Need help looking at dosing and BG numbers

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Lisa & Harry

Lisa & Harry

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Hi, I thought things were getting better with Harry's numbers in general. A lot more numbers in the "blue" range than ever before. But then in the past 10 days or so he's suddenly had really high numbers. He's acting fine, eating fine... His food hasn't changed. I thought maybe the insulin was starting to get less effective since I'd been using it over two months. I got the vet to prescribe a new bottle for me (which is a whole other story) and started the new insulin yesterday. He still had high numbers last night and today. I was really hoping that was the answer. Is it possible that his dose is maybe too high now? Looking back when he had high numbers before it was when the vet had me up his dose to a number which I ended up being way too high.

It's time for his shot now. His PMPS was 339. I'm thinking of giving him just 1 unit, down from the normal 1.25 just to see what happens. I have to be gone for a bit, but will test him again when I get home to see where we're at.

I appreciate any help or advice you guys can offer. Thanks!
 
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Hmmm...that is awfully strange. The numbers have really shot up there. Has Harry been to the vet recently? Might be good to have a check up to rule out any infections or problems there that could cause high numbers.

Anything changed recently? Anything that could cause stress?

Beyond that, I'd suggest running a curve when you can. If we can see what he does throughout the day, it MIGHT help us figure out what's going on. It's possible the dose is too high, but it seems strange to me that it would suddenly make his numbers higher.
 
Hi Lisa - it is awfully strange -as Rachel said - has anything at all changed? Food? anything different in the house?
can you check his urine for ketones? What about his weight?
 
I really can't think of anything that has changed. I just had a thought that maybe it all started with a new batch of test strips. The timing was about right, so I opened a different new container. Got 306 on the strips I am currently using, and 316 on the one I just opened. Then I thought since they all came in the same package, could they both be bad? I brought out my old Reli On meter. Tested myself first to get a feel for it. 104. Tested Harry, 302. So, I guess that wasn't our problem either. Only other thing I can think of is that the last two batches of Fancy Feast I bought at Target. I'd never bought from there before. I had read in a couple of places where people thought they had used certain batches of food that affected the BG numbers. I might pick up some for elsewhere tomorrow just to see. I think I'm grasping though. I can call the vet and see what they think, however, I'm pretty sure his solution will be to up Harry's dose. He wasn't very happy that I had been decreasing it myself without him telling me to do it. I can also run a curve for him on Friday when I'm home during the day. I'll try to get a weight on him although I don't really have a good way to do that. Will also try to test for keytones sometime during the next day. In the meantime I just hate having his numbers up so high.
 
It will be easier to see what's going on after you get the curve. Sometimes cats just need more insulin before they hit the right dose and then the dose can be lowered. @Bobbie And Bubba can tell you about that.
For weighing, try holding him and weighing, then weigh yourself without him and subtract.
 
Aww Lisa, it sounds like you're doing everything right. It may feel like grasping, but you never know...it doesn't hurt to try all the different things that could be different to see if you find a solution. I do think the curve will help. I'm at work Friday, but I'll check in on you if I can during that day and I'll look for your results that night. I know it sucks having his number so high, but hopefully we can figure it all out!

As for the vet...sigh...that's frustrating. I'm lucky in my vet that they figured out that I know what I'm doing and pretty much let me make my own decisions. They didn't bug me about Gypsy's dose, and now, when I go for any reason, they know I'm going to demand a lot of answers. The last time I was there, I saw a new vet and partway through my questions, he asked if I was a nurse. I said nope...just experienced with this! :rolleyes:

We're here for you, Lisa!
 
Thank you guys for all your support! I just tried looking at his teeth. Couldn't see much. He's not very cooperative with that. Everything else he's always so agreeable with, but never his mouth. When he knows it's time for food, he goes out to the living room and sits by where I have his meter for testing. He just purrs away while I test him. ...and give him a good head scratching which he likes a lot too. Anyway, I tested for ketones last night and that was negative. I weighed him and he hasn't lost any weight. He may have gained slightly. Hard to say since I don't have a terribly exact method and don't weigh him regularly.

