Need dosing help

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tommytn

Member Since 2011
Lantus has a longer time before onset, usually 2-3 hours, so you don't need food on board ahead of time. You will want to test before feeding to make sure the PS tests are not inflated by food. Regarding the other feeding times, it's best to spread out the food over the cycle in small meals, similar to what you are doing...a lot will depend on how he responds to the insulin, so you can fine tune the feeding schedule after you get started. The only big thing to remember for now is to not feed for at least 2 hours before PS time, to avoid the food influencing the PS tests.
Click to expand...

Starting yesterday afternoon, Tommy wasn't really eating. I just got home from a new vet with him. We did a full blood panel and a urine analysis. I tested him this afternoon for ketones, it came back as a small amt.(.. hence the vet visit.) The vet throughly checked him out and sent him home! But... now I'm left with another question.... I bought some new canned and raw food from Pet Supplies Plus. Tommy really wants to eat what's in the new bag. I know it was suggested not to feed 2 hours prior to testing, which for today won't be a huge deal since we only have about 35 minutes til PMPS time, BUT, if he ever kinda of lost his appetite throughout the day, would it hurt to feed him within those 2 hours prior to PS?

thanks!
christina and tommy
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

honestly.... i free feed. so i can't always tell when i get home if marco hasn't had food 2hrs prior to his ps. if Tommy isn't eating normally, at least for me personally, I'd let him eat. but that's just me.
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

i only feed punkin in the 3 hours starting with his insulin shot. i was feeding him evenly around the clock and it seemed like it affected his BG numbers, ie, they seemed to stay high all the time. You'll be able to tell once you have some more numbers on your spreadsheet how Tommy reacts. I think as long as you know what you've done, you can take it into account.

as i understand it, the only reason for not feeding in the 2 hours prior to the shot is so that the pre-shot BG isn't affected by the food - but they also need food to counteract the insulin. does that make sense? adding the disclaimer that i'm only into this for a month myself and others know more than i do. it's just what i understand.
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

Feeding within the 2 hour pre-shot window has the potential to inflate your pre-shot number. This can present a problem if your cat is running in lower numbers. If you feed close to shot time, you won't know how safe it is to shoot. If you're cat is really being a pest, a small snack of something very low carb (e.g., a piece of boiled chicken) may be OK.
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

tommytn said:
Starting yesterday afternoon, Tommy wasn't really eating. I just got home from a new vet with him. We did a full blood panel and a urine analysis. I tested him this afternoon for ketones, it came back as a small amt.(.. hence the vet visit.) The vet throughly checked him out and sent him home! But... now I'm left with another question.... I bought some new canned and raw food from Pet Supplies Plus. Tommy really wants to eat what's in the new bag. I know it was suggested not to feed 2 hours prior to testing, which for today won't be a huge deal since we only have about 35 minutes til PMPS time, BUT, if he ever kinda of lost his appetite throughout the day, would it hurt to feed him within those 2 hours prior to PS?
Click to expand...

hi christina. let him eat. tommy is throwing "small" ketones. you want him to eat regardless of shot time. also mix as much water in his food as he'll tolerate. you want to get food and water into him. please continue to check for ketones as often as possible, ok?

when my own cat isn't eating, i throw the "2 hour no feeding before shot" rule out the window.

please get a spreadsheet going as soon as possible. ketones usually reflect an inadequate dose, but dose suggestions can't be made without data.
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

just curious...
are you in tennessee? there's a few of us scattered all over the state. kathy/kitty and i are near Nashville. cd/big mac is near Chattanooga.
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

No, I'm in NW Indiana. Crown Point.

I tried for a while yesterday to get a spreadsheet going, but was having a hard time. With Tommy being a little out of it, it was hard to just sit here on the computer. I was following him around and checking on him every 15 minutes or so. Looks like today may be another one of those days. Last night I fed him an Evo canned food and he ate almost 3 oz. (I did try to give him the Nature's Instinct Raw- Tommy looked at it and ran! This morning, he only ate maybe a tablespoon of the Evo... (wet or dry) His numbers yesterday were in the 300s most of the day, todays AMPS was 371.

Hopefully the vet calls with clean blood results... She may suggest uping the dose of Lantus already. She mentioned that yesterday while we were there. I told her I was hesitant. I showed her the info about the storage shed and the importance of keeping the same dose for 5-7 days. She said she would talk to me after the results of the tests came in. If she suggests it, should I do it? Today is his 3rd day of 1 unit of Lantus. His numbers are already coming down on the lantus. On the Humulin, his BG usually tested in the 400-500s. Only 3 times when I testing his BG on the humulin was it ever into the 200s.

