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Backyardtarpon

Member Since 2013
My Jezzi, 15 year old calico, diagnosed march 22, 2013 has been tested at the vets office because he told me I couldn't test at home, that the food I was feeding her was great...NOT! So I finally got the nerve to home test. I am using the Bayer Contour USB.
FIRST TEST TODAY PRE-food @ 4:00pm. 288
Test right before injection (post-food) 7:30pm. 73
Thinking I had done something wrong, but not sure, I gave her 3 units (instead of 6 like vet prescribed)
Just tested her now, 2.5 hours post insulin and it was 42!
Panicking now!
She is acting ok, no seizures, she did throw up, but that's not particularly new. Sometimes she eats too fast.

So now, beside staying up all night and putting pinholes in my poor cats ear, I don't know what to do. Should I be freaking out? Should I race her to ER vet? What do I do?

I am SO mad at this vet. Why would he tell me to give 6 units 2X daily without knowing her BG? Why would someone do that, seems a tad irresponsible if you ask me.

If anyone can tell me what to do, please....
I may as well put the coffee on, it's going to be a long night!
 
First, take a deep breath. Do you have some higher carb wet food - like some with gravy? If so, give her a little and test again in 15 minutes. If no high carb, put a little syrup into the regular carb food. You want to feed him only a few spoonfuls so he will eat if you need him to later.
 
What kind of insulin is it?

Plan on testing again in 15 minutes. And what kind of food do you have on hand? Do you have karo or honey?
 
Thanks, Sue.

At what point did she throw up (how many hours after she ate)?
 
It's PZI.

Please follow sue and Carl's advice. They are very experienced. Please keep checking here and updating and posting her status for us when you do a test etc.
 
I gave her just a few drops of kero, going to test in 10. I do not have any other food on hand but the dry Iams.

I am beginning to question if I can do this, the poor thing wants to run as soon as she sees me.
Going to test, will return with results...
 
You might have to wrap her up in a towel to test. You will have to test for at least the next four hours to keep her safe. If it becomes too difficult, you can consider the ER. It will be expensive but they can take over.
 
You CAN do this! And right now, she's depending on you.

Are you home alone, or is someone there that could make a quick trip to get some gravy-style high carb wet food?

And not to scare you, but is there a local emergency vet you can call and talk to?

Let's see what this number looks like.
 
Don't forget to breathe, and keep calm... She will pick up your nervousness. Remember, you are her parent, you are guiding her on the path to a better life, for her own good! She will thank you for it later once she realizes that little poke is as bad as it gets.

I've seen people mention some people food options for bringing bg up a bit, maybe try some cream cheese, or yogurt? I'm sure there are other things too, but I can't think atm.
I really hope she's ok! {{{H U G S}}}
 
Ok, seems the kero is working a little, it's at 69, should I give more syrup or retest in 15? Should I do this throughout the night? She feels pretty warm, should I be really worried?

Thank you so much!
 
Warm is okay.

What you want to look for is any sign that she's "out of it", like walking like she's drunk or huge pupils.

Give a few drops of karo, but we need to try to get some food in her. Dry food works more slowly to raise the BG. Can you put a little in a dish, put some warm water on it to soften it up and add a drop or two of karo to the mix. We might be able to use that a teaspoon at a time.

Do you have any vanilla ice cream in the freezer by chance?
 
69 is better. You can't relax until at least 6 hours after the shot. It's going to be testing every 15 minutes, giving her little spoonfuls of syrup mixed with food and hoping that the numbers continue to climb or at least say the same.

Symptoms to watch for - disorientation, acting like she can't see, yowling, sleeping and not being able to rouse her easily.
 
I may have ice cream, I'm guessing the 69 isn't good enough, heck, I'll find something that she'll eat, she's very picky.
Is it not good to give more kero?

Her pupils are big, but they always get big when she's mad, and she is mad!
 
The numbers in the cycle continue to go down for 5-7 hours after the shot so you can't relax until after that time frame. And then you need three rising numbers.
 
69 is good, but we want to see 100 or more, because the insulin usually doesn't "peak" until about 5-7 hours after the shot. In this case, high BG is better than dropping lower, and you sure don't want a number lower than the 40s. At that point, our advice is going to be "take her to the ER and bring bottle of karo with you for the ride".
 
I have the only cat that won't eat ice cream. I tried frozen, and melted, no good. I have her another few drops of kero. Will retest in 5, if she lets me next to her.

Should I test every 15 for the next 5-7 hours? I don't mind if that's what I have to do, just not sure.
Also, even if I get her above 100, keep testing if it's inside that 5-7 window, right?
 
If you have any plain meat, poultry, or tuna fish, you can mix small amounts of that with the Karo to add a bit of protein. The Karo will bring up the glucose short term, the meat/poultry start work on stabilizing.

Gravy is nothing more than flour and water mixed together with a little heat to help it soak up. No flour? Bread can be mushed up with a little water, too.

Might want a pot of coffee/tea/cococa to help you stay up.
 
If you have an oral syringe (no needle), you can give 0.5 to 1.0 mL of karo or melted ice cream as needed every 15-20 min.
 