His PMPS last night was 387. I tested at +2 (360) and +6 (328). Then I couldn't stay up any longer. It's like he's not getting any insulin with those numbers. His AMPS this morning was 455. I'll be checking him again in about 45 min which will be his +2.

I'm contemplating calling the vet to get their opinion. But I'm pretty sure he'll just tell me to send him a curve and then increase his dose.

Is it possible I got a bad bottle of insulin? I just started this bottle Tuesday. I'd be more likely to think that if he had normal numbers prior to the new bottle. But I got the new bottle thinking his last bottle was losing its effectiveness. It was over 2 months old. Maybe his dose does need to go up? Have you ever seen that where the doses have been decreasing, but then suddenly need to go up again. I don't know. It's just so frustrating.

Thanks again for all your help! Harry and I appreciate it!
 
I do wonder if the insulin is not good. Does it have a expiration date on it? I am thinking it might have been sitting around the vet's office for awhile?

I think you could try to argue you want a new vial. That this one is not working like the previous vial, and since the numbers changed immediately with this vial, you suspect it, not that he isn't getting enough insulin. I don't know if that will work but it might be worth a try?
 
Sue - his numbers started going up before the started using the new vial - so looking at the spreadsheet, it doesn't appear to be bad insulin
Are you thinking about raising his dose until you figure it out?
 
Shoot, I thought there was a direct correlation. (I still would check out the expiration date)

Yes, then I would probably raise the dose though my gut says there is likely something else going on....
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I do wonder if the insulin is not good. Does it have a expiration date on it? I am thinking it might have been sitting around the vet's office for awhile?

I think you could try to argue you want a new vial. That this one is not working like the previous vial, and since the numbers changed immediately with this vial, you suspect it, not that he isn't getting enough insulin. I don't know if that will work but it might be worth a try?
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Part of the trouble is that his number were starting to get a bit high right before the new bottle, which is why I asked the vet to prescribe a new bottle; think my old one was getting old. Also, I haven't bought any insulin from the vet since my very first bottle. He charges $200. At Costco I can get it for $127. They've told me they won't take a return under any circumstance. Once I walk out the door with it it's mine. The vet would probably be happy to sell me a new bottle. Just not sure it will help since I can't say for certain the old bottle was bad and that's why I was getting higher numbers for a few days prior to the new bottle. I guess I should probably call the vet and get his opinion. I think my normal vet isn't back till Monday due to vacation. Last week I talked indirectly to the main vet at the clinic. Worked thru one of his helpers to get the new prescription. I'm pretty sure they've labeled me a "troublesome patient." I won't buy their prescription food or their insulin; and I change doses without their permission. He also told me once that I may be causing his numbers to be higher because I'm stressing Harry out by testing him twice a day. He thinks that's totally unnecessary.
 
Then doesn't look like your vet would be helpful...

Does the vial have an expiration date?

So how about increasing to 1.5 on a cycle when you can get some mid cycle numbers - especially in that +5/7 hour range. Maybe that will help us figure this out.
 
Expiration date is Aug 2017. So it should be good. His +2 was 354. So that's down 100 from this morning. We'll see if he goes any lower. Can't ever seem to get him out of the 300's lately.
 
I gave him 1.5. Might have been a smidge over. It's hard to get fractions with my U40's. I waited till +6 to take a reading since I'd been poking his poor ear all day. It was at 263. I was really hoping for a bit lower, but we'll see what he looks like in the morning.
 
Well, I've given Harry 1.75 units for the last 4 shots. It seems to be helping some. His numbers are a bit lower, but not back to where they were a couple weeks ago. I made an appointment with the vet for tomorrow afternoon. Just to try to rule out any infections, teeth issues, or anything like that. We'll see how that goes. I've also learned over the last few days that Harry has a built in glucose meter. His ears. Very hot when his BG is high. Much cooler when his numbers are down. I can tell how he's doing throughout the day by feeling his ears. :)
 
Wow, that's pretty interesting about the ears! That's a nice way to do a quick check without having to prick. :)

Let us know how it goes at the vet.
 
