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SugarGracie

SugarGracie

Member Since 2022
I’m starting a curve chart for the first time.
At 6:30pm BG 177
8:30pm BG 217 gave 1 unit of vetsulin
12:15am BG 34
12:30am BG 29
Feed cat some wet food to bump BG
12:45am BG 37

Is it normal for BG to drop that low?
 
SugarGracie said:
Is it normal for BG to drop that low?
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NO! Anything under 50 (on a human meter) or 68 (on a pet meter) is your "time to act". You need to immediately feed some high carb food like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (the beef is the highest) and under 30 you should rub some Karo/honey/syrup on her gums (or you can add a few drops to the "gravy part" of the food if she'll eat it.

You need to keep testing every 15-20 minutes until she's above 60....then test again in 30 minutes and again an hour later. You want to make sure once she gets up, she stays up.
 
SugarGracie said:
I retested her 20 minutes ago she is at 42. I have Kari syrup should I have her lick that?
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do you have any high carb food? Foods with gravy or sauce are usually higher carb (most of the carbs are in the "gravy" part.)

if you don't have any, then yes, a little more Karo until she's at least above 60 and then follow up with a little food (but don't fill her up in case we need her to eat more later)
 
SugarGracie said:
I’m running out of strips.
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That's one of the big reasons most of us use human meters. If you have a Walmart, you can get a Relion Premier Classic for $9 and 100 strips are only $17.88....and if you run low, you just have to run to the store to get more.

Use as many as you have to until she's safe tonight. Get a meter and strips tomorrow since you won't be able to get strips for the Alpha Trak from anyplace close. They usually have to be ordered online or bought from a vet (who won't be open tomorrow)
 
How many strips do you have left? And how far into the cycle is she? Using a Vetsulin, right? Looked at your earlier post on FB. I’ll be in and see if I can get done other admins here to pop on Chris will be heading off to bed.
 
Just an FYI....in an emergency like this, you should use the 911 prefix when you post. Once you have some help, you can go back and remove it by choosing "no prefix". By removing it after you have help, if you need emergency help again, you can go back and put it back up. That way people don't think it's the same emergency.

You don't need to do this now since @Rebecca & Max (GA) is going to keep an eye on you since it's way past my bedtime but if you ever have her drop this low again and need help, use the 911

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I have 4 more strips. Yes I’m using Vetsulin.

Rebecca & Max (GA) said:
How many strips do you have left? And how far into the cycle is she? Using a Vetsulin, right? Looked at your earlier post on FB. I’ll be in and see if I can get done other admins here to pop on Chris will be heading off to bed.
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Chris & China (GA) said:
Just an FYI....in an emergency like this, you should use the 911 prefix when you post. Once you have some help, you can go back and remove it by choosing "no prefix". By removing it after you have help, if you need emergency help again, you can go back and put it back up. That way people don't think it's the same emergency.

You don't need to do this now since @Rebecca & Max (GA) is going to keep an eye on you since it's way past my bedtime but if you ever have her drop this low again and need help, use the 911

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Thank you
 
Okay, so that’s probably a combo of the syrup/good and hopefully the Vetsulin heading out of her system,

Chris told me to tell you NO insulin tonight. Chris also said she told you she thought that your cat may not be diabetic. After reading a few of your comments on FB, that was my thought too.
 
SugarGracie said:
I will skip her next dose which is 7pm central time. That’s interesting. I wonder why her vet is saying she is or is she now in remission.
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Not sure. Chris commented to me that the fructoseamine test was in a normal range. That’s why she thought your cat wasn’t diabetic.

Before I forget, expect her to be pretty high at 7 pm tonight if you test her. When cats drop that low, the liver may freak out and recognize the danger of low blood sugar. It can dump glycogen into the blood stream to bring glucose up. After the insulin wears off, all that glycogen is still there and it often drives glucose up, That can take 6 cycles or 3 days to even out. So, that simply means don’t jump the gun and give insulin if she’s high.

If you can stay up and test again (strongly suggested) I’ll be here. I’m PST and will be up with you as long as needed.
 
Rebecca & Max (GA) said:
Not sure. Chris commented to me that the fructoseamine test was in a normal range. That’s why she thought your cat wasn’t diabetic.