Did you see what I posted earlier about mixing dry with water and karo?

Give a few drops of karo, but we need to try to get some food in her. Dry food works more slowly to raise the BG. Can you put a little in a dish, put some warm water on it to soften it up and add a drop or two of karo to the mix. We might be able to use that a teaspoon at a time.
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If you crush the dry first, it'll soak up faster.
Warming it slightly will hasten that too.
 
Should I test every 15 for the next 5-7 hours? I don't mind if that's what I have to do, just not sure.
Also, even if I get her above 100, keep testing if it's inside that 5-7 window, right?
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No, you won't need to poke her ear every 15 minutes. That will be adjusted based on the numbers you get. If she gets over 100, and we can get some food into her tummy, you won't need to test that often or for 5-7 hours.
 
I've got chicken, and can make gravy.
I have a syring with no needle (for just such an occasion).
I just made her a mix of some dry food and FF appetizer. Not touching it.

Funny thing is she's sitting here watching me freak out like I'm the one that's sick. She's acting like nothing is wrong, literally!

I just ran her BG and it back to 45
 
You may have to offer pea-sized amounts on a finger, or actually put it in her mouth to get her to eat.

Will she eat any of it separately, so you don't have to force all of it?
 
I'm giving her two of her favorite, FF appetizers and dry food, she sniffs it and lays down, but not acting like she doesn't feel good, she's leaving that to me!

I've got her confined to a bedroom since she's not happy with me right now and my house is a series on islands. She could have me doing laps all night.

I keep thinking to myself, what if I had given her the full 6 units?
How many other nights has it been like this that I didn't know about because of this vet?
I'm back to the quilt phase!

Trying chicken now
 
The syrup is vital too. You can rub a teaspoon on her gums or cheeks so she will lick it off. Then see what you can get her to eat in terms of protein.
 
Yes, what Sue said. If she'll eat chicken, that's great. But chicken is pretty much zero carbs and what we want right now is carbs to raise her BG back up.
 
Not much, when I say she is picky, that's an understatement. I've got dry food soaking in warm water, cut up chicken on another dish, all while giving her small amounts of kero.

I have to mention, that you people have to be the most amazing group I've ever met. To be this attentive to someone you've never met, even if it's just for my cats welfare, just amazes me, and I am truly touched.

Thank you

Will test again in 10
 
At 69, she may not be hungry enough to eat. Give her a break for 5 minutes and try again.

Maybe a bit of play with a toy will perk her appetite for you. Sometimes "toss a kibble" gets some hunt/catch/kill/eat behavior going.
 
I keep thinking to myself, what if I had given her the full 6 units?
How many other nights has it been like this that I didn't know about because of this vet?
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Yeah, try not to "go there"...it'll drive you crazy and raise your blood pressure.

How can I say this kindly? Your vet prescribing a starting dose of 6u was insane. The AAHA guidelines recommend no more than 1u to start unless your kitty is really heavy. Not sure what she weighed at diagnosis, but she'd have to weigh 50 pounds or so for that dose to make sense. Thank God you dropped it at least as far down as 3u. But I'm thinking that going forward, 1u makes sense until you have hometested enough to collect the data that shows a higher dose makes sense.

Basically, a starting dose of 6u put your kitty's life at risk, whether your vet wants to accept that or not.


Oh, and it's just not for your cat's welfare. It's for your welfare and sanity too. :-D The day you joined the board, you became a part of the "family". The long-lost sister we never knew we had, so to speak. You're stuck with us now :lol:

Pretty much every one of us was in your shoes on the first day we found this amazing place.
 
Sorry - that slipped by me. But it still may be true that she doesn't feel hungry enough to eat.

Tactics that can help:

Hand feeding

warming food so its stinkier

sprinkling parmesan or any cheese over it

With the Karo, rub it on the gums rather than squirting it in, so it isn't inhaled instead of swallowed.
 
Leah,

I am going to have to drop off. Bob is our night owl and says he can stay on with you. Hope Bj can too.

Will keep you and Jezzi in my thoughts. Just keep following their advice. And if they say it's time for the ER, go.
 
Thank you, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart and the end of Jezzi's tail.

The only reason we discovered diabetes was on a routine office visit in January, she weighed 14.8 lbs, in march she had dropped to 10.4. Thinking he knew what he was talking about, I didn't question it. It just didn't soak in. And I'm the type person who googles everything, but I didn't this time. I don't even know why. I was so caught up in the how's and why I didn't question the how comes.

She actually ate some chicken, after she saw me eat some, monkey see monkey do! Not much, a tablespoon or so. Getting ready to retest.

Thank you Sue
 
in march she had dropped to 10.4.
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Yeah, the standard weight based formula for dosing is .25u per KG of lean body weight.... So that works out to 1.18 units. At the most, 1.25 would have been okay, but since syringes are marked in no smaller than 1 or .5u marks, the logical dose would have been 1u twice a day.

There are occasions where a higher dose may make some sense, but that usually only happens if there is something else going on besides just the simple diabetes. I sure would like to be able to understand where "six units" makes any sort of sense.

