Need some advice for sick civvie kitty

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ohiogal

ohiogal

Member Since 2012
Hi all,

I need some advice. My 16 1/2 year old civvie kitty, Kennedy, developed a URI in December of last year. The vet's tried 4 different antibiotics and nothing's cleared it up.

In addition, he's lost a significant amount of weight (down to 5 lbs. from 7). He has some sort of lump in his neck that the vet thinks might be a tumor, but the only way to find out if it's benign or not is to go in and remove it.

He was doing OK, but in the last few weeks he stopped eating and became dehydrated. He became wobbly and fell over a couple of times, but the vet put fluids into him and that's revived him.

X-rays don't show any growths or fluid anywhere, and his blood work looks great. His organs are all functioning normally (his heart's a little small, but not abnormally so); so, generally speaking, aside from the URI and the weight loss he's healthy.

Except: he doesn't want to eat unless I hand-feed him A/D - if I set food out he doesn't touch it. Appetite stimulants haven't done a thing. If I put him in front of his food dish and scoop food into it, he'll eat a few bites and then walk away. He drinks, and I can give him fluids because I have a line, but I'm not sure if I should be prolonging this.

He doesn't seem to be in any pain, but he spends all of his time sleeping on my wi-fi router (it's warm there I guess), until I go to bed, then he switches to the bed. He's still jumping, but he's not as sure on his feet as he used to be, and he walks very deliberately as if he's trying to keep his balance. He's slipped and stumbled a few times, and I know that eventually he'll flop over again and won't get up until I put more fluids in him.

So, I don't know what to do. He's too old for surgery to do any good (to remove the lump in his neck), and I have a feeling that the reason he's so skinny is because anything he eats is feeding the tumor. The vet says he really can't afford to lose any more weight, but that's inevitable if he doesn't eat. He just doesn't seem interested.

Does anyone have any advice/suggestions on where I should go on this? Am I delaying the inevitable by putting fluids in him and hand-feeding him just to keep him alive? Or is there something I haven't tried yet that might work to get him better? On the one hand I don't want to give up on him, but on the other hand I don't want to make him stay if he really just wants to go. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!
 
I don't ever consider a cat "too old" for surgery, age is not a disease. But it sounds like he might not be healthy enough for sedation. Is the vet able to get a look down his throat at all without sedation? Wondering if the is some mass growth inside too that is causing the not wanting to eat. There are some high calorie pastes out there, we also have had good luck with cat milk. Can find it at PetSmarts and Walmart. Not kitten milk though that would work too, but they make a cat milk too now. Slow intro so they don't get diarrhea though.

Is he ok with the fluids and assisted feeding? I don't think there is anything wrong with doing either to keep our cats in a better quality of life for longer as long as they are ok with it. If they really fight the assisted feeding, then we have to question if our "helping" is giving them better quality of life.

We watched a cat once while my MIL was out of town because she did subQ fluids for his mom. My nickname for him was Bag-o-bones. He was older than the hills, thin, had a mass on his neck, bad teeth, and his coat was such a wreck that when I tried to give him fluids it was like trying to get water to stay in a sprinkler system. He followed my husband around the house at his slow gate, grunted through his plate of food in pleasure and loved to be petted, his motor still worked. He went back home to his mom and they were quite happy together for a few more months before B-o-b left this world.

I think each cats quality of life measurement is different. For some lazing around on the router and being helped to eat might be a perfectly fine life at 16.5. For other cats they may resent that life. Only you and Kennedy can know if its a good life for Kennedy.
 
Yes, Melanie, the vet was able to look down Kennedy's throat when he was mildly sedated last month to do a skull X ray (to rule out a nasal tumor.) She didn't see anything.

Right now I'm feeding him A/D, which is a high-calorie paste from the vet, and he'll eat a few tablespoons at a time before he turns his head away. He licks it right off the spoon, so he seems OK with it.

The fluids are another story - he does not like having the line in him and it's just me at home, so the last two times I've had to take him to the vet and have them put the fluids in (it's easier with two people because one can hold the cat still while the other monitors the line). I live just down the street so it's no big deal, but obviously the cat does not like being put in a carrier and hiked down the street every other day.