Before I forget, expect her to be pretty high at 7 pm tonight if you test her. When cats drop that low, the liver may freak out and recognize the danger of low blood sugar. It can dump glycogen into the blood stream yo bring glucose up. After the insulin wears off, all that glycogen is still there and it often drives glucose up, That can take 6 cycle or 3 days to even out. So, that simply means do jump the gun and give insulin if she’s high.

If you can stay up and test again (strongly suggested) I’ll be here. I’m PST and will be up with you as long as needed.
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Thank you! I will test in 10 minutes which would be a half hour after the last one. She is sleeping in her bed right now.
 
SugarGracie said:
Thank you! I will test in 10 minutes which would be a half hour after the last one. She is sleeping in her bed right now.
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I likely had the same problems with sam; he's on a gentler longer acting insulin (which is way better than vetsulin for cats, but that's a discussion for another time). He was likely dropping too low and bouncing, due to an aggressive dose increase from my vet based on fructosamine values. Fructosamine only measures the average blood sugar; so a cat bouncing back and forth between hypo and hyper will average out to be a "normal" fructosamine value.

Sam was at a 67 at his lowest today; just keep giving her high carb wet food, measure her blood sugar, make sure it's increasing before you call it for the night. It's what I did with sam, he's doing much better.

Good news is that with such low blood sugars with such a low dose of vetsulin, she has a pretty good prognosis. Sam went up to 2.5 units of vetsulin, and his fructosamine was still 560, totally unregulated. Cats who need lower doses have a higher chance of entering remission and staying in remission.
 
chuckstables said:
I likely had the same problems with sam; he's on a gentler longer acting insulin (which is way better than vetsulin for cats, but that's a discussion for another time). He was likely dropping too low and bouncing, due to an aggressive dose increase from my vet based on fructosamine values. Fructosamine only measures the average blood sugar; so a cat bouncing back and forth between hypo and hyper will average out to be a "normal" fructosamine value.

Sam was at a 67 at his lowest today; just keep giving her high carb wet food, measure her blood sugar, make sure it's increasing before you call it for the night. It's what I did with sam, he's doing much better.

Good news is that with such low blood sugars with such a low dose of vetsulin, she has a pretty good prognosis. Sam went up to 2.5 units of vetsulin, and his fructosamine was still 560, totally unregulated. Cats who need lower doses have a higher chance of entering remission and staying in remission.
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I just tested her she is holding at 75. I will go to Walmart in the morning to get the other meter and strips.
Which high carb foods is good? I switched her to Fancy Feast Chicken Pate the day she was diagnosed.
 
SugarGracie said:
I just tested her she is holding at 75. I will go to Walmart in the morning to get the other meter and strips.
Which high carb foods is good? I switched her to Fancy Feast Chicken Pate the day she was diagnosed.
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Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is your best choice. You can just pour off the gravy.

Since she held, you can test in another hour, but I’m hoping the Vetsulin is on its way out of her system.
 
SugarGracie said:
I just tested her she is holding at 75. I will go to Walmart in the morning to get the other meter and strips.
Which high carb foods is good? I switched her to Fancy Feast Chicken Pate the day she was diagnosed.
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You generally wouldn't want to feed her a high carb food regularly. It should only be for cases of dangerous hypoglycaemia. You should be feeding her a low carb wet food generally. I use friskies chicken pate, if budget is no concern Purina Proplan DM Pate is one of the lowest carb wet foods you can find. Expensive though; 3.80 CAD a can in my area, and Sam would need about 1.5 cans - 2 cans per day.

Vetsulin is a short acting insulin, it's why she probably dropped so quickly, so it should be working it's way out of her system by now.
 
chuckstables said:
You generally wouldn't want to feed her a high carb food regularly. It should only be for cases of dangerous hypoglycaemia. You should be feeding her a low carb wet food generally. I use friskies chicken pate, if budget is no concern Purina Proplan DM Pate is one of the lowest carb wet foods you can find. Expensive though; 3.80 CAD a can in my area, and Sam would need about 1.5 cans - 2 cans per day.

