Need emotional support please

[elsa&juju2022]

Hi everyone,

I am at the end of my rope and about to go crazy. No joke.
This is my journey and I would appreciate it if you can read it and tell me what i'm doing right or wrong. I will welcome any criticism. I am just living in a state of constant fear.


My 14 year old rescue has been diagnosed with Diabetes for 1 week and keeps getting skinnier. Doctor glued a glucose monitor to his back and told me to give him 2 units of insulin after eating.

FYI, i hate needles and drawing blood and faint when I see needles. I somehow mastered the injections and kept scanning him through the night. His glucose level went below 4 and I gave him maple syrup.

Even though he had a cone on, he managed to pull the monitor off and tear his skin off. Hence, I'm keeping the cone on and he freaking out. I tried giving him Sugar Gold by Pet Well Being and it didn't lower his levels after 3 days. He kept getting skinner and more frail. I've been giving him 0.5 units of Insulin and increased it to 0.75 units this afternoon.

Seems like the doc's 2 unit was waaaaay too much for his frail body.
I haven't done the glucose curve and will probably do it in a few days once I get a hang of this. I haven't slept for a week and am going crazy.
Am I gonna kill him if I make one mistake and give him too little or too much if he hasn't eaten enough? Is he gonna die soon?
What can I do to help him?

Food: Wellness cans ( 1 can 2 times a day)
Insulin: Caninsulin by Merck
Snack: Freeze dried chicken breath
Water: water fountain and change it twice a day
Kidney: Kidney Gold drops by Pet Well being ( they healed his CKD 5 years ago)
Comfort: he has access to bed, balcony and all the best places

Please say something to calm me down or tell me what i'm doing wrong. Is he gonna make it? I love him like noone else.

Thank you for reading my sob story

 

[Cali S]

Thank you for your response
I’m using CanInsulin by Merick

As far as I’ve been able to tell in my time here, CanInsulin is not really recommended for cats these days. There are a lot of cats here (my kitty included) who are being treated using Lantus (which has a proven record of getting cats into remission) and a number who use Prozinc. Can you talk to your vet about switching?

The users here are very data driven. If you look on this page there are lots of tips here for getting started and helping us to help you!

[url]https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/[/URL]

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Elsa
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information

• Add info we need to help you:
  • Caregiver & kitty's name
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

I'll tag a vetsulin/ caninsulin user for you
We feed our cats more than just twice a day, feed Juju a bigger meal at AMPS
You need to test first, feed ,then wait 30 minutes and then give insulin
0.75 units might still be too much to start
Feed him a smaller meal maybe like 2 tablespoons of his wet food 2 hours after giving insulin and then 4 hours after giving insulin
Caninsulin hits hard and fast ,it's really recommended for dogs
Do the same for his PMPS cycle
Are you home testing since the libre came off?
We don't base how many units to give based on the Pre Shots we base them on how low the BG is dropping.
Whatever his ideal weight should be you times that by 20
So if his ideal weight should be 14 lbs
20x14= 280 calories a day
Have you taken him back to the vet to check where he tore his skin off
You live in Vancover B.C ?
You might not need a prescription to purchase lantus ( generic lantus should be cheaper)
For newbies we suggest not to give insulin if the BG is under 200
Let me tag Melissa for you
What kind of cone does he have on , maybe try getting a soft cone something like this

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi everyone,

I am at the end of my rope and about to go crazy. No joke.
This is my journey and I would appreciate it if you can read it and tell me what i'm doing right or wrong. I will welcome any criticism. I am just living in a state of constant fear.


My 14 year old rescue has been diagnosed with Diabetes for 1 week and keeps getting skinnier. Doctor glued a glucose monitor to his back and told me to give him 2 units of insulin after eating.

FYI, i hate needles and drawing blood and faint when I see needles. I somehow mastered the injections and kept scanning him through the night. His glucose level went below 4 and I gave him maple syrup.

Even though he had a cone on, he managed to pull the monitor off and tear his skin off. Hence, I'm keeping the cone on and he freaking out. I tried giving him Sugar Gold by Pet Well Being and it didn't lower his levels after 3 days. He kept getting skinner and more frail. I've been giving him 0.5 units of Insulin and increased it to 0.75 units this afternoon.

Seems like the doc's 2 unit was waaaaay too much for his frail body.
I haven't done the glucose curve and will probably do it in a few days once I get a hang of this. I haven't slept for a week and am going crazy.
Am I gonna kill him if I make one mistake and give him too little or too much if he hasn't eaten enough? Is he gonna die soon?
What can I do to help him?

Food: Wellness cans ( 1 can 2 times a day)
Insulin: Caninsulin by Merck
Snack: Freeze dried chicken breath
Water: water fountain and change it twice a day
Kidney: Kidney Gold drops by Pet Well being ( they healed his CKD 5 years ago)
Comfort: he has access to bed, balcony and all the best places

Please say something to calm me down or tell me what i'm doing wrong. Is he gonna make it? I love him like noone else.

Thank you for reading my sob story

@FrostD

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Wendy&Neko
Hi Wendy hope you don't mind I tagged you , I see Elsa ( new member ) lives in Vancouver , I copied this from one of your posts for her
In Canada, the test strips are unfortunately more pricey and are what you go through more often. But you can often get a free meter when you buy a package of test strips. Sometimes you can get good prices on test strips on eBay. You want a meter that needs just a small drop of blood. The Freestyle Lite is one many use but there are others. The cheapest meter available is the Bravo (free meter available, link to test strips here). But with online purchases you want to have a good supply on hand. I got nervous when I had less than 200 test strips. Having a backup meter where you can quickly go to a pharmacy to pick up a pack of strips is a good idea.