The thing is, he seems OK just lying on the router but a lot of the time he'll lay there with his eyes open staring at nothing, like he really isn't comfortable but doesn't have the energy to do anything else. There are times when his 3rd eyelid is visible in his right eye, does that mean anything? Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
 
Cats also develop age related dementia. I wonder if that's his issue....your description seems to fit a few of the signs.

None of us can make that decision for you - that's between you and Kennedy, not anyone else. I truly believe you'll understand what he tells you...

HUGS! Oh I wish they never aged...
 
You might be on to something there, Squeaky - I checked the symptoms of feline dementia and Kennedy actually has quite a few of them, including peeing outside the letterbox (he's done that a couple of times, always when he's lying on the router. I pick him up and his back legs are damp with urine), decreased appetite and general loss of interest. Thanks! I'll mention it to my veterinarian. I wonder if medication would help at this point?
 
ohiogal said:
Yes, Melanie, the vet was able to look down Kennedy's throat when he was mildly sedated last month to do a skull X ray (to rule out a nasal tumor.) She didn't see anything.

Right now I'm feeding him A/D, which is a high-calorie paste from the vet, and he'll eat a few tablespoons at a time before he turns his head away. He licks it right off the spoon, so he seems OK with it.

The fluids are another story - he does not like having the line in him and it's just me at home, so the last two times I've had to take him to the vet and have them put the fluids in (it's easier with two people because one can hold the cat still while the other monitors the line). I live just down the street so it's no big deal, but obviously the cat does not like being put in a carrier and hiked down the street every other day.

The thing is, he seems OK just lying on the router but a lot of the time he'll lay there with his eyes open staring at nothing, like he really isn't comfortable but doesn't have the energy to do anything else. There are times when his 3rd eyelid is visible in his right eye, does that mean anything? Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
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How and where are you giving the fluids??
A few things that may help.... freeze the needle as it will lessen the "sting" of going in - make sure the bevel of the needle is facing up.
Keep the line (bag) as high as you can and sit as low as you can with kitty (we sit on the floor) I have 2 that get fluids and 1 likes to sit in my lap the other on his throne....they also like soothing music.
You do not have to use the huge needle-you can get smaller needles but it will run slower hence he will have to sit longer.
It takes some time getting used to getting fluids for both of you but it is very doable and will only take a few minutes after you get the hang if it--I sing to mine and scratch their chin while it is running-if kitty is not actively trying to escape try not to "lock him down" and relax--make it special time...

Rico was DX at 11 with CRF --he is almost 17 and gets fluids every other day.... he has a happy and pretty active life.
Also..... Some of the confusion could be due to him needing more fluids as the toxins can affect the brain and cause a confused state of mind and not much appetite as well as they are "toxic"--warming the food may enhance appetite as cats eat by sense of smell-we use AD as well a few times a week-
We started with 100/150 every day for a week (when he initially started fluids) then re evaluate -- over the years it is more frequent as you can only slow kidney disease not cure it. This is Rico --This summer he is 17 years old. Without fluids .... lets just say I am grateful my vet encouraged fluids.
Rico 2016.jpeg
 
1 more thing--not sure the location you are giving SQ but most do bets in the scruff or sides of neck (rotate)
some do the flank-
 
OK 2 more things--(can you tell I have 2 senior kittys)
we have a few safe cat heated pads and I have a few throw blankets that warm up--
Cat are heat seekers when they are healthy and young and much more was seniors-
Just like us the bones get more stiff--If you are willing to add to the comfort level you can talk to your vet about adequan injections as it will slow the progression of arthritis and it is a awesome product... Mine 16 and 17 year old chase and play often.
You can do this at home as well--just need the vial from vet-it is also SQ and can be IM if you prefer (SQ is easier)
As far as the inevitable--like was said above the quality of life of you can know --
In my view there is a inevitable time for all of us--had I had a different vet that didn't offer to show me SQ fluids Rico would have probably not made it til 12 let alone 17--
:bighug:
 
Hi Jayla! Thanks for the advice!

