? New 6 Oct – Pumpkin – questions.

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Larry and Kitties said:
I had a Scottish Fold, Twiggy, and I really had no problem getting blood from her ears. There was just little to hold onto to hold the ear still while getting the strip end into the drop of blood.
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Would it be possible to collect the sample on a clean fingernail, Larry? Or would the topology of the ear also make that difficult?


Mogs
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Susan Fentz said:
I’m trying to figure out the proper way to reply. Pumpkin was supposed to be American shorthair. A year later he started growing very long hair. We were told he is half Siberian. Several years later his ears shriveled up overnight. I swear! Both of them Simultaneously. His hearing was still good. We took him to the vet and we were told that sometimes happens. I never saw it happen before.
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Not familiar with this phenomenon myself, not sure what it means for getting blood from ears. I guess there's nothing for it but to make the attempt and see how it goes! The alternative is paw pads. Most cats won't allow that, but if they do, reportedly it's a lot easier to get blood out of them, so there's that!
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Testing.
First off, I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie who had a Scottish Fold diabetic cat. She may be able to give you some pointers.
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Roberta and Chloe said:
Maybe he has some Scottish Fold in him, too.
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Well......he’s not a Scottish Fold :) The ears on a Scottish Fold fold by 21 days old and she said they dropped down “several years later”. Besides having Scottish Folds for 26 years, I also do SF rescue and often get called about cats that are SF only to find out it, at some point, he/she had ear mites and that can destroy the cartilage enough to make it look like a SF. Gracie was a straight-eared SF so her ears were “normal” and not folded. I’ve often been glad that of all the SFs we’ve had, both straight and folded-ear, that none of the FE ones were diabetic although I did occasionally test them to be sure their BG was normal.

What I can say is that for any cat whose ears fold like this, it might be easier to poke the inside of their ear still along the same place as you would poke the outside.

Susan....welcome and I would also suggest you check out egg yolk powder for the constipation. It’s great for motility. In fact, one of the best remedies for constipation is a small bit of raw egg yolk. Even though my cats have never been constipated, they get the egg yolk powder every day because it has so many other benefits.
 
I love Scottish Folds and knew one who was a library cat once. Very mellow. I wish all libraries had cats. The breed I think is cruel is the Munchkin with the short legs. They have a hard time running and jumping.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
I'm going to give you some reading to do and ask some questions.



A lot of people use Miralax.
Your best guide to feline constipation is
https://felineconstipation.org/


Here are some links that can help you look for a new vet.


You can save yourself a lot of money and get a better picture of how a dose affects your cat by home testing. Home testing is how to keep your cat safe and out of danger.

Question: What country to do you live in? We can give you recommendations for the best meters for cats. (The pet meters take crazy expensive strips.)



There are cats who do need a high dose but the majority certainly do not. It is recommended that dosing increases be no more than 0.25 units so that you do not go right past the best dose.
By home testing, you can find out how the current 2.75 unit dose is working for your cat.

Please read and print out the following guides for what to do in a hypoglycemic situation.
Food and testing ears/paw pads in my next post.
My apologies for the information overload. Feline diabetes is a steep learning curve but will become second nature very quickly. We can steer you to the learning materials, explain them, help you with dosing and diet, and answer any questions you may have.
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JanetNJ said:
626dd453-b50e-4ee9-9dce-86d306043c85-44cfa233-7e95-44ef-af07-a4872de958e0-v1.png

Here's a link to pumpkin baby food https://www.amazon.com/Gerber-Foods-Pumpkin-Tubs-Count/dp/B01BCN67TG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=pumpkin baby food&qid=1602014129&sr=8-3

and apparently weruva has pouches now https://www.amazon.com/Weruva-Pumpkin-Patch-Supplement-1-05Oz/dp/B00NMPY8YO/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=pumpkin baby food&qid=1602014129&sr=8-4
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I had to take pumpkin today to my original vet just to get his glucose readings. He was very high 550! But I did let them know about their sugar syrup. That was after they told me to increase him from three points to four points. I’m never going back there. I had an emergency with pumpkin vomiting and and being constipated. I called them out on that stool softener and they were embarrassed. They told me to use MiraLAX. Well I’m three steps ahead of them I already have been. I just want to do right by my pumpkin.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Well......he’s not a Scottish Fold :) The ears on a Scottish Fold fold by 21 days old and she said they dropped down “several years later”. Besides having Scottish Folds for 26 years, I also do SF rescue and often get called about cats that are SF only to find out it, at some point, he/she had ear mites and that can destroy the cartilage enough to make it look like a SF. Gracie was a straight-eared SF so her ears were “normal” and not folded. I’ve often been glad that of all the SFs we’ve had, both straight and folded-ear, that none of the FE ones were diabetic although I did occasionally test them to be sure their BG was normal.