Hi, here's my update from the vet. I didn't see the vet I've seen in the past for Harry since he was on vacation. I think I will continue to see this new vet though in the future. He seemed more willing to discuss things with me rather than dictate. I was there for at least an hour talking with him. He said Harry looks really good. If he didn't know he was diabetic he'd think he had nothing wrong with him.
He said as far as dosing goes, he'd like me to leave the dose at my 1.75 right now and watch the numbers for another week or so. He said since he's not drinking and peeing more than normal, he's not terribly concerned yet. He's occasionally seen cats leave what looks to be their proper dose suddenly go up to a little higher one. He thinks Harry's number will end up around 2.2. Why? not sure, that's just his guess I think. He said he thought I was doing a good job, but there were a couple of things he would like to see me do differently. He thinks I shouldn't be adjusting the dose so often based on his BG numbers before his shot. Unless he's super low, he thinks giving him his normal dose should be fine. He says it takes a cats body a little bit of time to adjust to new doses and he thinks it may do more harm than good if I keep adjusting. His other item he'd like me to change is his food. I think we've agreed to disagree on this one most likely. He doesn't like Fancy Feast at all. He thinks most commercial brands of cat food aren't consistent enough with the breakdown of the ingredients. (not sure I put that right) He thinks it's too high in fat too. He doesn't mind my Young Again Zero Carb food that I have and would rather I try to feed him mostly that. Or, the Science Diet M/D. I asked about the high carb content I saw on the M/D and they said it was the good types of carbs and also that the fiber content in it was very beneficial. Overall, if I fed Harry a more consistent food with lower fat and high protein, he thinks I'd see more consistent results. I did bring home a small bag of the Science Diet M/D. I can bring it back for a full refund for any reason. I'm going to try a couple days with the Young Again, then a couple of days with the M/D and see what it does to his numbers. (With some Fancy Feast in there too, just a little less during this trial period.) I also told him I wanted to switch to a human meter because the price of the Alpha Trak strips is ridiculous. My other vet didn't approve. This vet was fine with it as long as up front, I do some side by side comparisons to get a good idea of how to convert from one meter to the other. So, I think that's it. We'll see how things go I guess.
 
Forgot this. He's also seemed totally fine with me testing as much as I am. The other vet thought it was way too much to be testing twice a day. This vet is fine with it but really likes the mid cycle ones every so often to see how things are working. He doesn't believe doing curves in the vet's office is accurate at all (because of the stress on the cat) and much prefers home testing.
 
Hmmm...does sound like this vet is easier to work with.

We do have a separate SS for human meters...may want to get that one up for when you switch to the human meter. I do love to hear a vet say that stress at the vet's office makes those numbers less accurate! It's nice to have vets agree with us.

As for food...well...I've never met one who goes for the low carb list we use. They all suggest prescription diets. If you do use the new food at home for a few days, I'd be sure to get some tests in (using the AT since that's what you've been using). That way, you can show the vet that this raised Harry's numbers and then say that you aren't interested in using that food since your other food works better. Hopefully that will convince him. In the end, if you have to agree to disagree, that's something small at least.
 
Justyn said:
Any update on Harry? I'm having similar issues with my cat..
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Hi, unfortunately no. His numbers are still all over. I up'd his dose a couple of weeks ago thinking I'd see a difference, and his numbers would go down some. But I'm really not seeing that at all. I'm going to try to get some mid cycle numbers tomorrow as best I can. I've been debating raising his does again to see what happens. I've also been thinking about feeding him only the dry M/D for a few days so that his food is totally consistent. I didn't see a big difference in his numbers using the Fancy Feast and M/D vs. Fancy Feast and Young Again. I had expected to see much higher numbers on the M/D since the carbs are high. But I didn't really see that. My only other thought at the moment is getting a new bottle of insulin. I don't think that should be the issue though. Not sure my vet would go along with that at this point either.

Justyn, do you have a spreadsheet out there for your cat? Was he doing well, but then started getting odd numbers too?
 
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Lisa, if you could get some midcycle numbers this weekend, we might be able to help. For instance, it would let us see if he is higher and flat - that would mean the dose should be increased. Or does he drop down midcycle and bounce for preshot tests?

I would definitely stick with low carb. You may not see the change right away, but consistently we see lower levels with low carb.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
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Lisa, if you could get some midcycle numbers this weekend, we might be able to help. For instance, it would let us see if he is higher and flat - that would mean the dose should be increased. Or does he drop down midcycle and bounce for preshot tests?