Can you suggest where she can purchase lantus if she decides to switch from caninsulin to lantus , I assume she won't need a script to buy it
Thanks Wendy

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Even though he had a cone on, he managed to pull the monitor off and tear his skin off. Hence, I'm keeping the cone on and he freaking out

Home testing
About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[FrostD]

Welcome! You're in the right place, we'll help you get it straightened out

So only diagnosed a week ago. I have a few questions just to make sure I have a better.picture:
1. Did you change diet after diagnosis?
2. Was there any sort of infection or inflammation at diagnosis? Ketones that you're aware of?
3. Any history of steroids?
4. Which specific wellness cans are you feeding? What are his current and ideal weight?
5. Do you still have the Libre data? I'd like to see whatever you have, in whatever form it may be.
6. He dropped below 4 after a dose of 2U? Did your vet advise dropping back to 0.5U?
7. How was he diagnosed? Fructosamine? Other symptoms?
8. Has he had kidney labs done recently? Copy.of results if so?

I would not bother with the sugar gold. So far there aren't really any supplements that have shown to help or "cure" the diabetes (it can't be cured, just go into remission).

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hello and welcome from the North Shore. Our vet started us on Caninsulin first too. Note the word "canin" in there. It makes a great dog insulin, not so much for cats. Having said that, there seem to be a lot of vets still recommending it, probably because they don't have as many kitty diabetics as dogs. Once I landed here, I switched to Lantus. Which is available OTC in human pharmacies. If you switch, you'll also need to switch syringes, as it's a different concentration of insulin. Plus the U-100 syringes used for Lantus are thinner, easier to poke. I too used to faint at the sight of blood. My friends were amazed to hear I was blood testing.

Once you have a good balance of food and a better dose of insulin, he should start to put weight back on again.

I'll wait to say much more until you've answered Melissa's questions in the post above. I also agree with her on the sugar gold. I've seen a number of people use it here, with not a bit of success. Save your money.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

In no particular order:

diagnosed with Diabetes for one week

I've only seen it happen twice that because of the stress of a vet visit his numbers are not normal. Has he had a fructosamine test yet?

told me to give him 2 units of insulin after eating.

That's wrong. he shouldn't eat for two hours, then you test his blood sugar which determines that day's amount of insulin, then he eats.
It's a big mistake by your vet to determine how much insulin you give him based on that one visit. As I said above, you test first and that is what determines each cycles insulin shot.

gave him maple syrup

Karo or Kayro syrup is corn syrup and can be hard to find. Corn syrup is easy. Nigel hated it so I used honey instead. Get some on your pinky finger and rub it on his gums. Start slow and keep testing afterwards. The idea is not to get a giant blob in his mouth and watch his numbers go through the roof.

Am I gonna kill him if I make one mistake

I had the same thought years ago with our first cat, we all have. He wasn't dead, he was having a nap.
When you have the time please read this http://www.felinediabetes.com/dear-mom.htm

if he hasn't eaten enough?
Feeding a diabetic cat two meals a day is old school. After 14 years he's supposed to change everything he's gotten used to? Use some common sense as to what you feed him but let him eat like a normal cat which is not two meals a day weighed on a scale or measured by the can.

Insulin: Caninsulin

Caninsulin was made for dogs and never intended for cats. It's hard on their systems and seldom lasts a full 12 hour cycle. Since it's only been a week it's not too late to switch him over to something much better for him.

We've all been where you are now, staring out the window wondering how this has happened to us. Stay with us where you won't get snickered at and there's no such thing as a stupid question. With out first sugar cat what I thought was a tragedy turned into an inconvenience. By the time our second cat was diagnosed I just yawned, got some new batteries and strips on the way home and knew what I was doing. Because of cluster headaches I could even test and inject in a dark room without the cat even flinching. You can too with a little faith and your new friends here. Feel a bit better now? Stop crying and do what's best for both of you.

 

[elsa&juju2022]

As far as I’ve been able to tell in my time here, CanInsulin is not really recommended for cats these days. There are a lot of cats here (my kitty included) who are being treated using Lantus (which has a proven record of getting cats into remission) and a number who use Prozinc. Can you talk to your vet about switching?

The users here are very data driven. If you look on this page there are lots of tips here for getting started and helping us to help you!

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Thank you for your response. I called him yesterday and he said it is an option but will cost $100 more. I have ordered. it.

 

[Cali S]

Thank you for your response. I called him yesterday and he said it is an option but will cost $100 more. I have ordered. it.

Make sure you have some U100 syringes ready and have a good read through all the useful material above. I know it’s a little overwhelming, but it’ll help you feel confident with your kitty’s treatment moving forward!

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Hi Diane,

Thank you for detailed response.

I have called doc about Lantus and will give him that.

I hate, HATE, HATE, HATE poking my poor kid and getting blood. I feel like vomiting when I see him like that.

I've been giving him Can Insulin and he is on the soft cone. He looks like a lamp LOOOL. I am so sleep deprived, I fell sleep for a few mins last night and worke up screaming, "OMG the lamp is running away" loool

Vet saw photos of his skin and prescribed the cream called Taro Mupirocin.

