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Susan Gray
She's had blood work several times in the last year because of her IBD. The latest was this past Monday when she was diagnosed with diabetes. The potassium is the Na/K, correct? It was in the normal range, 34.
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Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
OK Thank you for the information. We are all brainstorming right now. Did you view the video on neuropathy that Mom of two felines posted? Is this how Mini is walking?
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Susan Gray
I know she hasn't gotten into anything. She has been a little weak in her hind legs off and on, but I attributed it to the amount of weight she has lost due to the IBD. But the leg twitching or spasms and the walking more flat footed and having trouble walking has gotten progressively worse since Monday.
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Susan Gray
I haven't yet. I've had to carry her to the litter box a couple of times in between posts.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
How often is Mini getting B12 shots from the vet? The B12 injections should help with the neuropathy as well as IBD but it can take quite awhile to show results.
ETA I don't know if the dose given for IBD is the same dose as what would be given for neuropathy??
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Susan Gray
She was walking like the video, but is pretty much just dragging her legs now, if she can even get herself up. She's really not doing that now.
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Susan Gray
I give her .5 ml once a week. The vet had me increase that from .2 about 2 months ago, because her IBD was still so bad, and she had become anemic from taking chlorambucil (generic Leukeran).
Mum of two felines
Member Since 2015
How long has she been walking like that?
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
OK I looked up what Tuxie was getting for his neuropathy and it was .5ml once a week for 6 weeks then monthly after. I started using the Methylcobalamin oral daily about 3 months afterwards. If you get a chance look at the video on neuropathy. It was taken of a kitty with severe neuropathy and if I remember correctly it took about 6 months to get him back to normal. B12 supplementation and good glucose control are both needed to reverse the condition.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
"
In diabetic neuropathy, nerves in the legs are progressively damaged, leading to tingliness, pain, numbness, and weakness or paralysis. In cats, this often shows first as weak hind legs, progressing until the cat cannot stand on his toes as usual, and walks on his hocks (heels) or sits down more often. This condition is known as plantigrade stance or posture. This article contains a photo of the posture[1].
Jumping becomes difficult, then impossible. Eventually the cats' legs seem to slip out from under them and they become unable to walk. These symptoms are the result of damage to the motor and sensory nerves, but they can usually be reversed with better control of blood sugar and certain dietary supplements.
The symptoms are less common in dogs, but do occur. Many dogs have hind leg weakness when they are first diagnosed with diabetes. This is sometimes the symptom which brings the pet to the vet's office. It's often falsely attributed to "getting older" by the caregiver. What is also known as "diabetic neuropathy"[2] most often affects both rear legs and will progress symmetrically. With treatment and regulation, most dogs also have reversal of neuropathy.
This 1983 JAVMA abstract[3]indicates that both the neuropathy and low blood pressure returned to normal following the control of the diabetes with insulin."
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy
In diabetic neuropathy, nerves in the legs are progressively damaged, leading to tingliness, pain, numbness, and weakness or paralysis. In cats, this often shows first as weak hind legs, progressing until the cat cannot stand on his toes as usual, and walks on his hocks (heels) or sits down more often. This condition is known as plantigrade stance or posture. This article contains a photo of the posture[1].
Jumping becomes difficult, then impossible. Eventually the cats' legs seem to slip out from under them and they become unable to walk. These symptoms are the result of damage to the motor and sensory nerves, but they can usually be reversed with better control of blood sugar and certain dietary supplements.
The symptoms are less common in dogs, but do occur. Many dogs have hind leg weakness when they are first diagnosed with diabetes. This is sometimes the symptom which brings the pet to the vet's office. It's often falsely attributed to "getting older" by the caregiver. What is also known as "diabetic neuropathy"[2] most often affects both rear legs and will progress symmetrically. With treatment and regulation, most dogs also have reversal of neuropathy.
This 1983 JAVMA abstract[3]indicates that both the neuropathy and low blood pressure returned to normal following the control of the diabetes with insulin."
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy
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Susan Gray
I saw that. And oh my, If it takes that long for her she won't make it. I'm carrying her to the litter box and everywhere else right now.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
I took a look at the ingredients on the B12 supplement you have. It has mannitol, which is an artificial sweetner, but is considered safe for diabetics. You have 5000mcg ( 5 grams) per tablet(capsule) You could try adding this to the food daily and seeing if the extra B12 helps as well.
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Susan Gray
Yes that's why she was getting the injections. But now I think she needs the methylcobalamin worse.
Mum of two felines
Member Since 2015
But, remember once her BG is under control and the B12 starts she'll gain some mobility.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
Do you have more data on what the glucose numbers have been like since diagnosis and starting insulin. Getting the glucose levels under control is very important for both the diabetes and the neuropathy,
ETA If you have numbers such as before shot and at X number of hours after shot for any period of time that could be helpful. Vetsulin does not last have a long enough duration in many kitties and a different insulin may be more helpful
ETA If you have numbers such as before shot and at X number of hours after shot for any period of time that could be helpful. Vetsulin does not last have a long enough duration in many kitties and a different insulin may be more helpful
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Susan Gray
Thanks. I knew it was a sweetener which is why, along with the cherry flavoring, I was afraid to use it yet. I think I will try it while I wait for the other to arrive. I will order it today.
