Need to Decide What Amount to Start the Lantus at
- Thread starter Don & Xena
- Start date
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
It’s good you want to switch to lantus because Vetsulin is really for dogs. Cats metabolism is faster so Vetsulin doesn’t last long enough fur cats.
We usually suggested starting on the dose you were using or slightly lower. I’ll tag Wendy and Bron to see what they think. @Wendy&Neko @Bron and Sheba (GA)
We usually suggested starting on the dose you were using or slightly lower. I’ll tag Wendy and Bron to see what they think. @Wendy&Neko @Bron and Sheba (GA)
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
There is not huge amount of data to go by, many of the preshots are missing, but from what is there, the cycles all look pretty flat.
Just to be safe, I think I would start at 2.5 units Lantus.
See what others think.
I would also make sure you have the correct syringes. You need U100, 3/10, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings on them.
You also need to make sure you test before every shot to see it is safe to give the dose.
Do you have a hypo kit set up?
Just to be safe, I think I would start at 2.5 units Lantus.
See what others think.
I would also make sure you have the correct syringes. You need U100, 3/10, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings on them.
You also need to make sure you test before every shot to see it is safe to give the dose.
Do you have a hypo kit set up?
I would agree with Bron's suggestions.
Please be aware that Lantus is a very different type of insulin than Vetsulin. You'll want to review the post on dosing methods along with all of the other sticky notes at the top of the board. You will need to routinely test at pre-shot times and preferably close to nadir during each cycle (i.e., at least 4 times a day). Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle.
Good luck with the switch.
Please be aware that Lantus is a very different type of insulin than Vetsulin. You'll want to review the post on dosing methods along with all of the other sticky notes at the top of the board. You will need to routinely test at pre-shot times and preferably close to nadir during each cycle (i.e., at least 4 times a day). Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle.
Good luck with the switch.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
If you are going to switch to lantus
Lantus is expensive in the US ,you can get the generic for lantus which is much more affordable, if you want I can suggest where to get it, just ask
It's better to use the pens for lantus , one pen would last about 6 months, you would order 5 pens and use them the same as a vial, just insert the syringe in the rubber piece that is on the pen and draw out the insulin
We also don't increase by full units, we increase or decrease by 0.25 units when needed
You can also get the syringes with half unit markings at a Walmart. Their ReliOn Brand syringes of 0.3 cc (30 unit) capacity come with half unit markings. Cost $12.58 for a box of 100
This is what the packaging looks like: either box
They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
You might need a script from your vet
:
You can also use any of the syringes listed below
Using syringes with a pen, cartridge, or vial:
Lantus is expensive in the US ,you can get the generic for lantus which is much more affordable, if you want I can suggest where to get it, just ask
It's better to use the pens for lantus , one pen would last about 6 months, you would order 5 pens and use them the same as a vial, just insert the syringe in the rubber piece that is on the pen and draw out the insulin
We also don't increase by full units, we increase or decrease by 0.25 units when needed
You can also get the syringes with half unit markings at a Walmart. Their ReliOn Brand syringes of 0.3 cc (30 unit) capacity come with half unit markings. Cost $12.58 for a box of 100
This is what the packaging looks like: either box
They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
You might need a script from your vet
:
You can also use any of the syringes listed below
Using syringes with a pen, cartridge, or vial:
- U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus, Levemir, or the Biosimilars from vials, cartridges, and pens.
- BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn are just some of the brands available with half unit markings.
- Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest)
- Full and half-unit syringe scales:
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Don & Xena
Member Since 2023
Edit** I thought it may help to mention that Xena's # at original diagnosis was 280 (Human Glucometer)... so my point is that you can see Vetsulin has not brought us much of anywhere as far as i can see. (this makes me feel like I may be best considering her as if she were starting new)
Thank You So Much!... to all of you for your insight.
Bron...Thank You very much for mentioning the syringe type. While I was aware of that because of past experience AND from reading/researching here, I know it is HUGELY Important, and I appreciate your care/advice, because God forbid I didn't know... uising the wrong syringes could kill my cat. (As it turns out OF COURSE... just like 6 months ago while organizing... I finally decided to get rid of all my left over "U-100 3/10thcc 29 gauge with half unit markings" that I still had from 10 yrs ago (more on that below))
...and YES, I definitely have a Hypo Kit. I read and printed the Hypo Kit contents and Hypo Treatment procedure. (Thank You For that also)
---And I will Definitely be testing every Preshot (Again some pertinent history below)
It so happens...that I have actually been through this before, but it was 10 years ago, and I had a gentleman named "Ken" from this group coach me 1 on 1 (not on this forum), which was a HUGE help. So... I do know the process, but since KEN was so experienced, I followed his advice for dosing. The results were Amazing, and I was very Lucky and my cat "chester" (from 10 years ago) went into remission after only a few weeks. Because he went OTJ so quickly, I didn't really have a chance to really get a lot of experience as far as the dosing, and dealing with changes etc.
Below you will see the Spreadsheet from my cat 10 yrs ago, and how I did follow a strict process.