I updated my signature but still working the spreadsheet. I give less than 1 unit of insulin at 2 am and 2 pm after eating and measure a few hours later. 8 hours later and his glucose is 16.8. I 'm going to look at everyone's results to see what numbers are normal.

I am very new to this and reading everyone's notes and comments trying to figure out what i should do.

Thank you for your feedback and support

Elsa

Hi Elsa
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information

• Add info we need to help you:
  • Caregiver & kitty's name
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

I'll tag a vetsulin/ caninsulin user for you
We feed our cats more than just twice a day, feed Juju a bigger meal at AMPS
You need to test first, feed ,then wait 30 minutes and then give insulin
0.75 units might still be too much to start
Feed him a smaller meal maybe like 2 tablespoons of his wet food 2 hours after giving insulin and then 4 hours after giving insulin
Caninsulin hits hard and fast ,it's really recommended for dogs
Do the same for his PMPS cycle
Are you home testing since the libre came off?
We don't base how many units to give based on the Pre Shots we base them on how low the BG is dropping.
Whatever his ideal weight should be you times that by 20
So if his ideal weight should be 14 lbs
20x14= 280 calories a day
Have you taken him back to the vet to check where he tore his skin off
You live in Vancover B.C ?
You might not need a prescription to purchase lantus ( generic lantus should be cheaper)
For newbies we suggest not to give insulin if the BG is under 200
Let me tag Melissa for you
What kind of cone does he have on , maybe try getting a soft cone something like this

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Hi,

Why am I unable to upload photos?

Long story short, he was eating dry food (Ultra for seniors), wet canned food, treats, freeze dried chicken and getting Kidney Gold supplements ( he had CKD 5 years ago and recovered).

he started to pee clear and alot, would never leave his water fountain and lost substantial amount of weight.
Took him to vet for Urine test and they prescribed anti depressants and something to let him pee.

Urinalyis came back and they determined he doesnt have UTI. Did a blood test and sugar level was 29 and creatinne was 258. Wish I could upload photos.
Vet called and said he is diabetic, bring him and installed the Libre which lasted 5 hours before he tore it out with his leg. Why would they glue it to him and he has torn skin after he pulled it out. I've been putting Taro Mupirocin (2%) 2 times a day and he has a soft cone on.

Initially bought a HQ Store glucose monitor which was total garbage. Kept showing Low after eating. I bought a Alpha track 2 machine from his vet and numbers have been fluctuating between 12 and 20. Last night I gave him too much dried chicken and it went up to 25.

I wish I didnt have to test so many times.

Waiting for Lantus to see if that works. I cant do the insulin curve as pocking him every time makes me wanna die let alone every 2 hours.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Home testing
About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Welcome! You're in the right place, we'll help you get it straightened out

So only diagnosed a week ago. I have a few questions just to make sure I have a better.picture:
1. Did you change diet after diagnosis?
2. Was there any sort of infection or inflammation at diagnosis? Ketones that you're aware of?
3. Any history of steroids?
4. Which specific wellness cans are you feeding? What are his current and ideal weight?
5. Do you still have the Libre data? I'd like to see whatever you have, in whatever form it may be.
6. He dropped below 4 after a dose of 2U? Did your vet advise dropping back to 0.5U?
7. How was he diagnosed? Fructosamine? Other symptoms?
8. Has he had kidney labs done recently? Copy.of results if so?

I would not bother with the sugar gold. So far there aren't really any supplements that have shown to help or "cure" the diabetes (it can't be cured, just go into remission).

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Can you put when he was diagnosed in your signature
@elsa&juju2022

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

So only diagnosed a week ago. I have a few questions just to make sure I have a better.picture:
1. Did you change diet after diagnosis?
2. Was there any sort of infection or inflammation at diagnosis? Ketones that you're aware of?
3. Any history of steroids?
4. Which specific wellness cans are you feeding? What are his current and ideal weight?
5. Do you still have the Libre data? I'd like to see whatever you have, in whatever form it may be.
6. He dropped below 4 after a dose of 2U? Did your vet advise dropping back to 0.5U?
7. How was he diagnosed? Fructosamine? Other symptoms?
8. Has he had kidney labs done recently? Copy.of results if so?

I would not bother with the sugar gold. So far there aren't really any supplements that have shown to help or "cure" the diabetes (it can't be cured, just go into remission).

@elsa&juju2022
Can you answer some of Melissa's @FrostD
questions

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

If you switch to lantus
Syringes from Canada
Check out your local pharmacy for the BD Ultrafine II syringes (purple and yellow box). Those are U100 syringes. If you have a Costco near you, check them out. Or Safeway pharmacy

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you for your response. I called him yesterday and he said it is an option but will cost $100 more. I have ordered. it.

Was that for just one pen?
I see you said you have ordered it in your post above
You can get generic lantus 5 pens that will last you for a year it's cheaper , I pretty sure you don't need a script to purchase it
Which is available OTC in human pharmacies.
Most of us use human meters that's what our numbers are based on
The Freestyle Lite is one many use but there are others. The cheapest meter available is the Bravo (free meter available, link to test strips here). But with online purchases you want to have a good supply on hand. I got nervous when I had less than 200 test strips. Having a backup meter where you can quickly go to a pharmacy to pick up a pack of strips is a good idea.