The initial diagnosis is overwhelming to the caregiver. I didn't even know diabetes could happen to a cat, so the first few days was pretty much just a haze to me. Don't feel unique in being overwhelmed by it all.
 
A tablespoon of chicken is good.
Keep going with the Karo on the gums; it absorbs faster.
 
I just remember something from when I first started reading your adventure tonight.
FIRST TEST TODAY PRE-food @ 4:00pm. 288
Test right before injection (post-food) 7:30pm. 73
Thinking I had done something wrong, but not sure, I gave her 3 units (instead of 6 like vet prescribed)
Just tested her now, 2.5 hours post insulin and it was 42!
Click to expand...

Did she get 6u this morning?
 
Well, she's at 52.

Please, I understand this is a Monday night and people have to get up for work. You all have been so patient and helpful, and you've given me the knowldge to deal with this tonight. There's no reason we all need to lose sleep tonight.
I went online and got the phone number of the animal ER, so I can call them if she doesn't improve over time. I'm going to keep testing her, and if I don't see improvement within a few hours, I'll be taking a ride.

I've gotten her to eat small hits, I'll keep working on that, and I'll post an update in the morning. Besides, I'll need you all to keep me from blasting that vet! Which I'll be finding a new one first thing.

Thank you all so much. I can't tell you how much this means to me, without you I don't know what I would have done. Now I know what to do and what to watch for. Go to bed, get some rest. I'll be here in the morning to let you know how it went.

Thank you, see this is a good excuse to stay up and read more posts on here, lol!
 
Please keep posting numbers since you will be online anyway. Some of us are up all night with our own sugarcats and will be here keeping an eye out.

Are you using a U40(half the syringe is full) or U100 syringe (tiny little markings)? 6 units on a U40 would have a very long carryover. You might have been getting some overlap from shot to shot.

How much does your cat weigh?
 
Yes, she's been getting 6 since day one! Why? That's what vet put her on
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Because I was going to try to explain what I think went on today.

You tested at 4:00 and got a 288. And then she ate, right?
And 3.5 hours later, you said you got a 73 (and thankfully only shot 3u).

What I think is that the six unit dose from this morning might still not have worn off. Either that, or her pancreas was doing the job nature intended.

At 3.5 hours after eating dry food, the BG should NOT have been lower, especially not 200 points lower. Even if she barfed up some of that food, some of it would have been digested, and all the carbs in it should have raised her BG and she should have been in the 350 or higher range. Not down to the 70s.

So either the morning dose was still pushing the BG down, or the pancreas was. Being that much lower before you gave tonight's shot defies logic.

If it is actually her pancrease that is trying to do the job on her own, then that's even greater evidence that a dose even as high as 3u is too much.

When did you say you were seeing the new vet?


And don't worry about others losing sleep, really. Today was my "Friday". I'm off the next two days so I won't be setting the alarm to wake up tomorrow. It's about 12:30 here, but for me, this is still early. ;-)
You will find that when something like this happens, and people jump in to help, "we" aren't going to bed until you do. It is just the way it works around here. We also have members in pretty much every time zone around the globe, so there is usually somebody online no matter what the hour.
 
I'll be up for at least another hour or two (west coast), so don't worry. You have eyes all over the world helping you at all hours. UK will be up soon, as well. :lol: I haven't interjected yet because everyone else is already doing a great job helping you but I just wanted you to know I'm here to jump in if need be.

Carl & Bob said:
Don't feel unique in being overwhelmed by it all.
Click to expand...

:thumbup I want to frame this somewhere. :lol:
 
The suspense is killing me, what triggered you asking if she had 6 this morning. I only lowered it tonight because I had been reading through a bunch of posts and since she was at 73 got scared by giving her the whole dose. Hind sight I guess I should have waiting to hear from someone before dosing.

I just read your reply, her first test today 430 was 288. Then, she ate, but not dry, the fancy feast appetizer. At 730 I tested her she came up 73 at which point I decided to only give her 3 units. Before the last hour she hadn't had dry since mid-afternoon.
U100

I'll keep updating.
She is acting better right now then is has in days. She's playing ( mostly biting me), taking a bath, and eating a few crunches here and there. Will continue testing and updating.

Do you think her numbers would be so low if I hadn't given her the 6 this morning? Can you sue a vet for malpractice?
 
Yes, you can sue.There is likely a veterinary licensure board where you can report the vet's incompetence, too.

My signature link has Vet Interview Topics.

In the future, please do not give insulin below 200 mg/dL until and unless you have data that show it would be safe to do.
 
Okay so I didn't read it wrong, you tested her at 4:30pm but didn't give her a shot until 730PM? So she was still in the midst of her morning shot when you took the 4:30 test?
 
What a fantastic group of people that I'm proud to say I lost sleep with!

I will be calling right at 9 am to get new appointment. I have no doubt that after they hear my story they will tell me to come right in.

I'm in Florida, this too is early for me, but I guess the drama has gone straight to my head. I've been watching her and she's has been calming me down. She took out a little revenge on my hand, guess she figured if I was going to keep making her bleed she would return the favor.
 
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