need refresher course for Noah/strange numbers

[Noah & me (GA)]

First off, Noah has other serious health issues. Cardiomyopathy, a severely enlarged heart, needs dental work but will NOT survive the surgery (he's on BUPE) and every time we take him to the vet we're sure he'll have a cardiac event, he's really that nervous. We have 6 cats so we free feed. I know for a fact I read here once that some cats on Caninsulin can go as high a 6 units twice/day. Noah is approaching that number. Sorry I don't publish his curves, they're done in Excel because they make more sense to me and I can see his last 3 and 5 day averages, his lows and highs. Last night he was nadir low but this was at the 12 hour mark, I did not give him his PM insulin and he did eat twice before bedtime.
I should know this, what is bouncing?
Is it time to consider another insulin?
He's such a fussy eater we give him either Fancy Feast Salmon pate' or whatever other wet he will eat.
I'm not irresponsible and this is my second diabetic cat. It's just so frustrating keeping his weight up, watching him get older every day, having perfect numbers and curves and then watching everything go down the toilet.
He is a real loner, we never see him in the litterbox and his eating habits are a mystery. His 3 brothers and Mom and Dad all died from complications mostly due to Cardiomyopathy, Noah shouldn't even be alive so every day is a gift.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Caninsulin is known to cause some cats to dive from high numbers. Maybe try ProZinc if you want an insulin that "handles" in a similar way but is gentler, as in slower in onset with longer duration. There's always Lantus if you want to try a depot insulin.

 

[Squalliesmom]

I should know this, what is bouncing?

Bouncing is what happens when your kitty's bg drops too low, or lower than usual. Kitty's liver goes into overdrive, thinking the body is being starved of glucose, so it dumps a ton of glucogen into the system, causing the bg numbers to rise.

Is it time to consider another insulin?

Given Noah's other health issues, I think it might be a good idea to try another insulin that might be a little easier on him. Like Kris says, ProZinc is another "in-and-out" insulin, like Vetsulin, but gentler on kitty without the big drops. Lantus and Levemir are longer-acting insulins, and are also pretty gentle on kitty. I switched from Vetsulin to Lantus and have been happy with it, but ECID!

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Sorry I don't publish his curves, they're done in Excel

You can attach an Ecel to a post and then others can download and view the SS.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Thanks all, very much. I'm in and out all day today. I just picked up Noah's BUPE and my vet said they have cats on as much as 12 or 13 units. No two cats are the same. I don't have blind faith in my vet, she's smart but there are two sides to every story. All the things I wrote about Noah's medical history; I wasn't being tragic, he's just one of those cats that has a bit of everything and leaves vets scratching their heads. I wish I could feed him the exact right food at the exact right time but that will never happen. He can be a perfect patient and then I wonder if my meters batteries are dead. And more than anything else I have faith and respect for all the members here and their help (wipe away those tears). When I tell new members this is the best place to be I really mean it. We really love Noah and in a way we're hanging on to the last member of a family of 6 beautiful and happy cats. I'm not letting sentimentality get in the way of common sense, it's just so frustrating. Someone just rang the doorbell so now he'll be hiding in the basement for hours. What a life!

 

[Marlena]

I really feel for you, it must be difficult but you are doing such a fantastic job with your kitties.
You might want to change insulin to Prozinc, it is a better choice and you still have some leeway when you have to skip for various reasons.
I would like to shed some light on bouncing as I understand it and what to do with it.
There might be 2 types of bouncing or, like some might prefer it bouncing and rebound (aka Somogyi):
1. kitty drops lower than usual and liver panics because it is sudden reduction in the BG and liver throws extra glucose as protection but you can ignore this and do nothing in terms of changing insulin dose and continue for next few cycles with given dose and the numbers should come down, for example AM BG 12, kitty drops to 6 at nadir and before she was only dropping to 9 so BG of 6 is a panicky number but it is a very good number as you want that drop (but no more than 50%)
2. kitty drops very low (hypo or almost hypo) so you need to act and reduce the dose slightly and see what happens after 3 days, for example AM BG 12, kitty drops to 2.5 and then PM BG might be much higher than AM, this is a very steep drop and the dose must be reduced.
What we generally want to see is drop of BG of no more than 50% at nadir.
With Vetsulin things are more complicated as you can see two drops or two nadirs that's why you need to test 2 hours after injection to see how quickly kitty drops but I'm sure you read all info regarding Vetsulin.
That's very basic take on bouncing and if any member would like to correct me or contribute please do so.
I hope it helps.
Sending healing vines to you and your kitties
Marlena and Rocky