Are you going to get another libre put on
You need to be testing every AMPS to be sure it's safe to give insulin and get some note tests after that such as @+2, @+4 @+6. Same goes for the PMPS cycle to see how low he will be dropping on lantus when you start it
Mix up the tims you tests such as @+3, @+5 etc
Like filling in pieces of a puzzle

We adjust the doses by how low he's dropping not the pte shots
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time
Even though the syringes with half unit markings can only be adjusted by 0.5 units it's much easier when you need to adjust by 0.25 units

@elsa&juju2022

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Welcome! You're in the right place, we'll help you get it straightened out

So only diagnosed a week ago. I have a few questions just to make sure I have a better.picture:
1. Did you change diet after diagnosis?
stopped free feeding dry treats and dry food. Sprinkle 3-5 dry food (Ultra senior) on his wet food to get him to eat.

2. Was there any sort of infection or inflammation at diagnosis? Ketones that you're aware of?
No infection

3. Any history of steroids?
None

4. Which specific wellness cans are you feeding? What are his current and ideal weight?
Small cans of turkey pate 2 times a day. he never eats the full can so sometimes i give him some chicken pate


5. Do you still have the Libre data? I'd like to see whatever you have, in whatever form it may be.
Libra lasted for literally 5 hours before he pulled it off


6. He dropped below 4 after a dose of 2U? Did your vet advise dropping back to 0.5U?
I gave Sugar Gold for a few days and when didnt notice i started giving 0.5 unit. Numbers were still high so i'm giving 1 unit now. Numbers are around 14-16



7. How was he diagnosed? Fructosamine? Other symptoms?
Fructosamine

8. Has he had kidney labs done recently? Copy.of results if so?
Yes, I can't upload photos. How do i get permission please?

I would not bother with the sugar gold. So far there aren't really any supplements that have shown to help or "cure" the diabetes (it can't be cured, just go into remission).

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Elsa is switching to lantus
Syringes from Canada going to tag Wendy
@Wendy&Neko to double check I gave you the correct information
Check out your local pharmacy for the BD Ultrafine II syringes (purple and yellow box). Those are U100 syringes. If you have a Costco near you, check them out. Or Safeway pharmacy

I need a prescription for Lantus Pen but I can get the syringe at the pharmacy. mom is also diabetic and uses the same thing

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I need a prescription for Lantus Pen but I can get the syringe at the pharmacy. mom is also diabetic and uses the same thing

So you needed a script for lantus?
When will you be starting the lantus , let us know
Did you get the 5 pens or just a vial for 100 bucks?
If you got the pens we use the half unit syringes
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!

@elsa&juju2022

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Ate you going to stick with the Alpha Trak Meter if so the color coding up top is wrong the last 2 columns are wrong the dark green and the neon green , they are for when using human meters
Let me know and if you do stay with the Alpha Trak I can contact one of our members to fix it for you just ask me
Also on your spreadsheet you didn't enter how many units you gave in the AMPS and PMPS cell we need to know

You need to be testing every day
@elsa&juju2022

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I've been giving him 0.5 units of Insulin and increased it to 0.75 units this afternoon.

If you are not giving 1 units two times daily like you noted in your signature get rid if it you don't even have to put how many units you are giving in your signature because it's always changing , just needs to be entered on your spreadsheet

You should read all about Lantus here especially the dosing methods which will let you know when the dose has to be adjusted If you are feeding any dry food ( ultra Dry ) at all you will need to follow SLGS for Lantus Read all he yellow stickys
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

 

[elsa&juju2022]

If you are not giving 1 units two times daily like you noted in your signature get rid if it you don't even have to put how many units you are giving in your signature because it's always changing , just needs to be entered on your spreadsheet

You should read all about Lantus here especially the dosing methods which will let you know when the dose has to be adjusted If you are feeding any dry food ( ultra Dry ) at all you will nerd to follow SLGS for Lantus Read all he yellow stickys
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Sorry brain is foggy i meant i started at 0.25 increased to 0.75 and have been giving 1 unit for 2 days. I scheduled a call with Vet to get lantus. He is resisting giving me lantus. His tech said doc is asking for you to stick with Can Insulin for now.


Should i not give him even a few dry ones? He was free fed for 10 years with dry and wet and is freaking out now. Should i cut off all dry all together?

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

I need a prescription for Lantus Pen but I can get the syringe at the pharmacy. mom is also diabetic and uses the same thing

In Canada, humans need a prescription for Lantus. Animals do not. Just say it is for your cat.

From: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/

Lantus SoloStar, Basaglar KwikPen, Semglee Pen and Levemir FlexTouch pens will dispense insulin in increments of whole units only. Using the pen needles with pens is known to be more accurate than syringes at small doses (less than 5 units). See "Dosing accuracy of insulin pens versus conventional syringes and vials and Accuracy of pen injectors versus insulin syringes in children with Type 1 diabetes". HOWEVER, we strongly suggest using syringes to draw insulin from pens because we generally make dose adjustments in increments of 0.25 - 0.50 units (not in whole units). Here's some help if you choose to use the pen/pen needle combination when injecting whole units:

Video: How to use a Lantus SoloStar Pen
​

Cats do not have as many nerve endings in their ears as you might think. A cat's ear gets whapped frequently during cat fights. They are tough.

It could be that Juju is responding to the click sound made by the device near his ear. Try, if you can, freehanding by poking with only the lancet (not the handy dandy device – some cats don't think it is handy dandy).

Welcome. Waving from Ontario (formerly of Vancouver Island).