What I can say is that for any cat whose ears fold like this, it might be easier to poke the inside of their ear still along the same place as you would poke the outside.

Susan....welcome and I would also suggest you check out egg yolk powder for the constipation. It’s great for motility. In fact, one of the best remedies for constipation is a small bit of raw egg yolk. Even though my cats have never been constipated, they get the egg yolk powder every day because it has so many other benefits.
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Egg yolk powder, huh? That’s a new one. I will definitely see if I can find some. Right now I’m gonna be using the MiraLAX. My other cat seems to be constipated as well. Pretty obvious when you don’t see any poop in the litter boxes. My other cat is not diabetic.
 
I’m wondering what I should do. The vet says to increase his insulin to four points. That’s a full point above where he was. In fact I was giving him 2.75 because a friend of mine has been helping me. She loves to read about the stuff and she researches researches and she’s really help me a lot. Far more than my vet ever did! But now? He’s got 550 glucose reading and they tell me to raise him a full point. I know this is wrong.
It’s a pattern with this vet. They raise pumpkin a full point every time I bring him there. I know that’s wrong. He has also lost more than half a pound. That’s a lot of weight for a kid his size. I don’t trust them. I don’t even want to ask them questions because I don’t trust them.
 
Susan Fentz said:
I’m wondering what I should do. The vet says to increase his insulin to four points. That’s a full point above where he was. In fact I was giving him 2.75 because a friend of mine has been helping me. She loves to read about the stuff and she researches researches and she’s really help me a lot. Far more than my vet ever did! But now? He’s got 550 glucose reading and they tell me to raise him a full point. I know this is wrong.
It’s a pattern with this vet. They raise pumpkin a full point every time I bring him there. I know that’s wrong.
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You're right. At most, I would only raise it by .5 otherwise he'll have a bad bounce. We recommend increases of .25 which would take you to an even 3 units. Also, could you finish your signature to let us know which insulin you're using? I don't want to give you wrong info.
@Critter Mom; @jt and trouble (GA)
 
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Hi Susan, and welcome. I don't see a spreadsheet set up, which is critical in order to be able to give you dose advice. Without it, we are flying blind, and no own should be giving advice without seeing it. Have you been testing at home? Do you have at least the last last few weeks of data?

There are folks here who can help you get the SS set up if you need help with that.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Susan. :)


You might be able to get some from Amazon. Psyllium husk is another possible fibre source.

Tip: If you do try psyllium, I suggest you start with only a tiny amount and work up if you need to - a little psyllium can go a very long way.

Needless to say, be sure to discuss any proposed supplementary treatments with a vet first.


Mogs
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The one I have right now really stinks. I know she stinks and I’m searching for another one but they have so many rules now. I’ve been to three vets Recently. It’s curb service. You only speak to them on the phone. It’s not the same as when you sit down with your vet you discuss things. But even so, I don’t think this vet knows what she is doing.
 
Susan Fentz said:
I had to take pumpkin today to my original vet just to get his glucose readings. He was very high 550! But I did let them know about their sugar syrup. That was after they told me to increase him from three points to four points. I’m never going back there. I had an emergency with pumpkin vomiting and and being constipated. I called them out on that stool softener and they were embarrassed. They told me to use MiraLAX. Well I’m three steps ahead of them I already have been. I just want to do right by my pumpkin.
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Someone else suggested this site. That was what alerted me to my vet giving my diabetic cat a sugar-based substance for stool softening. That site is awesome. I read all about it. I knew not to give him any. I learned about MiraLAX and then when I went there today to get my glucose reading, I told them when I picked pumpkin up. I said you prescribe something that’s sugar-based for stool softening. They were telling me how his numbers were high. Well I did give him one dose, but I should’ve had given him three if I followed their instructions. No the feline constipation.org site was very very helpful to me. Thank you!
Anyway, I did tell my vet. They were embarrassed. I told him you gave me something that is got a lot of sugar in it. They put me on hold and came back. We will credit you for that medicine. Go get some MiraLAX from your drugstore etc. etc. etc. they prescribe something that has a lot of sugar in it for a diabetic cat. . It was felineconstipation.org that helped me realize this.
You all have already helped me.
 
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Susan Fentz said:
The one I have right now really stinks. I know she stinks and I’m searching for another one but they have so many rules now. I’ve been to three vets Recently. It’s curb service. You only speak to them on the phone. It’s not the same as when you sit down with your vet you discuss things. But even so, I don’t think this vet knows what she is doing.
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Ask them straight out how much do they know about cats and feline diabetes.
 