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Susan Gray
Just diagnosed 5 days ago, so no I don't have a whole lot of data. I'm injecting 2×/day, so would this particular insulin still maybe not last long enough?
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Susan Gray
I just worry in the meantime, both my husband and I work 2 jobs. And if I would have to take her to the vet everyday for them to watch her, the stress of that would send her into a major IBD flare (she gets horrible diarrhea), and we have that under control at the moment.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
It is very hard to say how well the insulin is working for Mini. Home testing will give you a lot better insight into that than tests at the vets. Vetsulin is a faster acting, harsher insulin than some of the long acting insulins. This means that it can act fairly quickly and bring the glucose numbers down a fair bit (depending on the kitty) in the first 2-4 hours. Sometimes if the numbers drop too much or too quickly the glucose reading can "bounce" up higher since the body's natural mechanisms see this as a "problem". This means the numbers may be higher again later in the cycle (the time between shots). By testing before injections and then again 2 or 3 hours later, it gives a good idea if the insulin is working and how fast/well it is working. Testing is SO SO important
Mum of two felines
Member Since 2015
Ok, are you able to breathe easier? It would help tremendously if you would go up to your user name click on signature and add Mini's name, when she was diagnosed with IBD, diabetic, neuropathy, her lab number for the NaK, what her dose is for injectable B12 her, the Vetsulin, and her dose, what she eats and how much. And what you will be giving her for the neuropathy.That way the members can see at a glance the info you have.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
As I was saying in my post above this, home testing can let you know what is happening with the insulin AND save the stress and cost of taking her to the vet for tests.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Please take your cat to the vet before they close!
As much as we would like to help, we cannot diagnose over the internet. Your vet will have a better chance of helping Mini right now.
Please update when you get back. We worry...
Mum of two felines
Member Since 2015
But, she tested at 154 at +12 and you didn't give an injection because she wasn't eating enough, right?
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
No...that's a test for the ratio of salt to potassium
The test for potassium should be listed under "Potassium" and normal is 3.4-5.6 mEq/L
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Susan Gray
Oh duh, yes I knew that, I did not sleep last night with Mini being the way she is. My brain has ceased to function. Hers was 4.8.
Squalliesmom
Member Since 2015
How is Mini doing now? Did you contact your vet?
Marlena
Member Since 2015
Re: Vit B12 (cobalamin)
There are three forms of this vitamin:
cyanocobalamin which is a synthetic form and not very well absorbed and used by the body
hydroxocobalamin
methylcobalamin.
As far as I know (at least in the UK) the form used for injection is hydroxocobalamin (I work in medical field) and good quality oral supplement would be made of methylcobalamin.
I use Doctor's Best Fully Active B12 capsules.
If your cat is receiving an injectable form of cobalamin it should be hydroxy form (but it would be advisible to check with the vet) and it's very good, if you do not wish to get your cat to the vet for injections you could use methylcobalamin capsules 1500 mcg - 2 a day in food.
The injections at the vet might be very expensive as my sister in the US found out (Elizabeth and Gus) but after some talking to the vet she managed to get a prescription and buy it much cheaper. If you would like more details you could contact her via this forum.
Please don't give up on your cat as there is a chance that you can give her more good years with you and this forum is full of most wonderful people who will help and guide you through.
Good luck and I hope you take that chance.
Best regards, love and hugs.
Marlena
There are three forms of this vitamin:
cyanocobalamin which is a synthetic form and not very well absorbed and used by the body
hydroxocobalamin
methylcobalamin.
As far as I know (at least in the UK) the form used for injection is hydroxocobalamin (I work in medical field) and good quality oral supplement would be made of methylcobalamin.
I use Doctor's Best Fully Active B12 capsules.
If your cat is receiving an injectable form of cobalamin it should be hydroxy form (but it would be advisible to check with the vet) and it's very good, if you do not wish to get your cat to the vet for injections you could use methylcobalamin capsules 1500 mcg - 2 a day in food.
The injections at the vet might be very expensive as my sister in the US found out (Elizabeth and Gus) but after some talking to the vet she managed to get a prescription and buy it much cheaper. If you would like more details you could contact her via this forum.
Please don't give up on your cat as there is a chance that you can give her more good years with you and this forum is full of most wonderful people who will help and guide you through.
Good luck and I hope you take that chance.
Best regards, love and hugs.
Marlena
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Susan Gray
Oh I understand you don't diagnose. My vet wants to see how she does with the insulin and B12 over the weekend. They didn't seem very optimistic about her outcome. I just knew input from people who deal with this everyday would be helpful. I was given this site by someone on IBDKitties, and their experience with IBD has helped Mini considerably.
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Susan Gray
She has eaten a bit more. Still not up moving around. The vet wants to see how she does over the weekend with all her meds and injections. Not very optimistic, however.
