Need YOUR help please!

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Ketones may occurr when 1) insulin is too low (can't use carbs), and/or, 2) infection is present, and/or 3) carbs are not available so fat is used for calories.

Trace levels are a warning sign that the situation is deteriorating; more than a trace is a medical emergency.

A trace with other issues present can warrant a vet visit, too - ex, not eating, blood in urine, vomiting, diarrhea, painful response if abdomen gently pressed (pancreatitis, inflammatory bowel disease, liver inflammation, etc) - and so on.
 
Hi Victoriamamie!

I am fairly new to this too and found a few things confusing at first, but this group is awesome isn't it???

I am also in Canada, and right now I feed our boy Buca Fancy Feast pate, or whiskas pate in those resealable containers (can buy it by the case at petsmart and it's much cheaper)... for treats he gets the freeze dried ones, or the grain free Lion's something (can't remember the name! but it's called lickin chicken lol) Buca is doing really well on those. :)

Also, did you get a glucometer for home testing? You can find lots of deals online if you google it. Go to your pharmacy and see what is available and then search for deals for those brands. Most will offer you a free glucometer if you purchase the strips. I got an AccuChek aviva for free but the strips are a little expensive - $79-85 for 100 of them.

I don't test for ketones but do BG test in the morning before I give him food, and then I take food away in the evening a couple of hours before his shot and test him then (you don't want food in his system affecting the numbers you are testing pre-shot). Also thoughout the day as I have time so that I can keep track of his numbers.

I also went from Caninsulin to a gentler insulin similar to levemir (Lantus) and it has worked out much better for us! My vet didn't like the idea of us going off of Caninsulin so basically told me she would refer me to someone else. I was in the dark with dosing and learning about how to manage this but we're not alone when we're in this group!

There are really awesome videos on youtube on how to prick the ear and test. For the first little bit I had to wrap Buca in a blanket and sit on my knees over him to hold him but now he actually purrs through it!! You'll get so good at it, he won't even flinch ;)

Keep the board posted on how things are going! Good luck! :)
 
Victoria-

That is awesome! Sneakers always had between a negative and a trace until her insulin was high enough to knock them out. I would just check every other day while the numbers are high, once the numbers start dropping as long as your cat is eating and not showing signs of illness/infection once a week should be enough.

Just remember that ketones come on fast and can go from trace to moderate to high within a day.
 
Hi, Victoria,

While you are switiching insulins, I suggest to test for ketones as much as possible whether the BG reading is high or not, just to be safe. At the levels of BG your cat is showing, I would want to see a test at every pee possible, and you will miss some just because you have to go somewhere or you can't catch her peeing fast enough. She might have a low enough BG reading at one test that you don't test for ketones and then shoot up high before her next pee, but you won't know that because you didn't BG test in between. My cat went from 138 to 405 in just two hours yesterday.

Take three sticks to the litter box with you if you are using the puddle dip method. If I saw trace amounts, I would immediately put another stick in the urine to see if that was a bad stick. Then, a third if I got a negative on the second test.

Some people take their cats in when they see trace amounts only if there are also other signs of ketoacidosis. If she's acting normal, you could wait for the next pee, and test again when you see trace, but it is a risk. I personally, would panic, and take the cat in if the second stick showed trace amounts, too.

I understand that even with treatment a number of cats die from ketoacidosis. Also, it sounds like a horrible way to die. So, I think the general consensus is that catching it early is your best chance of saving your cat. However, I'm known as a "risk-adverse" person, and I hate to take chances. As you get more comfortable with caring for a diabetic cat, you may mellow a bit, and as long as you can stay with your cat, she's eating, and acting normal you might feel okay with waiting for that second pee.

Have a good day,
 
Sorry its taken me a bit to reply, I didnt realize the page went to second, derr!

As her SS shows, with Levemir her sugars are getting better, and thats making mama a happy woman! It so cute too because shes starting to get into a routine. About 8 in the morning and 7 at night she'll come searching for me meowing to let me know its time. She sits there impatiently as I get her food read, almost saying "hurry up mom!" and then she runs to where I normally place her food, checking to see if I'm following. Ugh, she's just a cutie!

This ketone thing is stressing me out though. It seems worse than the diabetes itself. I dont want my baby dying or in pain, but I cant catch her every time she pees. What if I miss something and then its my fault something happens? Oh gosh :(
 
Her numbers have come down already! Very nice.

As soon as you cut ALL dry food they will SIGNIFICANTLY improve, even more so than giving Levemir now would. If you continue to feed dry it will take a long time for you to get up to a Levemir dose that will counterbalance all those carbs she's eating. I would focus on doing a diet change right now.

I'm so glad to hear she's gotten into the routine already lol, my Scooter is the exact same way now. He knows when shot time is and will come to find me :lol:

But don't over stress yourself over missing ketone tests. You're doing the best you can and that's what matters. And you're doing an awesome job! :YMHUG:
 
I'm sorry you are stressing about ketones. My cat has never had them, and he has high BGs more often than not. It worried a lot at first when I first learned about ketone, and then I stopped worrying about it after a while because it had never happened. Just test as a routine matter, and cross the bridge if you come to it. Try not to stress too much about something that may never happen.

You will do the best you can for your cat, and you must forgive yourself for not being perfect. It's impossible. Notice how your cat acts. If she is acting fine, she probably is fine. If she's eating, and running around demanding that you feed her, don't worry.