Vetsulin is a short acting insulin, it's why she probably dropped so quickly, so it should be working it's way out of her system by now.
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I have her on the low carb wet food now. I purchased the Karo syrup after we had the scare with her in June. Thankfully I have that on hand but I will buy the high carb on for instances like this.
 
SugarGracie said:
I have her on the low carb wet food now. I purchased the Karo syrup after we had the scare with her in June. Thankfully I have that on hand but I will buy the high carb on for instances like this.
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Ah, good. Sorry, just wanted to make sure. You’re doing great. Keep up the amazing work.
 
SugarGracie said:
Thank you. For all your help. I do need sleep. I’m bringing her to my room to keep a close ear on her.
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Okay, hope you get some much needed sleep!
Look for the ReliOn Premier meter. $9 for the meter and $9 for test strips! No reason to spend a lot if she’ll be diet controlled and won’t need insulin (still remains to be seen over the next few days)…but the Contour Next ONE is a great meter too.

I’d test her once you are up. Also are using an animal meter? If so, the human meter reads a bit lower. Just didn’t want to you freak a bit if her numbers dropped.
 
Rebecca & Max (GA) said:
Okay, hope you get some much needed sleep!
Look for the ReliOn Premier meter. $9 for the meter and $9 for test strips! No reason to spend a lot if she’ll be diet controlled and won’t need insulin (still remains to be seen over the next few days)…but the Contour Next ONE is a great meter too.

I’d test her once you are up. Also are using an animal meter? If so, the human meter reads a bit lower. Just didn’t want to you freak a bit if her numbers dropped.
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Yes! I’m using the alpha trak 2 currently. She seems to be doing good as she followed me up the stairs ( racing me) and drank some water.

I’ll test her first thing in the morning.

Thank you all for you help.
 
@SugarGracie THANK GOODNESS @Chris & China (GA) and @Rebecca & Max (GA) were here!! I am hoping you and your kitty have started to calm down from such a frightful night!

I want to repeat what Chris/Becky said and confirm you understand - NO insulin tonight.

IF she was ever diabetic (your vet may have totally misread the fructosamine test results. Up to 350 on Fructosamine test is within normal range for a NON diabetic cat. Fructosamine tests are not read the same way that pricking her ear blood glucose tests are read/interpreted).

So, IF she was ever diabetic, my money is on the food change being enough to bring her down to normal numbers and control her diabetes. Usually a food change is done most safely before adding in any insulin, and may take to to a month maybe for you to see good results on its own. Many cats have avoided insulin altogether with a simple food change.

You can monitor her BG today some once you get the ReliOn strips - she will likely be pretty high, even tonight she may be high, but do not worry about that. It takes awhile for the glycogen she released last night to stop the plummet to leave the system.

Hopefully you can get some tests today/tonight and write them on your spreadsheet, so we can start seeing a pattern for how she looks without any insulin at all and after a hypo (remember she will be high today and perhaps into the night). It will be useful for you to indicate on your spreadsheet also when she gets fed (so we can see what food does to her BG). Decisions about whether to give future injections or not will need to be made based on this data (and input from the forum is best), you definitely shouldn't be doing any 1U at night any more. And the data will show us whether she needs any insulin at all period.

Does this all make sense and sound good to you? Questions?
 
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Margaret (and Pearl) said:
@SugarGracie THANK GOODNESS @Chris & China (GA) and @Rebecca & Max (GA) were here!! I am hoping you and your kitty have started to calm down from such a frightful night!

I want to repeat what Chris/Becky said and confirm you understand - NO insulin tonight.

IF she was ever diabetic (your vet may have totally misread the fructosamine test results. Up to 350 on Fructosamine test is within normal range for a NON diabetic cat. Fructosamine tests are not read the same way that pricking her ear blood glucose tests are read/interpreted).

So, IF she was ever diabetic, my money is on the food change being enough to bring her down to normal numbers and control her diabetes. Usually a food change is done most safely before adding in any insulin, and may take to to a month maybe for you to see good results on its own. Many cats have avoided insulin altogether with a simple food change.

You can monitor her BG today some once you get the ReliOn strips - she will likely be pretty high, even tonight she may be high, but do not worry about that. It takes awhile for the glycogen she released last night to stop the plummet to leave the system.