I had some luck getting fluids into Kennedy last night - he really doesn't like to sit or be held anywhere he doesn't feel like being, but I got about 100cc's in, so yay!

The vet gave me some appetite stimulant and said it was OK to crush and put into food, but Kennedy did NOT like that at all! He took a few licks, started drooling and wouldn't eat any more for the rest of the night. I called the vet (a different one at the same clinic), thinking something was horribly wrong, but she said it was probably that the pill was bitter and Kennedy didn't like the taste. That vet told me you should never crush a pill and put in the cat's food, so I thought, geez! Get your act together, people! Fortunately by this morning Kennedy forgot about it and went back to eating the A/D. I guess I'm going to have to put on the welding gloves and see if I can just get the pill down his throat!
 
I never understood vets that say to crush pills in their food and they wouldn't notice. They are cats, not dogs. They WILL notice. I've had some luck wrapping pills in a small amount of pill wrap and burying in their food if they won't be pilled. The eat it as they eat their food.

Glad Kennedy decided to eat his food when it wasn't tampered with ;)
 
Thanks! He ate some Fancy Feast tonight, but didn't really seem interested in the A/D.

Then he did something really weird - he followed me into the kitchen and wandered around his eating area, sniffing at his food dish (which had food in it) and then looking up at me like it was empty. He was acting really hungry but wouldn't eat anything I put out for him, not A/D, not cat treats, not the FF. He licked the cat treats but didn't eat them. What's up with that? Is it the dementia? Is something wrong with his mouth? He was acting like he didn't even know there was food out, but it was right there. Now he's back to lying on the router.

On the upside I got almost 100cc of fluid in him tonight, so he's a little kitty water balloon...
 
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I wonder whether all of this might be because Kennedy just can't smell his food properly? He has had the URI for some time and that might be at the root of the appetite issues. You could try coaxing Beau using your finger to get a little food onto his tongue. The Jacobson's organ might then be able to detect that the food's OK to eat. Also try doing things to increase the aroma of the food (e.g. warming it a little, adding some tuna juice, sprinkling parmesan on top - anything you can do to make it smell stronger. If he is more interested in stronger-smelling food that would be a good lead to follow.

Another thing to check is whether he might be nauseated. Here's a symptom checker and info on treatments: -

Nausea page - Tanya's Site


Mogs
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Thanks, Mogs! Yeah, I think you're right - I've found that if I put a little food in his mouth and he tastes it, he's like, "Oh, that's food, OK" and he'll start eating it. Not a lot, but some.

Not sure about the nausea, he hasn't been throwing up, and all of the blood work that was done in January came back OK so I don't think he has any secondary issues. I think it's mostly because he can't properly smell the food. I wish I could get the URI cleared up, but 4 different antibiotics haven't really touched it. I've thought about buying a humidifier, but I'd need one big enough for the whole apartment and I'm not sure that would help much if it's a virus that's causing it. I got a new furnace unit for this year and I wonder if it's making the air too dry - but I don't think that would CAUSE a URI, would it? Hm...
 
ohiogal said:
Not sure about the nausea, he hasn't been throwing up,
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Glad to hear that Kennedy ate a little for you. :)

Just because a cat's not vomiting it may still be experiencing digestive discomfort/nausea. If Kennedy's not eating much there is the possibility that he might have a touch of tummy acid problems. If you could encourage him to eat little and often, that might help get his appetite back on track.

I don't know whether the drier air might be an issue for Kennedy. Have a look at the link below - in particular the bit about the nebulizer toward the end of the page:

http://icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/chronic-nasal-discharge-snuffles-cat

The article also recommends taking steps to make food more aromatic.

Please keep us updated on Kennedy's progress. :)


Mogs
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Hi Mogs,

Actually I tried a nebulizer treatment on Kennedy, but it didn't end up doing much and he HATED being in the chamber. As soon as he came out his symptoms returned.