Apologies if I was a bit abrupt earlier, I was in the process of getting my own cat his insulin and food, and was running late for dinner plans out. Perhaps for additional clarification, dose adjustments are usually done by 0.25u at a time, although there are circumstances when we might consider increasing by 0.5u. All of this is based on test data, we need to be able to assess how our own kitty is responding to insulin. I seem to post this a lot lately, but boy it is really is important! The way my cat responds to insulin and how carb sensitive he is will be completely different than how your cat responds to insulin and carbs.
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
Once you get a feel for these basic elements, things will become much easier, IMHO.

So going back to doses. The primary reason increasing by 1u isn't a good idea, or if you increase too quickly, is that you may end up going past the right dose. It is better to do smaller increments, and hold the dose for long enough to see how your kitty is responding, then re-evaluate based on what the data is telling you. Safety is very important too, each of the methods we follow here (although there are others out there in the universe), have safety measures built in place if they are followed correctly.

Again, my apologies if I came across as abrupt, that wasn't my intention. Please continue to post and ask questions.

And perhaps start another new post tomorrow, since this one has gotten a wee bit long now :)
 
Susan Fentz said:
Egg yolk powder, huh? That’s a new one. I will definitely see if I can find some. Right now I’m gonna be using the MiraLAX. My other cat seems to be constipated as well. Pretty obvious when you don’t see any poop in the litter boxes. My other cat is not diabetic.
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If you’ll look back in my post #56 above, you will see “egg yolk powder” in dark blue. Click on that and it has the link to where I buy mine which is very high quality and a reasonable price. Anytime you see blue like that in a sentence on this board, it means there’s a link there for you.
 
ok a little info over load but its important...
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    • Add any other text, such as
    • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)

    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Hope this helps you. It really will serve you in the future.;)
jeanne
 
Hi Susan,

I've put together some signature information for you. If you copy the line below to the clipboard, you can then paste it into your signature:


Susan & Pumpkin (M, 11) | Dx: Feb 2020 | Lantus | Meter: ??? | Food: FF Classic Paté | Dosing: TBA | Ears folded, constip'n issues, underweight | Spreadsheet (pending)


You can then replace the ???s with the brand of meter you're using [EDIT: and the type of food Pumpkin's eating. (I know from your posts above that he's eating Fancy Feast but I thought it best to leave the ???s in place so that you could confirm he's on the FF low carb patés.) ]

I've also included a placeholder ready for when Pumpkin's spreadsheet gets up and running. (We can help you with this. :) )

Once you've added the info, you can click 'Save Changes' to update your details.


Mogs
.
 
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Susan,

I've put together some signature information for you. If you copy the line below to the clipboard, you can then paste it into your signature:


Susan & Pumpkin (M, 11) | Dx: Feb 2020 | Lantus | Meter: ??? | Food: ??? | Dosing: TBA | Ears folded, constip'n issues, underweight | Spreadsheet (pending)


You can then replace the ???s with the brand of meter you're using and the type of food Pumpkin's eating. (I know from your posts above that he's eating Fancy Feast but I thought it best to leave the ???s in place so that you could confirm he's on the FF low carb patés.)

I've also included a placeholder ready for when Pumpkin's spreadsheet gets up and running. (We can help you with this. :) )

Once you've added the info, you can click 'Save Changes' to update your details.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
Pumpkin it’s fancy feast classic pate. Mostly I give him chicken. He gets three cans a day. He’s lost half a pound in the past month.
 
I really messed up. Pumpkin was supposed to get four units of Lantus. Which I knew was way too high. So I increased his dosage from three points to 3 1/4. But this morning I woke up and I gave him his insulin way too soon, four hours too soon.
It’s no excuse but I had a feral cat I had to bring in to get spayed. Distractions are not good. So I panicked. I rubbed some honey on his gums.
It’s been three hours now. I don’t see any signs of hypoglycemia but I was ready to take him to emergency. I do not know how to take his glucose levels. The crappy vet I was going to is closed on Thursdays. My friend who is helping me is not answering. I’m just a wreck and I’m so mad at myself.
 