I would definitely stick with low carb. You may not see the change right away, but consistently we see lower levels with low carb.
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OK, thanks! I just realized I can still get some good midcycle numbers tonight too. So I'll do that and then see what I can do tomorrow too.
 
Gotcha,
Lisa & Harry said:
Hi, unfortunately no. His numbers are still all over. I up'd his dose a couple of weeks ago thinking I'd see a difference, and his numbers would go down some. But I'm really not seeing that at all. I'm going to try to get some mid cycle numbers tomorrow as best I can. I've been debating raising his does again to see what happens. I've also been thinking about feeding him only the dry M/D for a few days so that his food is totally consistent. I didn't see a big difference in his numbers using the Fancy Feast and M/D vs. Fancy Feast and Young Again. I had expected to see much higher numbers on the M/D since the carbs are high. But I didn't really see that. My only other thought at the moment is getting a new bottle of insulin. I don't think that should be the issue though. Not sure my vet would go along with that at this point either.

Justyn, do you have a spreadsheet out there for your cat? Was he doing well, but then started getting odd numbers too?
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Awwww poor guy! Sounds like my situation, any food i switch him to hasn't made his BGs anymore regular... actually has made it more all-over-the-place... From what you mentioned about the numbers already being high before you got the NEW bottle of insulin - I just can't imagine that would be what's make the fluctuation so great. Has he been ruled out for any infections/pancreatitis/etc?

and I'll be making his spreadsheet hopefully tonight and will definitely compare ours!!
 
Justyn said:
Gotcha,




Awwww poor guy! Sounds like my situation, any food i switch him to hasn't made his BGs anymore regular... actually has made it more all-over-the-place... From what you mentioned about the numbers already being high before you got the NEW bottle of insulin - I just can't imagine that would be what's make the fluctuation so great. Has he been ruled out for any infections/pancreatitis/etc?

and I'll be making his spreadsheet hopefully tonight and will definitely compare ours!!
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Yes, I had him at the vet not that long ago and the vet said that if he didn't know he was diabetic, he'd say he was a perfectly healthy cat. He's acting very normal, appetite is good.
 
Wow! So sorry to hear... My guy has bad teeth so I was worried infection or pain was causing his erratic numbers but they are starting to level out after some diet change. How often do you feed your diabetic furball?
 
Justyn said:
Wow! So sorry to hear... My guy has bad teeth so I was worried infection or pain was causing his erratic numbers but they are starting to level out after some diet change. How often do you feed your diabetic furball?
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My cats were always grazers, so when Harry was diagnosed, I stopped leaving food out all the time. Feeding them twice a day just didn't seem to work well. They didn't eat enough at one sitting, then would just bug me relentlessly a couple hours later. So what I started doing was feeding them at the morning shot time (6:30 am). Then usually a little more around lunch time. Then feeding at pm shot time (6:30 pm), and a little more a few hours after that. Now that my kids are back in school, I can't do the lunch time feeding, so I've been feeding them at the morning shot time, then giving them a bit more before I go to work. This makes for really hungry cats by the time I'm home and they bug me non stop until pm shot time. I'm still feeding them in the pm at shot time and a few hours after. Even giving them that last bit around 9 pm or so Harry is waking me up around 4:30 am and bugging me off and on till 6:30 am most mornings. I'm a tired cat mom.

I've actually been thinking about trying to feed them just twice a day now. I suppose they would get used to eating enough in the morning so they wouldn't be hungry so soon. I also worry that if they don't eat it all, because they're not used to eating that much at one sitting, Harry will just come back an finish more than his share later. But again, maybe they'd get used to eating enough right away when I feed them. They're probably a lot like me and just eat when they're bored sometimes.

To complicate things, having one assertive diabetic cat and one passive non diabetic cat, Harry tends to try to eat the other cats food after he's gobbled up most of his. I have to watch over him or feed the other cat separately when I can.

I have two timed feeders I could use, but it would be hard to say who would be eating the food during the day.

That was a much longer answer than I'm sure you expected. :)
 
You might post on Health and see what other multi owner cats do. We have people with 13+ cats.

