Need help determining first dose

Daddy Jack's Mommy (GA)

Daddy Jack's Mommy (GA)

Very Active Member
Edited to add: I removed all dry food and have been giving him only FF since Sunday night (a full 5 days now).
Edited again to add: I just gave Jack his first shot of half a unit. When is it OK to increase it to one unit (providing his BG is 200)?


Hello All. Jack was diagnosed last Friday, and it was confirmed on Sunday with a fructosamine test. His BG was over 400 and his fructosamine was over 700. I removed dry food and have given him only FF Classics. His insulin just came today, so he’s had no injections yet. I tried all week long to get his BG, but was unable to draw enough blood to get a reading. I finally did it this morning, and then again right now! This morning, it was 155. Right now, it was 222. The vet wants him on 2 units twice a day. I’ve read here that I should go slow and start low. What should I give him after I feed him now? Will .5 unit be sufficient to begin, or should I start with 1 unit?

I’ve yet to do a spreadsheet, but I’ll figure it out this weekend and hopefully have it up in the next 2-3 days.

I’m so grateful that I found my way here.

~ Carolyn
 
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Hello, and welcome! I'm glad you found your way here too! When was Jack's last bite of kibble? He's really kind of on the edge with those numbers, and I'm not sure I would be comfortable giving him insulin until you are more confident you'll be able to get tests. Our "no shot" number for beginners is 200. He's at 222 right now which is sort of high enough, but was at 155 without insulin earlier today.
 
Djamila said:
Hello, and welcome! I'm glad you found your way here too! When was Jack's last bite of kibble? He's really kind of on the edge with those numbers, and I'm not sure I would be comfortable giving him insulin until you are more confident you'll be able to get tests. Our "no shot" number for beginners is 200. He's at 222 right now which is sort of high enough, but was at 155 without insulin earlier today.
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He's gobbling down his food even as we speak.
 
He's gobbling down the Fancy Feast? When did he last eat kibble/higher carb food? I'm trying to figure out how much time he's had on low-carb only.
 
[QUOTE=" I'm not sure I would be comfortable giving him insulin until you are more confident you'll be able to get tests. [/QUOTE]
I don't know if he would tolerate frequent testing quite yet, but I'm fairly comfortable doing it with him. He's lost 5 pounds since Oct, and his back legs look pretty bad. I'm ready to do anything I can to help him.
 
Djamila said:
He's gobbling down the Fancy Feast? When did he last eat kibble/higher carb food? I'm trying to figure out how much time he's had on low-carb only.
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I removed all dry and have been giving him FF since Sunday night. But I see where you're going with this... Maybe I should wait?
 
It is possible that the food change may be enough to get him regulated @Djamila ... thoughts on this.? I’d watch him ad try to test AM/PM and one mid cycle to see how his levels stay throughout the day.
 
Lisa and little said:
It is possible that the food change may be enough to get him regulated @Djamila ... thoughts on this.? I’d watch him ad try to test AM/PM and one mid cycle to see how his levels stay throughout the day.
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I did just give him 1/2 unit, and I'll watch him closely. Tomorrow, I'll test him a few times during the day. I'd be so happy if the low carb could do the trick!
 
More than just watching him closely, I would really recommend you get a test in - about three hours after the shot time, and then if it's below 100, set an alarm to get another test six hours after the insulin. As Lisa said, he may be able to get himself into a healthy range with a few more days on low carb food. So be careful with the insulin until we know what he's going to do.
 
Djamila said:
More than just watching him closely, I would really recommend you get a test in - about three hours after the shot time, and then if it's below 100, set an alarm to get another test six hours after the insulin. As Lisa said, he may be able to get himself into a healthy range with a few more days on low carb food. So be careful with the insulin until we know what he's going to do.
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I'll test him in 3 hours.
Thank you.
 
Regarding testing, it does get easier -- as you've already noticed! -- as you do it more and capillaries form. Warming the ear with a small sock of uncooked rice (maybe a little smaller than a golf ball? just the size to wrap the ear around) that's been microwaved for about 30 seconds or so helps tremendously as well. And also, if you have any low carb treats that you can bribe him with (a treat before, a treat after, and only give those treats at test time) can do wonders to "train" him. Djamila turned us on to these minnows -- and Josie is crazy for them!
 
Jenna Josie said:
Regarding testing, it does get easier -- as you've already noticed! -- as you do it more and capillaries form. Warming the ear with a small sock of uncooked rice (maybe a little smaller than a golf ball? just the size to wrap the ear around) that's been microwaved for about 30 seconds or so helps tremendously as well. And also, if you have any low carb treats that you can bribe him with (a treat before, a treat after, and only give those treats at test time) can do wonders to "train" him. Djamila turned us on to these minnows -- and Josie is crazy for them!
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I can't believe what a good boy he's been! The problem was that I just wasn't able to get enough blood to test him with. I tried, but it was a no-go until this morning (and then again tonight). I think he may have already grown some capillaries from me poking him this week. Also, I think I've been afraid of hurting him until this morning. I just felt more confident.
 