 

[elsa&juju2022]

H

In Canada, humans need a prescription for Lantus. Animals do not. Just say it is for your cat.

From: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/

Lantus SoloStar, Basaglar KwikPen, Semglee Pen and Levemir FlexTouch pens will dispense insulin in increments of whole units only. Using the pen needles with pens is known to be more accurate than syringes at small doses (less than 5 units). See "Dosing accuracy of insulin pens versus conventional syringes and vials and Accuracy of pen injectors versus insulin syringes in children with Type 1 diabetes". HOWEVER, we strongly suggest using syringes to draw insulin from pens because we generally make dose adjustments in increments of 0.25 - 0.50 units (not in whole units). Here's some help if you choose to use the pen/pen needle combination when injecting whole units:

Video: How to use a Lantus SoloStar Pen
​

Cats do not have as many nerve endings in their ears as you might think. A cat's ear gets whapped frequently during cat fights. They are tough.

It could be that Juju is responding to the click sound made by the device near his ear. Try, if you can, freehanding by poking with only the lancet (not the handy dandy device – some cats don't think it is handy dandy).

Welcome. Waving from Ontario (formerly of Vancouver Island).

Thank you very much for your response. I had a chat with his vet and he suggested I stick with can insulin for now.
I finally managed to get his glucose to 176 with 1 unit. I’m jumping up with joy. I think the reason he wasn’t responding to the insulin was feeding too much freeze dry chicken in between meals. Please don’t judge me, I’m so new to this and have barely slept in past 6 days.

I gave him 3 tiny pieces today. I am also recording his BG on the spreadsheet.

Thank you for saying his ears don’t hurt. I burst into tears every time I had to check his glucose. Free handing poking him would make me faint. I’m a wuss.



I also tried giving him a body massage today and he LOVED it.

do I have to test him everyday for the rest of his life? he had CKD a few years ago and I would give Kidney Gold drops and he recovered. Considering he had high creatinine levels, should I continue giving him the drops?
They taste very sweet to the tongue and when I called the company pet well-being they said it should not raise his levels.
I’m finally getting a hang of this. Should I worry about his kidneys too? Should I give him drops or something else?

thank you for your support

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Sorry brain is foggy i meant i started at 0.25 increased to 0.75 and have been giving 1 unit for 2 days. I scheduled a call with Vet to get lantus. He is resisting giving me lantus. His tech said doc is asking for you to stick with Can Insulin for now.


Should i not give him even a few dry ones? He was free fed for 10 years with dry and wet and is freaking out now. Should i cut off all dry all together?

To be honest with you without testing him before you give him the insulin and with hardly any testing after both cycles I doubt anyone can give you any advice on doses. You will never ever know if he is dropping too low and go hypo ,you won't know when a decrease or increase is needed. I would keep the dry food since you really aren't testing

 

[elsa&juju2022]

To be honest with you without testing him before you give him the insulin and with hardly any testing after both cycles I doubt anyone can give you any advice on doses. You will never ever know if he is dropping too low and go hypo ,you won't know when a decrease or increase is needed. I would keep the dry food since you really aren't testing

I just saw your notes about the spreadsheet. I will fix it.
I tested 3 times today after insulin. I didn’t bother putting in numbers for prior days as That machine was inaccurate and I was also giving sugar gold drops instead of insulin.

i will test him before and after insulin starting today. I wasn’t aware that testing before is as important. I was hesitant of testing so much as I thought his ears were hurting before learning here that it doesn’t hurt him. I’m not being a jerk that neglects him.

I have only been at this for a week and my whole world has fallen apart. Thank you for being patient with me while I figure this out.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I the reason he wasn’t responding to the insulin was feeding too much freeze dry chicken in between meals.

I doubt that's the reason, we all feed our cats at least 4 small meals during each 12 hour cycle which is easier on the pancrease. Getting that 176 tonight doesn't mean that is the perfect dose for him. The reason testing him first thing in the morning before giving him his insulin is to be sure that his BG number is safe enough to shoot, same goes for PMPS . God forbid is BG was 50 and you didn't test him first thing he could go hypo . I started out with Vetsulin just like you then switched to Lantus. Without the advise from the experienced members here Tyler wouldn't be in remission today as of 1-24-21 .
When you asked if you have to test him everyday for the rest of your life
You have to test him until he goes into remission
After that he would still be diabetic but food controlled meaning feeding a low carb wet food. Then
weekly for the first month and then monthly forever

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

If you going to stick with the Alpha Trak Meter the color coding up top is wrong the last 2 columns are wrong the dark green and the neon green , they are for when you are using a human meter
Let me know and if you do stay with the Alpha Trak I can contact one of our members to fix it for you just ask me
I'll contact Bhooma to fix it for you
@Bandit's Mom

 

[elsa&juju2022]

If you going to stick with the Alpha Trak Meter the color coding up top is wrong the last 2 columns are wrong the dark green and the neon green , they are for when you are using a human meter
Let me know and if you do stay with the Alpha Trak I can contact one of our members to fix it for you just ask me
I'll contact Bhooma to fix it for you
@Bandit's Mom

Yes kindly fix it: thank you

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Yes kindly fix it: thank you

@Bandit's Mom
Hi Bhooma can you please fix Elsa's SS the last 2 cells for the color coding ,she is using the Alpha Trak and it has the BG numbers for a human meter
Thanks Bhooma

 