Hopefully you can get some tests today/tonight and write them on your spreadsheet, so we can start seeing a pattern for how she looks without any insulin at all and after a hypo (remember she will be high today and perhaps into the night). It will be useful for you to indicate on your spreadsheet also when she gets fed (so we can see what food does to her BG). Decisions about whether to give future injections or not will need to be made based on this data (and input from the forum is best), you definitely shouldn't be doing any 1U at night any more. And the data will show us whether she needs any insulin at all period.

Does this all make sense and sound good to you? Questions?
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Yes! Make sense. Thank you for all the information.
Gracie has been sleeping, grazing her food and drinking water all morning.
I just did a BG she is 216.
I am writing down all readings and once I get to my computer I will start the spreadsheet. Is there one that works on a mobile device? I rarely use my computer.
I am going to Walmart this afternoon to buy the Reli monitor and strips. Thank you all again.
 
SugarGracie said:
Yes! Make sense. Thank you for all the information.
Gracie has been sleeping, grazing her food and drinking water all morning.
I just did a BG she is 216.
I am writing down all readings and once I get to my computer I will start the spreadsheet. Is there one that works on a mobile device? I rarely use my computer.
I am going to Walmart this afternoon to buy the Reli monitor and strips. Thank you all again.
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If you can get Google sheets, you can use the spreadsheet there! That’s what I did. I had an app for my Contour meter and the Sheets in the same folder on my iPhone. I’d get Max’s BG, then add my notes to the Contour app (food, dose amount), then open sheets and add his test/dose and any other notes I wanted to add (as Margaret suggested, I marked down food and such, even wrote down if he barfed, how he was acting if anything was off, etc. so that anyone looking at Max’s sheet had that info too).
I hope Gracie and you get some cat naps in today if needed, and I hope she’ll be feeling better. Being high sucks, but being low can really hit them hard.

Paws crossed the diet change is all she needs! Testing will still be important, but can drop eventually to just once or a few times a week (spot checks) to even just monthly. My guy reached remission and was diet controlled, but I still tested him monthly or anytime he seemed ‘off’.
 
SugarGracie said:
I am writing down all readings and once I get to my computer I will start the spreadsheet. Is there one that works on a mobile device? I rarely use my computer.
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Yes, the spreadsheet we all use works on mobiles too. It's a little easier to use on a PC but lots of people use their phones so you'll be fine!
 
SugarGracie said:
Yes! Make sense. Thank you for all the information.
Gracie has been sleeping, grazing her food and drinking water all morning.
I just did a BG she is 216.
I am writing down all readings and once I get to my computer I will start the spreadsheet. Is there one that works on a mobile device? I rarely use my computer.
I am going to Walmart this afternoon to buy the Reli monitor and strips. Thank you all again.
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Ok great! I am not surprised by the 216 and I am not worried about it at all. She has been through a rough night and likely this has been happening every night so she has some recovery to do!

When you go to Walmart for ReliOn, you can also get Keto strips to check her urine if she runs high for a little bit, to make sure no ketones. I personally do not believe she will stay high for long and that the FF diet alone will work for her, but to be safe you can get those Keto strips for if you will end up needing them.
 
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@SugarGracie...sometime today, it will help if you'll get your "Signature" set up too. You'll see ours under our comments. It just gives some basic information about your cat so we don't have to keep asking the same questions over and over. In your case we had the benefit of knowing you from the Facebook group.

To do the Signature:

Find your sign on name (usually on above right) Click on it and there's a drop down menu. Click on Signature. A new box will open up. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.

Add info we need to help you like:
  • Caregiver & kitty's name
  • DX: Date of diagnosis
  • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issues or medications (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
Then make sure to click "Save" and you're done!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
@SugarGracie...sometime today, it will help if you'll get your "Signature" set up too. You'll see ours under our comments. It just gives some basic information about your cat so we don't have to keep asking the same questions over and over. In your case we had the benefit of knowing you from the Facebook group.

To do the Signature:

Find your sign on name (usually on above right) Click on it and there's a drop down menu. Click on Signature. A new box will open up. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.

Add info we need to help you like:
  • Caregiver & kitty's name
  • DX: Date of diagnosis
  • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issues or medications (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
Then make sure to click "Save" and you're done!
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Im having issues with the ReliOn meter reading her blood. I keep getting an error code Er4.