You are doing a great job!
 
Thank you all so much for your support and encouragment. It honestly means the world to me! <3

With a possible fur shot, if I were to test a few hours later (I would assume her sugars wouldnt drop much), is it okay to give her another dose of insulin? By her sugars this morning, I'm pretty sure thats what happened last night.

Also in regards to her sugars, what amount of a drop is TOO much? Her sugars were extremely high this morning, but the lowest they've ever been 2 hours later. Should I be worried?
 
If you get a fur shot, do not give another shot. You have no way of knowing how much insulin went in and it's best to be safe. You'll get a chance 12 hours after the first one for another shot, and the cat will get over any missed shot. Everybody does fur shots.

Don't worry too much about drops, unless the cat drops too low. Some cats like to do that. Frustrating for the beans though, as they are hard to predict. It's good that you are testing 2 hours after your shot. It looks like today will be a more active cycle, so you'll want to get tests more often if you can, perhaps every 2-3 hours. That will give you a curve, and start to give you an idea of how Buttons reacts to the insulin throughout the cycle. It will be important to know when the nadir typically is.
 
Hi, It is so tempting when the BG is high to try to make up for a fur shot, but you can't. It's very likely that you gave her some insulin -- even just a little bit -- and you don't know how much. No matter what the readings "seem" to tell you at +2, your cat might be shooting up at +2 because of the food she ate, or because she's started a bounce, or because she's a cat, and they do illogical things sometimes. Try to relax as you see the higher numbers.

What I do is just test for ketones, and stop taking blood readings after a fur shot. That way I don't stress out all day about how high the BG is, and how upset I am with myself for messing up the shot, but Wendy probably knows something I don't. So, go ahead and grit your teeth, and take those readings today. Remember, it is impossible to Not give a fur shot once in a while.
 
Okay. Thank you so much! It is getting easier.

Another question. I remember when Buttons wasnt eating at first, someone suggested yogurt. Is that because the sugars in it are high? Stupid question, I know. But I gave it to her as a treat today after her shot, and as you can see, her sugars went for a run. I bought her these 100% natural froze dried treats, but she wont even try them. She just turns her nose up. of course, I want to give her a treat for being good, but I dont know what to give her. Help?
 
Yes, there are sugars in milk products, so that helps to explain the numbers. Nice to see the pinks today though, making progress.

There are lots of different freeze dried meat treats. Mine eat Pure Bites chicken and turkey. They also make shrimp, but only my other cat eats them. You should also be able to find freeze dried salmon treats. It's a matter of experimenting to see what works. Here is a list of low carb treat http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172
 
My kitties don't like the freeze dried stuff either. I use a treat made by Wellness called Pure Delights, they are more like a jerky.
 
Okay! Thank you! I'll try that :)


Now this might seem stupid, but are there going to be times when you test her sugars and its going to be mixed blood of her and you? Theres been a few times where my finger has hurt, so I know I must have pricked it, but no blood when I squeezed my finger. I tested her tonight and my finger was bleeding a bit. Does it matter, or effect it too much?
 
Are you putting something under her ear when you poke it? Like a gauze pad or cotton under the ear and on top of your fingers? You shouldn't be poking through to the other side to get your finger. After you do the poke you can fold the gauze pad over her ear to do compress it for a bit to prevent bruising.

This video is a great example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 may have used, but this second one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398 shows how you can use a gauze pad to protect your fingers.
 
On Friday, it will be a week since I changed Buttons insulin to Levemir. Her sugars are doing WAY better too! How long would you wait to possibly change her dosage? How do you calculate how much she should go up and all that?

Thanks!
 
I'm so happy to hear that your cat's BG is better now. That is wonderful. I can't give you any dosing advise -- I'm not even that advanced with the Lantus that I use, but I'm sure someone will be more than happy to help you.

This is what I suggest you do: Go to the Levemir forum and post a new post. In the subject line put the date, then your cat's name, then your cat's AM pre shot value, and then "Dose Advice Please." Like this: "6/13 Max AMPS 233 Dose Advice Please?" If your Spreadsheet is up to date, someone should be able to help you make a dosing decision or she/he may tell you that the Levemir users need more information to help you.

Each day you post, post a new post with the date, cat's name, and AM pre shot value and a question mark if you have a question. You can also show any tests that you took in the subject line like this: "6/13 Max AMPS 405 +2 384 +6 315 PMPS 376" and so on. It's helpful for the members of this board to see a new post each day instead of one long post that lasts for several days.

One other thing you can do is make a copy of the URL in the address line at the top of your screen for your last post and copy it into your new post like this http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/posting.php?mode=reply&f=28&t=72265. See the URL icon above the word "wonderful" in this post? When you click on it you will see appear in your post, and the cursor will be directly between the two words. When you hit control V to ...u want to. Good luck and have a great night.
 
I agree with Dale. You should start a new thread on the Levemir forum http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php
Make sure you check out the sticky notes at the top for information on Levemir. There is also more information on Levemir on the Lantus Tight Regulation forum http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9. This latter one is one of the most active forums and there are a number of Levemir users posting there because they are using the Tight Regulation Protocol for Lev. If you find you don't get the answers you need on dose on Levemir, you can alway hop over to the Lantus TR forum with a question. And do include a link to you previous post so everyone has the background information.

It's good to see Buttons spreadsheet is improving. Good luck!
 
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