[elsa&juju2022]

I doubt that's the reason, we all feed our cats at least 4 small meals during each 12 hour cycle which is easier on the pancrease. Getting that 176 tonight doesn't mean that is the perfect dose for him. The reason testing him first thing in the morning before giving him his insulin is to be sure that his BG number is safe enough to shoot, same goes for PMPS . God forbid is BG was 50 and you didn't test him first thing he could go hypo . I started out with Vetsulin just like you then switched to Lantus. Without the advise from the experienced members here Tyler wouldn't be in remission today as of 1-24-21 .
When you asked if you have to test him everyday for the rest of your life
You have to test him until he goes into remission
After that he would still be diabetic but food controlled meaning feeding a low carb wet food. Then
weekly for the first month and then monthly forever

How does feeding him 4 small meals work? Would he not go hypo after the insulin shot?
I’m confused now.

I thought 2 meals and a shot 12 hours apart.
Feeding him multiple meals sounds heavenly and would keep him from begging. I can’t eat at home in front of him. I’m literally hungry in bed as he will beg what I would eat.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Considering he had high creatinine levels,

Going to tag Suzanne for you to look at his labs concerning his kidneys ,I see you just had the done on Oct 10th 2022
@Suzanne & Darcy
You said his creatinine was 258? In your post above
His labs say it was 14.3
The Bun says 363? Are you sure you filled that in right
The range says
14-36 mg/dL

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

How does feeding him 4 small meals work? Would he not go hypo after the insulin shot?
I’m confused now.

I thought 2 meals and a shot 12 hours apart.
Feeding him multiple meals sounds heavenly and would keep him from begging. I can’t eat at home in front of him. I’m literally hungry in bed as he will beg what I would eat.

Feeding only twice a day is old thinking or whatever you want to call it
Right after you test him and make sure his BG is a safe enough number to give insulin you would feed him his bigger meal then wait 30 minutes then give the insulin when using Caninsulin , you need food on board with Caninsulin because it can hut hard and fast.
Then maybe 2 hours after shooting insulin you can feed him about 2 tablespoons of his wet food, then again around 4 hours after giving insulin, it's easier on the pancreas

About going hypo what I mean is let's say you don't test him first thing in the morning to see what his BG number is and you give him 1 unit of Caninsulin and all of a sudden you see him going hypo so you decide to test him and see that it's something like 28( US BG)
His AMPS number could have been something like 50(US BG)
That's why you need to always test at AMPS and PMPS



68-150 is a normal range for a pet meter
The take action number on a pet meter is 68 on the Alpha Trak
Meaning you will need to intervene with food to bring the BG number up

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Feeding only twice a day is old thinking or whatever you want to call it
Right after you test him and make sure his BG is a safe enough number to give insulin you would feed him his bigger meal then wait 30 minutes then give the insulin when using Caninsulin , you need food on board with Caninsulin because it can hut hard and fast.
Then maybe 2 hours after shooting insulin you can feed him about 2 tablespoons of his wet food, then again around 4 hours after giving insulin, it's easier on the pancreas

About going hypo what I mean is let's say you don't test him first thing in the morning to see what his BG number is and you give him 1 unit of Caninsulin and all of a sudden you see him going hypo so you decide to test him and see that it's something like 28( US BG)
His AMPS number could have been something like 50(US BG)
That's why you need to always test at AMPS and PMPS



68-150 is a normal range for a pet meter
The take action number on a pet meter is 68 on the Alpha Trak
Meaning you will need to intervene with food to bring the BG number up

I will upload a copy of his lab results in morning and send you a link. I was not done entering the numbers and checking as I was in meetings all day.

I took his fasting glucose level and it’s 450 (24.8) my head hurts. Why is this so high? Am I not giving enough Insulin? Doc told me gradually increase it up to 2 units. I gave 1.25 today. Is that ok?
I will test again in 4 hours?

Is this high BG cause I gave 2 pieces of dry him chicken again? What if I feed small meals like you? Would he need more insulin? Can you tell me exactly how to small feed? 2 hours and 4 hours after insulin 2 spoons? Then let him fast?
Sorry for sounding so annoying. I’ve literally stopped sleeping and trying to get a hang of this without killing him.
Thank you for your patience

 

[cecile & bella]

Hello Elsa. My Bella has been diagnosed a year ago. When I arrived here in February this year I was depressed and confused like you now and it seemed like whateer I did, Bella's glucose was always high, it made no sense. She was begging for food and always looked hungry. I started feeding her the same amount but fractionned, at shot times and then +2 and +4, and then even +6, and it changed everything. She is more regulated, she stopped begging for food, she was calmer. I bought an automatic feeder to feed her at night, too. It is so hard at first but you will get there, this forum has been a real life-changer for me. It makes no sense at first, but then his blood sugar will start responding to what you do. You have to be patient, it will come.
You could start posting his numbers here, and follow what experimented members will advise you to do about changing his dose.

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Hello Elsa. My Bella has been diagnosed a year ago. When I arrived here in February this year I was depressed and confused like you now and it seemed like whateer I did, Bella's glucose was always high, it made no sense. She was begging for food and always looked hungry. I started feeding her the same amount but fractionned, at shot times and then +2 and +4, and then even +6, and it changed everything. She is more regulated, she stopped begging for food, she was calmer. I bought an automatic feeder to feed her at night, too. It is so hard at first but you will get there, this forum has been a real life-changer for me. It makes no sense at first, but then his blood sugar will start responding to what you do. You have to be patient, it will come.
You could start posting his numbers here, and follow what experimented members will advise you to do about changing his dose.