And remember, they won't starve if they are fed twice daily. They may not like it, but they will get used to it. The best one I heard was that the person took long showers when they started complaining - with the door shut, of course. With some cats, it makes a difference in levels downward not to free feed. (Not all, but some)

How are his numbers? Not seeing any recent. Also, are you trying to convert a human meter into pet meter values each time? I'd encourage you not to. The numbers aren't precise; we don't have any precise comparisons except a hypo range. But OTJ ranges will be the same. :p Just figure you are erring on the up side?
 
Lisa & Harry said:
My cats were always grazers, so when Harry was diagnosed, I stopped leaving food out all the time. Feeding them twice a day just didn't seem to work well. They didn't eat enough at one sitting, then would just bug me relentlessly a couple hours later. So what I started doing was feeding them at the morning shot time (6:30 am). Then usually a little more around lunch time. Then feeding at pm shot time (6:30 pm), and a little more a few hours after that. Now that my kids are back in school, I can't do the lunch time feeding, so I've been feeding them at the morning shot time, then giving them a bit more before I go to work. This makes for really hungry cats by the time I'm home and they bug me non stop until pm shot time. I'm still feeding them in the pm at shot time and a few hours after. Even giving them that last bit around 9 pm or so Harry is waking me up around 4:30 am and bugging me off and on till 6:30 am most mornings. I'm a tired cat mom.

I've actually been thinking about trying to feed them just twice a day now. I suppose they would get used to eating enough in the morning so they wouldn't be hungry so soon. I also worry that if they don't eat it all, because they're not used to eating that much at one sitting, Harry will just come back an finish more than his share later. But again, maybe they'd get used to eating enough right away when I feed them. They're probably a lot like me and just eat when they're bored sometimes.

To complicate things, having one assertive diabetic cat and one passive non diabetic cat, Harry tends to try to eat the other cats food after he's gobbled up most of his. I have to watch over him or feed the other cat separately when I can.

I have two timed feeders I could use, but it would be hard to say who would be eating the food during the day.

That was a much longer answer than I'm sure you expected. :)
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Definitely not too long! I love the feedback! I am in the same situation, I have 1 diabetic cat (who used to want food every second of the day) and 1 non-diabetic cat who couldn't really care less! They were always grazers too, I'd always leave a bowl of kibble out so they could eat when they want, so it was definitely a transition for both of them (and me!). When Sock's first got diagnosed, I had him eating 4x/day (about every 6 hours) but getting 3/4 can with his AM shot and PM shot, and 1/4 can at the halfway mark through the day (luckily I had a roommate who would come home everyday for lunch). It seems like that 1/4 can 6 hours in really caused his 'before shot' numbers to really spike, as they've leveled out so much since that I've had to lower his dose!

Up until switching my diabetic bub to feeding 2x/day, he would do the same thing in waking me up at 4/5/6 am, staring at me while I sleep, waiting for me to wake up for food! I would give the 2x/day feeding a go, as Sock's sugars have leveled out SO much, and he has NOT ONCE bugged me while I'm sleeping! It took a while for him to get used to it, especially because 1 can (5.5.oz) is A LOT in comparison to the 3/4 he was used to - so patience is key as it can take him about an hour to graze/finish the can - AND I have to make sure each one finishes their own food, so I'm in the same boat as you. I'd be worried with the timed feeders too as not seeing/having control if one eats the others food, but maybe feeding Harry with his shots ONLY may help, especially if he is more sensitive to carbs than most other DM cats (as I think mine is).
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
You might post on Health and see what other multi owner cats do. We have people with 13+ cats.

And remember, they won't starve if they are fed twice daily. They may not like it, but they will get used to it. The best one I heard was that the person took long showers when they started complaining - with the door shut, of course. With some cats, it makes a difference in levels downward not to free feed. (Not all, but some)

How are his numbers? Not seeing any recent. Also, are you trying to convert a human meter into pet meter values each time? I'd encourage you not to. The numbers aren't precise; we don't have any precise comparisons except a hypo range. But OTJ ranges will be the same. :p Just figure you are erring on the up side?
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Not sure why you're not seeing recent numbers on Harry's sheet. I see them. I just added todays too. Let me know if you still don't see anything recent.