Susan Fentz said:
I really messed up. Pumpkin was supposed to get four units of Lantus. Which I knew was way too high. So I increased his dosage from three points to 3 1/4. But this morning I woke up and I gave him his insulin way too soon, four hours too soon.
It’s no excuse but I had a feral cat I had to bring in to get spayed. Distractions are not good. So I panicked. I rubbed some honey on his gums.
It’s been three hours now. I don’t see any signs of hypoglycemia but I was ready to take him to emergency. I do not know how to take his glucose levels. The crappy vet I was going to is closed on Thursdays. My friend who is helping me is not answering. I’m just a wreck and I’m so mad at myself.
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Sometimes I think I do him a great injustice being his health advocate.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
If you’ll look back in my post #56 above, you will see “egg yolk powder” in dark blue. Click on that and it has the link to where I buy mine which is very high quality and a reasonable price. Anytime you see blue like that in a sentence on this board, it means there’s a link there for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I do know what link looks like. The feline constipation.org site was very very helpful to me.
 
Hmmm.... I think a quick trip to an ER vet might be the best thing to do here. You have no idea where his levels are. Shooting that large a dose four hours early could be dangerous. A hypo is not something you'd want to manage at home without the ability to test.

How far away is your ER vet?
 
Adding to my last question: if the ER vet is far away, that would change the calculation some. If there's someone to drive with you and rub honey on his gums in the worst case scenario where he started showing symptoms on the ride, that would be OK.

Three hours in is about where the most recent shot would be starting to take effect, possibly overlapping with the last shot (plus the large Lantus depot).

Not trying to be alarmist-- often these situation are total non-events! I'm just concerned because you aren't able to test yet, so we have no idea what's going on with sweet Pumpkin right now.
 
Susan Fentz said:
I keep screwing up. He keeps getting into my other kids food and today I gave him too much insulin. I love pumpkin. I just feel like I’m doing a great injustice. I must not be smart enough to do this correctly.
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Don't beat yourself up about this! It's an extremely stressful situation, especially when you are starting out. We've all done things like this-- lots of stories on the board of people waking up to give the AM shot, going back to bed, then waking up an hour later and giving another shot!!!! Or having two diabetic cats and giving the low-dose cat the high-dose cat's insulin. These things happen, especially when you have a lot of different stressors at the same time.

:bighug: :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
Susan Fentz said:
Pumpkin it’s fancy feast classic pate. Mostly I give him chicken. He gets three cans a day. He’s lost half a pound in the past month.
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If he's underweight.. feed him as much as he is willing to eat. :) How much insulin did you give? How much was he supposed to get?
 
Susan Fentz said:
Sometimes I think I do him a great injustice being his health advocate.
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You found a friend to help you. You found FDMB. You addressed the constipation Rx with the vets. I'd say you're doing quite well in the advocacy stakes, Susan.

When we all started out we knew zero about feline diabetes (and most of us probably knew zero about diabetes in humans, other than that too many carbs are a problem and insulin is involved somewhere along the line).

When we start out, we don't even know which questions we need to ask a vet. For example, I would never have know to ask about Lantus insulin for my Saoirse's diabetes or ondansetron for her pancreatitis were it not for people here sharing their knowledge and experience. If not for that, I'd never have heard about these treatments so I'd never have known to ask my vet about them.

As you learn more from the members here and at other reputable cat health sites, your advocacy skills will keep getting better and better. :)

(BTW, I've updated the suggested signature line in my earlier post with the food info, ready for you to copy/paste.)


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Susan,

I've put together some signature information for you. If you copy the line below to the clipboard, you can then paste it into your signature:


Susan & Pumpkin (M, 11) | Dx: Feb 2020 | Lantus | Meter: ??? | Food: FF Classic Paté | Dosing: TBA | Ears folded, constip'n issues, underweight | Spreadsheet (pending)


You can then replace the ???s with the brand of meter you're using [EDIT: and the type of food Pumpkin's eating. (I know from your posts above that he's eating Fancy Feast but I thought it best to leave the ???s in place so that you could confirm he's on the FF low carb patés.) ]

I've also included a placeholder ready for when Pumpkin's spreadsheet gets up and running. (We can help you with this. :) )

Once you've added the info, you can click 'Save Changes' to update your details.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
I do not have a meter. I have to bring my cat to the vet has his glucose checked.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
How is Pumpkin doing?
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Thank you for asking. I have an appointment with a different vet tomorrow. They specialize in only cats. He’s OK. He’s still constipated though.
I really wish I knew how to check his glucose myself but see with his ears, I need to learn how to do it with his paw. With the Covid thing going on right now, no vet lets me in their office. Every vet only offers curbside service. I just don’t feel comfortable. I do feel like I’m taking a step in the right direction by switching vets though. My vet was horrible.
 
How to test using paw pads:

A bigger lancet might also help. Look for 26 or 28 gauge lancets. (The smaller the number, the bigger the the lancet.)

Since Pumpkin is ravenous, giving Pumpkin a treat each time you test will help him associate being tested with a treat. You can use small amounts of his wet food. Some people give freeze-dried treats. No carbs.
 