Thank you so much for your response Cecile. I’m very grateful for all awesome people here such as yourself.

I feed one can before insulin. So I break that into smaller chunks and feed a fraction before insulin would be not go Hypo cause Insulin hits hard?

Thank you

 

[cecile & bella]

I feed about 1/3 of a can (she eats 2 cans a day) when I do her shot, then the other 1/3 3 hours later and the last 1/3 5 or 6 hours later. At first I did 1/3 at shot time, then even smaller chus at +2, +4 and +6. I realized she rarely goes down before +3 so I started doing that instead. You have to test him often to see how he reacts to the insulin and food, too. Testing gets easier as well. I kneel with Bella between my legs, pet her, massage her ear and then poke it wth the lancet. I stoped using the device, it scared her and I was not precise with it. Now when she wants a snack, she comes and sits on the rug where we test. At first I would try many times and often ended up crying because it did not work. I think we've all gone through that here. Bhooma, Bandit's mom, told me many times to 'wear my patience pants", so did Tiffmaxee and Diane, and they were so right.
Here is Bella waiting for her test:

 

[FrostD]

Stick with the 1.25U for now.

I suspect the two cans isn't enough food - when they are unregulated, they cannot fully process food, so often need more. What is Current weight and ideal weight?

Feeding the multiple small meals - with Caninsulin specifically you will want the shot time meals to be largest. Maybe 1/2-3/4 can, that's still plenty of food to help offset the insulin kicking in. Then you'll want to feed another small meal (1/4 can or so) about 3 hours after the shot (once you get a little more data I'll have a better idea as to exactly when) - that will also help slow any big drops.

We want to try to avoid feeding after nadir (peak insulin action, the lowest BG of the cycle) because the insulin is wearing off and can't help offset the carbs. Unfortunately with Caninsulin, that often means no food after +5 ish ...if you find he's hungry after that, I would limit it to about a tablespoon.

As for his BGs, what you're seeing is totally normal for Caninsulin (another vote for Lantus here, or ProZinc). It hits hard and fast, then wears off pretty quickly and they go high again. There's also something we call bouncing , where they drop lower and/or faster than they're used to. Their liver panics and dumps stored glycogen and counterregulatory hormones in order to spike BG back up...the effects of that can last up to 6 cycles (3 days). It just takes.some time for them to get used to lower numbers again.

 

[elsa&juju2022]

What a gorgeous baby

Ok I will feed at intervals too. Thank you

My questions may be very stupid but I really don’t know and Google gives me conflicting answers; hence, why I’m here bothering everyone.

What should his fasting BG be?
I work from home but can I leave home more than 2 hours?

Once I figure out the proper dosage, if I am going out and can’t give snacks should I give less insulin? Or is insulin the same amount both times no matter what?

If I’m eating boiled eggs can I give him a tiny piece?
What about milk? Can he have a tiny bit like he used to?

When he pulled out the machine he tore his skin. I’m keeping the cone on and applying anti bacterial cream that vet gave me. How long until he heals? Is this going to take weeks cause he is diabetic?


what else should I watch for to prolong his life? Does he need vitamins like the ones he used to take? Does he need omega pills?

How I get permission to upload photos?

Thank you for helping me out

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Stick with the 1.25U for now.

I suspect the two cans isn't enough food - when they are unregulated, they cannot fully process food, so often need more. What is Current weight and ideal weight?

Feeding the multiple small meals - with Caninsulin specifically you will want the shot time meals to be largest. Maybe 1/2-3/4 can, that's still plenty of food to help offset the insulin kicking in. Then you'll want to feed another small meal (1/4 can or so) about 3 hours after the shot (once you get a little more data I'll have a better idea as to exactly when) - that will also help slow any big drops.

We want to try to avoid feeding after nadir (peak insulin action, the lowest BG of the cycle) because the insulin is wearing off and can't help offset the carbs. Unfortunately with Caninsulin, that often means no food after +5 ish ...if you find he's hungry after that, I would limit it to about a tablespoon.

As for his BGs, what you're seeing is totally normal for Caninsulin (another vote for Lantus here, or ProZinc). It hits hard and fast, then wears off pretty quickly and they go high again. There's also something we call bouncing , where they drop lower and/or faster than they're used to. Their liver panics and dumps stored glycogen and counterregulatory hormones in order to spike BG back up...the effects of that can last up to 6 cycles (3 days). It just takes.some time for them to get used to lower numbers again.

I was just typing my questions when I saw your response. Bless you
That’s a huuuge help

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Stick with the 1.25U for now.

I suspect the two cans isn't enough food - when they are unregulated, they cannot fully process food, so often need more. What is Current weight and ideal weight?

Feeding the multiple small meals - with Caninsulin specifically you will want the shot time meals to be largest. Maybe 1/2-3/4 can, that's still plenty of food to help offset the insulin kicking in. Then you'll want to feed another small meal (1/4 can or so) about 3 hours after the shot (once you get a little more data I'll have a better idea as to exactly when) - that will also help slow any big drops.

We want to try to avoid feeding after nadir (peak insulin action, the lowest BG of the cycle) because the insulin is wearing off and can't help offset the carbs. Unfortunately with Caninsulin, that often means no food after +5 ish ...if you find he's hungry after that, I would limit it to about a tablespoon.