I'll work some more on getting that spreadsheet set up.
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

Transitioning a cat over to raw food can take a while. (Transitioning a cat to any new food can take a while!) You might want to take a look at the section I've linked from Lisa Pierson's site on feline nutrition about transitioning to a raw diet.

Right now, like Jill pointed out, if there are health concerns like ketones, it's more important to insure that Tommy is eating an adequate amount of food regardless of what or when it is.
 
Up the dose?

The vet called and suggested uping the dose of Lantus already. She wants me to jump to 2 units, starting with his PM dose tonight... (He's only on 1 unit now) I'm super-hesitant???!!! That goes against everything I've read. Here are his Lantus BG numbers so far. I know it's better on a spreadsheet, but haven't gotten that far.

(First day on Lantus) 3/24: AMPS 342, +1 445, +3 378, +6 473, +9 493, PMPS 407, +3.5 366
3/25: AMPS 331, +3 422, +6 404, +9 360, PMPS 512, +4 321
3/26: AMPS 372, +3 372


On a good note, all of his blood work came back great. No problems there... Still waiting on the urinalysis results.

On a bad note, he's not eating as much as he used to. The vet said call the ER vet if he doesn't eat tonight...

Advice?

Thanks! Christina & Tommy
 
Re: Lantus & Feeding Clarification?!

*bumpity* try changing the title of your first post to "dosing help needed" or something so the experts will come to your condo. :-D
 
Need help dosing

how do i change the title of the first one? or can I just copy and paste the message and start a new topic?
 
Christina, is Tommy eating any better yet today? How much has he eaten? Also, have you gotten a ketone test today? If you can get one before PMPS that would be great, it will help us know what to suggest as his dose.
 
He's hasn't eaten much better today. He's prolly only had 1.5 oz of canned food. There is some dry food out, Evo-7 carbs, Iams, 25 carbs. I only put 1/4 cup of each out, and there is still some left b/w 3 cats. (But all the cats are eating the canned now)

Today's BG:

AMPS 372, +3 372, +6 381, +9 461, PMPS 416

He's eating now. It's time for his shot....
 
I do think Tommy needs a dose increase. Did you see Libby's question asking whether you got a ketone test today?

I think you can bring Tommy's dose up to 1.5u. Please keep an eye on his numbers this evening and get a +2 to start. I would also see what you can do to encourage him to eat.

Adding tuna juice, freeze dried bonito/tuna flakes, parmesan cheese, crumbling dry on top of wet, rotisserie or boiled chicken, etc. -- whatever it takes to get im to eat. And, I'd add some water to his food.
 
I did get a small positive ketone result. I called the vet and she said that the ketones levels don't change that quickly and just to keep a close eye on him. She said to watch for vomiting and major changes in behavior.

I got him to eat another teaspoon or so of food and will keep trying every little bit. Luckily, he loves his canned food very wet, so i do always add water!

I went ahead and gave him a 1.5unit shot. I will definitly keep an eye on his numbers tonight. If his numbers are still high tonight, should I up the dose to 2 units in the morning? I don't want to go against the vet, but I also don't want to mess up everything I've read about the storage shed and keeping the dose for the first week.

Thanks again for all your help!
 
I'm very glad Tommy likes his wet food soupy!! The water will help to keep wash the ketones out of his system. It sounds like feeding small amounts over time is working. I'd keep it up.

In addition to symptoms like vomiting, lethargy can also be a symptom of increasing ketones. You're vet's right with regard to it taking a while to see ketones come down if you are urine testing for ketones. If you are testing ketones in the blood, you'll see quicker results.

Let's see how Tommy does tonight on this dose -- especially with respect to ketones.

FWIW: there are 2 lines below your signature. They aren't active links. I'm not sure what they are supposed to be. The link to Tommy's signature works fine.
 
I was trying to get tommy's spreadsheet and profile done and posted. I have the profile done, I just can't figure out how to attach it to the signature.

When I went to publish the profile, it gave me 2 different links to copy. I tried both... I'll work on it again when i have more time...


One more quick food question... I opened a can of tuna... Tommy went NUTS!!! I thought he was going to take a chunk out of my hand, he wanted at it sooo bad. I dumped the juice in a seperate bowl, added some water and some dry EVO. He drank all the liquid!
Can I let him eat canned tuna or chicken if I rinse it? The salt seems to be the only thing bad I can come up with, but then again, I'm still in the learning process of foods!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top