10 yrs ago - Chester's Sheet THIS IS NOT MY CURRENT SUGAR BABY For Example ONLY
That being said... I did not want to use Vetsulin. My plan was to change to Lantus, but because of some serious financial setbacks I had to source some Lantus. I figured that I would try the Vetsulin in the meantime. However, I honestly feel like the Vetsulin is doing very little to nothing, and I actually did start taking BG readings earlier that are not on the chart...because the meter I had was reading much lower (consistantly) than what the #'s actually were. It did not seem to be random, it just seemed to be consistantly low... if that makes sensse. So... Seeing that the Vetsulin was notbringing Xena anywhere near low #'s, I started testing more for the Nadir's... but also getting some Pre Shot #'s. I really feel like I have an idea of what is going on with the Vetsulin...which again is that it is doing little to nothing.
When I switch to Lantus, the testing will be kept on a strict regiment. My feeling though, is that it is almost like going on Lantus from being on no insulin at all. That is why I wanted to start low. I really don't feel like the Vetsulin has given us any idea of how she will react to Lantus...and I know all cats are different, but if you look at my cat Chester's chart, you will see that when we started him on Lantus, 1 Unit brought him from an AMPS of 421 to a PMPS of 65! That makes me hesitant to start any higher. I do realize I very well may have to increase the dose, but I would rather play it safe by Starting Low and Going Slow...even though I will be keeping a strict testing schedule, and DO want to move to Tight Regulation moving forward.
All feedback welcome, and again Thank You to all.
@Bron and Sheba (GA) @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @tiffmaxee @Diane Tyler's Mom
Thank You So Much!... to all of you for your insight.
Bron...Thank You very much for mentioning the syringe type. While I was aware of that because of past experience AND from reading/researching here, I know it is HUGELY Important, and I appreciate your care/advice, because God forbid I didn't know... uising the wrong syringes could kill my cat. (As it turns out OF COURSE... just like 6 months ago while organizing... I finally decided to get rid of all my left over "U-100 3/10thcc 29 gauge with half unit markings" that I still had from 10 yrs ago (more on that below))
...and YES, I definitely have a Hypo Kit. I read and printed the Hypo Kit contents and Hypo Treatment procedure. (Thank You For that also)
---And I will Definitely be testing every Preshot (Again some pertinent history below)
It so happens...that I have actually been through this before, but it was 10 years ago, and I had a gentleman named "Ken" from this group coach me 1 on 1 (not on this forum), which was a HUGE help. So... I do know the process, but since KEN was so experienced, I followed his advice for dosing. The results were Amazing, and I was very Lucky and my cat "chester" (from 10 years ago) went into remission after only a few weeks. Because he went OTJ so quickly, I didn't really have a chance to really get a lot of experience as far as the dosing, and dealing with changes etc.
Below you will see the Spreadsheet from my cat 10 yrs ago, and how I did follow a strict process.
10 yrs ago - Chester's Sheet THIS IS NOT MY CURRENT SUGAR BABY For Example ONLY
That being said... I did not want to use Vetsulin. My plan was to change to Lantus, but because of some serious financial setbacks I had to source some Lantus. I figured that I would try the Vetsulin in the meantime. However, I honestly feel like the Vetsulin is doing very little to nothing, and I actually did start taking BG readings earlier that are not on the chart...because the meter I had was reading much lower (consistantly) than what the #'s actually were. It did not seem to be random, it just seemed to be consistantly low... if that makes sensse. So... Seeing that the Vetsulin was notbringing Xena anywhere near low #'s, I started testing more for the Nadir's... but also getting some Pre Shot #'s. I really feel like I have an idea of what is going on with the Vetsulin...which again is that it is doing little to nothing.
When I switch to Lantus, the testing will be kept on a strict regiment. My feeling though, is that it is almost like going on Lantus from being on no insulin at all. That is why I wanted to start low. I really don't feel like the Vetsulin has given us any idea of how she will react to Lantus...and I know all cats are different, but if you look at my cat Chester's chart, you will see that when we started him on Lantus, 1 Unit brought him from an AMPS of 421 to a PMPS of 65! That makes me hesitant to start any higher. I do realize I very well may have to increase the dose, but I would rather play it safe by Starting Low and Going Slow...even though I will be keeping a strict testing schedule, and DO want to move to Tight Regulation moving forward.
All feedback welcome, and again Thank You to all.
@Bron and Sheba (GA) @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @tiffmaxee @Diane Tyler's Mom
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Don & Xena
Member Since 2023
Thank You for the info. Sorry... I have been working on a reply to all these suggestions, and I tagged you also. It explains more about the situation along with some info regarding the fact that i do have some experience.
Thank you so much for your insight. I really appreciate ppl taking the time.
I have actually aquired a new vial of Lantus, but Definitely will need this help moving forward.
Again thank you, all feedback is appreciated.
Thank you so much for your insight. I really appreciate ppl taking the time.
I have actually aquired a new vial of Lantus, but Definitely will need this help moving forward.
Again thank you, all feedback is appreciated.