were changed each time.

Seriously.. THANK you. I feel the need to buy you ladies a drink..

I'll take that drink! The spreadsheet isn't as hard as you think and if you have trouble setting it up let us know and we can do it for you! I'll can tag someone who will message you and get your info to do that. You've already done a signature so that's wonderful.

These are the instructions to set it up

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

This is the basics on how to understand it
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

Give it a try and if you have any questions or you get too frustrated let me know and I'll get you help.

 

[JanetNJ]

Ok.. step one... breathe.... lord.. step two... get a meter. Step three.. start trying to read up on how the spreadsheets work. That's basically my homework for this weekend.

As for my vet.. yeah.. I just.. I don't know. She's a sweet lady but the dosage is just going up so high that it just seems like he's getting far too much insulin now. He started on 1 unit all the way back in October. I'd have to look at my log book to see exactly when it was that things were changed each time.

Seriously.. THANK you. I feel the need to buy you ladies a drink..

I just read your signature that your cat is having problems with hind leg weakness. That's neuropathy and can be reversed with better bg control, but the addition of b12 methylcobalamin supplements also helps! Specifically there's a brand called zobaline we like because zobaline comes in a high b12 methylcobalamin concentration (so you don't need a bunch of large pills), crushes to a powder just with fingers which you add to wet food, had little to no flavor, and also has folic acid which helps the b12 absorb better.

Zobaline™ (for Diabetic Cats) 3 mg x 60 tabs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008G3LI2M/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

As was said above, order lantus from Marks Marine pharmacy and it will save a ton.

We have a two dosing protocols for lantus written in the yellow stickies at the top of the lantus forum. One is TR (tight regulation) and one is SLGS. Read them both and see which you are more comfortable with. I will say that sometimes too much insulin can look like not enough. That is when The cat is releasing stored insulin to keep from going too low when a dose is too high. There are also some times when a dose like yours is needed due to other conditions such as acromegaly or Cushing. But unless those have been tested for you won't know. Here's a link to the lantus forum. Please read through the yellow stickies info at the top.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Hi Jennifer and Mr. Biggs. Why were or are you taking him in every week? Some vets honestly think they're helping you because you want what's best for your cat but they can be oblivious to the money you spend once you leave or even what rates the office manager has set. Even cats that are pretty mellow are stressed at the vet and that will directly affect their numbers and maybe even their cardiac functions. I had a cat that jumped in the car with me to see the vet, just walked in the door and pranced around the counter showing off for everyone. But if you tried to clip his nails he would start mouth breathing and get so stressed it had to stop. I'm sure his heart was galloping too.
We've all been where you are now. Why me? Empty bank account. You're in the right place for help and you're not alone.

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

@JanetNJ

This is definitely getting tacked onto my homework sessions. I just picked up the monitor [ReliOn Confirm.. better battery life and stores more tests] with extra strips and lancets today and just tried to take it down a few notches and spend time with my fluff face.

Well there is most definitely a drink with your name written all over it.

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

@sassycatlady

I could have sworn I replied to you yesterday.. but I don't see my post anywhere. I don't remember all of what I included [my apologies for that.. yesterday was.. a whirlwind of emotions...] but I know I'm so thankful to you for giving me that information about the pharmacy. That will help SO much. I will most certainly be giving my vet that same information.

So thank you. THANK you for sharing your knowledge with me!! ♥

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

@Noah & me (GA)

I was mostly taking him every other week but honestly sometimes it was too much and I let an entire month lapse between visits.. but lately it's been once every week because it seems like he's just consistently getting worse.. and now with the weakening of the thighs and his "gallop" heart.. it's just.. hoo boy, let me breathe in.

Ahah! That's awesome though. I'd love it if Biggs didn't mind car rides as much. He seems to be getting better or at least more resigned but he definitely prefers having his paws on solid ground.

Thank you for your kind words though. I most definitely see how welcoming and kind everyone is. It's seriously made me start gaining some hope back and taken at least some stress off my shoulders. Heck, I felt like I probably had a "gallop" rhythm going myself yesterday, haha. But really, thank you. :]

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Of all the grief we go through spending money can still feel almost taboo. It shouldn't be that way considering an MRI could be 3 mortgage payments. My mom was hysterical about money from the day I was born, never had our dogs fixed and if one needed teeth pulled it was just cheaper to get another dog.
You need to be healthy and fairly happy to be able to take care of animals so I was just trying to help without being either intrusive or worse yet, condescending. That's a trait I can't stand in people.
Cats are bad patients, they don't want to be there and don't communicate well. Vets are doctors trained from the first day to solve every mystery. Life doesn't work that way.

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

@Noah & me (GA)

Oh my god.. I am so sorry to hear about that... No, things shouldn't ever be that expensive but... sadly that's the world we seem to live in. I'm also sorry that was your experience growing up.. -HUGS.-

You weren't at all, you were very sweet about it, so again, thank you. ☺

 

[Idjit's mom]

Jennifer, you may want to start a new thread in main forum, so that more ppl will see and get to know you and Mr. Biggs. Lots of members here with varying lengths of time here, as well as experience and knowledge. I try to read lots of new posts so I can learn from the masters, and also cause all these fur kids are so adorable and precious. It's nice to be part of this community.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Yuk yuk! The Masters!!! Idjit's mom is correct, time to step into the big league. You've already figured out how to tag someone, that took me a month.
One thing you'll find in the main forums is that the answers you get may sound more clinical with less humor. Don't mistake that for "less caring". Some people here know more than some vets I've met and they are The Masters. Over time I've had a few PM's from members who think so-and-so is a snob or whatever. Not true, they devote a lot of time here and get nothing in return. Everyone has their own strengths; I can make some people laugh, I post some off color humor, I can cheer you up. I rarely come into New Members and find it painful to look at Grief. Welcome to the Cult

 

[Mr. Biggs & J]

@Idjit's mom @Noah & me (GA)

Then that is what I shall do! And no worries.. anyone who comments with actual advice is taking their own time out their own day to do so and therefore that's already being caring right there. But I totally understand so thank you both. :]

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

You may find this to be the most sane and polite website left on the planet. I didn't think it was possible, wish I had joined years earlier.