There is one other option you might look into, the Freestyle Libre. It's a patch that is glued onto the skin (with I think some tiny probes?), and then BG can be read any time you want with a separate reader (no pokes necessary).

Pros: incredibly convenient when it works! And if the paw pad thing doesn't work, may be the only realistic option for you guys

Cons: expensive and not always reliable. Under ideal circumstances, one patch is supposed to last 10-14 days (and must be put on by a vet each time), but there are special challenges with cats as you can imagine. It's not uncommon for cats to figure out how to tear the patches off within hours or a couple days of application. And then sometimes, even if they stay on, they don't work well for mysterious reasons.

So, it's a mixed bag. When they work, they're fantastic, but we've heard a lot of stories of frustration too. Still, might be worth asking your vet and getting a price estimate (you have to buy the reader which I think is something like $65, and then the patches and their application are an ongoing cost, not sure about that price).

I just hope the paw pad testing works for you. Crossing fingers that Pumpkin turns out to be one of those cats who is OK with it!
 
Critter Mom said:
OK, Susan. Updated signature line below:


Susan & Pumpkin (M, 11) | Dx: Feb 2020 | Lantus | Not home testing yet | Food: FF Classic Paté | Dosing: TBA | Ears folded, constip'n issues, underweight | Spreadsheet (pending)



Mogs
.
Click to expand...
Critter Mom said:
OK, Susan. Updated signature line below:


Susan & Pumpkin (M, 11) | Dx: Feb 2020 | Lantus | Not home testing yet | Food: FF Classic Paté | Dosing: TBA | Ears folded, constip'n issues, underweight | Spreadsheet (pending)



Mogs
.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I thought I did that in my profile. I’m sorry. I’m not usually a techno dope.
jt and trouble (GA) said:
I'll try to find a video of testing a paw. I cant tonight have dinner to contend with but will do in the morning.
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Thank you. I don't have what I need now. He goes to the vet - his new vet - in the early morning.
 
Susan Fentz said:
I don't have what I need now.
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Walmart shopping list for you.

Relion Prime Meter & box of 100 strips.
Relion Lancets 1 box of 100 gauge 26 or 28.
Lancing device.
Pack of cosmetic rounds/ cotton balls to hold behind the ear when you getting blood sample from the ear.
Neosporin Ointment (not than cream) with Pain Relief.

Karo or honey.
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers for Hypo Kit.

and ice cream or chocolate of choice for you.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Hmmm.... I think a quick trip to an ER vet might be the best thing to do here. You have no idea where his levels are. Shooting that large a dose four hours early could be dangerous. A hypo is not something you'd want to manage at home without the ability to test.

How far away is your ER vet?
Click to expand...
I normally would have. I trapped a feral female and had to bring her in.
I had an appointment. It wasn't far so I knew I'd be back quickly. My
regular vet is closed on Thursday.
Anyway, Pumpkins levels were checked yesterday and they were high - 550
and 357 when they finished their version of a glucose curve. (2 numbers)
(They only check it twice).
They raised his insulin a full point, but I knew that was too much. I gave him
a 1/4 of a point more. (This vet had a pattern of raising Pumpkin's dose
a full point every glucose curve).
I was blessed today. I rubbed some honey on Pumpkin's gum.
He has an appointment with a new vet first thing in the morning.
They are an all cats hospital. They treat a lot of diabetic cats.
I watched him closely all day.
Hoping for the best tomorrow.
Thanks so much for your advice and concern.
 
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Red & Rover (GA) said:
Walmart shopping list for you.

Relion Prime Meter & box of 100 strips.
Relion Lancets 1 box of 100 gauge 26 or 28.
Lancing device.
Pack of cosmetic rounds/ cotton balls to hold behind the ear when you getting blood sample from the ear.
Neosporin Ointment (not than cream) with Pain Relief.

Karo or honey.
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers for Hypo Kit.

and ice cream or chocolate of choice for you.
Click to expand...

I do have honey and Neosporin. I've read about that brand
of lancets and meter. Walmart sells all that?
Is that behind the pharmacy counter?
Do you know if they sell syringes too?
I was getting them from Publix but they ran
out of my type. They don't seem to know what to
reorder.

Thanks for the list and the tip!
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
How to test using paw pads:

A bigger lancet might also help. Look for 26 or 28 gauge lancets. (The smaller the number, the bigger the the lancet.)

Since Pumpkin is ravenous, giving Pumpkin a treat each time you test will help him associate being tested with a treat. You can use small amounts of his wet food. Some people give freeze-dried treats. No carbs.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips. Everyone has been so helpful.
 
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