Correction: The Reli needs more blood than the Alphatrak.
She ate at 3:30 a little bit at 4:15 her BG is 253.
 
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SugarGracie said:
Im having issues with the ReliOn meter reading her blood. I keep getting an error code Er4.

Correction: The Reli needs more blood than the Alphatrak.
She ate at 3:30 a little bit at 4:15 her BG is 253.
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The ER4 code means you need more blood, or to angle the meter s bit differently. You touch the edge of the strip to the blood and it sucks the blood up. It’s a bit of a learning curve for some people (including me) so you might go through some test strips figuring out your technique.

Remember AT and ReliOn will read a bit differently, don’t worry about that. Glad you got a reading on her!
 
Good job on the Signature but you need to decide which meter you're going to use. By listing both, we won't know which one you used each time.

I'd suggest using the Relion and keeping the AT for a back-up in case the Relion stops working for some reason.

We also need to get your spreadsheet set up. Have you contacted Kim? I'd be happy to set one up for you too. Just send a private message to either of us on Facebook or you can use the message system here by clicking on my name and choosing "start a conversation". (I'm Chris Ronkoski in the FB group in case you hadn't put it together yet)
 
SugarGracie said:
I just uploaded the spreadsheet. Thank you Kim!
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Great, yay! The plan we recommend going forward is for her settle in on only the FF (no insulin) for a few days and see how her body settles down after probably multiple hypos back to back. Then, we can re-evaluate need for insulin and dose after those days and BG tests you are getting while she is off insulin.

Good job with the testing. If you could get 1-2 more per tests per cycle while she is off insulin and we are seeing how she does on the LC food only - that data will come in real handy for evaluating need for insulin later this week. When are you feeding her? Does she get multiple small meals throughout the day? Can you put in your spreadsheet when you give food each day also? That helps us know when BG readings correspond to a possible food spike.

How are you both doing today Lauren? And how does this plan sound to you? Anytime you want to talk you can reach any of us by posting and using the @ before our names and you’ll be able to tag people directly for input.
 
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Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Great, yay! I think the plan we suggest going forward will be for you to let her settle in on only got FF for a few days and see how her body settles down after probably multiple hypos back to back.

Good job with the testing. If you could get maybe 1-2 more per cycle while she is off insulin and we are seeing how she does on the LC food only, that data will come in real handy. When are you feeding her? Does she get multiple small meals throughout the day? Can you put in your spreadsheet when you give food each day also? That helps us know when BG readings correspond to a possible food spike.

How are you both doing today Lauren?
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No naps for me today but Gracie has been sleeping more than normal and just grazing the food.

I normally feed her at 7am and she eats a little when I put the food down and eats more throughout the day. Since she had the scare in June she wants someone near her when she eats now. Dinner time is about 6pm.
now that I have the spreadsheet sheet I’ll add more info.
Thank you.
 
Sunday she ate half the 3oz can for breakfast then ate half the dinner 3oz throughout last night. I feed her a new 3oz can this morning and she only ate half all day.
She is sleeping a little more but is acting normal.
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Can you explain? I thought she was eating well on Sunday? How much is she consuming, like how many ounces or cans?

Aside from the eating, how is her behavior does she seem good or are there worrying signs?
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Sunday she ate half the 3oz can for breakfast then ate half the dinner 3oz throughout last night. I feed her a new 3oz can this morning and she only ate half all day.
She is sleeping a little more but is acting normal. She still follows me everywhere and enjoys her normal cuddles.
 
SugarGracie said:
Sunday she ate half the 3oz can for breakfast then ate half the dinner 3oz throughout last night. I feed her a new 3oz can this morning and she only ate half all day.
She is sleeping a little more but is acting normal. She still follows me everywhere and enjoys her normal cuddles.
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I’m not sure why the appetite may be waning. Sometimes kitties need some extra coaxing, an appetite stimulant would definitely help if nothing else medically is going on. Does she have other medical issues aside from the FD?

@Chris & China (GA) any ideas about the low appetite after hypos?

Could you try to get a couple more BG readings in her AM cycle tomorrow? That will help in thinking through next steps.
 
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