As for his BGs, what you're seeing is totally normal for Caninsulin (another vote for Lantus here, or ProZinc). It hits hard and fast, then wears off pretty quickly and they go high again. There's also something we call bouncing , where they drop lower and/or faster than they're used to. Their liver panics and dumps stored glycogen and counterregulatory hormones in order to spike BG back up...the effects of that can last up to 6 cycles (3 days). It just takes.some time for them to get used to lower numbers again.

He is 5.8 kg and his ideal is 6.5-7 kg I believe. He is 14 years old

 

[cecile & bella]

I don't know Caninsulin well, Bella is on Lantus, but you should start by reading all the stickies here. Here is the one about your insulin: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
Normal BG is between 68 and 150 on a pet meter. For now he is higher so you don't want him to go down too fast, either. You should hold a dose long enough, as it's explained in the posts I linked. I don't feel experienced enough to advise you on dosage, but you will have advice here.
You can (and should ) go out for 2 hours or even more. Don't leave him if he is going down really fast and close to 68 on the AT until he is more stable, but otherwise yes, he will be fine. An automatic feeder is great for that: it opens at pre-set times and gives you more freedom, knowing that he will be fed.
About snacks: Bella always loved milk and I am still giving it to her, a very small amount at night, and she is doing fine. I did not see any difference with or without it, and it makes her very happy. Same for boiled eggs. Chicken pieces are fine too, so is cheese. Any low-carb food in tiny amounts. Or you can give him a very small amount of his regular food, too.
For photos: you drag the photo into the post, I could never figure out the uploading, but that works.

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Going to tag Suzanne for you to look at his labs concerning his kidneys ,I see you just had the done on Oct 10th 2022
@Suzanne & Darcy
You said his creatinine was 258? In your post above
His labs say it was 14.3
The Bun says 363? Are you sure you filled that in right
The range says
14-36 mg/dL

Hi Diane,

This is Juju's labwork. The units were different than what was on the spreadsheet.
Please let me know if you have questions.

Thank you for following up on us. <3

 

[elsa&juju2022]

I don't know Caninsulin well, Bella is on Lantus, but you should start by reading all the stickies here. Here is the one about your insulin: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
Normal BG is between 68 and 150 on a pet meter. For now he is higher so you don't want him to go down too fast, either. You should hold a dose long enough, as it's explained in the posts I linked. I don't feel experienced enough to advise you on dosage, but you will have advice here.
You can (and should ) go out for 2 hours or even more. Don't leave him if he is going down really fast and close to 68 on the AT until he is more stable, but otherwise yes, he will be fine. An automatic feeder is great for that: it opens at pre-set times and gives you more freedom, knowing that he will be fed.
About snacks: Bella always loved milk and I am still giving it to her, a very small amount at night, and she is doing fine. I did not see any difference with or without it, and it makes her very happy. Same for boiled eggs. Chicken pieces are fine too, so is cheese. Any low-carb food in tiny amounts. Or you can give him a very small amount of his regular food, too.
For photos: you drag the photo into the post, I could never figure out the uploading, but that works.

Boy oh boy am I kicking myself for not going to that link and reading up on how everything works sooner. i tested multiple times today and he is regulated for today. Thank yoooouuuuuu

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@elsa&juju2022
Hi Elsa I can tag a few members for you to look at Juju's labs
Can someone give Elsa some feedback on her kitty's labs in post #44
I will tag Suzanne but I see she hasn't been on since Oct 15

@Suzanne & Darcy

@Wendy&Neko

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@FrostD
Thanks ladies
The labs are from Oct 12, 2022

 

[elsa&juju2022]

Hello Elsa. My Bella has been diagnosed a year ago. When I arrived here in February this year I was depressed and confused like you now and it seemed like whateer I did, Bella's glucose was always high, it made no sense. She was begging for food and always looked hungry. I started feeding her the same amount but fractionned, at shot times and then +2 and +4, and then even +6, and it changed everything. She is more regulated, she stopped begging for food, she was calmer. I bought an automatic feeder to feed her at night, too. It is so hard at first but you will get there, this forum has been a real life-changer for me. It makes no sense at first, but then his blood sugar will start responding to what you do. You have to be patient, it will come.
You could start posting his numbers here, and follow what experimented members will advise you to do about changing his dose.

Forgive my ignorace but isn't automatic feeder for dry food? If i was to put a spoon of wet food in a feeder, would it not spoil?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@elsa&juju2022
I see a lot of members use this auto feeder comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
They also add some water to the food so it won't dry out

https://www.chewy.com/cat-mate-c500-digital-5-meal/dp/154556?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Cat Mate&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmIuDBhDXARIsAFITC_63x-luggpCkFZRkS8gkKWhzRbyN2QiluSdQbUAVg-nyE2iitAjCY4aAjTmEALw_wcB

Extra ice packs
https://www.chewy.com/cat-mate-c500-auto-feeder-replacement/dp/260432

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Bandit's Mom
Hi Bhooma can you please fix Elsa's SS the last 2 cells for the color coding ,she is using the Alpha Trak and it has the BG numbers for a human meter
Thanks Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom

 

[elsa&juju2022]

What is the lowest PS BG that I can give him an Insulin shot. He ate and I measured him it was 325, I’m in a rush to go out after a week. Can I give him a shot or would he go Hypo?

How many hours can I stay out?