I gave him a 1/4 tab of appetite stimulant around noon, I got him to swallow it (I think!) but it must have still been bitter because he started drooling again. He stopped, but since then he's been rather low-energy so I hope he's not having a reaction! We'll see if it perks up his appetite.

Thanks for the info about the nausea! I wonder if it would hurt him to give him a 1/4 Pepcid tablet? I used to give that to Casey (my diabetic kitty) for her pancreatitis and it helped.

I'll keep y'all updated! Right now he's dozing on the router with his third eyelid showing on his right eye. What does that mean? Anything? Or does it just mean he's asleep with his eyes open?
 
I don't want to give you any false hope because this cat was around 12 at the time this happened but how long did the vet keep your cat on the antibiotics, my niece has Scotty's sister and she had an upper respiratory infection so bad my niece was thinking of putting her down, I told her no way was she doing that to Scotty's sister over a sinus infection, she too had lost weight and would not eat, she was just a bag of bones and when I saw her I did not think she would make it, I took her to my vet and insisted that he put her on Zeniquin for at least a month, he really did not want to but since she was in such bad shape he went ahead, at the end of that month she was over the sinus infection and had already gained a pound, a year later she is still doing fine. I had a sinus infection so bad, it was even in the bone and I had to have surgery but the doctor told me that with a tough sinus infection you have to give antibiotics long term, as long as he can tolerate the antibiotics I think I would try that, you will probably have to keep giving fluids and feeding for awhile, my niece did but maybe this would help him. My niece's cat was also very weak, lethargic and spacey.
 
As an after thought, they also gave my niece's cats a steroid shot, my ear, nose and throat guy was big on giving steroids with sinus infections too and it did seem to help her.
 
Thanks, Nancy! I'll suggest Zeniquin to my vet. Kennedy's been on azithromycin since the beginning of February. I keep dosing him but honestly it doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. What form does Zeniquin come in?
 
About the pepcid...I wouldn't make it a habit to give regularly. I personally have acid reflux (stress induced...). I've been advised not to take any type of antacids, PPI's, etc on a regular basis and rather than trying to treat and mask the symptoms, try and do thinks that prevent it from getting bad in the first place. I stay elevated after I eat and I eliminate things from my diet that I know make it worse like citrus and dairy. To transfer this to a cat (ironically, my Diego also has reflux occasionally) I raise the food and water bowl so that the stomach isn't higher than the esophagus when he eats or drinks, and I notice which flavors/brands of foods seem to precede a little flare up. He hasn't had any episodes lately because I prevent them from occurring.
 
OK, I got the Zeniquin! I've given him two doses so far (It's one tablet cut into 16 pieces! I didn't even know you could cut a tablet into 16 pieces…)

Yesterday when I got home from work he trotted to the food dish and MEOWED to be fed, and really chowed down on what I put down for him. He didn't eat a ton, but it was encouraging anyway! We'll see if he's eaten anything when I get home from work today.

One weird thing I noticed last night - he's missing an oblong patch of fur on the back left side of his neck! It's about 1 1/4" long. There isn't any redness or lesions or anything like that, it's just a bald patch. It's not round so I don't think it's ringworm. Should I be concerned about that?

Oh - and he hasn't pooped since I think Friday or Saturday. He hasn't eaten much, though, and he's been getting 100ccs of fluids every day so he's not dehydrated. Is that normal? Or should I call the vet? He's been peeing normally.
 
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Update! I'm giving assisted feeding a try - when I got home Kennedy hadn't eaten anything all day, so I had a feeding syringe and tried giving him some food that way. Amazingly, he didn't try to kill me, so this might work. With any luck, the Zeniquin combined with assisted feeding might get enough fuel in him to get better. In any case, I should know by the end of the week if this is doing any good. I hope I'm not doing too much (that is, not being willing to let him go), but he just doesn't seem like he's ready to go yet.

Those who have done assisted feeding: how much should I give him? So far I've fed him twice, two feeding syringes full each time. Is that enough? Each syringe holds about 10mls...
 
Sending healing vibes for Kennedy and :bighug:s for you.

