Need your help - May stop lantus

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RobC

Member Since 2016
I was told I should post here as well. (Hope that's OK)
Hey guys, I have posted here before. My cat started on Lantus at the end of March.

Ever since we started the Lantus, our cat has acted WAY different, less affectionate, but the big thing is he MEOWS (high pitched) a lot when going into new rooms. Like he is very, very confused. Tonight it sort of hit me. I am pretty sure that giving him Lantus led to this dementia he has. He never did this prior to taking lantus.

I did a google search on the connection between Lantus and dementia, and it is a side effect.

I give him two shots of 3 units a day and when we check his blood levels about once a week, or more.. he is around 300. Since November, his levels has been: 265, 302, 276, 310, 262, 319, 298, 318.

I want to take him off of this immediately, knowing that it is causing him to have these issues. Can someone please give some advice on what to do? I would rather have him have high sugar than have dementia!

Also, does anyone know if he stops the lantus, could his dementia get better?
 
Hi Rob,
I am sorry you are having these issues.
I think if you stop insulin with blood sugars in the range you mention, you would have a lot more issues with out of control Diabetes. So I would not advocate stopping insulin.
Not seeing what all the preshots and nadir are it is hard to judge and advice but if it were me, I would look at changing the insulin to another insulin. Levemir is another excellent insulin and many cats do well on that when they have not done well on Lantus. I use Levemir on my cat Sheba.
Or you could try prozinc. That is also a good insulin for cats. It is an in and out insulin and doesn't have a depot.
I would also advice testing before every preshot and again mid cycle to see how low the shot takes your cat. That way you will know that he is safe and what the dose should be.
Good luck
 
Had not heard of dementia being a possible side effect of lantus, did a quick Google search myself and am not finding anything vaguely convincing. However, there does seem to be a connection between uncontrolled diabetes and dementia in people so if dementia is his problem then it seems it is more likely linked to a lack of BG control. No harm in changing insulins if that would make you feel more comfortable but I think the big issue here is probably getting the numbers under control. High BG will make kitty feel crap and often result in them being less affectionate etc.

It would be very helpful to set up a spreadsheet (see the tech forum) so we can see exactly what's going on. The few numbers you have provided don't tell us much, looks like that may have been a bounce cycle with kitty staying high and flat.

I definitely would not remove insulin support from a kitty with those numbers or chances are you will end up with a DKA crisis which may kill him.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
I definitely would not remove insulin support from a kitty with those numbers or chances are you will end up with a DKA crisis which may kill him.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with Vyktors Mum about this.
Also, here is an interesting link where folks are discussing personality changes (for the better) when switching from Lantus to Levemir. It's a couple of years old and I wasn't part of the discussion (I've only been here for 2 months) so take it as you will. I found it interesting. Hoping for the best for you your kitty.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/attention-lantus-to-levemir-users.122941/
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Had not heard of dementia being a possible side effect of lantus, did a quick Google search myself and am not finding anything vaguely convincing. However, there does seem to be a connection between uncontrolled diabetes and dementia in people so if dementia is his problem then it seems it is more likely linked to a lack of BG control. No harm in changing insulins if that would make you feel more comfortable but I think the big issue here is probably getting the numbers under control. High BG will make kitty feel crap and often result in them being less affectionate etc.

It would be very helpful to set up a spreadsheet (see the tech forum) so we can see exactly what's going on. The few numbers you have provided don't tell us much, looks like that may have been a bounce cycle with kitty staying high and flat.

I definitely would not remove insulin support from a kitty with those numbers or chances are you will end up with a DKA crisis which may kill him.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything Vyktor's Mum has posted... 110%.

I did some searching on my own and came to the same conclusion... dementia in humans is more likely to show up due to uncontrolled diabetes. For that reason, I'm not so sure switching to another insulin will help, but there's no way of knowing unless you try.

If you're willing, please set up a spreadsheet to enter kitty's data so we can see what's going on and how to help.
 