I did try to use a human meter and do some comparisons. I have that data on a second tab in my workbook. I couldn't find a consistent ratio between the two. I'd really like to be able to rely on the human meter, the strips are sooo much cheaper. But until Harry is better regulated, I don't feel comfortable. So I'm still using the AlphaTrak.
 
See them now. Not sure why he get some yellow pre shots and some red. Today's cycle might be flatter because last night could have been low. I wonder if there are more lows in there somewhere.

I hope you can get a curve some time soon. Those mid cycle numbers would really help.
 
Justyn said:
Definitely not too long! I love the feedback! I am in the same situation, I have 1 diabetic cat (who used to want food every second of the day) and 1 non-diabetic cat who couldn't really care less! They were always grazers too, I'd always leave a bowl of kibble out so they could eat when they want, so it was definitely a transition for both of them (and me!). When Sock's first got diagnosed, I had him eating 4x/day (about every 6 hours) but getting 3/4 can with his AM shot and PM shot, and 1/4 can at the halfway mark through the day (luckily I had a roommate who would come home everyday for lunch). It seems like that 1/4 can 6 hours in really caused his 'before shot' numbers to really spike, as they've leveled out so much since that I've had to lower his dose!

Up until switching my diabetic bub to feeding 2x/day, he would do the same thing in waking me up at 4/5/6 am, staring at me while I sleep, waiting for me to wake up for food! I would give the 2x/day feeding a go, as Sock's sugars have leveled out SO much, and he has NOT ONCE bugged me while I'm sleeping! It took a while for him to get used to it, especially because 1 can (5.5.oz) is A LOT in comparison to the 3/4 he was used to - so patience is key as it can take him about an hour to graze/finish the can - AND I have to make sure each one finishes their own food, so I'm in the same boat as you. I'd be worried with the timed feeders too as not seeing/having control if one eats the others food, but maybe feeding Harry with his shots ONLY may help, especially if he is more sensitive to carbs than most other DM cats (as I think mine is).
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It does sound like we have very similar situations. I did try just feeding them first thing this morning and then just a bit ago when I got home from work. Boy were they acting hungry when I got here. I was surprised too to see a pm preshot number higher than it's been the last few days. Thought I'd be in for a lower number since he hadn't eaten since morning.

In the past when I've given them more than half a can at a time, they'd eat so fast they'd eat so fast one of them at least would throw up. So we'll have to work up to a full meal maybe. When I look at what the can says to feed the cats per day, it works out to about 4 cans per cat per day. (3 oz. cans) They're good sized cats, about 15 lbs each. More like small dogs. Vet says they could be about 13lbs, but he's not too upset with 15 lbs. Does that seem like too much food? I was reading yesterday that most cat food cans advise more food than the cats really need. Are you feeding your cat 2 5.5 oz cans a day?

Oh, and you're lucky Socks just stares at you. I have two cats batting at my face, chewing on my fingers or ears. Harry loves to lick my hair and I really don't like that. I've resorted to putting on a hat in the morning sometimes. He doesn't like licking that. When none of that gets me out of bed he looks for electrical cords to chew on. And when they're taking a break from trying to wake me up, he just lays by my head and purrs away really really loud. :)
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
See them now. Not sure why he get some yellow pre shots and some red. Today's cycle might be flatter because last night could have been low. I wonder if there are more lows in there somewhere.

I hope you can get a curve some time soon. Those mid cycle numbers would really help.
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I'll try to get some tonight. This past weekend was really busy and I just wasn't home enough.
 
Wow that totally stinks that his preshot bg was higher than normal.... As i JUST tested my bub for his preshot bg right now, i actually got a much higher number (469) than what ive been getting since ive changed him to eating 2x/day... BUT i actually lowered Socks insulin dose from 3 to 2.5 because i had a hypo-level number on Monday.... And now, this?! I'd barely lowered it and it shot up by about 200 points more than usual lately... No change in food batch even... Completely confused and not sure if i should raise it back to 3 or wait a bit longer... Any advice?