Can't help with the syringe feeding - never done it. Any time Saoirse has struggled with eating I've hand fed her.


Mogs
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Thanks, Liz! That's the exact same video I watched to convince myself that assist-feeding Kennedy was even possible. :-) That cat is pretty darn docile, I must say!

So far I've fed him four times, and each time I've gotten about 2 syringle fulls before he starts struggling and I let him go (because I don't want him to develop an aversion to the process). I've been able to get most of the food into him, so yay!

But some of the time when he's chewing, he tilts his head way, WAY to the right and his chewing sounds like he's eating something crunchy - which is bizarre because he's eating A/D, which has nothing crunchy in it. He also winces like a cat does when they're eating a crunchy kitty treat. The vet told me she didn't see anything unusual in his mouth when she looked, so where is that crunching noise coming from??? Hm!!!

I guess at this point I'll just try assist feeding, fluids, and the Zeniquin, and see what happens. So far he hasn't really perked up all that much, and I honestly don't know how long I should give it before I conclude that it isn't helping. I don't want to prolong his life if it isn't what he wants, but on the other hand I don't want to give up too early and deny him a chance to get better. I was considering taking him to the vet maybe Friday for an evaluation - do y'all think that's too early?
 
Chris always did that grinding with his teeth when we assist fed him too. I always calculated there to be roughly 15-20 calories per syringe when I fed i/d with some calorie booster in it. I think you are doing pretty good if you are able to get 4 feedings of 2 syringes into him. More would probably be good, but that's a good base for an old guy who doesn't do much :)

Did your vet ever try an anti-viral to help knock out that URI? Famcyclovir has done wonders on shortening the life of URIs at the shelter and in my own cats.
 
Hi Melanie and Liz! Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a grinding kitty! I wonder what the heck it is??

I don't think the vet's tried an anti-viral, but it feels like we've tried everything else! So far we've tried:

Convenia
Clavamox
Doxycycline
Azithromycin
Dexacidin (nose drops)
Prednisone (for inflammation)

and I just started him on Zeniquin.

His breathing does seem a little better, so maybe the Zeniquin is working, although I wonder if lethargy is a side effect? He seems to be very tired, all he's done since I got home is lie on the router...
 
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<<On the upside I got almost 100cc of fluid in him tonight, so he's a little kitty water balloon...>>

I always call my sub-q kitties, water balloons shaped like cats. They do look quite funny. You really seem on the ball. I hope your kitty does well with all your care.
I too wondered what civvie was. At first I wondered why so many "civet" cats had diabetes and then I realized that it most likely is something like civilian kitty, non-diabetic, but Mogs already explained that.
The teeth grinding is so weird. Sparkle does it too. Sometimes just with baby food.
 
brenda noll said:
didn't read all the posts. has he been checked for diabetes? it has similar symptoms
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Yes, when all this started they did two sets of blood tests, one in December and one in January. Glucose on both came back as normal. Thanks though!
 
Well, tonight Kennedy's eaten almost 4 syringes of food (making it 6 total for the day), he pooped for the first time in a week, and according to the bathroom scale he's gained a little weight, so yay! He's sleeping a lot but I'm not sure if that's a side effect of the Zeniquin (I guess tiredness is a side effect) or maybe he's convalescing? I may back off the fluids, he still has some in his leg from the 100ccs I put in him this morning (his paw looks swollen but it doesn't seem to pain him so I think it's just the water).

Also, he ate some of the food I put out this morning when I left for work, so yay! Maybe the Zeniquin is working and his sense of smell is improving? I'll keep you all updated!
 
Nancy, the dosage was a 100 mg tablet I think (I'll double check the bottle when I get home). My guess is it's cut up that small because Kennedy's weight is so low. Maybe because of the side effects?
 
ohiogal said:
Well, tonight Kennedy's eaten almost 4 syringes of food (making it 6 total for the day), he pooped for the first time in a week, and according to the bathroom scale he's gained a little weight, so yay! He's sleeping a lot but I'm not sure if that's a side effect of the Zeniquin (I guess tiredness is a side effect) or maybe he's convalescing? I may back off the fluids, he still has some in his leg from the 100ccs I put in him this morning (his paw looks swollen but it doesn't seem to pain him so I think it's just the water).