Barbara & Uncle said:
I totally agree with Vyktors Mum about this.
Also, here is an interesting link where folks are discussing personality changes (for the better) when switching from Lantus to Levemir. It's a couple of years old and I wasn't part of the discussion (I've only been here for 2 months) so take it as you will. I found it interesting. Hoping for the best for you your kitty.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/attention-lantus-to-levemir-users.122941/
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. Seems Bronx is getting the same exact front-leg twitching "like a horse" as a few others on Lantus. As I increase the dose, twitching seems to get worse. And he is not himself for the first 8-10 hours after shooting. Wonder if Lev is the way to go for Bronx too.
 
Bronx's dad said:
Thanks for that link. Seems Bronx is getting the same exact front-leg twitching "like a horse" as a few others on Lantus. As I increase the dose, twitching seems to get worse. And he is not himself for the first 8-10 hours after shooting. Wonder if Lev is the way to go for Bronx too.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's very interesting. I just happened to stumble upon that link because your original post peaked my interest. I hope if you do go ahead and pursue changing insulins your vet will be helpful and supportive. As I wrote earlier, I am not one of experienced people here, but from everything I've read so far, that might be the way to go. I'd love to hear what you decide to do and how your cat is doing.
 
Bronx's dad said:
Seems Bronx is getting the same exact front-leg twitching "like a horse" as a few others on Lantus. As I increase the dose, twitching seems to get worse. And he is not himself for the first 8-10 hours after shooting. Wonder if Lev is the way to go for Bronx too.
Click to expand...
Could be. It may be worth trying Levemir.
Alex never had any problems with Lantus, but Levemir is my personal preference for use with cats.
 
My long term FD kitty was started on Lantus. He did a lot of "body twitching" with it which stopped when I changed over to Levemir. My second FD kitty has only ever used Levemir and she has no problems with it. Some kitties do react more with the Lantus because of its acidic quality.


ETA If you ( or your kitty) are not happy with the Lantus, then please change to another type. Stopping insulin all together with numbers that high will lead to some very serious problems.
 
Bronx's dad said:
From what I have read, is starting Lev dose about 66% of Lantus?
Click to expand...
Close enough. 70% is the figure we usually use.

If you switch, please post during the switch. In fact, post right before you switch. We may suggest a little higher Levemir dose depending on numbers and if Bronx has been throwing any ketones. There are a few experienced folks who like to keep an eye on those who switch from one insulin to another in case fast tracking back up the dosing scale should be encouraged. You also want to test for ketones frequently during a switch. It's the perfect time for ketones to rear it's ugly head since the initial insulin dose has been reduced. If ketones begin to develop... we want to know about them ASAP so we can intervene quickly.
 
RobC said:
Ever since we started the Lantus, our cat has acted WAY different, less affectionate, but the big thing is he MEOWS (high pitched) a lot when going into new rooms. Like he is very, very confused.
Click to expand...
This info may or not be any use to you, but my Ivana also did the meowing like your kitty (although for her it started after remission so highly doubtful it was Lantus linked). We and the vet concluded it was Sundownder Syndrome, which is a type of dementia that also happens in humans. High blood pressure was also on the table as a diagnosis as that meowing is a sign of this too, but our vet's equipment couldn't get a read on Ivana's BP and the physical exam showed no issue as best that could be told. Chamomile tea, coconut oil and night-lights seemed to help her confusion. Later, we got her blood pressure tested on a new machine and it was sky-high. Putting Ivana on medication for her blood pressure has helped immensely with the meowing, it pretty much stopped overnight. Perhaps you could get your kitty's blood pressure checked? If nothing else, it will at least rule it out.
 
Thanks for the response everyone. I plan on talking to the vet on Monday about using an alternative to Lantus. I know many of you mentioned Levemir.

I have an excel sheet I keep on my computer everyday. I monitor the dosage I give him and how many times he urinates a day. He goes a lot, I think... 6-7 a day. I also keep his levels when we check it, which seems to be once or twice a week.
 
@RobC -

Following on from @Tara & Ivana's suggestion about checking blood pressure, it's worth mentioning that some CKD cats howl. It might be a good idea to get a full blood workup done for your kitty - especially if the vet checks his blood pressure and finds it to be high. (Hypertension may arise due to kidney issues.)


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