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Susan Gray
Thanks. I do my own B12 injections at home. It wasn't very expensive, as they sold me a bottle of it and I buy the syringes. The problem with the injectable form is it won't help with the neuropathy, so I need to switch to the methylcobalamin.
Olive & Paula
Member Since 2015
Susan, sorry you are having such a time right now. We understand that you want Mini better now. We have all been in that place. It does take time, it's not an overnight fix. Once blood sugar starts to get better so does the neuropathy. The methylcobalamin will also take some time to show improvement. I use Zobaline, Smokey wasn't as bad as the video but he did fall over twice when trying to stand. I started giving it twice a day and saw small improvement in a few weeks. I now give once a day. He is strong, blood sugar so much better but still not regulated, long term diabetic, currently has pancreatitis, did I mention he turns 18 this month.
If you and your husband can manage and willing, it is so worth what you are going through right at this time. And yes you will get angry, pissed off, tired and want to give up. Then you have a day where Mini is curled up next to you purring away, an easy day of walking, and blood sugar better even if it's just for a day, shows interest in a toy and for now it will be rare but you will be so excited. You know you will keep doing what it takes.
If you and your husband can manage and willing, it is so worth what you are going through right at this time. And yes you will get angry, pissed off, tired and want to give up. Then you have a day where Mini is curled up next to you purring away, an easy day of walking, and blood sugar better even if it's just for a day, shows interest in a toy and for now it will be rare but you will be so excited. You know you will keep doing what it takes.
Olive & Paula
Member Since 2015
Others please weigh in, I think you can do both.
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Susan Gray
I know it will take time. I'm more than willing, I'm just worried about being able to help her since she can't move around. I don't know what we'll do when we're both at work if she can't get moving. We have already put in tons of time trying to get her IBD under control. She is a fighter! Thanks for your and everyone else's kind words!
For some reason, I didn't get notified of the tag but saw Susan in the IBD FB group.
Susan...with all this additional info, I agree with Jill. I think she needs to see a vet and if your vet won't see her, I'd go to an ER. If she were my kitty, I wouldn't wait out the weekend like this if the vet could answer some questions and help determine what the issue really is. She has so much going on that can interrelate and as Jill said, we are not vets here.
Please let us know how she is.
Susan...with all this additional info, I agree with Jill. I think she needs to see a vet and if your vet won't see her, I'd go to an ER. If she were my kitty, I wouldn't wait out the weekend like this if the vet could answer some questions and help determine what the issue really is. She has so much going on that can interrelate and as Jill said, we are not vets here.
Please let us know how she is.
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Susan Gray
My vet saw her, but did want to wait and see her again Monday. The closest ER vet is 45 minutes away, and I simply can't afford to go there today. I had a cat diagnosed and then died from cancer last week. From all of his testing, and now Mini's testing and supplies this week I have no more money. I hope the things I'm doing will help her in the next 2 days.
I'm so very sorry about your kitty. I understand this has to be so very hard emotionally, too.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hi Susan,
I'm sorry to hear that Mini isn't feeling very well. I've nothing to add to what others have posted but I am saying prayers and sending healing thoughts for Mini - and some
for you. I really feel for you.
Mogs
.
I'm sorry to hear that Mini isn't feeling very well. I've nothing to add to what others have posted but I am saying prayers and sending healing thoughts for Mini - and some
for you. I really feel for you.Mogs
.
jayla-n-Drevon
Member Since 2015
Jeanne & Dottie
Member Since 2016
Oh wow, you've been hit so hard, all at once!
I sure hope everything works out for the best.
I sure hope everything works out for the best.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
How is Mini doing today? Sending prayers and hugs
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Susan Gray
She's eating and purring, just not able to move. The spasms in her legs were better this morning, but I just got home from work and they've gotten to be like yesterday.How is Mini doing today? Sending prayers and hugs
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
Did you start giving the B12 supplement? It may or may not help right now, but since you can't get to see the vet right away it can't hurt. Is her breathing still seem heavier than normal?
ETA Have you been able to check Mini's glucose levels today?
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Susan Gray
Breathing is about normal for her today (she has asthma too), her glucose was 190 at 8:30 this morning. Since the methylcobalamin I found had the flavoring I decided to just go ahead with her regular B12 injection that is due to be given this evening.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
The glucose level is not too bad. It would be really helpful if you could set up a spreadsheet...or have someone here help you set one up. You can record the preshot numbers, the dosing and tests done in between shots. This will give a much clearer picture of how well Mini is responding to the insulin and the dose.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
Here are the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet. If you are as techie-less as me you may need someone to help: (I did 
)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
)http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
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Susan Gray
Here are the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet. If you are as techie-less as me you may need someone to help: (I did
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
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Susan Gray
Thanks I will try to get that done soon. I work at both of my jobs tomorrow and have too much to catch up on at home tonight. I appreciate the help.Here are the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet. If you are as techie-less as me you may need someone to help: (I did
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Sending more prayers and healing vibes for Mini and some s for you.
Mogs
.
s for you.Mogs
.
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