Also, he ate some of the food I put out this morning when I left for work, so yay! Maybe the Zeniquin is working and his sense of smell is improving? I'll keep you all updated!
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Hooray for eating and pooping!
 
Maggies Mom Debby said:
Hooray for eating and pooping!
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:-) He ate again today while I was gone, so yay! The weird thing is, he's still wobbly on his feet and I don't know why that is - not sure if it's the Zeniquin, his low weight, something neurological, or what. I'm getting him to eat, so he's got gas in the tank. Sometimes he walks fine, sometimes he wavers like he's going to fall over. Not sure what's going on. Could he have something else?
 
Thanks, Deb! I made an appointment to take him to the vet next Thursday for evaluation, I want to find out if I'm getting him better, or just delaying the inevitable. I'll probably have them do a blood draw and check his levels, see where he's at.
 
If they are giving him 1/16 of a 100mg pill that seems a very small dose, normally they give a cat 25mg a day or every other day but as you say maybe because of his weight, all the cats I have had on it were on the hefty side, maybe he is just wobbly still from the URI, tree pollen is in the extremely high category and I feel pretty wobbly and dizzy headed, even if he is better it will take a long time for the URI to completely clear. I agree though on the potassium and B12, a B12 shot would make him feel better and eat more also.
 
Thanks, everybody! There's potassium in the sub-Q fluids I'm giving him. How can I get B12 into him? The vet's office is closed for the weekend. Are there pills I can give him?

He's still eating and drinking and doing OK, although this morning he jumped onto the bookcase (not very high, about 3' off the floor), slipped, and fell back off onto the floor. :-( He wasn't hurt, but I wish his wobbliness would go away. The general lack of energy seems to be his biggest problem, other than his weight. My sister's coming for the weekend and she might ask why I haven't had him put down yet. I guess I just don't give up that easy! My thinking is that URIs aren't fatal, and if his biggest problem is the weight loss then maybe that's a solvable problem. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too stubborn about this and I should just let him go, but he's still bright-eyed and eating and drinking, so I don't think he's ready to go yet.
 
Hi Nancy,

You can mix B12 methylcobalamin into his food. Do a web search for Zobaline and (I think) Vitacost may do a diabetic-friendly methylcobalamin supplement, too.

Sending healing vibes to Kennedy and :bighug:s to you. Glad to hear he's eating and drinking well (anti-jinx).


Mogs
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Hi Mogs,

Kennedy isn't diabetic, so no worries there. Can I buy B12 methylcobalamin in a store anywhere? Or does it have to be Zobaline?
 
I only know about the diabetic-friendly ones. If you look on Tanya's Site for B vitamins there is information there about dos and don'ts when choosing a supplement. (I'm awfully tired or I'd dig up the link for you. Sorry. :( )


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
I only know about the diabetic-friendly ones. If you look on Tanya's Site for B vitamins there is information there about dos and don'ts when choosing a supplement. (I'm awfully tired or I'd dig up the link for you. Sorry. :( )


Mogs
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Oh, that's OK, Mogs, thanks for the information! I really appreciate it!! :)

ETA: I just fed Kennedy, and this time he ate almost 3 full syringes! Yay!
 
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By the way, where's the best place to buy those fluid bags? I'm sure I'm paying too much at the vet's…

ETA: just talked to the vet's office and I'll be picking up a B12 shot to give him later on, after work. Yay! The trick will be getting it into the fluids-bag port so it can get into his system.Usually I have to hold him still with at least one hand so he doesn't bolt while I'm trying to give him fluids!

I hope it helps, though, because he's seeming pretty weak in the back legs now when he jumps and I can't figure out why, since he's been getting three square meals a day since Tuesday night. Unless there's something else going on, like he's becoming diabetic, but I guess I'll know on Thursday. When his blood work was done in January his glucose was normal.
 
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