Do you ever feel like when you shoot, it felt like it went more in muscle (my cat flinches more) than perfectly under the skin? This morning i think im remembering it felt more in the muscle... Wondering if its causing that fluxation but i have watched so damn much so i think ive got it down as well as anyone else... Unless hes just that much more sensitive... Ughh..


And from the post above, is it really a thing that if cats sugars get too low, they spike up extremely? (without giving any syrup, etc)... Ive never heard of that in humans so havent thought it possible for cats..
 
Hi @Justyn it's true, cats can bounce when their BG gets too low or drops too fast, their bodies can release glucose and actually cause a spike in numbers. These higher numbers can last several cycles, making it hard to know what to dose. I tried to check your SS, but got an error message, if you can fix that and start a new thread, Sue can help you with your dosing for Socks.
 
I've included it below. And wow, I just found this here on another forum:

"Any hypoglycemic episode, whether or not you observed it, may be followed by some degree of rebound for some unknown length of time. It will show up as BG spikes happening before the insulin tails off, if you're doing blood tests"

And that's exactly when I'm at least seeing these high numbers.... Does anyone know when the average NADIR is? I'm hoping to get him at +6, +8 and +10 this weekend so see what his lowest point is...


<iframe src="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hDsH2Gw/pubhtml?widget=true&amp;headers=false"></iframe>
 
I can see your SS! Nadir is usually 4-7 hours post shot. If you start that new thread, it will get Sues attention and she can give you dosing advice for Socks.
 
So maybe both of our cats are bouncing? I had some nicer numbers last night when I was testing. These big pmps were surprising. So is this something where we need to wait it out and they'll stop bouncing and we can see true numbers? This is confusing and frustrating all at the same time.
 
Justyn said:
Wow that totally stinks that his preshot bg was higher than normal.... As i JUST tested my bub for his preshot bg right now, i actually got a much higher number (469) than what ive been getting since ive changed him to eating 2x/day... BUT i actually lowered Socks insulin dose from 3 to 2.5 because i had a hypo-level number on Monday.... And now, this?! I'd barely lowered it and it shot up by about 200 points more than usual lately... No change in food batch even... Completely confused and not sure if i should raise it back to 3 or wait a bit longer... Any advice?

Do you ever feel like when you shoot, it felt like it went more in muscle (my cat flinches more) than perfectly under the skin? This morning i think im remembering it felt more in the muscle... Wondering if its causing that fluxation but i have watched so damn much so i think ive got it down as well as anyone else... Unless hes just that much more sensitive... Ughh..


And from the post above, is it really a thing that if cats sugars get too low, they spike up extremely? (without giving any syrup, etc)... Ive never heard of that in humans so havent thought it possible for cats..
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I know exactly what you mean about getting the shot right. I think Harry's skin has gotten tougher/thicker/something on the scruff of his neck. It used to be much easier to give his shot there. Now I move around a bit trying to get a nice spot where his skin tents up nice when I pull it up. And yes, I do wonder if sometimes I'm not getting the insulin under the skin as well as I should. I think I'm pretty much getting it right, but totally get how you're feeling.
 
This is something I struggle with. Teasel reacts in all sites except for the scruff area. Combine that with my very weak hands that make holding a good pinch impossible, and I'm very limited in what I can do. It might occasionally result in poor absorption but it's the best I can manage. We can only do what we can do ...
 
Yeah, I change up the site every shot and never go into the scruff of the neck after reading about poor absorption at that site due to lack of blood flow... It definitely just stinks because I'm trying to eliminate all of the variables but there are just too many..
 
I found this site last night that was interesting. http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_Monitoring_Somogyi.aspx

Diagnosing Somogyi effect
A blood glucose curve can help detect a Somogyi effect and confirm that a cat’s insulin dose needs to be reduced.

Any of the following blood glucose curves can be suggestive of the Somogyi effect:

  • Hypoglycemia (low nadir) followed by rebound hyperglycemia.
  • A rapid decrease in glycemia with an adequate nadir followed by rebound hyperglycemia.
  • Persistently high blood glucose values with no discernible nadir (rebound hyperglycemia can persist for a few days following the hypoglycemic event).
Do you think that last one might fit what I'm seeing in Harry's numbers?
 
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