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Jenna Josie said:
Regarding testing, it does get easier -- as you've already noticed! -- as you do it more and capillaries form. Warming the ear with a small sock of uncooked rice (maybe a little smaller than a golf ball? just the size to wrap the ear around) that's been microwaved for about 30 seconds or so helps tremendously as well. And also, if you have any low carb treats that you can bribe him with (a treat before, a treat after, and only give those treats at test time) can do wonders to "train" him. Djamila turned us on to these minnows -- and Josie is crazy for them!
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Believe it or not, I don't own a microwave so I can't do that rice thing. But I have put a hot, wet paper towel in a plastic bag, and that worked really well. As far as those yummy looking treats, I'm going to order those! And I will use them only for his BG testing. That's a great idea!
 
Re: the minnows . . . order the "for dogs" bag. They're the exact same as the "for cats," but somehow still less expensive . . . :rolleyes:
 
Daddy Jack's Mommy said:
I just gave Jack his first shot of half a unit. When is it OK to increase it to one unit (providing his BG is 200)?
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It can take a couple/few days to really see the full impact of an insulin dose. So, don't be quick to increase the dose, especially since his numbers are not that high to begin with. Because he is so 'border line', it is very important to keep testing. Nadir (lowest point in the cycle) usually occurs somewhere between +4 and +8 with ProZinc (but can vary even from that). So, if you can get a test or two in during each mid-cycle period, varying the times, you can start to figure out about when nadir is occurring for him and how low he is going. You have to know how low the dose is taking him in order to know whether the dose needs adjusting or not. It will also be helpful for you to figure out when onset occurs (when the insulin starts having impact). Knowing how low the dose takes him and when it starts to have impact is valuable information when deciding whether or not to give a shot on somewhat lower pre-shot numbers and whether to give the full dose or reduce.

I hope you get that spreadsheet going soon. It is very important in managing all of this.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
It can take a couple/few days to really see the full impact of an insulin dose. So, don't be quick to increase the dose, especially since his numbers are not that high to begin with. Because he is so 'border line', it is very important to keep testing. Nadir (lowest point in the cycle) usually occurs somewhere between +4 and +8 with ProZinc (but can vary even from that). So, if you can get a test or two in during each mid-cycle period, varying the times, you can start to figure out about when nadir is occurring for him and how low he is going. You have to know how low the dose is taking him in order to know whether the dose needs adjusting or not. It will also be helpful for you to figure out when onset occurs (when the insulin starts having impact). Knowing how low the dose takes him and when it starts to have impact is valuable information when deciding whether or not to give a shot on somewhat lower pre-shot numbers and whether to give the full dose or reduce.

I hope you get that spreadsheet going soon. It is very important in managing all of this.
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I was unable to get enough blood to test him this morning, so no insulin shot. Now I'm concerned that I won't be able to monitor his BG the way I should if his BG is still low tonight (providing I get enough blood). I was confident last night because I thought maybe I crossed that barrier of not being able to get a reading. But if it's only 222 again tonight, I'm not sure if I should give him insulin if I can't be positive that I can monitor his BG. I'm frustrated because i really want to get him started on regulating his BG with insulin, if needed. Also, he fought me this morning, and he was acting a little frightened after. That made me feel so bad. I know he needs this, so I'll keep doing it. But Jack was abused before i rescued him, and it took a very long time for him to trust me the way that he does now.
 
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FurBabiesMama said:
It can take a couple/few days to really see the full impact of an insulin dose. So, don't be quick to increase the dose, especially since his numbers are not that high to begin with. Because he is so 'border line', it is very important to keep testing. Nadir (lowest point in the cycle) usually occurs somewhere between +4 and +8 with ProZinc (but can vary even from that). So, if you can get a test or two in during each mid-cycle period, varying the times, you can start to figure out about when nadir is occurring for him and how low he is going. You have to know how low the dose is taking him in order to know whether the dose needs adjusting or not. It will also be helpful for you to figure out when onset occurs (when the insulin starts having impact). Knowing how low the dose takes him and when it starts to have impact is valuable information when deciding whether or not to give a shot on somewhat lower pre-shot numbers and whether to give the full dose or reduce.

I hope you get that spreadsheet going soon. It is very important in managing all of this.
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This is a wonderful explanation. Thank you. I won't even consider raising it until I know I'll be able to monitor his BG. I'm hoping to get the spreadsheet up by tomorrow.
 
If you're having trouble getting a test, take a break, give Jack a treat and some love, do something else for a few minutes, and then try again. Also, make sure you are adding as much extra water as you possibly can to his food. When a cat is in high numbers like this, they are usually dehydrated and that makes it harder to get a test done.

If it's time to eat and you can't get a test because he's hungry and getting the pre-meal wiggles, then try giving him a tablespoon of food, and then doing the test. If you test within ten minutes or so of eating, the food won't have had time to impact his BG yet, and he should be calmer which will help you get the test done.
 
Djamila said:
If you're having trouble getting a test, take a break, give Jack a treat and some love, do something else for a few minutes, and then try again. Also, make sure you are adding as much extra water as you possibly can to his food. When a cat is in high numbers like this, they are usually dehydrated and that makes it harder to get a test done.
If it's time to eat and you can't get a test because he's hungry and getting the pre-meal wiggles, then try giving him a tablespoon of food, and then doing the test. If you test within ten minutes or so of eating, the food won't have had time to impact his BG yet, and he should be calmer which will help you get the test done.
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I had no idea that he could eat a bit before his shot (as long as it's only 10 minutes before). This may help for those times when I know he's antsy because he's hungry. And Jack is ALWAYS a hungry little boy.
 
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